|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 9, 2011 8:13:26 GMT -5
Congress holds hundreds of hearings each year — and most generate more yawns than fireworks. But the plan to hold hearings on the danger posed by radical Islam in the United States has inspired protest, counterprotest, debate, editorials, petitions and even pray-ins, before the first witness takes the stand. The goal of the hearings, the first of which is being held Thursday, is "to establish and show the American people that there is a real threat of al-Qaida recruiting and of homegrown terrorists being self-radicalized within the Muslim community," according to Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., the new chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. He also charges that Muslim Americans are not doing enough to discourage extremists in their midst. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41958327/ns/us_news-security
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Mar 9, 2011 8:19:21 GMT -5
Let those who wish to object, object. Here, we have the freedom to do that, thankfully. Because someone(s) objects is no reason to forego a hearing. It's happened before, and will happen again. There will always be some who will object to just about anything.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 9, 2011 8:21:14 GMT -5
But many Muslims, as well as leaders of other religious and legal advocates, reject the premise of the discussion — that Islam can be singled out as more prone to engender radicalization and violent extremism than other religions. "By framing his hearings as an investigation of the American Muslim community, the implication is that we should be suspicious of our Muslim neighbors, co-workers or classmates solely on the basis of their religion," Rep. Michael Honda, D-Calif., wrote in a Feb. 28 op-ed piece in the San Francisco Chronicle. He compared the move to the roundup of Japanese Americans during World War II that led to the three-year internment of his own family. Many civil rights groups also say the hearings set a disturbing precedent. "Congress should not be focused on First Amendment-protected beliefs and activities," said Farhana Khera, executive director of the San Francisco-based Muslim Advocates group. "To the extent that you have Congress exploring violent extremism, it should be focused on criminal behavior. … What faith somebody practices or whatever variant someone practices would not be the proper scope for congressional review www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41958327/ns/us_news-security
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 9, 2011 8:22:46 GMT -5
He compared the move to the roundup of Japanese Americans during World War II that led to the three-year internment of his own family. Many civil rights groups also say the hearings set a disturbing precedent. " On Sunday, the White House dispatched National Security Adviser Denis McDonough to a Washington-area mosque known for its cooperation with the FBI and its rejection of terrorism. "Being religious is never un-American. Being religious is quintessentially American," McDonough said. But as the hearings drew near, the volume surrounding them only seemed to build. In New York's Times Square on Sunday and in front of King’s office, hundreds of people gathered to speak out against the hearing, criticizing it as xenophobic and divisive. "Peter King, we are onto your game," said one protester. "Using fear and intolerance and targeting an entire community does not make any of us any safer." Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=politics&thread=4525&page=1#ixzz1G6mSNkR3Representative Honda who is a Japanese/American keeps using this comparison each and every time he thinks Muslims are being singled out because of the attacks by radical muslims in this country. In WW2 we did not see any Japanese/American try to bomb our cities or take down our airplanes. As a matter of fact many or the young Japanese/Americans in the internment camps enlisted in the US Army and fought bravely in Europe.. So I take exception to Mr Honda's comparisons of Japanese/Americans in WW2 and Muslims in our War against Muslim Terrorists....
