The Landlord Thread

[The Captain]

I've decided I'd like one place to post my musings on having rental properties.  I've found these to be helpful to go back and look at years later to remind yourself what worked and what didn't.  Feel free to add your own experiences as I wish I had something like this to read when I was doing my research.

Right now we are experiencing a polar vortex.  In the past three days we've received calls from 3 of the 5 units.  One had pipes freeze (GAWD NO!) and the other two had heat go out.

I'm working crazy assed hours.  In an effort not to put ALL of this on DH we've been working on building up our trade network.  Have a fantastic place we use for HVAC and plumbing issues, bit pricey, but still in the budget.  The get the call to take care of the two furnace issues. 

We're doing a refresh on one of the units and the craftsman working on that is agreeable to emergency calls (at a favorable to him hourly rate - I'm good with that).  We give him a call and he meets DH at the unit with the frozen pipes. 

As it turns out, the tenant had compressed some insulation under the porch to store a few totes.  This allowed cold air to get in under the porch and freeze the kitchen pipes that ran under that wall. 

*Sigh*  Two hours in labor, and new insulation (and instructions to never do that again), and a blow torch later they have the pipes unfrozen.  Nothing broken (thank goodness).

In the meantime, the boiler pump at one unit needs replacing and the furnace filter at the other unit was clogged.  ROOKIE MISTAKE!!!  I'm pissed at myself because I should have made a maintenance checklist for spring and fall servicing. 

I'm usually pretty good at planning and checklists, but like I said - blew it on this one.  So one of my tasks for this weekend is to put together maintenance checklists and schedule them on our calendars.

Oh, and the unit that had the clogged filter - yea...it's going to need a new furnace in the next year or so.  Fortunately I've got a sinking fund and was already planning on this.  Guess I don't screw everything up.

[Deleted]

Like everything there is a learning process I'm sure. Don't beat yourself up about it.

[bean29]

Thanks for the update.  I am glad you had the resources to resolve all the issues. Seems like when it rains it pours.

How much is the boiler pump going to set you back?

We had one unit where we gave the lower tenants access to the full basement and the garage. After various issues including a tenant using a room in the basement for a bedroom, another tenant clogging the whole basement with hoarder crap and a tenant who left a car and dirty oil in the garage...We asked my Brother-in-law to move from the upper unit (which is technically a little larger) to the lower and gave him full use of the garage and the basement.

My husband likes the upper tenant but she is a single Mom who gets Child Support from 2 different fathers for her 2 kids.  A few months ago she gave notice, and said she was losing custody of one of the kids and would no longer be able to afford the rent. DH told her he would work with her/take partial rent until she found something else, but she somehow resolved the situation and decided to stay. (This is my Mother-in-law's unit).

My niece is the tenant at our rental property. DH ran over there to check if the sidewalks were done last weekend and they were. Pretty sure the next door neighbor is snow blowing the front sidewalk. DH periodically drops off a case of beer and a bag of salt for the neighbor and my niece to use on the sidewalks.

DH has a preferred HVAC contractor and he also has a few carpenter's/handymen to call, when he or his family can't handle issues themselves.  He is an insurance agent, so usually the contractors he calls are his customers.

[The Captain]

Jan 9, 2015 10:10:03 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Thanks for the update.  I am glad you had the resources to resolve all the issues. Seems like when it rains it pours.

How much is the boiler pump going to set you back?

We had one unit where we gave the lower tenants access to the full basement and the garage. After various issues including a tenant using a room in the basement for a bedroom, another tenant clogging the whole basement with hoarder crap and a tenant who left a car and dirty oil in the garage...We asked my Brother-in-law to move from the upper unit (which is technically a little larger) to the lower and gave him full use of the garage and the basement.

My husband likes the upper tenant but she is a single Mom who gets Child Support from 2 different fathers for her 2 kids.  A few months ago she gave notice, and said she was losing custody of one of the kids and would no longer be able to afford the rent. DH told her he would work with her/take partial rent until she found something else, but she somehow resolved the situation and decided to stay. (This is my Mother-in-law's unit).

My niece is the tenant at our rental property. DH ran over there to check if the sidewalks were done last weekend and they were. Pretty sure the next door neighbor is snow blowing the front sidewalk. DH periodically drops off a case of beer and a bag of salt for the neighbor and my niece to use on the sidewalks.

DH has a preferred HVAC contractor and he also has a few carpenter's/handymen to call, when he or his family can't handle issues themselves.  He is an insurance agent, so usually the contractors he calls are his customers.

