I threw down the gauntlet (and threw it at my mom).

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2015 14:10:19 GMT -5 yogiii said:

I think sometimes the only thing to do with these situations is to make a mental file of "Things I won't do when I'm old".

But are you going to remember it when you are old?

[yogiii]

Jun 18, 2015 17:01:41 GMT -5 @empressspunkles said:

Jun 18, 2015 14:10:19 GMT -5 yogiii said:

I think sometimes the only thing to do with these situations is to make a mental file of "Things I won't do when I'm old".

But are you going to remember it when you are old?

Touche!

[HoneyBBQ]

Jun 18, 2015 16:54:32 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

I had an elderly aunt who did this.  She actually gave my DIL a used dog toy for the baby.

When she asked if I needed, I always said, "No, I already have that." If she didn't ask but handed me shopping bags full of stuff, we unpacked it in the thrift store shopping lot.

Lena, I am so sorry that your FIL spoke to you like that and that your DH didn't demand he leave or apologize. I know it is a different culture, but that was cruel.

Hah! I get used dog toys from her (and dog beds, tennis balls, etc) ALL THE TIME for my furry friends!

I also get used (clean, washed) underwear and sports bras. 

Yeah.

[debthaven]

Honey, does your brother have the same problem? What does he do? 

I think the letter is good, albeit a bit long ... but I'm not sure it will change anything. It's worth trying though. 

Is money an issue in her coming to visit? Would buying her a ticket make her come more regularly? 

Another thought, slightly OT ... regardless of the packages, I would really encourage you and your DH to take some time to think about / install / organize storage solutions so that you can all feel happier and more organized in your home. (I'm obviously NOT suggesting this so you have more room for your mom's carp.)

I hope it works. I think you've shown remarkable restraint ... I would have gone nuts a long time ago. It's like a part-time job, dealing with all that stuff! You have to open it, sort it, take it to Goodwill, etc. Do you have any donation bins on your way to work or somewhere you go regularly (ie the supermarket)? With the ones we have here, you'd have to put the stuff in plastic / garbage bags to put it into those donations bins but you wouldn't have to go to Goodwill all the time. 

Good luck. :-)

[Plain Old Petunia]

Jun 18, 2015 15:48:10 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Jun 18, 2015 14:38:04 GMT -5 @rockit said:

I believe in every state now, parents can deny grandparents visitation; so unless there is a an unfit parent situation & court intervention, you ultimately rule.

Is the babysitting/time off worth the problems they induce?

I know absolutely that if I ever sent the G-Kids home with 19 pez dispensers (even between 3 of them) I would be excommunicated & never allowed to see them again!! DD would probably block my phone # and un-friend me on FB too 

My husband said that he can't think of anything that would make him tell his parents they are not allowed in our house.  Even after his father cursed the shit out of me - using words like fucking moron and fucking idiot towards me IN FRONT OF THE KIDS

Ironically, after that, the kids really cooled towards them and my DS2, who was 4.5 at the time told him that he should apologize. 

They don't visit often, so I am not too concern about damage they are doing to the kids, I just couldn't believe that someone could be that rude in someone else's house.

May be I've lived a very sheltered life.

Sorry HoneyBBQ for derailing the thread

If it had been me, I'd have shown him the door.  

[whoisjohngalt]

I've said it before that if I don't care about the person, what he says or does matters none to me.  It's just one of those times.  I would have preferred that my kids didn't hear that type of language, but like I said, even the younger ones realized how inappropriate his behaviour was.

 

[Plain Old Petunia]

It's awesome that your 4.5 year old knew that FIL was out of line.

[NoNamePerson]

Why don't you open the box and see if there is anything you WANT to keep and then donate the rest. Or put the box on the curb for trash day if you have that in your city. I would just put box in trunk and haul to nearest Goodwill center. Of course, I am assuming a lot here as I live in a city that has more charities that will take stuff and/or come pick it up.

So it wouldn't stay in my house a day and then a day only if it was thundering and lightening and I didn't want to get out to haul it off.

You do realize that her behavior isn't going to change so it is your choice on how to deal with it.     Good luck!!

[Shooby]

Jun 19, 2015 7:02:20 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Why don't you open the box and see if there is anything you WANT to keep and then donate the rest. Or put the box on the curb for trash day if you have that in your city. I would just put box in trunk and haul to nearest Goodwill center. Of course, I am assuming a lot here as I live in a city that has more charities that will take stuff and/or come pick it up.

