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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 17:37:21 GMT -5
If that was it I doubt women approved to 26 would be accurate... Unless there are some wild misconceptions still at play
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 12, 2015 17:45:54 GMT -5
If that was it I doubt women approved to 26 would be accurate... Unless there are some wild misconceptions still at play This is a moot point. They can test women to see if they harbor the HPV. They can't test men so they have to make assumptions.
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Feb 12, 2015 17:46:03 GMT -5
According to the CDC you can still get it if you are sexually active.
Is the vaccine still effective if you have had sexual intercourse?
A: Even if someone has already had sex, they should still get HPV vaccine. While HPV infection usually happens soon after someone has sex for the first time, a person might not be exposed to any or all of the HPV types that are in the vaccine; males and females in the age groups recommended for vaccination are likely to get at least some protection from the vaccine.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 12, 2015 18:01:22 GMT -5
Why is it approved in males only till age 15? It isn't. In any case, about half the population harbours HPV. You want to vaccinate them before they become sexually active.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 18:07:35 GMT -5
Gardasil 9 is a vaccine approved for use in females ages 9 through 26 and males ages 9 through 15.
From an earlier cdc post...
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 12, 2015 18:21:50 GMT -5
Gardasil 9 is a vaccine approved for use in females ages 9 through 26 and males ages 9 through 15. From an earlier cdc post... GARDASIL is the only human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine that helps protect against 4 types of HPV. In girls and young women ages 9 to 26, GARDASIL helps protect against 2 types of HPV that cause about 75% of cervical cancer cases, and 2 more types that cause about 90% of genital warts cases. In boys and young men ages 9 to 26, GARDASIL helps protect against approximately 90% of genital warts cases.
www.gardasil.com/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 18:39:04 GMT -5
That's Guardasil 4, not the newer Guardasil 9...
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quince
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Post by quince on Feb 12, 2015 19:13:47 GMT -5
They were conservative in approving it for males. I think when the first one came out it was approved for girls only and people had to work at it to get it approved for boys? I would assume that they test the populations that it would be most beneficial for first, then expand testing after they've gotten the first phase through.
ETA: probably not doing extensive testing on the side effects of the vaccine on people ages 65 and up, for instance.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 12, 2015 21:43:40 GMT -5
People know a lot of 26 yr old male virgins? Who has never even fooled around a little bit? You can get HPV from sexual play, not just intercourse. Again, you have to vaccinate them before they become sexually active.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 22:32:23 GMT -5
People know a lot of 26 yr old male virgins? Who has never even fooled around a little bit? You can get HPV from sexual play, not just intercourse. Again, you have to vaccinate them before they become sexually active. You know a lot of 26 year old female virgins? .... If sexual activity is the issue, I'm not sure why there would be a difference...?
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Feb 13, 2015 8:20:59 GMT -5
People know a lot of 26 yr old male virgins? Who has never even fooled around a little bit? You can get HPV from sexual play, not just intercourse. Again, you have to vaccinate them before they become sexually active. You know a lot of 26 year old female virgins? .... If sexual activity is the issue, I'm not sure why there would be a difference...? Because you can test women and see if they are one of the lucky ones that haven't managed to contract the virus yet. Or perhaps they don't have one of the strains the vaccine can protect them from. There is currently no test for a male carrier (males are also asymptomatic, further making it harder to tell if they are a carrier)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 8:25:02 GMT -5
Do they test them before giving them the vaccine? I don't think so. And as someone posted, they still give it even if they have had sex/ might have one strain...
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 13, 2015 9:09:23 GMT -5
Ummmm, ok I have to ask.
A few peeps have stated there is not test for male carriers. Ok, I get where it may be a bit - easier to test women but why can't we test men? Wouldn't it be present in their bodily fluids as well?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 13, 2015 9:11:33 GMT -5
They can't test men so they have to make assumptions
They really need to get moving on that. DH was so upset that he didn't know and passed it onto me.
He's all for vaccinating the girls and would be if we had sons too.
I was thinking about this last night and I think pretty much any anti-vaccination argument comes down to risk tolerance. If you haven't had the joy of having abnormal pap smears, cloposcopies, multiple biopsies and a LEEP and then spending the next several years having to go to your gyno every six months then the vaccination doesn't appear worth it. If you have gone thru all the above and know the vaccination could have solved a lot of problems then you're willing to get it for your kids.
The vaccination came out shortly after I was diagnosed and at the time they said if you already had it you couldn't get the vaccination. I ended up marrying DH so it became a moot point.
If I can get the girls vaccinated BEFORE they become sexually active that solves a lot of problems. I'm hoping by then medicine will have finally created a test for HPV in men.
