Will men and women ever truly be equal without...

[Sum Dum Gai]

women being forced to register for the draft and allowed in combat roles in the military? I know this doesn't seem money related, but for military officers especially, commanding combat troops is the single easiest way to get on the fast track for promotions. Ever wonder why you don't see female generals even though we have a ton of female officers these days? It's because it's damn near impossible for female officers to check that "I've commanded combat troops box" and that box is a big deal for a military officer, for obvious reasons.

It's also one of those basic fairness questions. You want all the benefits and choices that a man gets? Fine, the day you turn 18 you can sign up for the draft and have that nagging doubt in the back of your mind every time there's a conflict that you might get called up against your will, stuck in an infantry unit, and be sent off to some hell hole to get shot to shit. Why was my life more expendable? Just because I was born with a penis? It's obvious sexism.

Anyway, discuss.

[Bob Ross]

Military combat aside, I'd be content to consider the genders equal if men are allowed to employ the same tactics that women do when arguing.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Will men and women ever be equal if men can never give birth?

Discuss.

Sorry but I get tired of the draft debate. I think mine is more interesting.

[whoisjohngalt]

I wonder if Israel has the same problem as everyone has to serve in the military there or do they all feel oh so equal.

Lena

[Sum Dum Gai]

Science to the rescue. They're already working on incubators to help premature babies. Give it a little time, and they'll probably be able to develop a full on artifical womb. I could easily see a time when neither men or women have to give birth.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

. I could easily see a time when neither men or women have to give birth

That'll be the day I have another kid!

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"I could easily see a time when neither men or women have to give birth.":::...

But what would women do without their blanket justification!

[zibazinski]

Well, half of my children are serving, just the female half not the male half. I'm relieved in a way because he is such a bookworm that he'd be useless in a situation that required more than brain skills. She's a jock with an alpha personality so it suits her.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Why don't we just get rid of the draft all together? Then nobody has to sign up and everybody is equal because nobody has to sign up. ;D

But what would women do without their blanket justification!

Meh, one of the kidney stones DH passed gives labor a run for its money and he didn't get the benefit of having an epidural when he passed his stone.

[stats45]

Signing up for selective service doesn't require you to be drafted if there is a big conflict. There would have to be drastic legislative changes to reinstate the draft. At this point, it is mainly used to have a database of young men for military recruiting, I would imagine. Short of WWIII, I don't think that should be a nagging concern.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Volunteering for non combat only positions and being subject to the draft and combat service are two different things. That's my point. Right now there's no gender equality in military service. Women go in knowing they aren't subject to assignment in combat units, they have lower physical standards, and they can't get drafted so the military is a choice only.

[illinicheme]

I have zero problem with requiring everyone (or no one) to register for the draft. I completely agree that it's sexist and not equal to require only men to sign up.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Short of WWIII, I don't think that should be a nagging concern.

There were numerous bills introduced in congress to reinstate the draft during this recent conflict. None of them had much support, but it was brought up and it was a possibility.

[Deleted]

men and women will never be equal - PERIOD!


There. I just saved everyone a few minutes out of their day.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Will men and women ever be equal if men can never give birth?

Will men and women ever be equal if women cannot get someone pregnant?

Discuss.

[Sum Dum Gai]

men and women will never be equal - PERIOD!

Ah.. good point. Guess we can go back to not hiring them then, since they're taking jobs away from men. As a matter of fact, I saw no problem with them legally being viewed as property. It seemed to work out alright for our forefathers.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Will men and women ever be equal if women cannot get someone pregnant?

Discuss.

Touche.

[Deleted]

now now now, I didn't say it was okay to discriminate. Discrimination is wrong, but that is not to say that everyone is really equal. And I think most people realize that.

[stats45]

It wasn't really a possibility. The bills were brought up by people against the Iraq war because they knew that reinstating a draft would dramatically erode all support for the war. The draft is really a third-rail in politics now, and it would be short of a terrible conflict.

[stats45]

I think we live in a time where it is possible to see men and women as equal. Because most of the jobs in our economy are service, professional, or even less physical manufacturing jobs, women are able to perform just as well as men. Not every job, but most. This might not have been the case fifty years ago, but it is now. In most situations then, there isn't a compelling reason to see a difference and discrimination just doesn't make sense.

