henryclay
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 5, 2011 19:03:37 GMT -5
Posts: 3,685
|
Post by henryclay on Mar 5, 2011 10:30:48 GMT -5
It is Saturday and the boards will be slow. It's a good time to take stock of foreign policy over the years. Maybe Obama DID inherit some problems. Every president does. It would be a good thing if he were more up to solving some of the important ones. "...........Obama bowed to the king of Saudi Arabia and Bush kowtowed. In the aftermath of the 9/11 jihad, President Bush made strong statements to the United Nations, the Congress and the American public. However behind the limelight he engaged the Saudis, locus of the enablers and financers of the 9/11 terrorism in a series of meetings with U.S. officials, on September 19 and 20, 2001, in Washington D.C., followed by talks with with U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in Riyadh on October 4, 2001, and with Vice President Dick Cheney later that year to discuss joint efforts to “combat terrorism”. Further, by September 20, the President expunged the link between Islam and terrorism. We were told that we were confronting a “fringe” which had hijacked a noble religion. By April of 2002 Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia visited with the President at his ranch at Crawford Texas. That Southern hospitality to tyrants was repeated in April 2005, and reciprocated as scores of United States officials, including the President and Vice President were dined and not wined at the Royal Ranch in Jenadriyah or at the royal farm in Rawdhat Khuraim, near Riyadh. It's a good read and can be seen at: www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.8872/pub_detail.asp
|
|
|
Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 5, 2011 10:50:33 GMT -5
...can't we blame him for not helping turn this ship around?
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,386
|
Post by billisonboard on Mar 5, 2011 10:57:48 GMT -5
Good read to this end: "Conclusion: It is a counterproductive cop out to blame everything on Obama. ..."
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 5, 2011 11:03:16 GMT -5
The problem of dependence on Middle East oil is one every President since Eisenhower has had to deal with. However, the problem of foreign policy weakness-- which is itself a provocation-- is one liberal Presidents choose for themselves. It is one that Reagan inherited when he had to rebuild the military, it is one that Bush inherited when we were attacked on 9.11.01 -- 5 to 7 years in the planning, 9 months into the Bush Presidency. And it's one that Obama has accelerated and chosen deliberately. When a nuclear weapon is detonated over an American city, or the entire country goes dark after an nuclear EMP attack-- we'll have Obama to thank for it. He abandoned missile defense, and he has stated that he believes weakening the United States- disarming us to the level of our muslim brothers in the Arab world where peace reigns is a good idea.
|
|
|
Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 5, 2011 11:12:43 GMT -5
<<< When a nuclear weapon is detonated over an American city, or the entire country goes dark after an nuclear EMP attack-- we'll have Obama to thank for it. >>> ...which is akin to the complacency of Mrs. Bennett in "Pride and Prejudice" when she says, "well, when [Jane] dies an old maid with a broken heart, then [Bingley] will be sorry for what he did." (hey, what can I say? we watch chick flicks in our house... you can find some really good one-liners in them...) ETA: <<< he has stated that he believes weakening the United States- disarming us to the level of our muslim brothers in the Arab world where peace reigns is a good idea. >>> ...bad idea in my book...
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 5, 2011 11:16:30 GMT -5
I disagree with the conclusion. My conclusion is that we should not blame Obama completely. However, if you've got a problem and you look at our nation's leadership, you have to make a judgment call: Is this, or are these, leader(s) part of the problem, or part of the solution? Are they working to solve the problem, and are their solutions effective, or is what they are trying to do exacerbating the problem?
In every instance, and there are NO exceptions-- President Obama is making things worse. He's so bad, so ineffectual a leader that some of us have had to dig into the reason why and we've had to admit to ourselves that the reason Obama's failures are so profound is that he is doing it on purpose.
There's no other explanation. He is naive- but he's not that naive. He isn't crazy, or stupid. So, we're left with the truth: He is a committed hard core leftist- a closed-minded ideologue that truly believes the kooky 1960's utopian vision can be brought about by his leadership.
Like every narcisistic megalomaniac before him he doesn't look back at history and see ideas that have been tried and have failed, but he sees ideas that haven't worked because HE wasn't the one implementing them.