 

Labor and Materials on the boiler pump is $515. Yea, I know someone will come on and tell me the pump is only about $150 or so and it should take about 2-3 hours or so to switch it out yadda, yadda, yadda - but DH and I both work full time so we've decided there are times when we are willing to spend money to:

1.  Make sure it's done right and,
2. Save ourselves some time.

DH is REALLY good about tackling projects, so I don't feel bad when he tells me to let an expert handle it.

DH periodically drops off a case of beer and a bag of salt for the neighbor and my niece to use on the sidewalks.

I dunno, seems like a waste of beer to me...

[zibazinski]

[zibazinski]

It takes a brave soul to be one. I had a property manager for one of mine that is now vacant. In spite of supposedly 3 inspections, somehow she missed the destroyed floor which wasn't even two years old, the garage door that was backed into and had to be totally replaced, the two storm doors busted, and the gate lock and gate itself busted. So all of that 3k deposit will be used up and then some . The PM told her she could use some of that deposit as last months rent even. So there's really only 2k to work with. So I'm thinking the PM will be refunding her fees to make up for the new floor that has to be installed thanks to her negligence. I'm not stupid enough to trust tenants anymore but the PM had a duty to me to make sure the place had no more than normal wear and tear. I expected to replace bedroom carpets, which needed it before she moved in, paint the walls, and add a new stove. Not redo the whole place again. So it's going on the market after this next redo.

[mroped]

Boilers and furnaces and their pumps are going to go bad at some point no mater what. You cannot control that so don't try it but is best to have some funds and be prepared for it.

Water lines freezing on the other hand is an issue that can be fixed as to avoid any future problems.
Water lines on the outer walls is never a good idea. Can they be rerouted as to avoid the exterior wall contact? Are they presently insulated in any way? There is a sponge like type of insulation designed specifically for this kind of situation.
There is also the option of having a heater wrapped on the pipes. This is basically a narrow tape that gets put on the pipes and keep the pipes temps above freezing. Similar to the tape that gets put on roofs for deicing.

Why I'm giving you all this options is because you cannot thrust that the tenant won't go again removing or compressing the insulation under the porch!

[The Captain]

Jan 9, 2015 10:40:49 GMT -5 mroped said:

Boilers and furnaces and their pumps are going to go bad at some point no mater what. You cannot control that so don't try it but is best to have some funds and be prepared for it.

Water lines freezing on the other hand is an issue that can be fixed as to avoid any future problems.
Water lines on the outer walls is never a good idea. Can they be rerouted as to avoid the exterior wall contact? Are they presently insulated in any way? There is a sponge like type of insulation designed specifically for this kind of situation.
There is also the option of having a heater wrapped on the pipes. This is basically a narrow tape that gets put on the pipes and keep the pipes temps above freezing. Similar to the tape that gets put on roofs for deicing.

Why I'm giving you all this options is because you cannot thrust that the tenant won't go again removing or compressing the insulation under the porch!

Excellent point. The water lines are against a concrete wall in the basement of which the front porch is in front of.  That's a good suggestion and one I will bring up to DH.  Maybe a summer project.  I also wanted to ask about the pipe insulation but with everything going on forgot so thanks for the reminder on that!

They installed some type of wire that wraps around the pipe and gently heats it, does that sound right?  At least that's what my muddled brain understood when he tried to explain it to me when I got home (working late right now). 

[mroped]

Yeap! The wire heats the pipe and should keep it from freezing. Aparently in your case was not enough!
the insulation for the pipes looks like the "pool noodles" designed for different sizes of pipes.
Also you could look at replacing the copper lines with PEX lines and reroute them. Much easier to work with, maintain and repair plus they are flexible.

[zibazinski]

Do you point out to your tenants that damage done due to their negligence will be paid by them? I found that inserting that clause into my rental agreements did cut down on the toys in the toilet. Not that I didn't call plumber for things but I did tell them that if it was their negligence, they'd be paying the bill.

[Peace77]

I would plan on replacing your HVAC filters more often than 2x per year.  Get the better quality filters and replace them quarterly.   If you use the cheapest ones, plan to replace them monthly.

[Bonny]

I think this thread should be in "Your Money" and pinned!

I'm in the process of totaling up our stuff to go to the CPA. Reliving this summer/fall's pain with the laundry room. Total cost of plumbing + laundry room + toilets repairs about 8k

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jan 9, 2015 18:40:20 GMT -5 Peace77 said:

I would plan on replacing your HVAC filters more often than 2x per year.  Get the better quality filters and replace them quarterly.   If you use the cheapest ones, plan to replace them monthly.

