Statistics degree holders - help

[MJ2.0]

This morning I received two big pieces of news:
1. my original boss when I first started at my company is retiring in June. She's in her late 50s and has been here for 30 years.
2. my grandmother passed away last night.


Those things made me mentally re-visit the things I want to make happen for myself and my family. I need to take control of my career so that I can help better support DS and give us a more comfortable life filled with rich experiences. That said, I'm looking to get my master's degree in something with a decent pay range and good job prospects.... statistics/biostatistics. I'm hoping to work either for a public health organization/research institution or a pharmaceutical company.

I didn't take a lot of math in school, but I went up to precalc in college and have almost always gotten As and Bs as final grades. I will need to practice and study a LOT, but I know that I can do this.

I'd like to start applying next year. I know that I have to take Calc I and II and at least one statistics course before I apply. But can I get away with just a Master's degree? Can anyone with relevant experiences please share?

[travelnut11]

HI MJ-

I'm not a statistician but I work with a lot of them in the pharmaceutical industry.  I'm pretty sure they all have PhDs in big pharma/biotech.  How about becoming a statistical programmer?  That's what I do so you work with statistics but get to use a lot of logic with less writing and analyzing.  There are always tons of jobs too (many of them remote like me for the past 12 years). 

I used to work in non-profit policy research in the DC area and there were some Master's level statisticians that I worked with but their careers tended to dead end if they didn't end up going back to graduate school after a few years.

Just my experience.  Hopefully someone else can chime in.

travelnut11

[flamingo]

First, I'm so sorry to hear your grandmother passed away.

Second, I'm not sure if a Master's is enough or if you need a PhD based on what little information you've given. I work in higher ed and the big thing here is data analytics (or big data) but it's by far the fastest growing program in my area. You need calc 1 and 2 to apply, you can take statistics before, or once you are in the program. It has a computer science aspect to it as well, but the students who are doing the master's degree are getting job offers long before they are finished with the program and can pretty much write their own ticket. They are working in all of the areas you mention (public health organizations, research institutions, pharm companies) as well as insurance companies, tech companies, etc.

The people joining this program, while they aren't all coming from a statistics undergrad background, want to work in areas where statistics rule. As I'm not statistics minded, it makes my head want to explode when I talk to some of them  But in terms of good job prospects/good money, it really seems to be worth it.

Good luck!

[phil5185]

I know that I have to take Calc I and II and at least one statistics course before I apply. But can I get away with just a Master's degree?

I don't have a stat degree - but I've had some experiences.

In the defense business, say a fighter plane, we determine the acceptable quality of each piece and then progress up the tree to the subassembly level, the assemble level, and finally to the top assemble level. Eg, a alternator has several 100 parts that combine to a level, maybe .99999 for the unit. Same for the air pumps, engines, landing gear, yada. After you ripple those 1000's of parts to the top assembly, maybe the airplane has .9999. But the hard question  becomes "what is the goal?"  If a plane fails 1/10,000 is that OK? The problem reduces to  " how often is the unthinkable acceptable?"  When the plane fails, the pilot can eject, and hopefully survive, sometimes.

Escalate that to a manned lunar space ship - the answer is different, the option of "eject and survive" is removed. So 1/10,000 is no longer acceptable - but what IS acceptable? When the unthinkable happens in Space, the assumed outcome is 'fatal'. And it is extremely difficult to place a "level of acceptability" on a fatal outcome.

But after the hard work is done - determining the level of acceptability - rippling the math down thru the fault trees is straight-forward math. Tedious, but straight forward. No differential equations needed.

[tskeeter]

Mar 31, 2015 12:19:17 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

This morning I received two big pieces of news:
1. my original boss when I first started at my company is retiring in June. She's in her late 50s and has been here for 30 years.
2. my grandmother passed away last night.


Those things made me mentally re-visit the things I want to make happen for myself and my family. I need to take control of my career so that I can help better support DS and give us a more comfortable life filled with rich experiences. That said, I'm looking to get my master's degree in something with a decent pay range and good job prospects.... statistics/biostatistics. I'm hoping to work either for a public health organization/research institution or a pharmaceutical company.

I didn't take a lot of math in school, but I went up to precalc in college and have almost always gotten As and Bs as final grades. I will need to practice and study a LOT, but I know that I can do this.

