jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 25, 2015 8:47:16 GMT -5
i didn't say that you said you struggled. i was extrapolating based on my own experience. i worked part time and went to school full time. if i had worked full time, it would have taken me another 5 years to graduate. if i had not worked at all, i would have accumulated a huge amount of debt. either of those would have been a hardship to me- one that i was able to avoid by using my parents funds (which, incidentally, they were happy to do). i extrapolated further that it would present a hardship to MOST people . i would like OTHERS to comment as to whether they worked FULL TIME WHILE GOING TO SCHOOL before i comment further, and get their impressions from them.Full time? Gosh, no....I didn't need to. Our universities are taxpayer funded, so there was no need to work full time. It's not expensive, and parents don't need to take out mortgages to send their kids to college. Kids aren't left with crippling debt to pay off. I worked in a doughnut shop to pay for my tuition and books, while I was getting a degree in abnormal psychology. It served me well when I later went into psychiatric nursing. No, but your parents probably only received about 60% of their paycheck too...and they would have gotten that smaller amount whether they had kids that went to college or not. More socialist countries are still paying the high price of college, its just hidden in their confiscatory tax structures.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on May 25, 2015 8:54:38 GMT -5
Ok, I'm going to ask a real dumb question here and I have no idea where you are living but here goes. If universities are taxpayer funded what does that pay for? Not being argumentative just need some clairifaction. I guess I was thinking that "taxpayer funded" meant tuition and books were automatically covered. ETA: I think I remember you being from Germany? Just curious about how it works elsewhere!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 25, 2015 11:11:48 GMT -5
edit: i should mention that my dad didn't pay a red cent for my community college education. i worked part time and went to school full time, then, but the cost was so low, i could manage it. The cost was about the same for me...I got my Assoc Degree from a Tech College and the cost for a full load semester was about $500 plus books. Whereas once I switched to the 4-year program at a local college, the cost was almost $600 per class (and quickly jumped to $700+ after the first couple years). The online classes were always about $200 more than the on-campus ones, too. where we differed is that i went to a brick and mortar school after my AS degree. it was pricey. my parents were glad to pay because they could see that i was not f*&king around, and they had the money. i didn't ask. they offered. i accepted.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 25, 2015 11:12:54 GMT -5
i didn't say that you said you struggled. i was extrapolating based on my own experience. i worked part time and went to school full time. if i had worked full time, it would have taken me another 5 years to graduate. if i had not worked at all, i would have accumulated a huge amount of debt. either of those would have been a hardship to me- one that i was able to avoid by using my parents funds (which, incidentally, they were happy to do). i extrapolated further that it would present a hardship to MOST people . i would like OTHERS to comment as to whether they worked FULL TIME WHILE GOING TO SCHOOL before i comment further, and get their impressions from them.Full time? Gosh, no....I didn't need to. Our universities are taxpayer funded, so there was no need to work full time. It's not expensive, and parents don't need to take out mortgages to send their kids to college. Kids aren't left with crippling debt to pay off. I worked in a doughnut shop to pay for my tuition and books, while I was getting a degree in abnormal psychology. It served me well when I later went into psychiatric nursing. probably has benefits on public bulletin boards, as well.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 25, 2015 11:14:28 GMT -5
Full time? Gosh, no....I didn't need to. Our universities are taxpayer funded, so there was no need to work full time. It's not expensive, and parents don't need to take out mortgages to send their kids to college. Kids aren't left with crippling debt to pay off. I worked in a doughnut shop to pay for my tuition and books, while I was getting a degree in abnormal psychology. It served me well when I later went into psychiatric nursing. No, but your parents probably only received about 60% of their paycheck too...and they would have gotten that smaller amount whether they had kids that went to college or not. More socialist countries are still paying the high price of college, its just hidden in their confiscatory tax structures. most countries have lower deficit spending than the US, even with all of their "socialism". some even have surpluses.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 25, 2015 12:25:10 GMT -5
Ok, I'm going to ask a real dumb question here and I have no idea where you are living but here goes. If universities are taxpayer funded what does that pay for? Not being argumentative just need some clairifaction. I guess I was thinking that "taxpayer funded" meant tuition and books were automatically covered. ETA: I think I remember you being from Germany? Just curious about how it works elsewhere! Universities are taxpayer funded in that the tuition is extremely reasonable. Students pay for their own books. My niece graduated from a prestigious medical school, and her tuition in total was $27,500. Something similar in the US would cost about $250,000. It's gone up in the last couple of years, but not by much. I'm in Canada.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 25, 2015 12:43:37 GMT -5
Full time? Gosh, no....I didn't need to. Our universities are taxpayer funded, so there was no need to work full time. It's not expensive, and parents don't need to take out mortgages to send their kids to college. Kids aren't left with crippling debt to pay off. I worked in a doughnut shop to pay for my tuition and books, while I was getting a degree in abnormal psychology. It served me well when I later went into psychiatric nursing. No, but your parents probably only received about 60% of their paycheck too...and they would have gotten that smaller amount whether they had kids that went to college or not. More socialist countries are still paying the high price of college, its just hidden in their confiscatory tax structures. Payroll taxes here are about the same as yours. In any case, of course someone pays for it, much like our "free" healthcare. The funding doesn't drop out of the sky from a money fairy. That being said, do I think what we pay in taxes is worth it? Yes. Healthcare, tuition, extended maternity leave, daycare, etc., all lead to a healthy and stable population.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 25, 2015 13:40:03 GMT -5
No, but your parents probably only received about 60% of their paycheck too...and they would have gotten that smaller amount whether they had kids that went to college or not. More socialist countries are still paying the high price of college, its just hidden in their confiscatory tax structures. Payroll taxes here are about the same as yours. In any case, of course someone pays for it, much like our "free" healthcare. The funding doesn't drop out of the sky from a money fairy. That being said, do I think what we pay in taxes is worth it? Yes. Healthcare, tuition, extended maternity leave, daycare, etc., all lead to a healthy and stable population.