This is what my last management company did.  Filters were replaced every other month, and they checked to see that smoke detectors were functioning (they were so touchy that I would disconnect mine while making certain dishes, and reconnect when done).

I think that they were scheduled like this to keep an eye on the shape of my unit.

[Deleted]

Hi Captain

It sounds like you want a place for your own posts (which I can totally understand!) but I agree with Bonny, it would be great to have a dedicated landlord thread on YM. 

And kudos to you, because (like Bonny) you are always so well prepared lol!

One of our tenants has given his notice. We had a hard time finding somebody who can do the work as soon as he vacates at the end of Jan, but it looks like we finally have (our regular guy, we had trouble reaching him over the holidays). 

Like you, Captain, we both work full-time. DH is quite handy but since his accident he's quite slow, so we prefer to pay somebody to do the work. Also, getting somebody in is tax deductible.

There doesn't seem to be much to do: repaint, fix one of the 2 windows (not sure what the problem is yet, sounds like it's hard to open / close), and either fix or replace the mini-kitchen unit because one of the electric plates doesn't work. (I want to replace it with one with vitroceramic.) The windows may eventually need replacing but the building will be renovated this year so we'll wait for that. Happily it has a tile floor throughout, and we replaced the hot water tank 2 years ago.

New law here: every rental needs a smoke detector installed by March 1, so there's that too. 

My new semester starts tomorrow so I won't be reading EE anymore, so I would love to have a thread on YM because when I work I only read WIR and YM. 

This rental is a 24m2 studio / efficiency, so 260 sq ft. We bought it in Feb 2011, already rented. It was in perfect shape and the tenant has been great. However the building is not in great shape. It was scheduled to be renovated in 2011 but one of the owners refused, there was a lawsuit, he lost, so now it will be. That entire riverfront has been or is in the process of being reno'd, so I know the value will go up as soon as the building is reno'd.  

It has a lovely view on the Seine too (it's not IN Paris, it's in the suburbs).

[Deleted]

Captain created a thread on EE about her landlording adventures, and Bonny mentioned that it would be great to have a Landlord thread on YM.

My second semester starts tomorrow, and when I'm working I only read YM and WIR, so selfishly, I'm starting it. I will copy my post from EE. I hope that Captain will repost her post and that Bonny and others will join in here.

[Deleted]

I need to go to bed now so I started it on YM, OT. 

Captain I would love if you would repost there, and I hope that Bonny and others will join in!

[Deleted]

One of our tenants has given his notice. We had a hard time finding somebody who can do the work as soon as he vacates at the end of Jan, but it looks like we finally have (our regular guy, we had trouble reaching him over the holidays).

Like you, Captain, we both work full-time. DH is quite handy but since his accident he's quite slow, so we prefer to pay somebody to do the work. Also, getting somebody in is tax deductible.

There doesn't seem to be much to do: repaint, fix one of the 2 windows (not sure what the problem is yet, sounds like it's hard to open / close), and either fix or replace the mini-kitchen unit because one of the electric plates doesn't work. (I want to replace it with one with vitroceramic.) The windows may eventually need replacing but the building will be renovated this year so we'll wait for that. Happily it has a tile floor throughout, and we replaced the hot water tank 2 years ago.

New law here: every rental needs a smoke detector installed by March 1, so there's that too.

This rental is a 24m2 studio / efficiency, so 260 sq ft. We bought it in Feb 2011, already rented. It was in perfect shape and the tenant has been great. However the building is not in great shape. It was scheduled to be renovated in 2011 but one of the owners refused, there was a lawsuit, he lost, so now it will be. That entire riverfront either has been or is in the process of being reno'd, so I know the value will go up as soon as the building is reno'd.

It has a lovely view on the Seine too (it's not IN Paris, it's in the suburbs).

(This was my response to Captain on her thread on EE, I hope she and Bonny and others join in!)

[Deleted]

One other thing, for those who have followed my rental property adventures over these years: our lives have RADICALLY CHANGED since July, when we got rid of That Wonky Apt, and That Wonky Real Estate Agency, and That Wonky Property Manager!

It is AMAZING not to have to follow up about the next non-paying tenant, or try to reach the PM who is constantly in tears because her DH has yet again attempted suicide, or the owner of the agency who is trying to keep it all together AND take care of her DD / grandkids. 

I truly wish them all the best, but honestly, I am SO HAPPY not to have to deal with them all anymore!

We closed on the new rental in late Dec and decided to keep the former owner's PM. I have spoken to her 3 or 4 times on the phone already and we have exchanged paperwork first via post and now via email ... she's totally professional, pleasant, efficient.

