AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 8, 2011 10:23:16 GMT -5
There are some steps being taken now to mitigate the possible shortage of medical care. As it is now, doctors must see everyone, regardless of the problem with which the patient presents. That's not really necessary, and more and more physicians offices are adding physician's assistants and nurse practitioners to their staffs to deal with the less urgent, less complicated complaints. Emergency rooms are doing the same thing. These professionals can see, and treat a good number of patients who present to the doctor's office, or the ER, saving the doctor's time for those who truly need him/her. Up to now, proper usage has not been made of PAs and NPs, except in rural areas. That's something that should be considered no matter which way we end up going with health care. What I want to know from you geniuses that think it'll work "this time" is: Why is the command-and-control, dictatorial solution going to work "this time"? You think doctors being "ordered" to see everyone, and price controls-- doctors fees being decided by some bureaucrat is the solution to the inadequacies of our health care system? Really? I mean this is the kind of thing that when I read it, and hear it I just shake my head at the naivete of the statists who actually beleive this stuff. It never dawns on you that 20,000 doctors might QUIT MEDICINE the first year-- that's what happened in Canada. In the following 10 years, another 70,000 doctors quit, and that doesn't even account for the bright, talented young people that abandoned the idea of medicine, or just never considered it in the first place. We WILL face the same problem here. We're already facing it, and it's only going to get worse unless or until this awful law is repealed completely and we can get to work on solutions we know are effective in delivering the best quality care to the largest number of people: free market solutions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 11:17:45 GMT -5
And ER must see patients... no doctor is required to take any patient at this point... not that i know of... unless maybe you are talking public clinics?
As far as PAs... that's generally ALL i see...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 11:18:37 GMT -5
Yeah... and a third of all teachers quit in the first 5 years too... nobody cares about that...
How many doctors regularly retire each year?
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Mar 8, 2011 12:31:09 GMT -5
It never dawns on you that 20,000 doctors might QUIT MEDICINE the first year-- that's what happened in Canada. In the following 10 years, another 70,000 doctors quit, and that doesn't even account for the bright, talented young people that abandoned the idea of medicine, or just never considered it in the first place. We WILL face the same problem here. We're already facing it, and it's only going to get worse unless or until this awful law is repealed completely and we can get to work on solutions we know are effective in delivering the best quality care to the largest number of people: free market solutions. Oh no! A mass exodus of doctors- really? I don't buy any of it. Canada seems to be doing just fine so apparently your un-cited data had no effect anyway- if they want to take their ball and go home- goodbye then- someone will take their place. Besides- and this might shock you- everyone doesn't go into medicine for the money. Those 'bright talented people' were probably lured into finance since that's where the money went. And free market solutions as an answer? What a joke! We are a shining example of why it does not work. Even so, in a true free market system all of our seniors on medicare would find themselves without health care, denied policies, etc., just like our poorest and sickest citizens are. As it stands now, our government takes all of the undesirables so private companies can rake in the gravy- which is why the system is broken. We don't need them. All our 'free market' does is add unnecessary costs and barriers to obtaining care, plus adds a good dose of misery, financial pain, suffering and/or death to the human part of the equation. These POS institutions do not have anything at all to do with providing health care and all the incentives in the world not to pay for it. Good riddance to them. So again- what exactly is 'awful' about this law- please list a few of the 'awful' sections. Maybe you are just misinformed and I can clear it up for you.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 8, 2011 12:36:31 GMT -5
The bright and talented will move from Practicing to Research, which is where we want the truly gifted anyways.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 8, 2011 12:44:55 GMT -5
Insurance companies already decide who & what gets treated & this wasn't what people were referring to when they said death panels. Everyone kept using the phrase death panels & then pointing to a part in the bill that allowed medicare to pay for end of life counseling (allowed them to pay for it, did not require seniors to get it). It basically allowed people to have a discussion with their doctor to help determine what they want in their living will. Not even close to a death panel or even health care rationing.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 8, 2011 13:41:15 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 8, 2011 13:51:13 GMT -5
Look, I'm not going to debate the merits, or the significant lack therein of the unConstitutional ObamaCare law. The point of this thread is to point out that again, on a second serious issue, the Obama administration is flirting with contempt of court (having already been found in contempt on their illegal denial of permits for oil drilling in the gulf). My point here is to simply point out the law is doomed, and as evidence I offer you the fact they're dragging their feet on this issue.
By the way, the deadline to appeal is Thursday. That's the day after tomorrow as of this post. If they don't file, this judge will lift the stay, demand they comply with the order, and if not they will be held in contempt. They will then have to appeal and ask the 11th Circuit for a stay, and given the behavior that would have led up to that- the 11th circuit may not be very accomodating.
In any case, we all know this is going up to the Supreme Court, and as Vinson has pointed out-- this law goes well beyond the "high water mark" for the application of the so-called "commerce clause", and as such they're going to lose.
