I Guess The Science Wasn't Settled After All...

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

We've never been as unhealthy as a nation as we are now, and it's all thanks to a fad diet that came out of the United States Senate Select Committee on Nutrition and Human Needs that has lasted almost two generations.  They were completely wrong, they've ruined the health of millions, and now the government is slowly coming around to the actual science which they IGNORED at the time.

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/10/feds-poised-to-withdraw-longstanding-warnings-about-dietary-cholesterol/

The nation’s top nutrition advisory panel has decided to drop its caution about eating cholesterol-laden food, a move that could undo almost 40 years of government warnings about its consumption.

The group’s finding that cholesterol in the diet need no longer be considered a “nutrient of concern” stands in contrast to the committee’s findings five years ago, the last time it convened. During those proceedings, as in previous years, the panel deemed the issue of excess cholesterol in the American diet a public health concern.

The finding follows an evolution of thinking among many nutritionists who now believe that, for healthy adults, eating foods high in cholesterol may not significantly affect the level of cholesterol in the blood or increase the risk of heart disease.

Even in this story, it's clear they're still clinging to the old discredited information and hedging.  The truth is that there's never been a link between the consumption of cholesterol and cholesterol levels in the blood, and what they still will not acknowledge is that there's never been a link between cholesterol and heart disease- none.  Who knows?  In 50 years, maybe they'll admit that?

Can we really trust the government to legislate climate 100 years from now? I think the answer is pretty clear.

[OldCoyote]

But, But But, 97% of the Doctors said it was true about global warming, OOOPS, wrong thread, Cholesterol,

[bean29]

I don't know how this will play out. I myself don't have high cholesterol, but my Mom does, and her Cholesterol level has stayed stubbornly high despite her being careful about what she eats.

DH also has high cholesterol and takes something (I think it is atosvistoran?) for it. Even my DS who is 21 tested high for cholesterol. We found out DS's cholesterol was high when DH tried to write life insurance on him-it will be interesting to see if the insurance companies will change their policies quickly or if they will disagree with the gov't.

Did they really "ruin the health of millions" or just cause them unnecessary angst and expense for very little benefit?

[Tennesseer]

Feb 12, 2015 9:44:45 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

But, But But, 97% of the Doctors said it was true about global warming, OOOPS, wrong thread, Cholesterol,

Says the poster, who while looking at a heat image picture of the Pacific Ocean, claimed the Pacific Ocean waters off Alaska were warmer than equatorial waters of the Pacific Ocean and Tahiti.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 12, 2015 9:44:45 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

But, But But, 97% of the Doctors said it was true about global warming, OOOPS, wrong thread, Cholesterol,

sorry, but nutritional science is TOTALLY different from the physical world.  and the government has indeed LIED about nutritional science because it is in the pocket of industry.  just as they are in the pocket of industry which wants them to perpetuate the idea that AGW does not exist, so that they can continue polluting for free.  or at least that is the argument that makes the most sense to ME, if you want to boil it down to brass tacks. 

[fairlycrazy23]

More settled science

[kittensaver]

Feb 12, 2015 11:03:01 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 12, 2015 9:44:45 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

But, But But, 97% of the Doctors said it was true about global warming, OOOPS, wrong thread, Cholesterol,

sorry, but nutritional science is TOTALLY different from the physical world.  and the government has indeed LIED about nutritional science because it is in the pocket of industry.  just as they are in the pocket of industry which wants them to perpetuate the idea that AGW does not exist, so that they can continue polluting for free.  or at least that is the argument that makes the most sense to ME, if you want to boil it down to brass tacks. 

And of course, Science and The Government CAN'T POSSIBLY be lying about *hush* vaccines *hush* either, right?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 12, 2015 17:26:25 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Feb 12, 2015 11:03:01 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

sorry, but nutritional science is TOTALLY different from the physical world.  and the government has indeed LIED about nutritional science because it is in the pocket of industry.  just as they are in the pocket of industry which wants them to perpetuate the idea that AGW does not exist, so that they can continue polluting for free.  or at least that is the argument that makes the most sense to ME, if you want to boil it down to brass tacks. 