I'd like to start applying next year. I know that I have to take Calc I and II and at least one statistics course before I apply. But can I get away with just a Master's degree? Can anyone with relevant experiences please share?

MJ, before you select a career path, yu probably want to checck out the options carefully.  Seems to me that I recently saw something that indicated that public health and medical research are not necessarily well compensated fields.  Pharama, however, should be much more lucrative.


As another poster indicated data analytics is all the rage.  A nephew recently completed the data analytics program at Northwestern.  He's now working for a professional baseball team.  We'll have to see if his analysis can turn them into a contender.  Seems he didn't think the pay was all that great.  But, it's a baseball team.  You've gotta think that a lot more folks want to work for a baeball team than for an insurance company.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

This was the direction I was going when I stepped out of the field.  I was working on my dissertation in epidemiology and biostatistics for my PhD in public health, and even with my background in biology, I wound up having to take several classes to get me into the program.  By bridging the epi and biostats, I didn't have to get into the massive amounts of math that I would have needed for a straight biostats degree.  I want to say that the biostats part of the program I was in called for 4 semesters of calculus.....and I had 2 and was NOT going to take any more.  This degree would have been advantageous to me with regards to where I was working, and what I was doing in the lab - which was why I was doing it.  

As others have mentioned, an MS really doesn't get you much.  Most of the statisticians that I have seen that have made more money have the doctorate unless you go the straight stats degree from the math department.  A stats degree in PH is  not going to compensate you well.  I think that Carl's wife is making about $40K in Boston - and she has her MS.  That's about average for what I've seen.

[MJ2.0]

Thanks for the info.

I'll look into big data/analysis. I am not about to get a PhD.

[giramomma]

What about being an actuary? It's well paying (looks like you can eventually crack 6 figures)

If you do google searches, on actuarial demand, the articles are old (2012-2013) but the titles include "The best job you never thought of" and degrees with 0% unemployment.

If you look here, the numbers are quite good
www.bls.gov/ooh/math/actuaries.htm

[wvugurl26]

Yeah we hired a guy recently, PhD was required. GS-15 level pay. The guy is a genius. We also have a contract with another guy, also a PhD. These guys bless our sampling plans and extrapolations for audits.

[alabamagal]

Sign up for calculus I and see how that goes.  Since you have never had it, you don't know if it is something you can do or not.

Actuary is a good field, but you have to be good in math.  My DS just got a job as an beginning actuary.  You don't have to have a specific degree, but you have to be able to pass actuary exams.  My son's major was finance and economics, and he took 2 semesters of calculus and differential equations as an elective.  He passed his first 2 exams and got a job paying $54k right out of college, which is actually on the low end of starting salary.

[Deleted]

I "third" the recommendation of actuarial work! Don't bother with an Actuarial Science program- you'd be narrowing your options way down. A Statistics degree and a couple of exams will do it. I worked with many Ph.Ds but it's not necessary.

There's just so much data out there they really need people who can sort it out and find interesting stuff. That goes double for people who understand the business.

If you want to talk to a real live actuary or two, PM me. I had a great career in that field.

[MJ2.0]

thanks for the input, everyone!

I took precalc in college and got an A, so I'm going back and trying to re-teach myself so that I don't have to take a precalc refresher course. I found a great website to get practice worksheets and some actual textbook information. We'll see after I'm done with calc I. I know I'll need to bust my ass but I am confident in my abilities.

I have had fleeting thoughts about going the actuary route but I'm just not sure. Like I said, I'll probably have a better idea of what route I want to take after I've taken calc I.

[azucena]

I'm on track to finish the last two actuarial exams this year.  And while it's true that I've cracked the 6 figure mark, I honestly don't know if I would do it all over again.  No exaggeration, I've spent 400 personal hours and 100 company hours studying each of the last three 6 month periods.  This is tough to do when you're working full time and have kids - mine are 2 and 6 yrs old.  Now, maybe I'll forget and forgive this period in my life after I've had my designation for a few years but right now, it's no picnic.  Anyway, just my two cents.

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 8:03:39 GMT -5 azucena said:

I'm on track to finish the last two actuarial exams this year.  And while it's true that I've cracked the 6 figure mark, I honestly don't know if I would do it all over again.  <snip> Now, maybe I'll forget and forgive this period in my life after I've had my designation for a few years but right now, it's no picnic.  Anyway, just my two cents.

