busymom
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Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
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Post by busymom on Feb 11, 2015 20:54:11 GMT -5
I always find it interesting when those who have no children are experts at parenting.
I think it is a little selfish to NOT have children, and, a little selfish TO have children. Either way, whether you want more freedom, or, to make a "mini me", you are attempting to satisfy a want. I chose to be selfish and have 2 children.
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msventoux
Senior Member
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Post by msventoux on Feb 11, 2015 22:00:55 GMT -5
I fully admit I'm too selfish to have children. I'm far too selfish and screwed up to be a good parent. I'd probably do better than my father did, but I recognize far too many of his very undesirable traits within myself and doubt my ability to fully overcome them and be the type of parent one should be. I've never wanted kids and I'm pretty sure the universe will carry on without any of my progeny running around. I might even get a thank you card from the universe if it has any sense.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 11, 2024 14:26:20 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 0:25:44 GMT -5
I fully admit I'm too selfish to have children. I'm far too selfish and screwed up to be a good parent. I'd probably do better than my father did, but I recognize far too many of his very undesirable traits within myself and doubt my ability to fully overcome them and be the type of parent one should be. I've never wanted kids and I'm pretty sure the universe will carry on without any of my progeny running around. I might even get a thank you card from the universe if it has any sense. Are you my sister?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 3:27:33 GMT -5
Considering some of the people who have children willy nilly with no thought of supporting them or caring for them or civilizing them, they're the selfish ones. I agree. Whatever reason people choose not to have children (and sometimes it's the wish not to pass in undesirable conditions such as severe mental illness that runs in the family), it's their decision. If people have kids only to avoid being labeled selfish by a celibate cleric, I doubt the kids will have a bright future. BTW, my parents were good Roman Catholics and had 5. Only two are still in that church. My brother is a Presbyterian and my sister and I are Episcopalians.
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yogiii
Junior Associate
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Post by yogiii on Feb 12, 2015 7:09:18 GMT -5
Given the scandals surrounding the Catholic church, I don't think they need to be lecturing anyone about what is right vs wrong.
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MJ2.0
Senior Associate
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 12, 2015 9:24:27 GMT -5
Some people make better aunts or uncles than they would parents. My wife and I talk about how nice it will be when our siblings have kids and we can just rile them up and send them home oh you are the WORST! I can see having kids as both selfish and unselfish. It's short-term unselfish and long-term selfish. Does that make as much sense written out as it did in my brain?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 12, 2015 9:36:52 GMT -5
I agree. There's lot of selfish and unselfish reasons to have them or not to have them.
If you have them expecting that they will support you in your old age--selfish. If you have them and delay retirement so that you can help them pay for college--unselfish. If you don't have them because you don't want your lifestyle to be cramped in any way--selfish. If you don't have them because you don't think you could do right by them--unselfish. ...and these aren't mutually exclusive either. Of course, there are degrees of selfishness and unselfishness too.
As for the Catholic thing, there was some conspiracy theory I heard that there was a pope that was assassinated because he was going to allow BC (and take the Church in a more progressive direction). I agree with the PP who said they need to create more Catholics in order to grow the church. I know that, if I weren't already one by default, I wouldn't convert to it. There's been enough crap doled out by the church (the BC BS, pedophile priests, how they treat women) that I've been looking elsewhere for spiritual guidance.
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
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Post by swamp on Feb 12, 2015 9:51:09 GMT -5
How do you equate children with shellfish? They're both tasty with lemon and drawn butter?
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MJ2.0
Senior Associate
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 12, 2015 9:54:19 GMT -5
How do you equate children with shellfish? They're both tasty with lemon and drawn butter? take it easy, Hannibal...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 9:55:34 GMT -5
Doing what is most important to you is selfish. People choosing doing something for their children instead of something for themselves is not unselfish... UNLESS their priority really is themselves... they really want what that thing for themselves more than they want what is for their children...
ie. If a parent saves for college over retirement... it is generally because they prioritize their child's education over their own retirement. This does not make their decision selfless... as they are still doing the thing that THEY prioritize the highest.
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
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Post by swamp on Feb 12, 2015 9:56:11 GMT -5
They're both tasty with lemon and drawn butter? take it easy, Hannibal... I didn't say that I pair them with fava beans and wash them down with a nice Chianti.