[jarhead1976]

As far as serving our country I think women contribute much . I have the signature of Jessica Lynch. Had the honor to meet her at a parade in Jackson, Ohio. She was exposed to the same danger as men. What a great human being she is. Like most, wondering why she survived while her comrades died. Women to, leave family and friends and give all they can to support other troops. Combat or not what a blessing to our country. Never underestimate the heart of a volunteer.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Touche

[Sum Dum Gai]

The draft is really a third-rail in politics now, and it would be short of a terrible conflict.

Right, be we never know when a terrible conflict will break out do we? Look at how long Iraq and Afghanistan are dragging out? Those were supposed to be three month wars remember? Look at what's going on in the Middle East right now. Nobody knows how ugly what will get. Nobody knows how tensions play out if the unrest drives oil prices through the roof. The only thing we do know is that if the stuff hits the fan, my little brothers will get drafted and go die for their country, but my little sisters won't. However, god forbid somebody try to hire my brothers over my sisters, that's discrimination and it's wrong.

[Sum Dum Gai]

now now now, I didn't say it was okay to discriminate. Discrimination is wrong, but that is not to say that everyone is really equal. And I think most people realize that.

But it's OK when the military does it? That's your argument?

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2011 15:41:34 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

now now now, I didn't say it was okay to discriminate. Discrimination is wrong, but that is not to say that everyone is really equal. And I think most people realize that.

But it's OK when the military does it? That's your argument?

I don't recall saying that at all.

I DO believe that there are some types of jobs that require certain physical standards. In those cases, only the people who can best do the job should be hired for them. If my house is on fire, I want to know that the people helping to put it out/rescue me will be physically capable of doing so. If a woman can be a capable firefighter, that's great - she should definitely be hired as one! But don't go dumbing down the test to fill quotas. In fields like fire, police, and military, IMO everyone needs to be able to pass the same test and go through the same training.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

So really you are just pissed at women who run around yelling "discrimination" when they don't get a job?

I don't see that as any different than someone who screams racial discrimination when they don't get a job.

My field used to be blocked to women because we were not considered to be capable of the rational thought needed to perform our jobs. There were still a handful of women, but they were not well respected till past their deaths. Rosalind Franklin discovered DNA and it's structure just as much as Watson and Crick did but she was pushed into the background because she was female.

Nowdays? Not so much and if I don't get a job in a lab I do not run around assuming it is discrimination. Women are even starting to outnumber men in my profession.

I do think there is still an underlying gender bias that women are not good at math and science that is encouraged and enforced, but that's a different topic.

For me in the field I don't feel I am discriminated against because I am female. I feel discriminated against because I don't have a master's degree.

[Phoenix84]

I'm in agreement that either we all go together in signing up for the draft or none of us should sign up. I'm fine with either as long as it's equal.

[stats45]

The average woman has less physical strength than the average man. There are plenty of women in the 90th - 99th percentile in strength and fitness who are probably tough enough physically for combat.

Discrimination is about stereotypes or prejudices that keep people from accomplishing something they would be able to do otherwise. Pretending that all women have the same characteristics as all men ignores real differences. To get real worked up about this though is silly, because again, most jobs aren't military combat. General equality in everyday life shouldn't be put into a tailspin just because a very large amount of women wouldn't do well in military combat.

[shanendoah]

I would fully support women being required to register for selective service.

Now, I am well past draft age and don't have any children, though I do have female cousins I adore who are at draft age.
Women do serve in combat units, or at least units that are very likely to see combat, in teh current wars. Sadly, many of them are subjected to serious sexual harrassment, sexual coersion, and rape. The military is still not good at dealing with this, partly because it doesn't want to lose trained soldiers. The current "solution" is often to transfer the woman or the man she accuses, without looking in to the allegations at all.
However, I don't think the military will solve it until there are more women at the top most levels and more women in the field in general. So yeah, I support having more women on the ground in war zones.

I think we might be able to be equal when a woman can get a man pregnant, and then get away with telling him that her wishes about what he does with the pregnancy should matter just as much as his.

[Tiny]

Is the Draft even an issue? When was the last time the Government used it? Isn't our 'army' all volunteer-ish - meaning someone willing signed up for it? I strongly suspect that the next time the Government actually used the Draft to conscript soldiers there will be one HullaBaLoo not heard for decades.

For all of youse saying women aren't fit for service -- There's plenty of women serving - voluntarily. I'm pretty sure there's female Marines, too. Dont cha gotta be good to be a Marine?

** I hate that draft arguement almost as much as I hate There's no Atheists in Foxhole arguement.... Meh.