He sees that we didn't confiscate enough money, spend enough money, or put enough resources into the ideas-- ignoring the obvious fact that the failed Soviet Union made a 100% national effort for 70 years and failed. He's a megalomaniac on a tear, and it's going to take decades to clean up the mess. And the pain we're going to have to experience fixing his failed regimes great leap backwards into socialism is Obama's fault. I blame Obama.
|
|
|
Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 5, 2011 11:20:22 GMT -5
<<< And the pain we're going to have to experience fixing his failed regimes great leap backwards into socialism is Obama's fault. >>> ...the silver lining may be the opportunity to dismantle many (hopefully all) entitlement programs... so we may thank him when all is said and done...
|
|
ameiko
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 16, 2011 10:48:22 GMT -5
Posts: 812
|
Post by ameiko on Mar 5, 2011 13:16:02 GMT -5
So "Blame Bush" is good but "Blame Obama" is bad?
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,386
|
Post by billisonboard on Mar 5, 2011 13:28:25 GMT -5
So "Blame Bush" is good but "Blame Obama" is bad? That isn't what I got from the link in the OP. What I think it is saying is that "(i)t is a counterproductive cop out to blame everything on Obama. ..."
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 6, 2011 10:22:01 GMT -5
Caution for The "Blame Obama" CrowdCan those who don't want to blame Obama list the major foreign policy accomplishments for his administration for the past two years??? Can they also list his major domestic policies for the past two years?? It is true Obama inherited a financial mess from the 2007 - 2008 financial crisis but his commission headed by Phil Angelides published a 548 page report Re: The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission Findings"...that says NO Wall Street Execs associated with the greatest meltdown since 1929 Wall Street Crash are in jail and that the Eric Holder run DOJ has looked the other way in this investigation because of the money and power of the financial services industry.. The Commission report says that President Obama's decision not to go after it is hard to understand and Obama refuses to give his reasons.. Bearns Sterns Execs and Countrywide Financial's Angelo Mozilo were not prosecuted by the DOJ after a two year investigation..The Commission report also claims that Lehman Bros and Merrill Lynch manipulated the prices for their mortgage back securities but their top management didn't recall or know anything about this DOJ investigators said OK with that..and moved on..?? What a complete sham this is...The RICO statue was not inforced by the DOJ and again the Commission was astonished and asked Why?? Eric Holder was not able to comment..
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 6, 2011 20:26:32 GMT -5
<<< And the pain we're going to have to experience fixing his failed regimes great leap backwards into socialism is Obama's fault. >>> ...the silver lining may be the opportunity to dismantle many (hopefully all) entitlement programs... so we may thank him when all is said and done...Well, this is where things get dicey. His goal is the Cloward-Piven objective of overwhelming the welfare system and collapsing it on purpose to foment the glorious uprising of the prolitariat. My optimistic argument is that they will successfully kill the welfare state, but there will be no uprising of the prolitariat, because the "prolitariat" is Marxist mythology-- especially in a country that has tasted freedom. I honestly think they thought they'd see it after the crash that they planned and executed very well. I think timing of all that with the appearance of "The One" was all supposed to come together in a glorious peaceful transition to a socialist utopia. But the "uprising" they got was from the TEA Party. I think that was the big spoiler in the middle of their plan. I think that's why they are so angry, and frankly so scared of the TEA Party. I think it really chaps their asses that there are so many people that are too stupid to see the benefits of the glorious new order "The One" was supposed to usher in. The wrong people rebelled, and when the whole thing collapses, I think they'll be shocked that all the wrong people rise up again, and become all too willing to pick up the pieces, clean up the mess, and make sure these kooks never see the light of day on the political scene again. Oh, there'll still be Democrats-- but mostly on college campuses and in display cases at the musuem of natural history.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 6, 2011 20:34:02 GMT -5
Caution for The "Blame Obama" CrowdCan those who don't want to blame Obama list the major foreign policy accomplishments for his administration for the past two years??? Can they also list his major domestic policies for the past two years?? It is true Obama inherited a financial mess from the 2007 - 2008 financial crisis but his commission headed by Phil Angelides published a 548 page report Re: The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission Findings"...that says NO Wall Street Execs associated with the greatest meltdown since 1929 Wall Street Crash are in jail and that the Eric Holder run DOJ has looked the other way in this investigation because of the money and power of the financial services industry.. The Commission report says that President Obama's decision not to go after it is hard to understand and Obama refuses to give his reasons.. Bearns Sterns Execs and Countrywide Financial's Angelo Mozilo were not prosecuted by the DOJ after a two year investigation..The Commission report also claims that Lehman Bros and Merrill Lynch manipulated the prices for their mortgage back securities but their top management didn't recall or know anything about this DOJ investigators said OK with that..and moved on..?? What a complete sham this is...The RICO statue was not inforced by the DOJ and again the Commission was astonished and asked Why?? Eric Holder was not able to comment.. Do you really wonder why? I bet most of the Dems here don't even know... www.portfolio.com/slideshows/2008/06/Countrywide-VIPswww.portfolio.com/news-markets/top-5/2008/06/12/Countrywide-Loan-Scandal/Here's the July 2008 follow up to that story... www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/07/16/Countrywide-Deals-Exposed/And here's a slide show of the list of the "Friends of Angelo" again www.portfolio.com/slideshows/2008/06/Countrywide-VIPs
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Mar 6, 2011 20:35:29 GMT -5
And every morning America will wake up to know that there are Republicans with their great humor and wonderful feelings toward their fellow man at every street corner, opening doors for all, sitting in all the seats of Congress, both houses, definitly in the white house forever and ever till the end of time....'what a revolting Developement that is" says Charles Riley and so say all of we too.