I hear ya, azucena.  When I came back from the meeting where I got my FCAS designation I realized that I was 30, childless, had a fiancé who kept moving the wedding date, and had spent a huge chunk of my free time studying for the past 8 years.  I got into the house and hurled my certificate, still tied in a baby-blue ribbon, into a corner of the attic.  A few months later, when I found out I was pregnant (and fiancé finally gave up and we got married, which may not have been the best move) I got it out and framed it.

So, I hope you feel better after you've had a few years of a normal life.  I certainly did.  I've decided that if you want to get ahead you have to pay your dues somehow and this paid off better than a lot of other things people do (e.g. getting an MBA from a lower-tier local school, which is also a lot of work). 

I felt a lot better when I read that Milton Friedman gave up on the actuarial exams because they were too hard!

[ugga81]

I actually went to grad school for Biostatistics.  It was supposed to be a PhD program in Biostatistics.  I found a program that not only paid for my tuition but also gave me a living stipend ($21,000/year, if I recall, about 12 years ago).  I'd completed my undergrad in math and thought it was the next logical step.  I had all of the fancy math classes- Calculus, Advanced Calculus, Modern Algebra, Probability and Statistics, Statistical Methods, Set Theory, Abstract Algebra... etc.  I even had a few graduate math classes under my belt as an undergrad.  Once I started my Biostats program I realized I was really in over my head.  I lacked so much of what I was already expected to know before I even showed up.  There were statistical distibution models I'd never even heard of.  I spent a ton of time in the library and going to professors' office hours.  In short, I was absolutely miserable for a year.  At the end, I decided I couldn't go through it for another 3-4 years to get the PhD even though it was paid for and would be lucrative.  I figured that if I hated it so much and felt so lost in school then why would I want to devote my career to it.

I still ended up in a data analysis field but it's not as statistics heavy.  I also deal with tasks more IT related and there are some software development elements that I've found are a better fit for me than straight-up statistics.

[yogiii]

Apr 1, 2015 13:45:08 GMT -5 ugga81 said:

I actually went to grad school for Biostatistics.  It was supposed to be a PhD program in Biostatistics.  I found a program that not only paid for my tuition but also gave me a living stipend ($21,000/year, if I recall, about 12 years ago).  I'd completed my undergrad in math and thought it was the next logical step.  I had all of the fancy math classes- Calculus, Advanced Calculus, Modern Algebra, Probability and Statistics, Statistical Methods, Set Theory, Abstract Algebra... etc.  I even had a few graduate math classes under my belt as an undergrad.  Once I started my Biostats program I realized I was really in over my head.  I lacked so much of what I was already expected to know before I even showed up.  There were statistical distibution models I'd never even heard of.  I spent a ton of time in the library and going to professors' office hours.  In short, I was absolutely miserable for a year.  At the end, I decided I couldn't go through it for another 3-4 years to get the PhD even though it was paid for and would be lucrative.  I figured that if I hated it so much and felt so lost in school then why would I want to devote my career to it.

I still ended up in a data analysis field but it's not as statistics heavy.  I also deal with tasks more IT related and there are some software development elements that I've found are a better fit for me than straight-up statistics.

I wish I could like this 1000x.  I was almost you but took the "easy" way out and just got a job right out of undergrad.  Have never regretted the decision, even though I'm not a huge fan of the job part.

[tskeeter]

Apr 1, 2015 8:03:39 GMT -5 azucena said:

I'm on track to finish the last two actuarial exams this year.  And while it's true that I've cracked the 6 figure mark, I honestly don't know if I would do it all over again.  No exaggeration, I've spent 400 personal hours and 100 company hours studying each of the last three 6 month periods.  This is tough to do when you're working full time and have kids - mine are 2 and 6 yrs old.  Now, maybe I'll forget and forgive this period in my life after I've had my designation for a few years but right now, it's no picnic.  Anyway, just my two cents.

Your actuarial exams are kind of the like CPA exam, the Bar exam, or your medical boards.  It's the ticket to the dance, and once you're in, you're in.  You make a significant invesment, but it's worth the price of admission when you consider that even before you've complete all your exams your personal income is twice the income of the average US family.  And your income is going to go on and grow for years.  By the time you're well into your career, how many times the income of an entire average family will you be making all by yourself?  The certification process is painful.  But, in the long term, it's worth the effort.