WOW! LOL

ETA: For the rental that is being vacated at the end of the month: we have managed it ourselves since we bought it in Feb 2011. BUT, we don't have the time / energy / self-confidence to find a new tenant at that time of year. So if we can't find one ourselves through word-of-mouth, we'll give it to an agency to find a new tenant, but then continue to manage it ourselves. 

[Jaguar]

The Captain

Do you want this thread combined with the YMOF one ? YMOT one is pinned.

[Bonny]

Only news to report is that I'm reconsidering putting the AZ house for sale.

DH doesn't want to sell it for less than $630k and based on what we're seeing on the market we think we'd get closer to $600k. DH doesn't think we'll make a profit at $600k and "doesn't think that's right".

LOL, it is what it is, baby!

Actually rents look really good. I'm not seeing a 3 SFR in our zip for less than $3k/mth. Current rent is $2350 and if we were to get $2700 that would get us a gross return of about 4.5% or a net of 3+% (this is backing out RE taxes, insurance, commissions, spa & garden care) and exclusive of appreciation.

I do think rents might be artificially high due to the Superbowl but I am looking at 1 year leases. Last week my doctor announced that she's joining Firebird and moving to OR. The SF Bay Area CA exodus to OR makes think that the So. CA folks may be bailing for AZ. Seems to happen every 10 years without fail!

[The Captain]

Jan 11, 2015 20:13:20 GMT -5 Jaguar said:

The Captain

Do you want this thread combined with the YMOF one ? YMOT one is pinned.

Appreciate it Sugi, yes.

[Bonny]

Well I called the AZ tenant because I hadn't heard from them and they still haven't found a place to rent!

I'm really not surprised. Everybody is asking insane amounts (including moving out of their homes) for short term Superbowl rentals.

They are reconsidering renewing the lease until the end of the year (or I'm suggesting 1/15/16). I'm going to bump the rent to $2500 and we've discussed responsibilities should they want to break the lease part way through. If they're smart they'll hold off buying now (which is peak season) and wait until fall.

I've given them until Thursday to decide.

[Deleted]

Bonny, I agree with Boskone, your life would be simpler if you sold at least one place. Plus you're likely to be dealing with your MIL's place sooner rather than later. At some point it's going to become overwhelming, I don't want you to be in that position. 

[Bonny]

Jan 13, 2015 19:27:17 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

Bonny, I agree with Boskone, your life would be simpler if you sold at least one place. Plus you're likely to be dealing with your MIL's place sooner rather than later. At some point it's going to become overwhelming, I don't want you to be in that position. 

LOL, I know. The sooner, maybe A LOT sooner. DH and she have been down at the cabin for the last week for her 80th. I think he's ready to smother her with a pillow! Thankfully she heads home tomorrow.

Thank you Nikki cat for keeping me out of that drama!

Yeah, I'm thinking that if we don't put the AZ house up for sale this year then it's N. San Diego County house next year. That's got some significant cap. gains because of the prior 1031s and neither DH nor I are as emotionally attached.

[tskeeter]

Jan 13, 2015 14:15:00 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

So my updates

1. got an email from the seattle rental saying they had a great holiday and everything is going well with the house. Need to remember to talk to the yard guy about restarting in the spring, as I've not heard from him this month. Also need to remember to tell renter to change the filter int he furnace.

2. got an email from the eastside tenant, sees what might be a leak above the bathroom. Called roofer (had to call twice) going out today to look at it. Need to get electrician out to put in timers for bath fans too, as it might just be moisture. also need to tell him to change furnace filters

3. got word from lender today, won't get as much on HELOC as we wanted to build new rental apt on our primary property. probably go ahead with architect, engineering, subdivision and permits with the money we have and hope it's enough to build boathouse with apartment above so we can reappraise and get the money we need to expand the main house.

as someone told me "you sure don't let the grass grow under your feet!"

OH, and appraisal came back on eastside rental at a nice number.

also, need to think if i'm raising their rent in July or getting him to do yard service instead.

Raise the rent and keep the lawn service.  Then you don't have to hassle with a tenant who doesn't maintain the yard to the neighbor's standards, the city's standards, the HOA's standards, or your standards.  And you won't have to spend a small fortune to clean up the unkempt and over grown landscaping and replacing the stuff the tenant let die while they were responsible for the landscaping when the tenant moves out. 

[tskeeter]

Jan 11, 2015 19:00:51 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

One of our tenants has given his notice. We had a hard time finding somebody who can do the work as soon as he vacates at the end of Jan, but it looks like we finally have (our regular guy, we had trouble reaching him over the holidays).