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Mar 9, 2011 8:24:57 GMT -5
Khera does have a point, in that any hearing professing to look into extremism should take into account all kinds of extremism. If we're only looking at one source, we're missing some things we should make ourselves aware of. Still, if the congress wishes to hold the hearing, it will do so despite objections. This isn't the first objection that's ever been put forth, and it won't be the last.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 9, 2011 8:32:23 GMT -5
Muslim-American Terrorism Since 9/11: An Accounting Of the 20 Muslim-American terrorist suspects of 2010, five actually carried out their plots: Faisal Shahzad attempted to detonate a carbomb in New York City, Anwar al-Awlaki incited Shahzad and other terrorists, Sharif Mobley and Samir Khan appear to have joined al-Qa’ida in Yemen, and Farah Mohamed Beledi appears to have joined al-Shabaab in Somalia. (The 2010 cases are listed in Figure 3 in the order that they became public.) Another two individuals were arrested in the late stages of their plot, after weapons or explosives had been gathered: Zarein Ahmedzay and Adis Medunjanin, who were charged with participation in Najibullah Zazi’s plot to plant bombs in the New York City subway system. The other 13 suspects came to the attention of U.S. government authorities at an early stage of their plots, before weapons or explosives had been obtained. Information on plot disruption is drawn from criminal complaints and news coverage of trial testimony sanford.duke.edu/centers/tcths/about/documents/Kurzman_Muslim-American_Terrorism_Since_911_An_Accounting.pdf
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Mar 9, 2011 9:03:56 GMT -5
Let those who wish to object, object. Here, we have the freedom to do that, thankfully. Because someone(s) objects is no reason to forego a hearing. It's happened before, and will happen again. There will always be some who will object to just about anything. Being Catholic (not so much active, but catholic nonetheless) I wouldn't have a problem with attempts to weed out any radicals among Catholics. Why would I? If they did hold hearings and people protested, I'd hope they'd start their investigations with them folks. As the old saying goes, It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. You'd hope every group (whether political, religious, social, whatever...) would shun the radicals of the group.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Mar 9, 2011 9:26:26 GMT -5
Having lived abroad in Islamic countries, I've got a number of Muslim friends. Amongst those people, and the people I knew when we lived abroad, the vast majority would, indeed, shun anyone who advocated hatred. I saw it in action.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 9, 2011 11:04:29 GMT -5
This question seems to be getting a lot of press today:
Is Rep. King unfairly singling out the Muslim-American community with a hearing about homegrown terrorism?
And it appears to be split along party lines...Dems are yelling and screaming such ole phrases as "McCarthyism", Xenophobia, Fear Monger, Hate Speech, Anti-Muslim, Unconstitutional, and etc..
And repubs seem to be sitting back watching all of those whose hair is on fire because a Republican Congressman from New York wants to hold hearings to determine if we have a threat in this country with Radical Islam or the radicalization of Islam... Whatever happened to this conversation that the Muslim Imam promised if he got permission to build his mosque near ground zero in NYC??
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 9, 2011 11:10:28 GMT -5
As the old saying goes, It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. You'd hope every group (whether political, religious, social, whatever...) would shun the radicals of the group. Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=politics&thread=4525&page=1#ixzz1G7SfVksIIn the Detroit Muslim Communities there are so called moderate Muslims who are afraid to speak out about the radical Muslims and refuse to allow entry by non Muslims in their mosques to listen to the Imams who are preaching Sharia Law or other radical teachings..... The Muslim Community had been given opportunities after 9/11 to have a dialog on this subject but so far most of their leaders are silent out of fear, possibly??
|
|
jkapp
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 12:05:08 GMT -5
Posts: 5,416
|
Post by jkapp on Mar 9, 2011 11:13:47 GMT -5
>>"Congress should not be focused on First Amendment-protected beliefs and activities," said Farhana Khera, executive director of the San Francisco-based Muslim Advocates group. "To the extent that you have Congress exploring violent extremism, it should be focused on criminal behavior. … What faith somebody practices or whatever variant someone practices would not be the proper scope for congressional review<<
The Muslim extremists are the ones using religion and bringing it into their actions...this hearing is just noting that fact.
And I wish the Muslim community was as outspoken against the terrorism brought on by these extremists of their shared religion...
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 9, 2011 11:17:08 GMT -5
Why do the Pro Muslims want to shun these stats about Muslims attacking us?? And again where has the Obama Administration or the National Security Advisor been on this subject??
So Congressman King got tired after two years of nothing being done and decided to hold hearings on this subject and is being shellacked by the Muslims, Liberals, and Liberal Media...