So it wouldn't stay in my house a day and then a day only if it was thundering and lightening and I didn't want to get out to haul it off.

You do realize that her behavior isn't going to change so it is your choice on how to deal with it.     Good luck!!

That is OK to a point. But, then it just becomes too cumbersome to start donating stuff. And, by accepting it, that further encourages the behavior because the real thrill for them is buying it and handing it off to someone with the false notion that somebody is really going to use or enjoy whatever that is. I used to try to do the same with my mom but once she left it at my house, she was happy and she didn't care what happened to the stuff but then I was left to deal with whatever she brought. The only thing that finally changed it was when she would bring something in and I would say 'Thank you for thinking of me Mom but I really do not need another lamp or glass statue , etc" and I would then carry it right back to her car and tell her that I am sure she can find someone else who would really enjoy it.      She finally got the message.

[Shooby]

Jun 18, 2015 13:24:09 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Jun 18, 2015 12:43:14 GMT -5 giramomma said:

 I would have emphasized options of your DD and grandma spending time together..It got one little sentence at the end. Or skype, or talking over the phone..

Do you think the letter will do any good? That your mom will really change her behavior? What happens if/when she doesn't.

That's the issue. My mom can't/won't change. And truth be told, I don't really... deep down... believe that she loves or cares about us. 

I think we are a way for her to feed her shopping addiction, and that's it. She's retired, lives alone, and chooses to shop every day and stay home and watch TV and post on facebook instead of being with her family (my brother lives close to her and has his own daughter, too). She's not really interested in skyping because she doesn't really want to talk to us or learn about what's happening in our lives. She wants to talk about the stuff she sent us and how cheap it was and how great it was she found it. Stuff. Stuff. Stuff. 

  She may not want to Skype.  Not all grandparents do.  Some people don't really want to embrace that technology and that is OK.  As for "stuff", I would say to not be dismissive of all of her stuff.  It is important to her.  You may view it as junk but I would still indulge listening to her prattle on about the wonders of her stuff while visiting.  My mom collect brilliant cut glass. She had some beautiful pieces and she could show intricate details and find the signatures with a magnifying glass, etc.  She had a great knowledge about it.  I do think it is important that we listen as well and allow them to talk about what they enjoy.  My mom is deceased and I would love to hear her chatting happily again about her antiques.

  You might want to try to find some new ways for her to interact with your child that don't revolve around shopping.  For instance, my mom, DD and I found a local workshop where you we did paintings and origami, etc.  We had a some nice days out doing arts and crafts and DD really enjoyed doing that with her grandma.  Sometimes it helps to get them out of their rut.

[NoNamePerson]

Jun 19, 2015 7:08:03 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Jun 19, 2015 7:02:20 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Why don't you open the box and see if there is anything you WANT to keep and then donate the rest. Or put the box on the curb for trash day if you have that in your city. I would just put box in trunk and haul to nearest Goodwill center. Of course, I am assuming a lot here as I live in a city that has more charities that will take stuff and/or come pick it up.

So it wouldn't stay in my house a day and then a day only if it was thundering and lightening and I didn't want to get out to haul it off.

You do realize that her behavior isn't going to change so it is your choice on how to deal with it.     Good luck!!

That is OK to a point. But, then it just becomes too cumbersome to start donating stuff. And, by accepting it, that further encourages the behavior because the real thrill for them is buying it and handing it off to someone with the false notion that somebody is really going to use or enjoy whatever that is. I used to try to do the same with my mom but once she left it at my house, she was happy and she didn't care what happened to the stuff but then I was left to deal with whatever she brought. The only thing that finally changed it was when she would bring something in and I would say 'Thank you for thinking of me Mom but I really do not need another lamp or glass statue , etc" and I would then carry it right back to her car and tell her that I am sure she can find someone else who would really enjoy it.      She finally got the message.

I am under the impression that the OP will never get the message across but I could be wrong. Does she have to sign for all these packages? If not they are probably leaving them at front door. What do you do then? I guess I just look at what makes it easier for me instead of trying to make the other person deal with their problem because in my mind they aren't going to change. I would be more pissed off at having to return the crap than just trashing it. But again I wouldn't let it pile up so it wouldn't be a problem.  
I should say that after a while, I wouldn't even open them. Just get rid of it.