And of course, Science and The Government CAN'T POSSIBLY be lying about *hush* vaccines *hush* either, right?

what are you trying to say there, huh? 

[djAdvocate]

Feb 12, 2015 17:20:37 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

More settled science

forever is a construct, just like time.  there is only now, man.......

[Deleted]

I eat probably the worst diet on the PLANET (cholesterol worries, wise)... and last time I had a blood test, my cholesterol came back with the Doc telling me I needed to RAISE mine, if I wanted to be "healthy average" (he wasn't actually suggesting I raise it... just tongue-in-cheek telling me I was WAY lower than "healthy average").

On the flip side, my Step-Mother (no blood relation, obviously) eats "cholesterol free" everything... and she's got high cholesterol.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 12, 2015 21:32:18 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I eat probably the worst diet on the PLANET (cholesterol worries, wise)... and last time I had a blood test, my cholesterol came back with the Doc telling me I needed to RAISE mine, if I wanted to be "healthy average" (he wasn't actually suggesting I raise it... just tongue-in-cheek telling me I was WAY lower than "healthy average").

On the flip side, my Step-Mother (no blood relation, obviously) eats "cholesterol free" everything... and she's got high cholesterol.

my wife bashes her brains out to get her cholesterol below 200, and yet she is about 220, consistently.
i do nothing, and mine is right about 200.

don't know what to make of any of it.

[Shooby]

Feb 12, 2015 21:34:11 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 12, 2015 21:32:18 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I eat probably the worst diet on the PLANET (cholesterol worries, wise)... and last time I had a blood test, my cholesterol came back with the Doc telling me I needed to RAISE mine, if I wanted to be "healthy average" (he wasn't actually suggesting I raise it... just tongue-in-cheek telling me I was WAY lower than "healthy average").

On the flip side, my Step-Mother (no blood relation, obviously) eats "cholesterol free" everything... and she's got high cholesterol.

my wife bashes her brains out to get her cholesterol below 200, and yet she is about 220, consistently.
i do nothing, and mine is right about 200.

don't know what to make of any of it.

Um, most cholesterol is made endogenously by your own body and not consumed.

[Shooby]

Mmm...dippy eggs!

[Opti]

I think much of it is genetic when it comes to cholesterol levels. My guess is the government

came up with its guidelines based on what the AMA and other notables say. They are influenced

by food lobbyists as well.

I don't see them as starting diet trends as it is rarely them differing from everyone. The AMA

often leads and food lobbyists and manufacturers follow.

Just one example with no date.

•According to the latest publication of AMA, people with very high risk for CVDs have to maintain the cholesterol amount under 70 mg/dl.

Keeping the cholesterol at this level can stop the development of atherosclerosis and a result like this can be achieved with diet.

This publication does contain exact information about the foods which are supposed to be excluded from the meals and those which are allowed.


•On the other hand, patients with high risk of CVDs have to maintain their cholesterol level under 100mg/dl.

Meals, which are containing pork meat and other meats rich in fats have to exclude from the diet of patients at high and very high risk of CVDs because this type of meat increase the amount of LDL in the organism, leading to the aggravation of the atherosclerotic plaque.

Besides this, fried food are also forbidden, because they are increasing the LDL amount in the organism too.
www.cholesterol-hdl-ldl.com/ama-guidelines-for-hdl-and-ldl-levels-and-laboratory-differences.html

www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/PreventionTreatmentofHighCholesterol/Cooking-for-Lower-Cholesterol_UCM_305630_Article.jsp

(American Heart Association)

[djAdvocate]

Feb 15, 2015 9:34:24 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Feb 12, 2015 21:34:11 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

my wife bashes her brains out to get her cholesterol below 200, and yet she is about 220, consistently.
i do nothing, and mine is right about 200.

don't know what to make of any of it.

Um, most cholesterol is made endogenously by your own body and not consumed.

i have read that, shoob.  your science and my anecdote agree.