There were 47 such plots in 2009, twice the number as the year before. But after that spike, the number fell again to 20 in 2010, within the range it had been in for most of the last decade.
|
|
|
Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Mar 9, 2011 11:38:53 GMT -5
"Today’s terrorists do not share a particular ethnic, educational or socioeconomic background. Recently, when state law enforcement agencies were asked to identify terror groups in their states, Muslim extremist groups ranked 11th on a list of 18. "Law enforcement agencies identified neo-Nazis, environmental extremists and anti-tax groups as more prevalent than Muslim terrorist organizations. The sophisticated explosive device found along a parade route in Washington on Martin Luther King Jr. Day, an act of domestic terrorism clearly motivated by racist ideology, should prove that other groups are just as willing and able to carry out horrific attacks on Americans." Read more: www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/48239.html#ixzz1G7WwFrsDSo where's the Congressional hearings for the top ten? Just substitute "Catholic" with "Tea Party Member" and let the bawwwwwwing begin! No, you start with the people in the radical organizations. If the ACLU protested, do you think you're going to get anywhere? And if you're a terrorist, are you going to risk being seen in protests and be made a target?
|
|
safeharbor37
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 23:18:19 GMT -5
Posts: 1,290
|
Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 9, 2011 12:10:39 GMT -5
When the House Committee on Homeland Security holds hearings it is probably going to relate to islamist extremists since the Department of Homeland Security was established in the wake of 9/11 which was perpetrated by islamist extremists.
Law enforcement agencies are responsible for enforcing laws and keeping the peace in all areas including traffic violations, domestic disputes, and armed robberies as well as everyday homicides. They do not focus on international terrorism [or illegal immigration, etc.]. There is a difference between holding hearings and persecuting some individual or group although it seems that some have difficulty drawing that distinction.
|
|
|
Post by ed1066 on Mar 9, 2011 12:15:29 GMT -5
How did they determine the motive for this plot? Was there a note with the bomb? Seems like it could easily have been just an opportunity to hit a place where a lot of people would be gathered (a known tactic used by Islamic extremist terrorists)...
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 9, 2011 12:17:56 GMT -5
This is really disappointing. I expect better of peaceful muslims. They should be the first people eager to weed out the radical muslims from within their ranks because they risk being targeted if these islamists are successful. They came from islamist hell holes in many cases, and should not want to see that nonsense happen here.
Hands down, categorically, the people protesting are islamist sympathizers and should be watched carefully. They are giving good muslims a bad name, and that should greatly concern peaceful muslims with no islamist sympathies.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Mar 9, 2011 12:22:41 GMT -5
How did they determine the motive for this plot? Was there a note with the bomb? Seems like it could easily have been just an opportunity to hit a place where a lot of people would be gathered (a known tactic used by Islamic extremist terrorists)... Errmmm, ed? Causing a disruption (whether a bomb, or whatever) where a lot of people will be gathered is a known tactic used by ANY group of extremist terrorists.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 9, 2011 12:22:52 GMT -5
Islamic radicals have the body-count going for them. I'm not denying the murders committed each year by other hate groups, but in terms of a sustained, consistent, world-wide threat-- ain't nobody got nothin' on islamic radicals. I don't fear Neo-NAZIs detonating a dirty bomb in the port of Miami, or lighting of a small nuke over the Vegas strip. That, if it happened, would almost certainly be the work of islamists.
Islamists are CLEARLY far and away the greater threat.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Mar 9, 2011 12:23:46 GMT -5
This is really disappointing. I expect better of peaceful muslims. They should be the first people eager to weed out the radical muslims from within their ranks because they risk being targeted if these islamists are successful. They came from islamist hell holes in many cases, and should not want to see that nonsense happen here. Hands down, categorically, the people protesting are islamist sympathizers and should be watched carefully. They are giving good muslims a bad name, and that should greatly concern peaceful muslims with no islamist sympathies. They do greatly concern peaceful Muslims. How long did you say you'd spent amongst these people, paul?
|
|
|
Post by ed1066 on Mar 9, 2011 12:27:07 GMT -5
Right, so how did they know it was a domestic, race-based attack? That seems like a huge leap in logic to get to that conclusion. I hope all law enforcement work by that agency isn't this sloppy...