[yogiii]

I have a feeling the just the mere fact that OP isn't "very thankful" for all the crap coming her way is offensive.  Now that email will be offensive.  Sometimes people are just total opposites and you can't do anything because you're stuck with them, they're family.  So either she can continue to further offend by continually making comments about how the stuff isn't necessary and she doesn't want a house full of junk or she can quietly accept the boxes and bring them to Goodwill.  Both options suck but I really don't see a way around this.  If someone else does, I'd LOVE to hear it

[Shooby]

Yes, she might be offended.  But, there are ways to deal with it and not be harsh about it.  I think the letter was very gentle but also made the point. Yes, sometimes we have to upset people when we say what we want.  My point was by making her take it home then SHE has to be the one to deal with it. Then she bought it and it becomes her problem rather than yours to dispose of. That will go much farther to curb the behavior than words.

[NoNamePerson]

Jun 19, 2015 7:29:44 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Yes, she might be offended.  But, there are ways to deal with it and not be harsh about it.  I think the letter was very gentle but also made the point. Yes, sometimes we have to upset people when we say what we want.  My point was by making her take it home then SHE has to be the one to deal with it. Then she bought it and it becomes her problem rather than yours to dispose of. That will go much farther to curb the behavior than words.

I was under the impression that it was coming to her thru the mail. Maybe I misunderstood. Will go back and reread the OP. 

[yogiii]

Shoob, I think your mom was self-aware and understood people have different tastes, ie when you brought up how you didn't need more of her "stuff", she got it and moved on.   Not all are like that.

[Shooby]

Mail it back.

[yogiii]

Maybe it's just me, but mailing it back seems very passive aggressive, even if you've already stated why you don't want the stuff in the first place.  It's like you're starting a small war.

[Shooby]

Well, those are my suggestions so if the OP doesn't want to do that, then don't!

[NoNamePerson]

Mailing it back would involve as much or more time than trashing it. It's still gonna pile up till she can get it to post office etc. I guess I am of the theory that the mother is not going to change so instead of getting all worked up over something I take control of the situation instead of letting it control me.

But maybe the mother will change down the road somewhere - who knows.

[Shooby]

Jun 19, 2015 7:46:00 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Mailing it back would involve as much or more time than trashing it. It's still gonna pile up till she can get it to post office etc. I guess I am of the theory that the mother is not going to change so instead of getting all worked up over something I take control of the situation instead of letting it control me.

But maybe the mother will change down the road somewhere - who knows.

It involves more, but if SHE then has to deal with it, that is the point and the only real way to possibly change the behavior. 

[happyhoix]

Jun 19, 2015 7:29:44 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Yes, she might be offended.  But, there are ways to deal with it and not be harsh about it.  I think the letter was very gentle but also made the point. Yes, sometimes we have to upset people when we say what we want.  My point was by making her take it home then SHE has to be the one to deal with it. Then she bought it and it becomes her problem rather than yours to dispose of. That will go much farther to curb the behavior than words.

We had this issue with my mom, who was a hoarder and believed every single thing she owned was a very very valuable family heirloom, right down to the last warped Tupperware container.

After she decided she needed to downsize from a four bedroom house to a 1 bedroom condo, she agreed she needed to get of some of her stuff, but psychologically, she could not bear to donate it to Goodwill, because she was certain everything was priceless. After endlessly asking her to take boxes to Goodwill, and having endless arguments where she tried to coax us to take her plastic chip bowl shaped like a football or the ten plastic recycled ice cream containers she used to store leftovers, the siblings decided amongst ourselves that, when we visited her, we would collect whatever treasurers she felt she could stand to give away, assure her we were taking them to our homes, but then drop them off at Goodwill on the way out of town. If we just left the crap there, it would never leave the house. So yes, it was technically lying, but it was the only way to help her downsize her hoard while avoiding endless arguments.

She couldn't even discard any unused food from her freezer and fridge when she moved. We loaded up a couple big boxes of opened, partly used freezer food, mystery stuff wrapped in foil, partly eaten ice cream with freezer burn, etc, and she insisted my DH take it to the food bank. Food banks can't accepted open food, so DH dropped them into a dumpster, but we told her it found a happy home at the food bank.

This buying and hoarding this is a disease. If you refuse to take their stuff, it ends up piling up I their houses, and eventually that becomes your problem when you have to clean it out. I would just keep taking this stuff to the Goodwill, myself. No point arguing with someone with a MI who doesn't realize they have a MI.

