reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 9, 2011 21:39:33 GMT -5
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 9, 2011 21:48:32 GMT -5
Whoop ti doo! I wonder if the state will be paying for the vacation those 14 Democrats have been on. D'ya suppose they'll find a way to call it aw-fiishul bidness?
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 9, 2011 22:00:01 GMT -5
To me it makes the Democrats look even worse for running away. If they knew about the conditions for the forum, they should have been smart enough to realize that running would only make them look bad.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 9, 2011 22:35:08 GMT -5
To about 25%, the dittoheads.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 9, 2011 23:14:21 GMT -5
Why did it take the Republicans that long how to out manuever the Democrats? And the question is how did not the Democrats not know about the loophole, or did they think the Republicans would never figure it out? Now I hope we can do the same thing in Indiana for our fellow Democratic runaways in Urbana. And, will the Democratic rabble become violent tomorrow in Madison? Teachers with protest signs can be dangerous.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 23:19:41 GMT -5
Actually, the Dems were being threatened by their base if they returned... this way they maintain their base... they never gave in...
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 9, 2011 23:41:20 GMT -5
Actually, the Dems were being threatened by their base if they returned... this way they maintain their base... they never gave in... They maintain their base? Despite what many of the Democratic faithful are failing to realize, there is a serious defection to the "middle political base" by millions of supposed Democrats. They will be voting for Republican candidates next year, whether they 100% want to or not, as they now realize, the Democratic Party has drifted so far to the left, they can no longer stay with them. Add the Independents who voted Democratic in 2008, who have seen the light, and they will turn to the Republicans in 2012. Wisconsin citizens may not be favoring their Governor as much as they did a month ago, but they know in their hearts, he is doing the right thing for the state.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 23:46:02 GMT -5
Ok... i guess we'll see
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 10, 2011 1:11:01 GMT -5
...lots of independents out here... and we vote... so, yeah... we'll see how it swings...
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 10, 2011 1:19:05 GMT -5
I just caught a replay of Greta. She had a Wisconsin Republican Senator on. He said they left the capitol about 15 minutes after the vote with police escort because there was a mob outside that was threatening the safety of the Republican Senators. He said it was not safe for them to be in Madison tonight. Someone else also said the Democrats are racing back to Madison in hopes they can find some way to undo the whole thing. Someone also alluded to the absent senators having their bills paid by the unions.
Looks to me like the thuggery and collusion based marriage between the Democrats and the unions can't be hidden on this one.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 10, 2011 1:34:13 GMT -5
...I'd agree with the fact that if unions pick up the tabs for absentee senators, there will be hail to pay...
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Mar 10, 2011 8:00:44 GMT -5
Henry these despots should realize this isn't Egypt and our angry mobs could be armed. Should be interesting. I understand the Dems have recall petitions on 8 of the Republicans. They have to wait a year to start one for Walker.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 10, 2011 8:20:38 GMT -5
And so it ends with a bang. A small victory for the taxpayers of WI.
They were probably trying to allow the dem senators to get back to work and allow the legislative process to work the proper way. Present a bill, debate the bill and vote on the bill (yeah, I know...way over-simplified). I'd imagine that they decided they gave the missing senators enough time and worked around them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 9:01:35 GMT -5
Laws and Sausage, right?
I can't beleive that this is how our laws are written. Weird rules, people leaving the state, semantics of what things are called.
I think I'd rather not know.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 10, 2011 9:02:50 GMT -5
Wasn't there also some question as to whether their procedure was legal? One legislator was recorded as loudly stating that the process was flawed and illegal during the proceeding. I don't know anything about the WI constitution though. Nor do I, so I guess we'll have to wait and see. Apparently the quorum requirement was only required for budget items. The senators simply removed the collective bargaining portion from the budget bill and passed it separate. I bet the missing senators get their collective backsides home in record time though.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 10, 2011 9:09:03 GMT -5
This maneuver reminds me of the political chicanery pulled by the state elected officials(legislators/senate) in the last five or so years, where they changed the law that covered the appointment of US Senator by the governor of the state. The dem reps changed the law twice, when US senate appointments became necessary.
Political theater.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Mar 10, 2011 9:18:11 GMT -5
Is it possible there were other motives involved in creating this mess?----"In an interview with Fox News’ Megyn Kelly moments ago, State Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-WI), one of Walker’s closest allies in the legislature, confirmed the true political motive of Walker’s anti-union push. Fitzgerald explained that “this battle” is about eliminating unions so that “the money is not there” for the labor movement. Specifically, he said that the destruction of unions will make it “much more difficult” for President Obama to win reelection in Wisconsin:
FITZGERALD: Well if they flip the state senate, which is obviously their goal with eight recalls going on right now, they can take control of the labor unions. If we win this battle, and the money is not there under the auspices of the unions, certainly what you’re going to find is President Obama is going to have a much difficult, much more difficult time getting elected and winning the state of Wisconsin."