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 9, 2011 12:32:04 GMT -5
I've spent plenty of time with muslims- even muslims in a muslim country. I'm meeting a muslim today at 4:00 p.m.
They mostly agree with me. They support the hearings, and have said flat out that the protesters are islamist and far-left propaganda.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 9, 2011 12:34:46 GMT -5
The sooner the muslims put down the radicals in their ranks, the better their lives are going to be. Western culture is superior to all other cultures because it's the one culture that supports peaceful people of any faith, race, nationality.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Mar 9, 2011 12:40:04 GMT -5
I've spent plenty of time with muslims- even muslims in a muslim country. I'm meeting a muslim today at 4:00 p.m. They mostly agree with me. They support the hearings, and have said flat out that the protesters are islamist and far-left propaganda. How would you define "plenty of time"? The fact that the Muslims you know agree that the hearings should be held should tell you most Muslims are no more fond of the terrorists than you, or I are. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful people, which is exactly what I've said.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 9, 2011 13:32:38 GMT -5
When have I ever said that the vast majority of muslims are NOT peaceful? Clearly with a billion muslims in the world (and growing) things would be a tad more chaotic if they weren't peaceful.
I am lamenting the fact that they are increasingly represented by a their violent fringe and their leftist allies.
|
|
Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
Posts: 17,345
Location: NEPA
|
Post by Bluerobin on Mar 9, 2011 13:35:12 GMT -5
McCarthyism lives!!!
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 9, 2011 13:39:07 GMT -5
My whole point concerning this thread is this: we need to cut the crap. Stop pretending that Peter King is racist, stop pretending there's no radical islamist threat, stop pretending that the hearings aren't long over due and desperately needed, and stop pretending that these "muslim" protesters are representative of peaceful, mainstream muslims 'outraged' over the hearings and just admit that this is terrorist sypathizers in the muslim community and their far left allies distracting from the issue in order to continue to aid and abet their terrorist allies.
It's no different than in the 1980's when they'd pass the hat for $$$ in the Irish pubs in Chicago. We all know where that money went-- it went to murder people. We know what the parades, celebrations, and protests were all about here. The only difference is that the Irish were smart enough not to bring the murder here to our shores, or to target the US.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 9, 2011 13:39:43 GMT -5
We should have hearings to expose McCarthyism!!!!
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Mar 9, 2011 13:45:32 GMT -5
When have I ever said that the vast majority of muslims are NOT peaceful? Clearly with a billion muslims in the world (and growing) things would be a tad more chaotic if they weren't peaceful. I am lamenting the fact that they are increasingly represented by a their violent fringe and their leftist allies. Disagree. They are increasingly PERCEIVED as being represented by a violent fringe element.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 9, 2011 13:49:39 GMT -5
When have I ever said that the vast majority of muslims are NOT peaceful? Clearly with a billion muslims in the world (and growing) things would be a tad more chaotic if they weren't peaceful. I am lamenting the fact that they are increasingly represented by a their violent fringe and their leftist allies. Disagree. They are increasingly PERCEIVED as being represented by a violent fringe element. Then they need to change the perception. Perception = Reality. The peaceful muslims-- the vast majority-- must openly, unabashedly, and without fear-- step up and join the fight against the extremists. They need to help us create a world in which we are attacked and the reasonable conclusion is that it wasn't them.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Mar 9, 2011 13:58:04 GMT -5
They cannot change someone else's perception. How you perceive something isn't under my control. I am able to discern the difference between Muslims and terrorists. If someone else can't, I can't change that, since such people rarely hear anything but the voices in their own heads. The Muslim people do stand up and address the subject; however, it's hard for them to be heard over the clamor of those who are seeking someone/something to hate. There are examples of Muslim leaders speaking out against terrorism all over the internet. Do people seek them out? No. Why? Because they're not near as sensational, nor are they near as much fun to post as articles which will exacerbate the hatred of all things different, or not understood.
|
|