Job Advice Thread

[raeoflyte]

I have to be in an office 4-5 hours away for 2 days next week.  I was going to drive it because flying still takes at least 4 hours time by the time you drive to the airport, wait, fly, etc. and it just seems like such a pain.  My dad and my dh would *really* prefer that I fly because they think its safer.  I don't think my driving is a concern, just the driving alone for long hours some at night (I'd leave around 3-4am and then drive home at 5pm at the end of the 2nd day).  

Since I was planning on flying I probably won't want to spend the money on a last minute ticket but I said I would price it today.  Neither my dad or dh are overbearing and I love and respect them and try to take their opinions into consideration because I expect they do the same for me.  But I can't help but feel like they are over reacting and that this wouldn't even be a conversation if I were a guy.  Am I off base? 

[yogiii]

I'd be concerned if you were driving MOTN, as you're likely sleep-deprived constantly right now but leaving at 3-4am?  Nah, that's almost a normal time.   Assure them you'll get a large coffee.

[raeoflyte]

I checked the price and tickets at this point are over $1000 so that made it an easy decision.  I rented a car for $117 and will be on my way.  I could drive in the night before, but I prefer the early morning so that I don't miss out on another bedtime with the kids (might seem strange, but that is some of our best quality time together).  

[chen35]

Okay, we've got to liven this board up a bit, so I'm trying to think of things to post.

How well do you manage your career? I really need to get to our Delaware office soon, to meet some people and schmooze. I need to do this in order to stay relevant. Otherwise I will become a figurehead, and not have any real responsibilities. I really don't want to do this. I am horrible at schmoozing. I am more of the keep your head down and get the job done type. I know I am at a level where I need to change my priorities, and I'm really struggling with it.

[Ombud]

I suck at it so no advice. Dear sis says they only notice if your desk is covered with papers and you're taking part in some side conversations. I hate clutter (see large box on desk with papers perpendicular to file so the 'to do' sticks out) and not great on chit chat. Yesterday thought I was in trouble when she walked me out of office to talk. Turns out she wanted to show me expansion area with 3 more private offices (1 is mine)

[flamingo]

I hate schmoozing. I'm not very good at it. BUT, I've found the more I try (aka fake it till I make it), the better things go for me professionally. I'm in an industry that to move up the ladder, you almost alway have to move on. The people I've schmoozed with at my former jobs are still friendly colleagues and have passed info on to me re jobs, info needed to succeed in my job, etc. So, for as much as I hate it, I have found it helpful. 

I still want to "move up" the ladder in my industry, though. I'm not ready to stay at my level for the rest of my career. So if it impresses people that I show up at retirement parties for people I barely know, send good wishes for that random cousin the person 4 floors above me have only met twice but is happy they are graduating, I do it. It's not "fun" per se, but then, it's work and I always figure work just isn't always fun.

Notice, I pick the "easy things" to do. Retirement parties that happen over the lunch hour, a congrats email/stop by the desk when I'm already on that floor, etc. I'm not into giving up my free time for happy hours/dinners/weekend birthday parties. And, I always pick things my boss will notice. Otherwise, what's the point?!  

[chen35]

When do you go to HR for things? Someone reported a guy on my staff for saying something inappropriate. Not sexual, more along the lines of 'you're d-bag and am never going to help you again." the person who reported my staff is the LAST person who should be inviting HR to scrutinize his conduct, and I am shocked that the guy on my staff said that. He is extremely proper. I think that they are good buddies generally, the chronically inappropriate guy pushed my guy until he snapped and said something he shouldn't have. I would have preferred to have handled it without HR (because no matter the reasoning, my staff was definitely out of line), but I didn't hear about it until HR contacted me. I hate managing people!

[shanendoah]

Staff always have the right to go directly to HR. Repeat that to yourself as many times as you need to. Staff always have the right to go directly to HR. And you have no need to know the reasons why they chose to go to HR over you.

Yes, we would like it if these things always came to us first. But if someone on your staff said something inappropriate to someone on someone else's staff, how would you want that handled? Would you want someone else's staff coming right to you? How might that look to people who just see that person in your office? Do you want them going to their boss (presumably your peer), who would then come to you?