[Shooby]

My dad had very high cholesterol. He was thin and in fairly good shape and ate a decent diet. But his was really high. My sister's is high and so is mine.  I had my cholesterol checked in college in a routine exam and it was 279 then.  And, it has been as high as 330.  I had some GI issues which involved some chest like pain so they did a cardiac cath on me. The Cardiologist said I had "PRISTINE arteries". Not a lick of trouble or plague. Then, he wrote me a prescription for Lipitor. I said, if I have had High Cholesterol since I was 18 and decades later have "pristine" arteries, then why in the world would I need to start taking Lipitor. He just kind of shrugged and walked away. My sister has the same issue as well. 

[weltschmerz]

Feb 15, 2015 12:22:17 GMT -5 Shooby said:

My dad had very high cholesterol. He was thin and in fairly good shape and ate a decent diet. But his was really high. My sister's is high and so is mine.  I had my cholesterol checked in college in a routine exam and it was 279 then.  And, it has been as high as 330.  I had some GI issues which involved some chest like pain so they did a cardiac cath on me. The Cardiologist said I had "PRISTINE arteries". Not a lick of trouble or plague. Then, he wrote me a prescription for Lipitor. I said, if I have had High Cholesterol since I was 18 and decades later have "pristine" arteries, then why in the world would I need to start taking Lipitor. He just kind of shrugged and walked away. My sister has the same issue as well. 

I'm pretty sure my arteries aren't chock full to bursting with the plague, either.

[Shooby]

Feb 15, 2015 13:30:02 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Feb 15, 2015 12:22:17 GMT -5 Shooby said:

My dad had very high cholesterol. He was thin and in fairly good shape and ate a decent diet. But his was really high. My sister's is high and so is mine.  I had my cholesterol checked in college in a routine exam and it was 279 then.  And, it has been as high as 330.  I had some GI issues which involved some chest like pain so they did a cardiac cath on me. The Cardiologist said I had "PRISTINE arteries". Not a lick of trouble or plague. Then, he wrote me a prescription for Lipitor. I said, if I have had High Cholesterol since I was 18 and decades later have "pristine" arteries, then why in the world would I need to start taking Lipitor. He just kind of shrugged and walked away. My sister has the same issue as well. 

I'm pretty sure my arteries aren't chock full to bursting with the plague, either.

OK?

[Artemis Windsong]

Feb 15, 2015 12:22:17 GMT -5 Shooby said:

My dad had very high cholesterol. He was thin and in fairly good shape and ate a decent diet. But his was really high. My sister's is high and so is mine.  I had my cholesterol checked in college in a routine exam and it was 279 then.  And, it has been as high as 330.  I had some GI issues which involved some chest like pain so they did a cardiac cath on me. The Cardiologist said I had "PRISTINE arteries". Not a lick of trouble or plague. Then, he wrote me a prescription for Lipitor. I said, if I have had High Cholesterol since I was 18 and decades later have "pristine" arteries, then why in the world would I need to start taking Lipitor. He just kind of shrugged and walked away. My sister has the same issue as well. 

Did you fill the Rx or just blow it off.  I would have filed the Rx somewhere for later use.

I don't know if cholesterol builds up other places of the body.  I know the red rice yeast or whatever that is requires a regular liver function test.

I have been trying to reduce mine for about 3 yrs. now.  Diet cutbacks take time to show up.  When I quit eating pork and processed lunch meats, I saw a good decrease.  Pork was supposed to have been out of my diet since I was a kid but don't recall why.

[Shooby]

  There is only a need to reduce it if it actually is a problem.  They keep defining DOWN the numbers so that they can prescribe more and more statins.  A "normal" cholesterol 25 yrs ago was much higher than what a  "normal" is now.  So what?  Is it really a problem?  Maybe it is or it isn't.  I don't subscribe to it.  If I drop dead as a result it, then so be it.

diaryofalegaldrugdealer.com/the-great-cholesterol-myth/

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Didn't you mean to say "plaque"?

(It would be pretty life-threatening if it was plague).