And, you selected a good career.  My Dad was an educator.  He had a Doctorate in Education (EDD) and was the Superintendent of a mid sized suburban school district with 20 years experience when I graduated from college in the middle of my class with a BS in Accounting.  My fresh out of school, wet behind the ears, pay check, with no CPA certification, was almost half of what Dad was making with 20 years of experience and a ton more education.  The only up side is that Dad's pension is about 3 1/2 times what my private sector pension will be.   

[yogiii]

One other thing I'd like to add is that with grad school (for a technical degree at least), I think you have to be VERY interested in the subject matter.  My BS is in Applied Math and I got basically straight As at a school with a great STEM program in the northeast.  I worked my butt off and was able to do that but I'm not as into it as most other kids were.  I can do the work but it isn't my passion.  That's one reason I think a math related grad degree program would not have been the best decision for me.

[MJ2.0]

no, I don't LOVE math... but it's useful. Really useful.

My real #1 career path I want to go down is architecture. My fear is that I don't have the artistic vision or creativity. But I would love love LOVE to design and help to construct a building. I still have to take calc I and II for that program (as well as physics - ugh), so I'll see how I feel as I'm going through the math classes. I do like art and I am decent at photography and sketching, but I definitely need a refresher or two in drawing techniques.

[yogiii]

The highest of aspirations

Sorry I can't even hear the word architect without thinking about George Costanza.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 2, 2015 9:38:53 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

no, I don't LOVE math... but it's useful. Really useful.

My real #1 career path I want to go down is architecture. My fear is that I don't have the artistic vision or creativity. But I would love love LOVE to design and help to construct a building. I still have to take calc I and II for that program (as well as physics - ugh), so I'll see how I feel as I'm going through the math classes. I do like art and I am decent at photography and sketching, but I definitely need a refresher or two in drawing techniques.

Have you considered a drafting and design program?  I'm taking one, under the auspices of engineering technology at a tech college in order to do something where I don't have o be on my feet.  There is a civil component, which sounds like what you want.

Calculus and physics are both in the curriculum.....fortunately, I took these for my BS, so don't need to retake them.

[muttleynfelix]

Apr 2, 2015 10:30:34 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 2, 2015 9:38:53 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

no, I don't LOVE math... but it's useful. Really useful.

My real #1 career path I want to go down is architecture. My fear is that I don't have the artistic vision or creativity. But I would love love LOVE to design and help to construct a building. I still have to take calc I and II for that program (as well as physics - ugh), so I'll see how I feel as I'm going through the math classes. I do like art and I am decent at photography and sketching, but I definitely need a refresher or two in drawing techniques.

Have you considered a drafting and design program?  I'm taking one, under the auspices of engineering technology at a tech college in order to do something where I don't have o be on my feet.  There is a civil component, which sounds like what you want.

Calculus and physics are both in the curriculum.....fortunately, I took these for my BS, so don't need to retake them.

There is a real need for CAD people (or GIS). At least in the Midwest. A lot of people left the profession during the recession and they haven't come back. My old company was never able to find a CAD tech when work picked back up. I was chatting with the HR guy at the company I didn't go to work for and they had the same problem and they were 40 times the size of our company. My current group is looking for a GIS person ans they can't find someone qualified.

[travelnut11]

I would have to say that if you don't truly LOVE math that pursuing a pure statistics degree would be torture.  I absolutely LOVE math but I still got sick of it after 3rd semester calculus and can't say that I loved my 2 graduate level statistics courses either.  I think I ended up falling into the right discipline for me where I get to work with math but it isn't the singular focus of my job.  I have absolutely no desire to go back to graduate school to become a statistician (a common path in my line of work) and am very happy doing my technical computer job while still working with math in some sort of capacity. 

I vote that you should try out your true passion with some drafting courses and see how it goes.  You won't know until you try right?

[gs11rmb]

I'm not sure that architects are very well paid, at least in the early years.  You mentioned financial security so this might be something to consider.

[MJ2.0]

Apr 2, 2015 10:50:00 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

Apr 2, 2015 10:30:34 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Have you considered a drafting and design program?  I'm taking one, under the auspices of engineering technology at a tech college in order to do something where I don't have o be on my feet.  There is a civil component, which sounds like what you want.