Like you, Captain, we both work full-time. DH is quite handy but since his accident he's quite slow, so we prefer to pay somebody to do the work. Also, getting somebody in is tax deductible.

There doesn't seem to be much to do: repaint, fix one of the 2 windows (not sure what the problem is yet, sounds like it's hard to open / close), and either fix or replace the mini-kitchen unit because one of the electric plates doesn't work. (I want to replace it with one with vitroceramic.) The windows may eventually need replacing but the building will be renovated this year so we'll wait for that. Happily it has a tile floor throughout, and we replaced the hot water tank 2 years ago.

New law here: every rental needs a smoke detector installed by March 1, so there's that too.

This rental is a 24m2 studio / efficiency, so 260 sq ft. We bought it in Feb 2011, already rented. It was in perfect shape and the tenant has been great. However the building is not in great shape. It was scheduled to be renovated in 2011 but one of the owners refused, there was a lawsuit, he lost, so now it will be. That entire riverfront either has been or is in the process of being reno'd, so I know the value will go up as soon as the building is reno'd.

It has a lovely view on the Seine too (it's not IN Paris, it's in the suburbs).

(This was my response to Captain on her thread on EE, I hope she and Bonny and others join in!)

Unless the new law requires all of the smoke detectors in the building to be wired together, the smoke detector should be no big deal.  A couple of screws to install one of the battery operated ones.  Put in one of the expensive, lithuim, 10 year batteries, and forget it for the next decade.

[The Captain]

Jan 15, 2015 16:57:10 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jan 11, 2015 19:00:51 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

One of our tenants has given his notice. We had a hard time finding somebody who can do the work as soon as he vacates at the end of Jan, but it looks like we finally have (our regular guy, we had trouble reaching him over the holidays).

Like you, Captain, we both work full-time. DH is quite handy but since his accident he's quite slow, so we prefer to pay somebody to do the work. Also, getting somebody in is tax deductible.

There doesn't seem to be much to do: repaint, fix one of the 2 windows (not sure what the problem is yet, sounds like it's hard to open / close), and either fix or replace the mini-kitchen unit because one of the electric plates doesn't work. (I want to replace it with one with vitroceramic.) The windows may eventually need replacing but the building will be renovated this year so we'll wait for that. Happily it has a tile floor throughout, and we replaced the hot water tank 2 years ago.

New law here: every rental needs a smoke detector installed by March 1, so there's that too.

This rental is a 24m2 studio / efficiency, so 260 sq ft. We bought it in Feb 2011, already rented. It was in perfect shape and the tenant has been great. However the building is not in great shape. It was scheduled to be renovated in 2011 but one of the owners refused, there was a lawsuit, he lost, so now it will be. That entire riverfront either has been or is in the process of being reno'd, so I know the value will go up as soon as the building is reno'd.

It has a lovely view on the Seine too (it's not IN Paris, it's in the suburbs).

(This was my response to Captain on her thread on EE, I hope she and Bonny and others join in!)

Unless the new law requires all of the smoke detectors in the building to be wired together, the smoke detector should be no big deal.  A couple of screws to install one of the battery operated ones.  Put in one of the expensive, lithuim, 10 year batteries, and forget it for the next decade. replace it every month when the tenant takes it out to power one of their gadgets.

Fixed.

[The Captain]

Jan 11, 2015 18:57:21 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

I need to go to bed now so I started it on YM, OT. 

Captain I would love if you would repost there, and I hope that Bonny and others will join in!

Sorry Debt - missed your post the first time around.  I've asked the threads to be merged.  Is it in the right place for you now?

[The Captain]

Jan 15, 2015 17:00:57 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Jan 15, 2015 16:49:35 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Raise the rent and keep the lawn service.  Then you don't have to hassle with a tenant who doesn't maintain the yard to the neighbor's standards, the city's standards, the HOA's standards, or your standards.  And you won't have to spend a small fortune to clean up the unkempt and over grown landscaping and replacing the stuff the tenant let die while they were responsible for the landscaping when the tenant moves out. 

I might do that.  It would be my preference.  the guy just had a new baby and is in a high pressure career in finance.

At the same time, he's a "yard guy" and has been aerating and overseeding the yard on his own accord (with my permission) because he has a passion for a nice yard.

Every landlords' dream!  A tenant who treats the property as well as you'd treat your own!

[Deleted]

Captain, yes, thanks! I hope you didn't mind though ... I probably should have PM'd you first. :-)

Thanks for the advice on the smoke detectors ... I'll look into it in the next few weeks.