deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 5, 2011 18:36:00 GMT -5
This is a tought one but worthy of discussion here if anyone wants to touch it. Iknow it's from al Jazeer but it brings up a interesting topic..why? ------------------------------------------------------------- english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/03/201135115850632729.html#------------------------------------------------- Opinion Why is Israel aid exempt? As US fiscal conservatives cut food programmes for poor children, military aid for Israel is left untouched. MJ Rosenberg Last Modified: 05 Mar 2011 13:05 GMT US military aid should be conditional on Israel stopping settlement expansion, writer says [GALLO/GETTY] Once upon a time, social security was considered the "third rail" of American politics. The "third rail" is the train track that carries the high-voltage power; touching it means instant death. The "third rail" metaphor has for decades been applied to social security, a government program so popular with the American public that proposing any changes in it would mean political death to the politician. No more. Although social security is as popular as ever, politicians routinely propose changes in the program — including privatisation and means testing. While the proposals usually go nowhere, and rightly so, the politicians who support them live to fight another day. Today, with those massive deficits and the astronomical national debt, not even social security is sacrosanct. Few, if any, government programs are. But US aid to Israel is. In fact, the $3bn Israel aid package is the new third rail of American politics: touch it and die. It is also the one program that liberals, conservatives, Democrats, Republicans and tea partiers all agree should not sustain even a dollar in cuts. Actually, that is something of a mis-statement. These various parties and factions do not agree that the $3bn Israel aid package is sacred. They just say that they do because a powerful lobby, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), makes clear to them that touching the aid package will mean big trouble for them in the next election" ------------------------------------------------------- {click on link to read article}
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Mar 5, 2011 18:58:50 GMT -5
Israel is the lone democratic government in the middle east. Cutting military aid would weaken their ability to defend themselves in my opinion. We have always offered support to governments that are democratic. I don't think anyone under democratic rule would want to see them fall. I have seen several numbers on the military aid we give Israel, every where from 1.6 billion to 3 billion but I do not know which ones are correct. But I believe in keeping it up. I would like to know specifically which group of children we have cut assistance to mentioned in the report.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 5, 2011 20:37:36 GMT -5
Don't you think an Israel-related opinion piece from a notoriously anti-Semitic, terrorist-supporting news outlet is a bit suspect? Do you also read the KKK's news about black history month, and Louis Farrakhan's commentary on the Jewish holidays?
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Mar 5, 2011 21:04:09 GMT -5
Just like anything Fox or anyone else on the right when they say anything about Obama.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 6, 2011 0:38:47 GMT -5
Don't you think an Israel-related opinion piece from a notoriously anti-Semitic, terrorist-supporting news outlet is a bit suspect? Do you also read the KKK's news about black history month, and Louis Farrakhan's commentary on the Jewish holidays? Ed , Al Jazzier has become a respected media piece for the Islamic part of the world. They criticize many of the Islamic extremes, they have been banned in many of the totalitarian regimes, their reporting in Egypt before Mubarak was removed was curtailed and then thrown out of the country. As far as their bias, think Fox, the right, MS NBC to the left, the NY times, suggested left same with the Washington Post. Their reports on the happenings here in the Middle East are current and right on. As far as a opinion piece by a writer, that is up to the reader to consider, discuss, refute. This particular piece, it brings up a thought as have some other articles I have posted. Discuss them. If I posted a article from the Jerusalem Post would you say that was fine? What if it was a critical one on their current leadership? I am not posting anti Semitic articles. Actually, I find none of that there, AL Jazzier. Criticism of the Israeli policies toward the Palestinians on some but that issue is just a small part of what they post, they touch a lot, to me are a credible source, credible media out let for news. I am afraid the one that would be giving me the propaganda would be your posts, they I don't find credible, just slanted in a crude way with no back up or little true facts on the subject mentioned.