|
|
verrip1
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:41:19 GMT -5
Posts: 2,992
|
Post by verrip1 on Mar 7, 2011 3:03:37 GMT -5
Good read to this end: "Conclusion: It is a counterproductive cop out to blame everything on Obama. ..." Yes, we must not question the actions of the Chosen One. Failures are not his fault. He is infallible.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 7, 2011 8:30:43 GMT -5
Due to the Financial Crisis the economy under Obama's watch has tanked, the mortgage industry has yet to recover, and millions of jobs were lost, and many of these job losses are permanent.
And since Eric Holder has been our AG only Bernie Maddoff has gone to jail. Why? Are the financial executives too big to jail? Obama's administration has made it a high priority to NOT prosecute financial executives. While some of what these banks did was criminal but the government decided to get rid of the rules and regulations instead and we are just left with economic ruin. Mozilo and others from the ilk known as our trusted financial executives are laughing all the way to their private foreign banks overseas and the SEC looked the other way. Why is the Obama administration reluctant to prosecute executives who plunged the economy into chaos??
Can the Liberals who defend Obama try to answer this question on the minds of the nation?? Can Eric Holder explain why the Justice Dept allowed Angelo Mozillo and other financial execs negotiate behind closed doors civil suits to avoid jail time??
|
|
ChiTownVenture
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 10:39:06 GMT -5
Posts: 648
|
Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 7, 2011 8:39:10 GMT -5
Congress can go after the banks, just like Eric Holder and the justice department, actually congress has even greater latitude as they can pass laws if they have the votes.
So why are we not all looking to congress and saying that they dropped the ball? If conservatives don't like what Holder is doing, why are they not pursuing justice with the abilities given to them by the Constitution?
This is the greater injustice.
Approximately 70 republican members of congress are lawyers.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 7, 2011 8:49:10 GMT -5
Could the issue be that the Justice Dept might not be in any rush to prosecute since much of the banks bad behavior was in fact legal? Did deregulation go too far?? Were some of the bank rules done away with?
The Justice Dept needs to answer these questions posed to them by the President Commission to Investigate the Financial Meltdown in 2007 and 2008. They issued a report that blames the SEC and the Justice Dept for being too cozy with Wall St and now it will be swept under the rug or tossed in the trash heap while Obama and Holder move onto to other issues like the DOMA or Muslim concerns about being mistreated by our government.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 7, 2011 8:52:48 GMT -5
Congress can go after the banks, just like Eric Holder and the justice department, actually congress has even greater latitude as they can pass laws if they have the votes. So why are we not all looking to congress and saying that they dropped the ball? If conservatives don't like what Holder is doing, why are they not pursuing justice with the abilities given to them by the Constitution? This is the greater injustice. Approximately 70 republican members of congress are lawyers. The subject is " A Caution for The "Blame Obama" Crowd and NOT about congress ...but nice try again to divert attention from the OP.. The congress and the country are waiting anxiously for the Justice Dept to explain why all these senior financial executives are TOO BIG TO FAIL.....