Could they be in the 10% of women who get cervical cancer that don't have HPV, of course I cannot control the universe. But if I can give them the option to not end up with what I have it's worth it.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 13, 2015 10:28:01 GMT -5
Ummmm, ok I have to ask.
A few peeps have stated there is not test for male carriers. Ok, I get where it may be a bit - easier to test women but why can't we test men? Wouldn't it be present in their bodily fluids as well? HPV tends to hang out in the cells, not the fluid. The same scraping that they do with a pap is how they get the cells to determine whether or not you have HPV. How many males to do you think will stand still for a doctor putting a scraper up their urethra to get cells?
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 13, 2015 10:31:54 GMT -5
Ummmm, ok I have to ask.
A few peeps have stated there is not test for male carriers. Ok, I get where it may be a bit - easier to test women but why can't we test men? Wouldn't it be present in their bodily fluids as well? HPV tends to hang out in the cells, not the fluid. The same scraping that they do with a pap is how they get the cells to determine whether or not you have HPV. How many males to do you think will stand still for a doctor putting a scraper up their urethra to get cells? So to be kinda explicit a blood test or semen analysis won't show the cells?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 13, 2015 10:32:27 GMT -5
Do they test them before giving them the vaccine? I don't think so. And as someone posted, they still give it even if they have had sex/ might have one strain... That is the reason why there is such an earlier age suggested. They want to get ALL kids in before they think of becoming sexually active, and get them protected first. The testing is not inexpensive, so doing the vaccination series first may be cost effective.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 13, 2015 10:33:21 GMT -5
HPV tends to hang out in the cells, not the fluid. The same scraping that they do with a pap is how they get the cells to determine whether or not you have HPV. How many males to do you think will stand still for a doctor putting a scraper up their urethra to get cells? So to be kinda explicit a blood test or semen analysis won't show the cells? HPV lives in epithelial cells...so no. In blood, you have red and white blood cells. In semen, you have sperm. The semen might contain HPV, but it is impossible to see, and difficult to fractionate because you are talking about a very small hunk of DN that is well diluted. So you look in the cells where they live and grow. The epithelial cells burst to release virus to infect other cells...and people. i believe they use immunofluorescence of your epithelial cells to determine strain. So all the virus is congregated in one place and it becomes visual with the right staining.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 10:33:35 GMT -5
Does it matter? I mean do they really test for HPV before they vaccinate if someone has been sexually active? Is that the protocol?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 10:42:01 GMT -5
Do they test them before giving them the vaccine? I don't think so. And as someone posted, they still give it even if they have had sex/ might have one strain... That is the reason why there is such an earlier age suggested. They want to get ALL kids in before they think of becoming sexually active, and get them protected first. The testing is not inexpensive, so doing the vaccination series first may be cost effective. This doesn't really answer the question of why Guardasil 9 is approved through age 26 for women, but age 15 for males though...
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 13, 2015 10:43:02 GMT -5
Does it matter? I mean do they really test for HPV before they vaccinate if someone has been sexually active? Is that the protocol? It does when you look at scale of expense. If the person is already infected with multiple strains (and you can be infected by more than one strain) then spending money for a vaccination that is not inexpensive THAT IS NOT GOING TO WORK is a waste of money. Someone pays, whether it is the government, the insurance company or the parent. So is testing everyone for the virus, as it is not an inexpensive test. So get them in before they THINK of being sexually active.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 13, 2015 10:47:50 GMT -5
That is the reason why there is such an earlier age suggested. They want to get ALL kids in before they think of becoming sexually active, and get them protected first. The testing is not inexpensive, so doing the vaccination series first may be cost effective. This doesn't really answer the question of why Guardasil 9 is approved through age 26 for women, but age 15 for males though... Yes, it does. By 26 most women have had a Pap smear. And contrary to what many think, some women are virgins well into their 20s. ~75% of males have lost their virginity by 17.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Feb 13, 2015 10:50:17 GMT -5
Does it matter? I mean do they really test for HPV before they vaccinate if someone has been sexually active? Is that the protocol? Protocol, no. Can they test a woman? Yes. Is it much more cost effective to vaccinate before being sexually active? Absolutely. FWIW, I was infected with HPV by my first sexual partner. If this had been available to me, I'd have taken it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 10:52:16 GMT -5
Some men are virgins well into their 20s. So, is the approval based on the idea that women will be virgins longer? I think that's erroneous.
And nd the can be tested angle only works if they Actully ARE being tested... I haven't seen anything suggesting testing before vaccination is the protocol...?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 13, 2015 10:53:19 GMT -5
This doesn't really answer the question of why Guardasil 9 is approved through age 26 for women, but age 15 for males though
My guess is it is based on statistical analysis of sexually active adults.