When it might need to be handled by HR no matter what, it actually cuts out a lot of the telephone game if people go straight to HR.

When do I got to HR? When I think it needs to be handled by HR - discrimination or harassment, or if mediation is needed, etc.

And I will say the worst employee "spat" I ever dealt with was between two staff members who were best friends when I started in the job and then something happened (that no one was ever certain about). I actually wanted to fire one (HR wouldn't let me because they were afraid of an age discrimination suit). The both refused mediation. The situation only resolved when one left due to health reasons.

[chen35]

Jun 16, 2015 18:21:47 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

Staff always have the right to go directly to HR. Repeat that to yourself as many times as you need to. Staff always have the right to go directly to HR. And you have no need to know the reasons why they chose to go to HR over you.

Yes, we would like it if these things always came to us first. But if someone on your staff said something inappropriate to someone on someone else's staff, how would you want that handled? Would you want someone else's staff coming right to you? How might that look to people who just see that person in your office? Do you want them going to their boss (presumably your peer), who would then come to you?

When it might need to be handled by HR no matter what, it actually cuts out a lot of the telephone game if people go straight to HR.

When do I got to HR? When I think it needs to be handled by HR - discrimination or harassment, or if mediation is needed, etc.

And I will say the worst employee "spat" I ever dealt with was between two staff members who were best friends when I started in the job and then something happened (that no one was ever certain about). I actually wanted to fire one (HR wouldn't let me because they were afraid of an age discrimination suit). The both refused mediation. The situation only resolved when one left due to health reasons.

Absolutely, they have the right to go to HR. It turns out that the guys manager is the one who went to HR. In this situation, I would have preferred that the manager (who I have a good working relationship with) would have come to me first, but he came to me yesterday and told me why he went to HR (I didn't ask, like you said, not my business), and there are some other issues at play with his employee, so he felt like the situation needed to be documented. I completely understand that. I'm more just annoyed that I'm having to babysit staff at this level. 

[chen35]

I'm the first to admit that I'm not the best manager. I am constantly working on becoming better, but I'm still pretty insecure about it. I'm in accounting, and what makes a great accountant doesn't necessarily make a good manager. In fact, probably the opposite. So I really have to stretch myself to manage people somewhat decently.

[midjd]

Anyone have any pointers on improving one's attitude at work?

I truly love my job, and generally get along well with my supervisor, but her control freak tendencies are starting to wear me down. For the past couple of years, we've been so busy/understaffed that I've had quite a bit of autonomy. As things have calmed down, she has more time to micromanage everything I do (including things like completely writing my part of a presentation we were supposed to prepare together). The things she does let me handle usually come with a comment like "this doesn't really matter" or "oh, I hate doing this stuff, you can do it." While I know my role as subordinate includes doing the grunt work, being told I'm only being assigned something because she doesn't want it is not great for my morale.

I think that having a conversation about my goals and willingness to take on more difficult work *could* be constructive, but at this point I've developed such a "fuck it" attitude I don't think I could give the conversation the effort it deserves. Any advice on talking myself out of this spiral is appreciated.

[flamingo]

midjd-I think the first thing to decide is if you want to stay at this job. I know you are on the loan forgiveness 10 year plan, so you may HAVE to stay. But, your attitude won't change if you really don't want to stay.

If you do want to stay, then figure out what matters to you in regards to your overall job duties/tasks. My boss can be a micro-manager at times. I have more autonomy than it seems you have right now but this will still apply. So, one of my tasks is proof-reading marketing material. I hate doing this. My boss, however, is really good at it. When the email comes in with what needs proof-read, I forward it on to my boss and say something like, "Hey this needs done by XX date. Can you help me look through this? I know we need to add A, but is there anything else that jumps out at you?" My boss then proofs the whole thing, emails it back to me, and I can call it good. I do this with a lot of little things. Then, the big things (managing my office), I randomly ask her advice on (mostly when it's a small issue that I know we'll agree on), and then I am "taking" her advice. This way, the big things that I want to handle my way, I can, and it's no big deal because she trusts me.