[thyme4change]

Jun 19, 2015 7:46:00 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Mailing it back would involve as much or more time than trashing it. It's still gonna pile up till she can get it to post office etc. I guess I am of the theory that the mother is not going to change so instead of getting all worked up over something I take control of the situation instead of letting it control me.

But maybe the mother will change down the road somewhere - who knows.

If every package the mom sends gets returned to her - she will stop eventually.  So, correct that in the short run it is the same or more work - but in the long run, it might be less work.  Solving a problem usually takes more time than ignoring it.

[thyme4change]

Jun 18, 2015 18:30:30 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I've said it before that if I don't care about the person, what he says or does matters none to me.  It's just one of those times.  I would have preferred that my kids didn't hear that type of language, but like I said, even the younger ones realized how inappropriate his behaviour was.

 

Sometimes it is great when people like this show themselves to people.  That way you and your kids can have an actual conversation - even if you just answer "That is the way he is, and I do what I can to keep myself emotionally safe from it."  It gives them a chance to realize that there are some real jerks out there, but also keeps that person from manipulating them.  The worst are people who are very destructive, but it is hard to see it behind their smooth, friendly exterior.  

[Shooby]

Jun 19, 2015 7:37:19 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Shoob, I think your mom was self-aware and understood people have different tastes, ie when you brought up how you didn't need more of her "stuff", she got it and moved on.   Not all are like that.

No, my mom wasn't self aware until I made her aware. But, OK, just give up then rather than at least trying?

[yogiii]

Jun 19, 2015 8:13:13 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Jun 19, 2015 7:37:19 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Shoob, I think your mom was self-aware and understood people have different tastes, ie when you brought up how you didn't need more of her "stuff", she got it and moved on.   Not all are like that.

No, my mom wasn't self aware until I made her aware. But, OK, just give up then rather than at least trying?

How is she giving up?  The email says everything, doesn't mean the Mom will change.  That's all I'm saying.  It might work for some, not for others.

[thyme4change]

Jun 19, 2015 8:28:41 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Jun 19, 2015 8:13:13 GMT -5 Shooby said:

No, my mom wasn't self aware until I made her aware. But, OK, just give up then rather than at least trying?

How is she giving up?  The email says everything, doesn't mean the Mom will change.  That's all I'm saying.  It might work for some, not for others.

If sending back the items might work for some people - lets say 40% of the people will stop sending stuff if they get 8-15 packages in a row returned to them - is it worth trying?  If after a dozen packages, she is showing no signs of change, then them.

I am not sure why we are debating this - Shooby has made a suggestion that she agrees may or may not work.  There is a sure-fire way to find out if it does or not, but that is up to Honey to decide.  The insistence that it might not work, so why bother seems a little unnecessarily negative.  Yogiii - is everything okay with you?  I suspect your attitude has more to do with something going on in your life than it does with Shooby's suggestion.  You seem a little 'glass-half-empty' lately.  

[Shooby]

  Thank you. And, my point is that I have also dealt with this as well and I am talking about what worked for me. So, YMMV.

[Deleted]

Jun 19, 2015 7:15:26 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Jun 18, 2015 13:24:09 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

That's the issue. My mom can't/won't change. And truth be told, I don't really... deep down... believe that she loves or cares about us. 

I think we are a way for her to feed her shopping addiction, and that's it. She's retired, lives alone, and chooses to shop every day and stay home and watch TV and post on facebook instead of being with her family (my brother lives close to her and has his own daughter, too). She's not really interested in skyping because she doesn't really want to talk to us or learn about what's happening in our lives. She wants to talk about the stuff she sent us and how cheap it was and how great it was she found it. Stuff. Stuff. Stuff. 

  She may not want to Skype.  Not all grandparents do.  Some people don't really want to embrace that technology and that is OK.  As for "stuff", I would say to not be dismissive of all of her stuff.  It is important to her.  You may view it as junk but I would still indulge listening to her prattle on about the wonders of her stuff while visiting.  My mom collect brilliant cut glass. She had some beautiful pieces and she could show intricate details and find the signatures with a magnifying glass, etc.  She had a great knowledge about it.  I do think it is important that we listen as well and allow them to talk about what they enjoy.  My mom is deceased and I would love to hear her chatting happily again about her antiques.