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ktunes
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Post by ktunes on Mar 6, 2011 1:45:00 GMT -5
the us and israel, as well as a few other nations are tied together by fate...it goes deeper than present day politics
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Mar 6, 2011 7:36:52 GMT -5
Israel is a liability the US can no longer afford! Cut Israel and strenghten SS.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 6, 2011 7:40:59 GMT -5
Why is military aid to Israel exempt?
Because the Pro Israel Lobbyists exert so much power and influence in Washington DC...and have the Democrats in the House and Senate in their back pockets..
Any Republican who has tried to cut this funding for Israel including John McCain has been labeled as anti-semitic..but who knows more Republicans may try again because supposedly Obama has said everything is on the so called table...but we don't know what goes on under the table..
IMHO....P.I. ( Not based on Islamic Media/Propaganda, or Anti-Semite articles about Israel...just telling it like it is, and will be in this country. Because we need Israel as an ally in the Middle East to share intelligence in that region. But are we getting the bang for the buck?? Who knows?? But I doubt it..)
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Mar 6, 2011 9:15:38 GMT -5
I think aid should not be stopped,but cut back quite a bit. We simply can't afford the foreign aid we have been giving. I also think we should stop the blind support for Israel. There are times it is ok to disagree.They expect our support and for us to subsidize all their decisions. WhileI agree they are our friend and ally, these expectiations are not healthy,IMO------"The Obama Administration will put forth new peace initiatives only if Israel wants it to, said Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman in his first comprehensive interview on foreign policy since taking office. "Believe me, America accepts all our decisions," Lieberman told the Russian daily Moskovskiy Komosolets." www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/lieberman-u-s-will-accept-any-israeli-policy-decision-1.274559
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Mar 6, 2011 9:35:24 GMT -5
We don't need a mid east ally that causes more trouble than they are worth!
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Mar 6, 2011 11:58:30 GMT -5
The opinion piece in Al Jazeera raises very good points. I'm totally with the writer (and the Pauls) on cutting this. 3billion is a bit excessive. They have a thriving economy, let them buy military goods with their own money.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 6, 2011 12:09:43 GMT -5
The opinion piece in Al Jazeera raises very good points. I'm totally with the writer (and the Pauls) on cutting this. 3billion is a bit excessive. They have a thriving economy, let them buy military goods with their own money. I think it raises good points too, thus my posting. Just because a article, opinion piece migh raise uncomfortable questions, as this one does for me, is not a reason to not post, not discuss and consider. I come up with many articles that make accusations that i don't know the facts of, many times suggested that they are propaganda pieces to rile one side or the other and leave those alone. This one and a few others I have posted, seem to just give ideas that while I might question and find fault with, do raise points to consider.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Mar 6, 2011 12:25:36 GMT -5
Well, dezi, you could also say that Bernie Madoff's business ethics were of high quality compared to that of many Russian businessmen.
But that doesn't make it a compliment.
Or do you believe that quality is defined by taking a poll?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 6, 2011 12:50:04 GMT -5
Well, dezi, you could also say that Bernie Madoff's business ethics were of high quality compared to that of many Russian businessmen. But that doesn't make it a compliment. Or do you believe that quality is defined by taking a poll? Verrip, seriously I don't get what you are driving at, Madoff was a douche bag, a criminal and i believe will be in Prison till he dies..which is not something that happens to often in our society. What i posted was a opinion piece by a person who has a thought, something that readers might want to consider, discuss, question, agree with all or pars or just dismiss for what ever reasons they want to give. I don't dismiss any opinion pieces because they may be uncomfortable, even in rare cases sick untrue ones, example would be "The Protocols of Zion " written as a false suggestion of Jewish financial interests in controlling the world by the tzar's secret police, it gives the reader and historian studying it the feelings of the times, the fears of the Tsarist government at the time and the feelings and fears of Jewish money interests at the time. It's still brought out today as anti Zionist use it to exploit their anti Zionist, ant Israeli, ant Jewish feelings. The same with Hitlers, "Mien Kaumph". If ever a questions arises as to how could the event, the Holocaust have happened, to read that piece of garbage, if one can get through it, it is all there in black and white , spelled out , the feelings of the maniac if he ever got the power , which he did, to carry out.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 6, 2011 12:58:59 GMT -5