My boss appears to micro-manage when really what she wants is to be involved. We were a small department for many years, and just in the last year have we gotten back to being fully staffed. I think she's bored sometimes. She used to do so many different jobs while waiting for funding to hire, that now that all the positions are full, she doesn't know how to go back to doing just her job. So, I involve her in the things that help me and she leaves me alone on the other aspects. Another manager I work with (who reports to the same boss) hasn't figured this out yet, and routinely complains about her micro-managing. Also, and this is the hardest part, is knowing my boss says things with no malice behind the words. Reading an email from her "Did you do A, B, and C like we talked about last week?", I think she's just asking a question, and the other manager thinks, wow that's so why does she hate me and not trust me? It doesn't mean anything other than she wants an update. Only you know your boss well enough to know if there are hidden meanings behind her words. And my boss has told us that she doesn't do hidden meanings, she just asks for updates when the thought pops in her head.

Having a list of what really matters to you on a day to day basis, and having a plan on how to address this with your boss, *should* help your attitude, if you want to stay at this employer/position for the long run. Otherwise, maybe a vacation could help??

Good luck!

[midjd]

We were a small department for many years, and just in the last year have we gotten back to being fully staffed. I think she's bored sometimes. She used to do so many different jobs while waiting for funding to hire, that now that all the positions are full, she doesn't know how to go back to doing just her job

I think this is exactly the issue here, too. We are a very small department (the two of us and an admin assistant), and my boss is a very extroverted, high-energy person, so when things are slow I think she has a hard time dialing it down. This is probably the longest "dead" period we've had since I've been here (which, from a public policy POV, is a good thing).

I do love my job, and I would want to stay here even if not for the loan forgiveness, so it's definitely in my best interest to try to make things work. I was so excited when I transferred to this department because my boss is extremely skilled and I knew I could learn a lot from her. I haven't been disappointed on that front, but I feel like my learning trajectory is waning a bit because she's doing so much herself lately and I'm not really a part of the process. Instead of handling it like an adult and talking to her about it, I just think "" all the time. 

So a vacation probably wouldn't hurt, either. 

Typing this out has really helped me organize my thoughts, thank you all for listening.

[chen35]

Need some advice on a situation with an employee. I have a manager who has worked for me for 5 years now. When she first started she was basically taking over processes I had developed and implemented, so I was able to show her step by step, exactly what to do. I thought for about 2.5 - 3 years after that she was a great employee. She did what she needed to do and I didn't need to babysit her.

Fast forward to now, and her job has changed quite a bit. A lot of what she initially did no longer exists, so I have had to expand her role into other areas. My responsibilities have drastically increased, and I don't have the same amount of time to walk her through every little thing I need her to do. One new system we brought over, I ran the processing for 2 months to get a feel for it, then moved it over to her. She has been doing the processing for over a year, and every month she still has questions for me on a process that I did TWICE. I feel like if she doesn't have step by step instructions for something, she can't do it. She doesn't currently have the skills to figure things out on her own. I think it's probably 70% she doesn't have that skill, 30% not wanting to put the effort in. If she was a staff level employee this would be okay, I would just figure that she probably wouldn't advance much. But being a manager, I need her to be performing at a higher level.

So questions
1. Can someone learn how to figure things out, or is this something you either have or don't?
2. If the answer to the first question is yes, how do I go about helping her figure that out? I am willing to put the time in to get her to where she needs to be. How do you train someone to investigate and problem solve?
3. How do I offer this as constructive criticism, rather than just making her feel like crap? I'm not good at phrasing things...

[yogiii]

If you always answer her questions, she will always come back because it is an easy option.

 
Can you say something along the lines of "Sure I can help you out this time however given x and y reason, schedule overload, I'm afraid if you need any subsequent help you'll be left to figure it out on your own. Or you could always ask Jane Doe from this department."

I'm guessing she'll take the lesser of two evils and either figure it out herself or start bothering Jane Doe.  Not sure if in your situation there is even a Jane Doe to ask but at least this will hopefully clarify in her mind that her time with you is up and she better buckle down and take notes during this last chance with you.