  You might want to try to find some new ways for her to interact with your child that don't revolve around shopping.  For instance, my mom, DD and I found a local workshop where you we did paintings and origami, etc.  We had a some nice days out doing arts and crafts and DD really enjoyed doing that with her grandma.  Sometimes it helps to get them out of their rut.

I think indulging listening to someone prattle on about the wonderful thing they'[re interested in like brilliant cut glass is different than the wonderful thing being shopping itself. But I do understand how after losing a loved one, you'd love to be able to listen to them ramble away about anything at all.

I have a friend that sounds similar to HoneyBBQ's Mom in that she loves shopping just to shop. She buys new items literally for pennies and goes out almost every day looking for bargains.The only difference is that she doesn't try to force her finds on people that don't want it. She resells a lot of it or gives it away to people that can and will actually use it. Or to the Goodwill when the volume gets completely out of control. She has a room in her house full of her finds. She does come out ahead by selling things that she paid pennies for, but it's not about the money, it's about the shopping. She uses that money to just keep shopping. And she loves to go on and on about her deals, shows me pictures on her phone of stuff she's bought.... blah blah blah.

What struck me is that HoneyBBQ said that deep down, she doesn't even really feel like her mother loves her. To me, that seems like the packages aren't about showing Honey and her family that she loves them and was thinking about them, it's using them as an excuse for the shopping. Even if it is coming from love, the sheer volume makes none of it really special or meaningful because there's so much.

[NoNamePerson]

Maybe the mom will change.

Banging my head against a brick wall would drive me bat shit crazy - trying to change someone else.

Choosing to change my reaction to their actions would take me about 10 minutes and save my sanity.

But then again I have a "piss on it" personality so I am quick to make decisions based on what is best for me. And changing mom would be the least of my problems    

[emma1420]

Jun 19, 2015 8:39:33 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jun 19, 2015 7:15:26 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  She may not want to Skype.  Not all grandparents do.  Some people don't really want to embrace that technology and that is OK.  As for "stuff", I would say to not be dismissive of all of her stuff.  It is important to her.  You may view it as junk but I would still indulge listening to her prattle on about the wonders of her stuff while visiting.  My mom collect brilliant cut glass. She had some beautiful pieces and she could show intricate details and find the signatures with a magnifying glass, etc.  She had a great knowledge about it.  I do think it is important that we listen as well and allow them to talk about what they enjoy.  My mom is deceased and I would love to hear her chatting happily again about her antiques.

  You might want to try to find some new ways for her to interact with your child that don't revolve around shopping.  For instance, my mom, DD and I found a local workshop where you we did paintings and origami, etc.  We had a some nice days out doing arts and crafts and DD really enjoyed doing that with her grandma.  Sometimes it helps to get them out of their rut.

I think indulging listening to someone prattle on about the wonderful thing they'[re interested in like brilliant cut glass is different than the wonderful thing being shopping itself. But I do understand how after losing a loved one, you'd love to be able to listen to them ramble away about anything at all.

I have a friend that sounds similar to HoneyBBQ's Mom in that she loves shopping just to shop. She buys new items literally for pennies and goes out almost every day looking for bargains.The only difference is that she doesn't try to force her finds on people that don't want it. She resells a lot of it or gives it away to people that can and will actually use it. Or to the Goodwill when the volume gets completely out of control. She has a room in her house full of her finds. She does come out ahead by selling things that she paid pennies for, but it's not about the money, it's about the shopping. She uses that money to just keep shopping. And she loves to go on and on about her deals, shows me pictures on her phone of stuff she's bought.... blah blah blah.

What struck me is that HoneyBBQ said that deep down, she doesn't even really feel like her mother loves her. To me, that seems like the packages aren't about showing Honey and her family that she loves them and was thinking about them, it's using them as an excuse for the shopping. Even if it is coming from love, the sheer volume makes none of it really special or meaningful because there's so much.

That struck me as well.  Especially, when it's clear that HoneyBBQ's mother isn't working to have a relationship with her granddaughter.  It's about buying her stuff.   I get that as my biological mother operates in a very similar fashion.   In many ways those people who operate like this do so because either it's a good excuse to continue their shopping addiction, and/or because they feel that the buying of stuff obligates the recipients of the gifts to have a relationship on their terms.     

Stuff isn't love.  I though HoneyBBQ's letter was very nice.   I'm way harsher.  I've told people I don't want their crap because I've got more than enough of my own.