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 10, 2011 9:21:21 GMT -5
Seems to me there is an egregious conflict of interest and malfeasance here. We got unions providing billions in campaign donations to political re-election efforts, and those politicians providing goodies to public sector unions. All at the expense of state taxpayers.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Mar 10, 2011 9:24:30 GMT -5
Outlaw unions and industry lobbyists,since they do the same? And what does that have to do with hurting Obama's reelection by attacking unions?
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Mar 10, 2011 9:29:55 GMT -5
I still don't like the process but something inside me enjoys watching these Fleebaggers wiggle since this process seems very similar to the way Reed and Pelosi operated for the last two years. I do however support the principles in this bill. A union of public employees is equal to organized crime.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Mar 10, 2011 9:35:31 GMT -5
I respect your opinion,but every poll I have seen shows most people don't share it,both nationwide and in Wisconsin.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Mar 10, 2011 9:41:28 GMT -5
Even that sounds familiar. The majority of people didn't and still don't support Obamacare and they still forced it through.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Mar 10, 2011 10:13:31 GMT -5
Why did it take the Republicans that long how to out manuever the Democrats? And the question is how did not the Democrats not know about the loophole, or did they think the Republicans would never figure it out? Now I hope we can do the same thing in Indiana for our fellow Democratic runaways in Urbana. And, will the Democratic rabble become violent tomorrow in Madison? Teachers with protest signs can be dangerous. Both sides have known the reps could do this...they even mentioned it about 2 weeks ago as a means to pass it without the Dems. I think the Reps were trying to pass it with the rest of the bill by waiting to see if the Dems would return. But its hard to wait out a kid in a tantrum
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 10, 2011 10:14:41 GMT -5
I believe I said it was inevitable.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Mar 10, 2011 10:16:35 GMT -5
Wasn't there also some question as to whether their procedure was legal? One legislator was recorded as loudly stating that the process was flawed and illegal during the proceding. I don't know anything about the WI constitution though. Legal or not, if it causes the Dems to return then they can pass it the normal way if it gets overturned
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 10, 2011 10:27:17 GMT -5
Both sides have been disningenuous throughout this process. It's not about worker's rights, and it's not about the budget. This is a battle over political power- and both sides are fighting over the SAME thing, but not saying so.
This is about the Democratic Party laundering tax payer dollars through the public sector unions. They get campaign cash from unions who get it from "dues" paid by public employees, whose salaries are paid by the taxpayers. The more public sector workers, and the more they get paid-- the more money is available for Demcrat campaigns from unions.
This fight should have been over this issue. I think Walker would be polling higher right now, and would easily have gained and kept the moral high ground if he simply told the truth: we're going to make sure that taxpayer dollars aren't confiscated by a political party via public employee unions.
To the extent that it's about worker's rights, it's about the rights of those who pay their salaries. It's about taxpayer's rights. And it's about the rights of public employees who despise everything their union and the Democratic Party stand for, and who are sick and tired of paying dues essentially to the Democratic Party.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Mar 10, 2011 10:29:11 GMT -5
The whole thing should have been done at the barganing table.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Mar 10, 2011 11:11:01 GMT -5
It's easier to make a case that public workers should not be at a bargaining table. If they don't think their compensation is adequate they should go get a job in the private sector and really show their boss who's in charge.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Mar 10, 2011 11:12:27 GMT -5
the "whole thing" could not be accomplished at the table..----"In an interview with Fox News’ Megyn Kelly moments ago, State Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-WI), one of Walker’s closest allies in the legislature, confirmed the true political motive of Walker’s anti-union push. Fitzgerald explained that “this battle” is about eliminating unions so that “the money is not there” for the labor movement. Specifically, he said that the destruction of unions will make it “much more difficult” for President Obama to win reelection in Wisconsin: FITZGERALD: Well if they flip the state senate, which is obviously their goal with eight recalls going on right now, they can take control of the labor unions. If we win this battle, and the money is not there under the auspices of the unions, certainly what you’re going to find is President Obama is going to have a much difficult, much more difficult time getting elected and winning the state of Wisconsin."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 11:19:22 GMT -5
I have to post before reading the thread. I'm glad the pubs went ahead. What should they have done-- waited months and months for those Dems to come home? They did the right thing. Now let the whiners in hiding try to justify their whining and hiding. Bring it on, whiners.
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