lower stress, greater flexibility in decision making regarding things like career changes, better health outcomes, etc. the list is practically endless.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on May 25, 2015 17:54:11 GMT -5
Ok, I'm going to ask a real dumb question here and I have no idea where you are living but here goes. If universities are taxpayer funded what does that pay for? Not being argumentative just need some clairifaction. I guess I was thinking that "taxpayer funded" meant tuition and books were automatically covered. ETA: I think I remember you being from Germany? Just curious about how it works elsewhere! Universities are taxpayer funded in that the tuition is extremely reasonable. Students pay for their own books. My niece graduated from a prestigious medical school, and her tuition in total was $27,500. Something similar in the US would cost about $250,000. It's gone up in the last couple of years, but not by much. I'm in Canada.
Gotcha! And shows how lousy my memory is about where you are from.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 25, 2015 18:52:23 GMT -5
Different view on citizens- In Canada and other 'European style socialist countries' the idea is to promote quality of life and take care of each other- the "we are in it together" model- where healthcare and education is more of a basic right than a commodity.
In the USA- the 'Free-market capitalist" model is the promote the accumulation of wealth of the few using the consumer debt "each man for himself" model- where the idea is to sink citizens into permanent payment streams as soon as possible. What better graduation present than 100K in debt before someone even has a job- and no healthcare either until you can pay for it
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 25, 2015 19:30:08 GMT -5
Different view on citizens- In Canada and other 'European style socialist countries' the idea is to promote quality of life and take care of each other- the "we are in it together" model- where healthcare and education is more of a basic right than a commodity.
In the USA- the 'Free-market capitalist" model is the promote the accumulation of wealth of the few using the consumer debt "each man for himself" model- where the idea is to sink citizens into permanent payment streams as soon as possible. What better graduation present than 100K in debt before someone even has a job- and no healthcare either until you can pay for it Yet they do make up for it in other ways...housing, for instance. In some countries its damn near impossible to own a house (far too expensive).
My parents just got back from a trip to Germany, and their friends who live there have a son who got a job in Munich (I believe it was) but he can't find an affordable place to live at all. He'll be lucky to find someplace within 100 miles of Munich that he can afford (and that just for an apartment - housing is even worse)
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 25, 2015 20:20:55 GMT -5
Are you saying housing is more affordable here?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 25, 2015 21:15:14 GMT -5
Different view on citizens- In Canada and other 'European style socialist countries' the idea is to promote quality of life and take care of each other- the "we are in it together" model- where healthcare and education is more of a basic right than a commodity.
In the USA- the 'Free-market capitalist" model is the promote the accumulation of wealth of the few using the consumer debt "each man for himself" model- where the idea is to sink citizens into permanent payment streams as soon as possible. What better graduation present than 100K in debt before someone even has a job- and no healthcare either until you can pay for it That's exactly it. We're all in this together. I found that in the US, it's "us vs them". Even though I don't have children of daycare age, I don't mind paying for it. I don't have to worry about mat leave, but I don't mind paying for it. It keeps women off the welfare rolls and everyone benefits. I can't tell you how many times I've heard howling from Republicans...."Why should my hard-earned dollars go towards maternity leave or womens' healthcare! I don't need it!"
Different mentality, I guess.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 26, 2015 9:36:57 GMT -5
Are you saying housing is more affordable here?
Most definitely...in some large urban cities, not as much, but in the areas I've lived (I'm not a big city guy ) houses were very affordable. My current house I'm paying less on my mortgage than I was on rent!
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 26, 2015 19:56:19 GMT -5
Are you saying housing is more affordable here?
Most definitely...in some large urban cities, not as much, but in the areas I've lived (I'm not a big city guy ) houses were very affordable. My current house I'm paying less on my mortgage than I was on rent! We are just a hair larger than Germany But sure- you can buy a house in Detroit for less than the cost of a car. But if you move where the jobs are housing is expensive- can't believe a big city in Germany is any worse than a big city here.
Rents are very high here- I also pay less on my mortgage than the cost of renting a similar house- and I bought on a 15 year loan. Going to rent this sucker out and buy another in a few years.
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