AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 10, 2011 12:35:03 GMT -5
It's difficult for me to admit mistakes as many of you know. But I was wrong, and I'm gonna man up and admit it.
In another thread I made the seemingly outrageous claim that the total average costs of salary and benefits of Wisconsin Milwaukee Public School teachers was $89,500.
This was completely wrong- just false.
The actual figure is up over $100K
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 10, 2011 12:39:57 GMT -5
Yeah, PBP, it is difficult to admit being incorrect. As rarely as I am incorrect, in various areas of my life, I always man up and come clean with I am off base. I admire you...you get karma for being a stand up guy. SF
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Mar 10, 2011 12:42:09 GMT -5
Well then, I'll give you the same argument we get when we complain about CEOs (who can easily get 10X that and get golden parachutes worth millions even when they fail) : go out and become a teacher, then. If you're jealous, well be jealous no more! If you think they're overpaid, I'm sure they'll accept any pay cuts you offer them. See ya in about four years after you get your degree! Problem solved!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 12:45:25 GMT -5
It's difficult for me to admit mistakes as many of you know. But I was wrong, and I'm gonna man up and admit it. In another thread I made the seemingly outrageous claim that the total average costs of salary and benefits of Wisconsin Milwaukee Public School teachers was $89,500. This was completely wrong- just false. The actual figure is up over $100K Is this attention to detail what caused the mulch business to go six feet under?
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 10, 2011 12:46:50 GMT -5
Is this attention to detail what caused the mulch business to go six feet under?
Might have been an influx of illegals.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 12:48:21 GMT -5
Is this attention to detail what caused the mulch business to go six feet under? Might have been an influx of illegals. Or poor management.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Mar 10, 2011 12:48:30 GMT -5
Is this attention to detail what caused the mulch business to go six feet under
i think mulch goes on top ;D
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 10, 2011 12:49:38 GMT -5
Once again, the inability/unwillingness to distinguish between public and private monies is evident here. This seems to be a highly contagious condition on the left, with no apparent cure...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 12:55:03 GMT -5
Is this attention to detail what caused the mulch business to go six feet under i think mulch goes on top ;D Maybe that was the problem.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Mar 10, 2011 13:21:39 GMT -5
Well, I"m right 97% of the time and who cares about the other 4%
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 10, 2011 13:25:59 GMT -5
The WI Superintendent reports a different amount, using the teachers table dpi.wi.gov/lbstat/newasr.htmlBase pay $49,093 Fringe Benefits $25,750 total $74,843 for the state. Milwaukee may be more I didn't look up their county.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 10, 2011 13:31:18 GMT -5
The WI Superintendent reports a different amount, using the teachers table dpi.wi.gov/lbstat/newasr.htmlBase pay $49,093 Fringe Benefits $25,750 total $74,843 for the state. Milwaukee may be more I didn't look up their county. Milwaukee Base Pay $56,095 Fringe Benefits $30,202 total $86,297
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Mar 10, 2011 13:31:21 GMT -5
Well, I"m right 97% of the time and who cares about the other 4% Good one!
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 10, 2011 13:32:39 GMT -5
"....a highly contagious condition on the left, with no apparent cure...." [no apparent clue.] mkitty thinks that classroom teachers and CEO are in the same job class. [I don't really think so, but that's her way of trying to distract from substantive discussion ~ Alinsky [Obama, H Clinton, et al. would be proud.]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 13:35:53 GMT -5
I personally have no problem with teacher making a nice salary and having benefits. But we do need to have a better system for evaluating performance. If that means privatizing all schools or vouchers or removing all mandates and letting schools be run locally... I don't know.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 10, 2011 13:48:17 GMT -5
I posted this link last month. It is from the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction, Statistical Information Center - School Staff and Salary Data, Public School Data. Per school district, it lists the highest and lowest individual teacher's salary, average teacher's salary, average teacher's fringe benefits, average local experience per teacher and average total experience per teacher. Click on the teachers '2010' Excel link and it will open an Excel spreadsheet for your review. dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/newasr.html
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 10, 2011 13:50:45 GMT -5
Sorry ChiTownVenture-I didn't' see your post with the same Wisconsin teacher salary info.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 14:03:38 GMT -5
Paul... you have to stop just repeating people... the average is no where near that.. your first one was high... the statistics show that average is 49K with benefits at 25K... and the average years experience is 15.5 ...
Look at some actual factual data sometime... it helps you to be less wrong...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 10, 2011 14:09:52 GMT -5
Thanks, ChiTown. I did look up McIver Institute, the producer of the YouTube video (I don't normally take YouTube as a news source). The information I found told me all I needed to know. Glad you put up some figures that actually tell us something.