Your doctor has to pretty much rely on you reporting if you are sexually active or not. I would guess in clinical trials that the age of 15 was around the age when boys started reporting they are sexually active a lot more than girls did.
They apparently had enough self reporting virgins to extend the age to 26 for women.
Could people be lying? Of course that is always a risk factor when you need to rely on self reporting, but since we can't read minds you have to take what the participants say at face value.
There is also the possibility that the decision was made based on extensive review of medical records. After data mining they came to the conclusion that most boys become sexually active by 15-16 and girls have a much wider time frame before sexually activity. Which does again rely on you having been truthful when the records were made. It's one of the pitfalls of having to deal with humans.
The vaccine can potentially be helpful if you are already active but the real benefit is to get it BEFORE you are active. Big whoop if I got the vaccination now, I'm already carrying at least one strain of cancer causing HPV.
If it had been available before I became active it would have made my life A LOT easier.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Feb 13, 2015 11:01:59 GMT -5
Some men are virgins well into their 20s. So, is the approval based on the idea that women will be virgins longer? I think that's erroneous. And nd the can be tested angle only works if they Actully ARE being tested... I haven't seen anything suggesting testing before vaccination is the protocol...? In short, approval processes are complicated. Approval for your target group (women and pre-sexual activity males) is the priority. You use your resources to get that done. Then your product is on-market and helping people. Then you move to your secondary market (older males) that would benefit from the product and get your product recommendation range expanded. Just because it's only recommended for males up to 15 now DOES NOT mean that it isn't safe for older males. It most likely means they haven't gotten through the red-tape that far yet.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 13, 2015 11:46:52 GMT -5
Some men are virgins well into their 20s. So, is the approval based on the idea that women will be virgins longer? I think that's erroneous. And nd the can be tested angle only works if they Actully ARE being tested... I haven't seen anything suggesting testing before vaccination is the protocol...? Again, if you are not sexually active, you do not get HPV. The point is to try to get the kids vaccinated BEFORE they become sexually active. I think you are giving a circular argument, Oped. If you are not sexually active, then you don't have HPV and being tested is not necessary. This is what they are trying to do, get the kids before they are sexually active. If you ARE sexually active, you may or may not have missed the boat with regards to HPV. You might be lucky and not be infected. But the longer you are sexually active, the more likely you are to pick up the virus. And as some have posted, they have been infected by their first partner. The goal is to try to avoid this altogether.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 12:02:35 GMT -5
Some men are virgins well into their 20s. So, is the approval based on the idea that women will be virgins longer? I think that's erroneous. And nd the can be tested angle only works if they Actully ARE being tested... I haven't seen anything suggesting testing before vaccination is the protocol...? Again, if you are not sexually active, you do not get HPV. The point is to try to get the kids vaccinated BEFORE they become sexually active. I think you are giving a circular argument, Oped. If you are not sexually active, then you don't have HPV and being tested is not necessary. This is what they are trying to do, get the kids before they are sexually active. If you ARE sexually active, you may or may not have missed the boat with regards to HPV. You might be lucky and not be infected. But the longer you are sexually active, the more likely you are to pick up the virus. And as some have posted, they have been infected by their first partner. The goal is to try to avoid this altogether. and how many teens, sitting there with their parent, are going to say they're sexually active?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 13, 2015 12:11:35 GMT -5
and how many teens, sitting there with their parent, are going to say they're sexually active So we shouldn't vaccinate then? We should just throw our hands in the air and say it's not worth it?
My girls will get it between the ages of 9-11 as recommended. At that point in time I am still in charge of their healthcare and I will make the decision. I would freaking hope my girls aren't active that early.
If you decided that the risks weren't worth the benefits then that is your call, but I don't get the argument that vaccinating isn't worth it because you can't 100% know for sure if your kid is active or not.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Feb 13, 2015 12:12:03 GMT -5
Again, if you are not sexually active, you do not get HPV. The point is to try to get the kids vaccinated BEFORE they become sexually active. I think you are giving a circular argument, Oped. If you are not sexually active, then you don't have HPV and being tested is not necessary. This is what they are trying to do, get the kids before they are sexually active. If you ARE sexually active, you may or may not have missed the boat with regards to HPV. You might be lucky and not be infected. But the longer you are sexually active, the more likely you are to pick up the virus. And as some have posted, they have been infected by their first partner. The goal is to try to avoid this altogether. and how many teens, sitting there with their parent, are going to say they're sexually active? I think that largely depends on the parent.
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