[flamingo]

When I've had employees do this, I always ask them to pull out their notes from the last time I walked them through the process. Usually the first time I say that, their all like "huh? Notes?" and then I say, ok, get a pen and paper and take notes this time as I walk you through this again. I always add something like how this is part of your job and what are you going to do next time this crops up and I'm not here? That usually gets my employee(s) to take it more seriously, because having to ask MY boss for help is a fate worse than death for them

Then, after that, I refer them to the notes they took the first time. I'll say something like, "Did you miss writing down a step in your notes? Did something change that the process last month isn't working?" Sometimes, they legitimately need my help. Most times, they just didn't look at their notes. The hard part about this is that I could just do it in half the time it's taking the person, so I have to reign in my tendency to just jump in and do it. BUT, I've successfully gotten employees to do the work themselves this way.

[chen35]

Oct 28, 2015 11:40:55 GMT -5 flamingo said:

When I've had employees do this, I always ask them to pull out their notes from the last time I walked them through the process. Usually the first time I say that, their all like "huh? Notes?" and then I say, ok, get a pen and paper and take notes this time as I walk you through this again. I always add something like how this is part of your job and what are you going to do next time this crops up and I'm not here? That usually gets my employee(s) to take it more seriously, because having to ask MY boss for help is a fate worse than death for them

Then, after that, I refer them to the notes they took the first time. I'll say something like, "Did you miss writing down a step in your notes? Did something change that the process last month isn't working?" Sometimes, they legitimately need my help. Most times, they just didn't look at their notes. The hard part about this is that I could just do it in half the time it's taking the person, so I have to reign in my tendency to just jump in and do it. BUT, I've successfully gotten employees to do the work themselves this way.

Those are some good suggestions. That should work for repetitive processes. But as a manager, I expect you to at least get a good start on figuring things out when new things come up. Does that make sense? I can't figure everything out for you, I have enough on my plate. I feel like she doesn't have the skillset to do this, and don't know if it can be learned? I've always just had an internal curiosity that drove me to figure things out for myself. 

[saveinla]

Oct 28, 2015 11:58:10 GMT -5 chen35 said:

Oct 28, 2015 11:40:55 GMT -5 flamingo said:

When I've had employees do this, I always ask them to pull out their notes from the last time I walked them through the process. Usually the first time I say that, their all like "huh? Notes?" and then I say, ok, get a pen and paper and take notes this time as I walk you through this again. I always add something like how this is part of your job and what are you going to do next time this crops up and I'm not here? That usually gets my employee(s) to take it more seriously, because having to ask MY boss for help is a fate worse than death for them

Then, after that, I refer them to the notes they took the first time. I'll say something like, "Did you miss writing down a step in your notes? Did something change that the process last month isn't working?" Sometimes, they legitimately need my help. Most times, they just didn't look at their notes. The hard part about this is that I could just do it in half the time it's taking the person, so I have to reign in my tendency to just jump in and do it. BUT, I've successfully gotten employees to do the work themselves this way.

Those are some good suggestions. That should work for repetitive processes. But as a manager, I expect you to at least get a good start on figuring things out when new things come up. Does that make sense? I can't figure everything out for you, I have enough on my plate. I feel like she doesn't have the skillset to do this, and don't know if it can be learned? I've always just had an internal curiosity that drove me to figure things out for myself. 

I had this with one of my employees who thankfully quit recently. No drive whatsoever - everything had to be repeated multiple times etc. etc.

I would ask the employee to create a document about the existing jobs and even for new ones, have them document what they can and then go over with them, so that way you know they actually went through the process and are asking relevant questions. Good luck - sometimes it does not pay to manage people who do not want to work or are not motivated.

[flamingo]

Oct 28, 2015 11:58:10 GMT -5 chen35 said:

Oct 28, 2015 11:40:55 GMT -5 flamingo said:

When I've had employees do this, I always ask them to pull out their notes from the last time I walked them through the process. Usually the first time I say that, their all like "huh? Notes?" and then I say, ok, get a pen and paper and take notes this time as I walk you through this again. I always add something like how this is part of your job and what are you going to do next time this crops up and I'm not here? That usually gets my employee(s) to take it more seriously, because having to ask MY boss for help is a fate worse than death for them

Then, after that, I refer them to the notes they took the first time. I'll say something like, "Did you miss writing down a step in your notes? Did something change that the process last month isn't working?" Sometimes, they legitimately need my help. Most times, they just didn't look at their notes. The hard part about this is that I could just do it in half the time it's taking the person, so I have to reign in my tendency to just jump in and do it. BUT, I've successfully gotten employees to do the work themselves this way.