[jkapp]

Feb 12, 2015 21:34:11 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 12, 2015 21:32:18 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I eat probably the worst diet on the PLANET (cholesterol worries, wise)... and last time I had a blood test, my cholesterol came back with the Doc telling me I needed to RAISE mine, if I wanted to be "healthy average" (he wasn't actually suggesting I raise it... just tongue-in-cheek telling me I was WAY lower than "healthy average").

On the flip side, my Step-Mother (no blood relation, obviously) eats "cholesterol free" everything... and she's got high cholesterol.

my wife bashes her brains out to get her cholesterol below 200, and yet she is about 220, consistently.
i do nothing, and mine is right about 200.

don't know what to make of any of it.

I read that heredity has a lot to do with people's cholestoral levels, and women have more troubles with cholesterol than men...so that might be why your wife has more trouble than you.  Darn sexist cholestrol!!

[jkapp]

Feb 15, 2015 9:34:31 GMT -5 @patstab said:

So I'm having a 2 egg fried egg sandwich for breakfast, eggs fried in a pat of butter. So there.

I've actually had better cholesterol readings since I've switched backed to using butter instead of margarine (even the so called "heart healthy" margarine).

When I remembered my grandmother put butter on everything but had no cholesterol issues, I made the switch

[jkapp]

Feb 15, 2015 16:00:06 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  There is only a need to reduce it if it actually is a problem.  They keep defining DOWN the numbers so that they can prescribe more and more statins.  A "normal" cholesterol 25 yrs ago was much higher than what a  "normal" is now.  So what?  Is it really a problem?  Maybe it is or it isn't.  I don't subscribe to it.  If I drop dead as a result it, then so be it.

diaryofalegaldrugdealer.com/the-great-cholesterol-myth/

To me, this kind of crap doesn't matter. I can beat myself up trying to follow some sort of rigid healthy eating plan, but I know 50-60 years from now, I'll still be dead either way.

So I can either eat the food I like and not worry about counting calories and all that to live another 25 years, or I can eat a bunch of crap I don't like to live another 30 years.  The extra five years just isn't worth it to me

[Shooby]

Well, you are assuming that if you did those things you are going to live 5 more years which may or may not be the case at all. Yes, I agree.  Exercise, rest, eat healthy, maintain your weight. But, I pretty much think you are going to die when you die.

[Opti]

Feb 15, 2015 19:14:48 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Feb 15, 2015 9:34:31 GMT -5 @patstab said:

So I'm having a 2 egg fried egg sandwich for breakfast, eggs fried in a pat of butter. So there.

I've actually had better cholesterol readings since I've switched backed to using butter instead of margarine (even the so called "heart healthy" margarine).

When I remembered my grandmother put butter on everything but had no cholesterol issues, I made the switch  

Margarine generally has trans fats which are not heart friendly, so I'm not surprised.

[mroped]

Had a full exam a couple years ago. My cholesterol was 80/220 or something like that. The doc just about went nuts when she saw the results.
Imediatly she started pushing Lipitor which I turned down and " promised" to change my diet which ofcourse...I didn't!
3 monts later at the next check up was at 70/170 and they kept on telling me to do whatever I did in the last 3 months. Which again was nothing which led me to the conclusion that they have no idea what they are talking about.

That was to me proof that there is just a push for expensive medication to combat an illness that doesn't exist!

[weltschmerz]

Feb 15, 2015 18:52:21 GMT -5 @patstab said:

My doc in Texas said in Europe the allowed cholesterol is way higher then here. He said the pharm companies keep pushing it lower and lower, now would that be self serving would it not? LOL!

I'm trying to avoid the meds like a plaque.

I worked at the same hospital for many years. For my 20th year, they gave me a lovely plague.

[Shooby]

You made a funny!

[Shooby]

Feb 15, 2015 21:05:27 GMT -5 @patstab said:

I eat butter too, I quit margarine some years ago.

Now I need to get totally off diet sodas and drink only water. That is pretty much my last vice.

Pat try Seltzer water. Schweppes makes a very good seltzer water. No sodium, no artificial sweetners. All the FIZZ without the bad stuff.