Calculus and physics are both in the curriculum.....fortunately, I took these for my BS, so don't need to retake them.

There is a real need for CAD people (or GIS). At least in the Midwest. A lot of people left the profession during the recession and they haven't come back. My old company was never able to find a CAD tech when work picked back up. I was chatting with the HR guy at the company I didn't go to work for and they had the same problem and they were 40 times the size of our company. My current group is looking for a GIS person ans they can't find someone qualified.

I need to stay in the NJ/NY metro area, so I need to be able to find good work here. I looked at going to school for drafting years ago, but IMO the average pay wasn't worth going back to school for it. Neither was the job outlook.

[MJ2.0]

Apr 2, 2015 10:56:31 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I'm not sure that architects are very well paid, at least in the early years.  You mentioned financial security so this might be something to consider.

I realize that it's not lucrative immediately - most careers aren't.  But if I can grow my income and business over time, I think I'll be alright.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 2, 2015 10:50:00 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

Apr 2, 2015 10:30:34 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Have you considered a drafting and design program?  I'm taking one, under the auspices of engineering technology at a tech college in order to do something where I don't have o be on my feet.  There is a civil component, which sounds like what you want.

Calculus and physics are both in the curriculum.....fortunately, I took these for my BS, so don't need to retake them.

There is a real need for CAD people (or GIS). At least in the Midwest. A lot of people left the profession during the recession and they haven't come back. My old company was never able to find a CAD tech when work picked back up. I was chatting with the HR guy at the company I didn't go to work for and they had the same problem and they were 40 times the size of our company. My current group is looking for a GIS person ans they can't find someone qualified.

That is what is happening up here too.  The placement from my program is excellent.

Last semester, I got my first taste of 3D graphics and it is utterly cool.  I start the second part of CAD  next week.  By the time this program is over, I should be competent in 4 graphics programs (CAD, Solid Works, Inventor and Catia).

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 2, 2015 11:00:33 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Apr 2, 2015 10:50:00 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

There is a real need for CAD people (or GIS). At least in the Midwest. A lot of people left the profession during the recession and they haven't come back. My old company was never able to find a CAD tech when work picked back up. I was chatting with the HR guy at the company I didn't go to work for and they had the same problem and they were 40 times the size of our company. My current group is looking for a GIS person ans they can't find someone qualified.

I need to stay in the NJ/NY metro area, so I need to be able to find good work here. I looked at going to school for drafting years ago, but IMO the average pay wasn't worth going back to school for it. Neither was the job outlook.

You might want to look again, and in other fields.  6 figures s not uncommon in certain paths, and the one I'm on starts at $60k.  Civil is a little less though.

[MJ2.0]

Apr 2, 2015 11:06:56 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 2, 2015 11:00:33 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I need to stay in the NJ/NY metro area, so I need to be able to find good work here. I looked at going to school for drafting years ago, but IMO the average pay wasn't worth going back to school for it. Neither was the job outlook.

You might want to look again, and in other fields.  6 figures s not uncommon in certain paths, and the one I'm on starts at $60k.  Civil is a little less though.

they are almost all medical professionals... no thank you.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 2, 2015 12:17:05 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Apr 2, 2015 11:06:56 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

You might want to look again, and in other fields.  6 figures s not uncommon in certain paths, and the one I'm on starts at $60k.  Civil is a little less though.

they are almost all medical professionals... no thank you.

We had a guy come in who ran the designing division of the manufacturer of seats for Boeing - and this is not at Boeing.  He graduated from an engineering tech program.  So did the guy who designs piping used for the oil fields/refineries (these are the big industries in the area, you'd have to look around and see what NY/NJ has).  If you have any manufacturers in the area, they need designers.  So do engineering firms.  

As I have said, the salaries in civil are less, but the program is a good jumping off point to decide if you want to go into either civil or structural engineering, where the salaries are a bit more....but not considerably - maybe about 20-30% more.  A friend of my sister is a structural civil engineer.  I know she has done very well, but she graduated with a civil engineering BS and I believe she has a MS.  She owns her own home in San Francisco and is taking a sabbatical to do some structural work for a non profit firm in the Philippines.

These are not medical professionals.  They graduated from the tech program I am in with a 2 year AS degree.