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steph08
Junior Associate
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Post by steph08 on Feb 12, 2015 10:07:16 GMT -5
Everything we do is for selfish reasons. We get one life and we want to live it our way. So have kids or don't have kids, it doesn't matter because either decision is selfish because it is what you want and doesn't consider anything else.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 12, 2015 10:33:56 GMT -5
Doing what is most important to you is selfish. People choosing doing something for their children instead of something for themselves is not unselfish... UNLESS their priority really is themselves... they really want what that thing for themselves more than they want what is for their children... ie. If a parent saves for college over retirement... it is generally because they prioritize their child's education over their own retirement. This does not make their decision selfless... as they are still doing the thing that THEY prioritize the highest. I don't know, but I wasn't not talking about SAVING for either/or. I would REALLY like to retire in 10-12 years, but my oldest son will be starting college in about 13 years. You can tell me which choice is selfish or unselfish. There are so many other factors/outside forces involved, I don't know what I will choose in the future or if I will even have a choice.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 12, 2015 11:40:04 GMT -5
The Pope seems to be making alot of assumptions about human nature: That parents automattically love their children that all children are wanted and possibly that it's ALWAYS better to have a child even if it's born into a situation that pretty much gaurentees 'suffering' than to not have a child.
Maybe the Pope should OK marriage for priests if he's that worried about the lack of children being born.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 12, 2015 11:46:41 GMT -5
I agree. There's lot of selfish and unselfish reasons to have them or not to have them. If you have them expecting that they will support you in your old age--selfish. If you have them and delay retirement so that you can help them pay for college--unselfish. If you don't have them because you don't want your lifestyle to be cramped in any way--selfish. If you don't have them because you don't think you could do right by them--unselfish. ...and these aren't mutually exclusive either. Of course, there are degrees of selfishness and unselfishness too. As for the Catholic thing, there was some conspiracy theory I heard that there was a pope that was assassinated because he was going to allow BC (and take the Church in a more progressive direction). I agree with the PP who said they need to create more Catholics in order to grow the church. I know that, if I weren't already one be default, I wouldn't convert to it. There's been enough crap doled out by the church (the BC BS, pedophile priests, how they treat women) that I've been looking elsewhere for spiritual guidance. The Church (and the other Christian Denominations) are loosing the younger population. Yeah, the kids are 'born into the religion' but then drift away once they reach adulthood. They MAY return once they are married and have kids (in an attempt to give their kids some sort of religious training along with the social/cultural/comminuty stuff that goes along with belonging to an organized group). It seems the biggest hurdle for keeping a congregation seems to be making the Church/teachings relevant to today's world. It seems that there are too many 'disconnects' to be overlooked for most adults. The adults may feel it's OK to start their kids out with the religious instruction but once the kids themselves become adults it will become somewhat meaningless.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Feb 12, 2015 11:51:15 GMT -5
::“The choice to not have children is selfish. Life rejuvenates and acquires energy when it multiplies: It is enriched, not impoverished.”::
So the pope has kids right? And expects priests to have kids also? So that they aren't all acting selfishly? The priests "have" kids. Just not in the way that you mean.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 12, 2015 11:52:41 GMT -5
I want to live close to my children because I grew up close to my grandparents and if my kids have kids, I want them to know me and vice versa. Grandparents are unconditional love.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Feb 12, 2015 11:55:07 GMT -5
I want to live close to my children because I grew up close to my grandparents and if my kids have kids, I want them to know me and vice versa. Grandparents are unconditional love. ...if by "unconditional love" you mean a crisp $5 bill on your birthday, and having to sit on their weird, plastic covered couch.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 12, 2015 12:12:46 GMT -5
My cousins and I grew up very close to my grandparents. Even after my parents moved, I spent summers with them.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Feb 12, 2015 12:31:33 GMT -5
I grew up very close to my dad's parents. They were another set of parents and did everything they could to help me succeed.
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justme
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Post by justme on Feb 12, 2015 12:56:03 GMT -5
How do you equate children with shellfish? They're both tasty with lemon and drawn butter? Bahaha! Reminds me of Alton Brown asking if the children are fresh or frozen when they asked if his daughter wanted the children's menu. She's only allowed to have the children's menu when they find a place where are actually on the menu. Lol!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 12, 2015 13:10:36 GMT -5
They're both tasty with lemon and drawn butter? Bahaha! Reminds me of Alton Brown asking if the children are fresh or frozen when they asked if his daughter wanted the children's menu. She's only allowed to have the children's menu when they find a place where are actually on the menu. Lol! She's adopted or something right? Cuz I can't see Alton Brown sleeping with a woman.