As Archie said, I'd hope teachers would receive good salaries. They are, after all, teaching our children and require the education to do so. All that's costly, too, and most have student loans to pay off when they graduate. Once they're working, however, we need protocols in place to ensure they're doing their jobs and doing them correctly. Union, or no union, the kids have a right to the best we can provide, and that means teachers have to be capable, dedicated, and willing to provide the education the children are there to receive. Parents must also be held accountable in cases where parental neglect is the source of the problem.
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 10, 2011 14:23:31 GMT -5
When the boss runs out of money, he either cuts your compensation or lays you off. Sometimes your choice, sometimes his. The problem with the left is that they appear actually to believe that "money grows on trees" and behave accordingly. I can't take a pay cut! I NEED the money! I WANT it! I DESERVE it! Gimme. Gimme. Gimme. More. More. More. Reality sometimes sucks, particularly if you're stupid.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 14:38:59 GMT -5
I'm sorry safe... maybe you didn't hear where the workers agreed to pay more for health care and more into their pensions? ...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 10, 2011 14:44:29 GMT -5
It's difficult for me to admit mistakes as many of you know. But I was wrong, and I'm gonna man up and admit it. In another thread I made the seemingly outrageous claim that the total average costs of salary and benefits of Wisconsin Milwaukee Public School teachers was $89,500. This was completely wrong- just false. The actual figure is up over $100K Is this attention to detail what caused the mulch business to go six feet under? The landscape materials business is doing just fine- though it's not my business anymore, and maybe that's why...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 10, 2011 14:50:07 GMT -5
The next time a school district generates a $7.5 billion profit- like Exxon Mobil did in the third quarter of 201- then we can pay teachers $100K a year, and I'll give the superintendent $100 million.
Schools don't generate anything. The don't make- the only take. And they don't even do what they're supposed to do with what they take-- 82% of government run monopoly schools are failing. Imagine if 82% of McDonald's franchisees were failing...
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 10, 2011 15:13:58 GMT -5
Sure I did. Problem is that they drag their feet and the budget problem is today, not next year. Truth is that as long as the Unions can leverage the political power, the budget problem will not get better. That's the reason that the solution to the budget problem involves reducing the power of unions to leverage their compensation politically. It is indeed a financial issue. The Unions have overreached and their power must be curtailed if government budgets are to be brought under control. Everyone thinks that everyone should get a "living wage." but the money has to come from somewhere and ordinary citizens not on the government dole have to come up with the money. That's the reality you have difficulty grasping.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 10, 2011 15:26:23 GMT -5
Paul,
the average cost of Salary and benefits for Milwaukee Public Schools is over $100,000/year. The average teacher in Wisconsin earns 49,816 and their benes average $25,325.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 10, 2011 15:46:27 GMT -5
Paul, the average cost of Salary and benefits for Milwaukee Public Schools is over $100,000/year. The average teacher in Wisconsin earns 49,816 and their benes average $25,325.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 10, 2011 16:41:34 GMT -5
Generating tomorrow's leaders, engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants, business entrepreneurs, & other successful, future taxpayers doesn't count?
Personally, I don't think a 50K salary is at all excessive for the average salary for a teacher.
I think it is funny that the argument for allowing banks to use the bailout money to pay ridiculous bonuses was that you have to be willing to pay to get talent & if the people don't get paid their millions, then they will get a different job. The same argument seems to be used with doctors regarding the healthcare bill - people are afraid their pay will go down & many talented doctors will leave the field. Yet, with teachers the overall argument seems to be that they don't do enough, so lets cut their (fairly small) salaries. Do we not want to put up the extra money to attract talent to this field? We say education is failing, but we are unwilling to pay to attract better teachers. Makes no sense to me.
Also, I fail to understand why people don't look more towards the parents. If a kid can't read in 3rd grade, then it wasn't just the school system that failed him, but his parents as well. Teachers can't be expected to work miracles if outside of school kids keep getting the message that learning doesn't matter.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 10, 2011 16:59:34 GMT -5
Speaking from the California perspective, on the whole teacher salaries are not the problem, except when you get to the state university level. However, when you factor in performance versus those salaries, then it becomes a problem, since on average, the quality of the public school system is declining rapidly. This is not solely the fault of teachers, of course, the state departments of education and the school board administrations are probably more responsible than the teachers for the current pathetic state of public education. In California, we have a serious problem with the salaries of Law Enforcement, University Education and Corrections employees. For those who want, see this link where you can search the State employee salary records and see some truly disgraceful things, including highway patrol officers making $300,000+ per year, university athletics coaches making $2,000,000+ per year, and "administrators" (whatever that is), making $500,000+ per year at various public agencies. This is why we're broke... www.sacbee.com/statepay/
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 10, 2011 17:05:48 GMT -5
Too many people confuse what we'd like to have with what we can afford.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 10, 2011 17:12:29 GMT -5
Too many people confuse what we'd like to have with what we can afford. Depends on your priorities. We can afford teachers, we can't afford war. We can afford education, we can't afford international aid. We can afford to pay for quality education, we can't afford to overpay government workers and politicians.
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