Those are some good suggestions. That should work for repetitive processes. But as a manager, I expect you to at least get a good start on figuring things out when new things come up. Does that make sense? I can't figure everything out for you, I have enough on my plate. I feel like she doesn't have the skillset to do this, and don't know if it can be learned? I've always just had an internal curiosity that drove me to figure things out for myself. 

I get this. I work with someone like that. Doesn't do a good job on starting to figure out new things without a lot of help. 

While it takes time on your part, I'd start with questioning where they are at in their thought process. What are their thoughts on how to move forward/figure things out. I'd also tell her that you have so much on your plate, you are delegating this task to her and you depend on her to get it done right/timely. Then check in regularly with her on it to see where she's at. And, again, make sure she is taking notes. Such as "Every time I give you a new project, I expect A, B, and C from you. Do you want me to repeat that so you can write it down?" Then, when she asks you "what do you want me to do after I complete A?" you can refer her to her notes.

I don't know what process/task you are talking about specifically, so this may not work at all. But, if you couldn't tell, I like the written down notes approach and employ it in every situation possible. My employees even told the new guy I recently hired he better write it down because I'll be asking him to pull out his notes and he better have them when I do

[chen35]

Those are good ideas. Maybe I'll start by getting her to brainstorm possible solutions, rather than me offering them to her. And make sure she is always taking notes/writing things down. 

She's going back to school for an MBA because she wants to advance in her career. That is great, but not the most important thing she needs to be working on in order to advance. Trying to figure out how to word this...

[Wisconsin Beth]

Oct 28, 2015 11:58:10 GMT -5 chen35 said:

Oct 28, 2015 11:40:55 GMT -5 flamingo said:

When I've had employees do this, I always ask them to pull out their notes from the last time I walked them through the process. Usually the first time I say that, their all like "huh? Notes?" and then I say, ok, get a pen and paper and take notes this time as I walk you through this again. I always add something like how this is part of your job and what are you going to do next time this crops up and I'm not here? That usually gets my employee(s) to take it more seriously, because having to ask MY boss for help is a fate worse than death for them

Then, after that, I refer them to the notes they took the first time. I'll say something like, "Did you miss writing down a step in your notes? Did something change that the process last month isn't working?" Sometimes, they legitimately need my help. Most times, they just didn't look at their notes. The hard part about this is that I could just do it in half the time it's taking the person, so I have to reign in my tendency to just jump in and do it. BUT, I've successfully gotten employees to do the work themselves this way.

Those are some good suggestions. That should work for repetitive processes. But as a manager, I expect you to at least get a good start on figuring things out when new things come up. Does that make sense? I can't figure everything out for you, I have enough on my plate. I feel like she doesn't have the skillset to do this, and don't know if it can be learned? I've always just had an internal curiosity that drove me to figure things out for myself. 

"How far have you gotten in troubleshooting this yourself?" is not a bad place to start. 

[chen35]

I'm a self proclaimed sucky manager. Does something like this look worthwhile, or like a money grab?


www.coursera.org/specializations/coaching-skills-manager

[tcu2003]

No idea on the course, but I'm assuming you've tried reading various leadership books and not found them helpful?

[chen35]

I have started many, don't know that I've finished any. They have some good ideas but I have a hard time pulling it all together. 

[raeoflyte]

That looks really interesting Chen.  I'd be tempted to look into it, but I just don't know when the heck I would manage to actually do it.  Have you done some searching on coursera for any of their free courses along the same vein to see what you think of them?  

I am also not a very good manager and I struggle with it.  There is so much that I want to do for this job and position and to grow professionally, but just never feel like I can even put a dent in the to-do list.  

[chen35]

I can't find anything on coursera that looks decent (for managing people) that is also free. I could probably get my boss to pay for this one. He should take it too, in all honesty.

[raeoflyte]

That's a great idea!

The focus at my company this year is coaching, and making that personal connection with everyone.  I'm not really into touchy feely stuff at work. Making a class/course like that my goal would be a good idea, and my job might pay for it too.  But I kind of want to tell my boss that my only goal is to accomplish or at least work on my actual work goals that I haven't gotten too.