I like Al Jazeera, as well, Dez, and read it often. There's often interesting news there about which we don't hear. I've always found them to be pretty reasonable, and truthful in their coverage.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 6, 2011 13:09:21 GMT -5
I like Al Jazeera, as well, Dez, and read it often. There's often interesting news there about which we don't hear. I've always found them to be pretty reasonable, and truthful in their coverage. Glad to hear another in the support, there is no doubt they have a point of view, even a agenda at times. Some of their reports I have to go to other sources to double Check , the other point of view. Example, a article of Jewish settlers destroying Arab Palestinians crops, plantings, by burning , spraying with kerosene, etc, and burning homes. There is also the other side of these are false reports to just put the settlers in a bad light , propaganda. On those, can't get a reading on so ignore...not there, not verified, possible a big part are acts done by those complaining...possible not, have to ignore and move on. Debka too, interesting but they too have their agenda I beleive.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Mar 7, 2011 10:23:38 GMT -5
Just like anything Fox or anyone else on the right when they say anything about Obama. Keep going to your meetings about how bad conservatives are, and let us know what you learned today. Blah, blah, blah, Republicans bad, Democrats good no matter what they do or don't do. Blah, blah, blah.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Mar 7, 2011 10:31:15 GMT -5
As to the OP, Israel is our ally. If somebody attacks them, I would hope that our country would come their aid if need be. They are already under constant attack by people that want them destroyed. We could cut aid, but in the end it'd most likely still cost us in both lives and money when we go to help and rebuild their country after somebody attempts to destroy it.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 7, 2011 14:38:24 GMT -5
Including all the Islamic theocracies in the Middle East, the terrorist-led Palestinian Authority and the Democratic Party. Israel has a tough row to hoe...
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Post by magichat on Mar 7, 2011 16:33:10 GMT -5
Alliances with none free trade with all.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 7, 2011 16:56:13 GMT -5
We shouldn't be aiding at all. WHY? Because they don't pay taxes to the US, that should be good enough. If I go to Israel I should have every right as a citizen their does.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 7, 2011 16:58:21 GMT -5
So you believe you should have citizenship rights in every country to which we give aid? Or are you singling out Israel for some reason?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 7, 2011 17:00:06 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, the economy demands that everything be on the table for discussion, and that would include aid to Israel.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 7, 2011 17:00:38 GMT -5
So you believe you should have citizenship rights in every country to which we give aid? Or are you singling out Israel for some reason? Nope, I say everyone since we police the world. Israel was just in the topic. If my tax dollars go into something, I want the rights darn it.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 7, 2011 17:02:36 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, the economy demands that everything be on the table for discussion, and that would include aid to Israel. That is fine with me as long as they add in aid to me(mine mine mine) for a couple million. I mean that isn't much, all I want is a couple. I will put it right back into this economy I swear.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 7, 2011 17:05:27 GMT -5
Hee! No kidding, reason. I've always found it difficult to understand how all these countries are getting all this aid and the freaking government sends me a bill! ;D
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 8, 2011 13:32:34 GMT -5
Helen Thomas, is that you?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 8, 2011 13:47:16 GMT -5
My husband listens to AlZeera when overseas too, he said its a good news source. As far as Israel stop and think about it. What if someone came into the US are carved out a bunch of the land and started giving it back to Indiana solely, yes I know we have some reservations. But gave a huge chunk, then they kept trying to grab more. And the people that had been living there that lost it had lived on it for generations somehow I don't think you would like that. How many countries have been overrun, had the land turned over dozens of times from one country or people to another but then suddenly you want to resettle people from 2000 years ago, think that might be a problem or not? I think nobody wanted the jews and the rest of the world was strong enough to put them back there after the war so did. It's been a problem ever since and will always be a problem did they curb some of their excesses too. Thereis plenty of blame to go around and yep, I'm tired of supporting them too. That's all one of my tenants talks about, the jewish homeland, yada, yada, yada, well go live there if you are so concerned about it. Jeez people. And yes I am familiar with the bibical accounts and prophecies also. Indiana wants me, But I can't come back now....... Indians.....Indiana......confusion....confusion....