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Icelandic Woman
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Post by Icelandic Woman on Feb 12, 2015 14:09:36 GMT -5
I fully admit I'm too selfish to have children. I'm far too selfish and screwed up to be a good parent. I'd probably do better than my father did, but I recognize far too many of his very undesirable traits within myself and doubt my ability to fully overcome them and be the type of parent one should be. I've never wanted kids and I'm pretty sure the universe will carry on without any of my progeny running around. I might even get a thank you card from the universe if it has any sense. Are you my sister? And mine?? Cause so much !!!
I am not Catholic but this is very disappointing to hear from him. I really thought he was finally moving the church into the 21st century.
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imawino
Junior Associate
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Post by imawino on Feb 12, 2015 15:21:20 GMT -5
Well, it's stupid - but not nearly the stupidest thing I've heard a Catholic say.
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Lizard Queen
Senior Associate
103/2024
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
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Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 12, 2015 16:19:27 GMT -5
I agree. There's lot of selfish and unselfish reasons to have them or not to have them. If you have them expecting that they will support you in your old age--selfish. If you have them and delay retirement so that you can help them pay for college--unselfish. If you don't have them because you don't want your lifestyle to be cramped in any way--selfish. If you don't have them because you don't think you could do right by them--unselfish. ...and these aren't mutually exclusive either. Of course, there are degrees of selfishness and unselfishness too. As for the Catholic thing, there was some conspiracy theory I heard that there was a pope that was assassinated because he was going to allow BC (and take the Church in a more progressive direction). I agree with the PP who said they need to create more Catholics in order to grow the church. I know that, if I weren't already one be default, I wouldn't convert to it. There's been enough crap doled out by the church (the BC BS, pedophile priests, how they treat women) that I've been looking elsewhere for spiritual guidance. The Church (and the other Christian Denominations) are loosing the younger population. Yeah, the kids are 'born into the religion' but then drift away once they reach adulthood. They MAY return once they are married and have kids (in an attempt to give their kids some sort of religious training along with the social/cultural/comminuty stuff that goes along with belonging to an organized group). It seems the biggest hurdle for keeping a congregation seems to be making the Church/teachings relevant to today's world. It seems that there are too many 'disconnects' to be overlooked for most adults. The adults may feel it's OK to start their kids out with the religious instruction but once the kids themselves become adults it will become somewhat meaningless. Yes, this is very much like how I feel.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Feb 12, 2015 17:10:33 GMT -5
I want to live close to my children because I grew up close to my grandparents and if my kids have kids, I want them to know me and vice versa. Grandparents are unconditional love. My parents and in-laws are like this to my children. It's wonderful to see their relationships. I am personally very close to my mom's dad, and was close with her mom too before she passed. My dad's parents, however, could jump off a cliff for all I care. But that's what you get when you are a terrible person. I've not seen them in a couple of years and I won't allow my children to see them. My children do spend time with my maternal grandfather and they love him dearly.
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Feb 13, 2015 6:50:29 GMT -5
Up until this statement I have been very impressed with this pope's statements & actions and I am NOT Catholic.
Some people are just NOT wired to be proper , nurturing parents.,
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cael
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Post by cael on Feb 13, 2015 8:32:27 GMT -5
On the one hand, yes it is "selfish" because in choosing to not have kids, you are thinking about what you want your life to be like - thinking about yourself can be used as a definition of selfish and I don't see thinking about yourself as a bad thing in most cases.
However, since the hypothetical children of people who choose not to have them don't exist, I absolutely don't see it as selfish because children that don't exist can't be counted as people/entities to be hurt or affected by the hypothetical parents' decisions not to have them, ya know? I think it's shitty that people find a reason to shame other people for not wanting kids... it isn't for everyone, who cares. And for people who have kids and love it? Great for them too, they shouldn't be shamed by non-parents for wanting kids. Live and let live.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 9:04:51 GMT -5
I was reminded of this discussion when a friend posted on FB from her trip to Disney World; at one point she told me that she and her husband didn't have kids because she's got neurofibromatosis (the "Elephant Man's disease"). She gets treated for it and you don't really know by looking at her that she has it, but apparently the disease can go crazy during pregnancy and the results are unpredictable. I guess the Pope would call her "selfish". I thought it was a wise decision in a sad situation.
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Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Feb 13, 2015 9:07:52 GMT -5
It's not surprising the pope said this, given that the doctrine of the catholic church teaches that children are blessings and conception is not to be prevented. How that filters down to individual members of the church and their own personal convictions is another matter.
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