IF they thought the could win in front of the Supreme Court, they'd have pushed for a more rapid resolution. They know they're going to lose.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Mar 8, 2011 14:20:57 GMT -5
I don't waste my time with propaganda-I have friends that live in countries with national systems and I will take their word over any website with an agenda- not to mention those undisputed facts about how much we spend versus what we get. Face it- our system is an overpriced turd and you obviously want to make it even worse by fighting all patient/consumer reforms and giving all of the power to for profit corporations. Way to go shill. And answer me this- how is the private insurance market going to deal with the entire population once Medicare and Medicaid is eliminated (which is what has to happen in a free market)? We can't have a dual system- so we are either all on Medicare or we are all on a private policy- which I am sure your GOP corporatists will allow to be sold from the state with the least amount of consumer protections. That's the goal right? Take all of the premiums and pay none of the claims? (at least for most of us- I am sure the politicians and their donors will keep their gold plated policies paid for by the taxes and holes in ours)
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 8, 2011 14:29:48 GMT -5
How does the private market deliver FOOD to every American? You'd be surprised the government you won't miss.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 8, 2011 14:37:00 GMT -5
How does the private market deliver FOOD to every American? You'd be surprised the government you won't miss. I don't know. I think I would miss the govt that regulates my food. I like that there are laws about how the food is processed & how the stuff is labeled, etc. The govt is a necessary evil - you can't expect the free market to always take care of your best interest. Their profit will be a bigger concern than my well-being. Sometimes their profit means you are well cared for, but sometimes their profit means they put unlabeled fillers in the meat to be able to make a litttle extra money.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 8, 2011 14:37:47 GMT -5
Propaganda? Try FACT: www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.htmlThe private market, while still viewed skeptically, and adopted reluctantly by socialist countries is after all the blather, all the talk, and all the hand-wringing-- the ONLY solution that works, and that's why these nations are turning to the private market to fix their failed socialist policies.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 8, 2011 14:40:00 GMT -5
You wouldn't miss government regulation of food. You might miss the false sense of security you have that someone is inspecting a rodent-ridden peanut processing plant in Georgia, but you wouldn't miss it. Business has no interest in poisoning you, they have no interest in making you sick, or worse-- killing you. You can only kill a customer once. Well, unless you're the government and you have a monopoly...
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Mar 8, 2011 14:51:05 GMT -5
How does the private market deliver FOOD to every American? You'd be surprised the government you won't miss. I don't know. I think I would miss the govt that regulates my food. I like that there are laws about how the food is processed & how the stuff is labeled, etc. The govt is a necessary evil - you can't expect the free market to always take care of your best interest. Their profit will be a bigger concern than my well-being. Sometimes their profit means you are well cared for, but sometimes their profit means they put unlabeled fillers in the meat to be able to make a litttle extra money. And the government will always look out for our best interest?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 8, 2011 14:53:02 GMT -5
You wouldn't miss government regulation of food. You might miss the false sense of security you have that someone is inspecting a rodent-ridden peanut processing plant in Georgia, but you wouldn't miss it. Business has no interest in poisoning you, they have no interest in making you sick, or worse-- killing you. You can only kill a customer once. Well, unless you're the government and you have a monopoly... Actually, I would miss it very much, as would many others. When I was growing up, the law was that if an ingredient was less than 2% of the final product, then it didn't have to be listed. Unfortunately for me, even less that 2% could make me extremely ill & send me to the hospital. Producers didn't bother to label this stuff & didn't bother updating labels if ingredients changed. I like that they now have to label everything & put allergens in plain language & in bold. I'm sure every person with a child allergic to peanuts today doesn't want to go back to a time when labeling didn't need to be accurate. I also like the confidence that baby formula wasn't imported from china and repackaged. I like knowing that there are standards in meat processing & in pharmaceutical processing. I like knowing that generic drugs I purchase are made with the same standards as the name-brand counterparts. You may not miss this stuff, but I promise I will. Yes, the industry doesn't want to make me sick, but they wouldn't hestitate to cut a few corners for profits. Cut a few corners here & a few corners there & eventually people end up sick or dead because they use the wrong kind of filler or screwed up on the dosings in the medication. I like govt with regulations. Food & drugs are just the start of what I think govt needs to be involved in to keep our country safe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 15:08:01 GMT -5
Business has no interest in poisoning you, they have no interest in making you sick, or worse-- killing you.
Missed Upton Sinclair did ya Paul?
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 8, 2011 15:34:04 GMT -5
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Mar 8, 2011 16:43:33 GMT -5
Post some and I might. All I see is opinion by a right wing critic, reference to a discredited study published by AEI, and scary anecdotal non-evidence. Why spend so much time trying to bash other countries systems anyway? Why not explain exactly how ours is so much better-and of course still waiting to hear what parts of the new bill are so 'awful'. BTW, I'm sure every insurance company would have immediately ponied up the 80K for chemo, no questions asked, for a stage 4 cancer patient in the USA- NOT! Your butt is getting dropped and your picture is going on a change jar at the 7-11. From what I read, Canada paid the bill and they were changing the regulations to stop this from happening again-so what's the problem? Not 100% perfect like ours? Ha ha ha, no dead cancer patients in this country, no siree- they give out chemo on every block. You know your country's health care system sucks wind when Remote Area Medical has to waste its precious resources in your otherwise 1st world nation in a freaking major city. Methinks we suck as a country and there sure as hell isn't much we are united about anymore. You would think that taking care of the sick would be one of them.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 8, 2011 20:21:27 GMT -5
I alread posted all of this.
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