|
|
ChiTownVenture
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 10:39:06 GMT -5
Posts: 648
|
Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 7, 2011 8:56:40 GMT -5
Congress can go after the banks, just like Eric Holder and the justice department, actually congress has even greater latitude as they can pass laws if they have the votes. So why are we not all looking to congress and saying that they dropped the ball? If conservatives don't like what Holder is doing, why are they not pursuing justice with the abilities given to them by the Constitution? This is the greater injustice. Approximately 70 republican members of congress are lawyers. The subject is " A Caution for The "Blame Obama" Crowd and NOT about congress ...but nice try again to divert attention from the OP.. The congress and the country are waiting anxiously for the Justice Dept to explain why all these senior financial executives are TOO BIG TO FAIL..... The OP is A Caution for the blame Obama Crowd NOT about the justice department... but nice try again to divert attention. The US public is waiting to hear anxiously why congress is not going after the financial executives of the banks that cause the financial crisis. Keep going and you will kill this discussion also.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 7, 2011 9:01:19 GMT -5
The fact is that some of these executives have or will receive some financial punishment in civil court is of little consequence ...because if ruining the economy isn't worth a little time in jail then what is??'
Why hasn't the Obama administration made it a priority to prosecute financial executives? It's reticence to punish these crooks is on display and the Justice Dept under Eric Holder owes the country an answer..
So again the question to the Obama Administration is:
WERE THE FINANCIAL EXECS TOO BIG TO JAIL??
And the Obama Administration cannot pass this off on congress or Bush this time...If the Obama administration don't go after them it's probably unlikely they will go after anyone else..
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 7, 2011 9:15:19 GMT -5
The subject is " A Caution for The "Blame Obama" Crowd and NOT about congress ...but nice try again to divert attention from the OP.. The congress and the country are waiting anxiously for the Justice Dept to explain why all these senior financial executives are TOO BIG TO FAIL..... The OP is A Caution for the blame Obama Crowd NOT about the justice department... but nice try again to divert attention. The US public is waiting to hear anxiously why congress is not going after the financial executives of the banks that cause the financial crisis. Keep going and you will kill this discussion also. Again so you clearly understand my point: No matter what kinds of logical, legal explanation that the Justice Dept or the Obama Administration has trotted out to explain why all these senior financial executives are too big to jail, it's outrageous that there has not been and will not be some punishment for the men who plunged the American Economy into a place that it may never fully recover in our lifetime....A Commission blames the Obama Administration's Justice Dept and SEC and nothing in the news is being discussed about this issue...What is wrong with this picture??
|
|
ChiTownVenture
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 10:39:06 GMT -5
Posts: 648
|
Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 7, 2011 9:22:09 GMT -5
The OP is A Caution for the blame Obama Crowd NOT about the justice department... but nice try again to divert attention. The US public is waiting to hear anxiously why congress is not going after the financial executives of the banks that cause the financial crisis. Keep going and you will kill this discussion also. Again so you clearly understand my point: No matter what kinds of logical, legal explanation that the Justice Dept or the Obama Administration has trotted out to explain why all these senior financial executives are too big to jail, it's outrageous that there has not been and will not be some punishment for the men who plunged the American Economy into a place that it may never fully recover in our lifetime....A Commission blames the Obama Administration's Justice Dept and SEC and nothing in the news is being discussed about this issue...What is wrong with this picture?? Agreed, all stops should be pulled out and every part of government should be focused on going after the companies and individuals responsible. Individuals should be held accountable and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The entire government is failing in this task. Our government is built with checks and balances, it's hard to place blame squarely with one "department". I would like to see congress take a more active role in enforcement, and not just assigning blame after the fact.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 7, 2011 9:34:50 GMT -5
Again so you clearly understand my point: No matter what kinds of logical, legal explanation that the Justice Dept or the Obama Administration has trotted out to explain why all these senior financial executives are too big to jail, it's outrageous that there has not been and will not be some punishment for the men who plunged the American Economy into a place that it may never fully recover in our lifetime....A Commission blames the Obama Administration's Justice Dept and SEC and nothing in the news is being discussed about this issue...What is wrong with this picture?? Agreed, all stops should be pulled out and every part of government should be focused on going after the companies and individuals responsible. Individuals should be held accountable and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The entire government is failing in this task. Our government is built with checks and balances, it's hard to place blame squarely with one "department". I would like to see congress take a more active role in enforcement, and not just assigning blame after the fact. FYI Congress is probably wading through the 550+ page report from the Commission that investigated the 2007 -2008 Financial Crisis and their recommendations.. And will the Chairman of this commission Phil Angelides be able to discuss this report or will he be silenced by the Obama Adminstration..?? Holder may use the excuse that because of the ongoing investigations he cannot comment which is his excuse so far..
|
|