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 8, 2011 15:22:17 GMT -5
My husband listens to AlZeera when overseas too, he said its a good news source. As far as Israel stop and think about it. What if someone came into the US are carved out a bunch of the land and started giving it back to the Indians solely, yes I know we have some reservations. But gave a huge chunk, then they kept trying to grab more. And the people that had been living there that lost it had lived on it for generations somehow I don't think you would like that. How many countries have been overrun, had the land turned over dozens of times from one country or people to another but then suddenly you want to resettle people from 2000 years ago, think that might be a problem or not? I think nobody wanted the Jews and the rest of the world was strong enough to put them back there after the war so did. It's been a problem ever since and will always be a problem did they curb some of their excesses too. Theres plenty of blame to go around and yep, I'm tired of supporting them too. That's all one of my tenants talks about, the Jewish homeland, yada, yada, yada, well go live there if you are so concerned about it. Jeez people. And yes I am familiar with the biblical accounts and prophecies also. There are good points made..why a special place, why here, who the hell are they...why still here for g-ds sake. Truth is, for what ever reason , there was a group that was put upon ever since the final dispersal under the Romans. [Just for a side line, of all the uprisings of peoples against the top Military power of the time, only these people actually caused such destruction of this mighty power, a people who future peoples considered a when it came to defense and fighting ability, that they, the Romans completely destroyed the Capital, killing millions, then tearing down stone by stone the buildings and temple there, and dispersed the few survivors and forbidding them to come back. They were very P at these stiff necked ones.{think only Carthage suffered as much, rumor was there they sowed the lands with salt} Once dispersed, the history. After 500 years as citizens, Spain. 1492, kicked them all out or burnt those who were caught still practicing their religion. Same in, France, Portugal, England , I think only the Netherlands allowed some in. and after being invited in by the German , Polish, Russian leaders, because of their business accomplishments, it started all over again, the Pogroms in Russia, "Pale of Settlement"{Google it}..and naturally the final indignity , the Germans, Nazi's, the helping of by the Ukrainians, Poles, the Baltic states, Ukrainians and all the countries of Europe, France too, how many did they put on the trains, the slaughter from the youngest to the oldest, all the sexes..Damn thing is, they, these damn Jews, didn't just dry up and go away, and since after wards, the second WW, still no safe place to go, a bit of guilt tempered with not here they will come, we get Israel. Here they are, here they will stay and if it is to be again, well 200 plus Nucs say, if we go, you will remember us. For a tiny space, very few people actually, about 6 million here another 6/8 million spread around they sure do some remarkable things, do some googling. Inventions, the arts, music, theater,{Fiddler on the roof} literature, patents, discoveries to benefit so many, food in many cases, Chicken soup, none better, Vocabulary, so enriching, Yiddish words that add so much to our ways of communication, see schmuck, putz, mashagoona,schlemiel, and on and on. And as the Romans found out, still SOB's when it comes to the fighting ability and as far as our country, even with differences in agendas as countries will have, a proven friend, in a very sensitive area of the world,, the oil, the oil, as much as out # 1 ally, the Brits and with their cut backs in defense, this one is at least still a formidable power that is there to help if needed. If they weren't there, do you think it would all of a sudden be 'kumbaya ' all over the region toward us, with the brother hood, the religion differences . I suggest not in a million years.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 8, 2011 15:56:32 GMT -5
The Jewish people have their homeland now. They were offered, by the Russians, a homeland long ago. They rejected it. They wanted a specific place, and they got it. Now, they expect us to help them keep it ... for how long? They got what they wanted. I believe it's time for them to take full responsibility for it, personally.
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