gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Nov 26, 2014 16:57:17 GMT -5
I've always followed all the rules at my jobs and the expectation of my managers. It's not up to me to decide which rules I should follow and which rules I can ignore. I'd much rather the expectation be clear than having to guess and then get reprimanded. It's always made my life a lot easier. I've been well-liked by my managers- dozens and dozens of managers of the years, compensated accordingly and promoted. I'm well like by all my direct reports as well. There is no downside to following the rules. So, you don't follow the rules because your life would be boring because by-golly it's your god-given right to get on the internet whenever you want. And, then you complain that your boss is difficult because he wants you to follow the rules. It doesn't sound like that's working out for you. And, no, micromanaging is not a "sin."
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 26, 2014 17:23:28 GMT -5
And, no, micromanaging is not a "sin." I agree it's not a sin. But, one should also not take their stress out on their employees, either. My previous superior used to micromanage when his personal life was very stressful. In his case, his wife wanted a divorce, and separated from him. She then took over two years to decide when/if/how she was going to divorce my superior. Every time the wife pulled something new, my boss completely micromanaged us at work. Not just me. Everyone in our department. It really was unnecessary.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Nov 26, 2014 19:17:13 GMT -5
I've always followed all the rules at my jobs and the expectation of my managers. It's not up to me to decide which rules I should follow and which rules I can ignore. I'd much rather the expectation be clear than having to guess and then get reprimanded. It's always made my life a lot easier. I've been well-liked by my managers- dozens and dozens of managers of the years, compensated accordingly and promoted. I'm well like by all my direct reports as well. There is no downside to following the rules. So, you don't follow the rules because your life would be boring because by-golly it's your god-given right to get on the internet whenever you want. And, then you complain that your boss is difficult because he wants you to follow the rules. It doesn't sound like that's working out for you. And, no, micromanaging is not a "sin." It was a joke about micromanaging being a sin. What I meant is that is, for me, one of the worst traits a manager can have. I do get in the internet occasionally. I have never in my life followed all the rules all the time.
I'm not a robot, I can't do it. Let's face it; some rules are arbitrary and stupid. Besides, I am very easy going but I am not a "yes" person. I have my own opinions. I don't take myself, others, or companies too seriously either.
I also just work for a living. I don't have any emotional investment or personal identification in my job. I hope my next job is something I really enjoy doing and I can derive pleasure and pride from it. So I'm going to choose my next job very carefully. But still, a job is a job and at five o'clock I'm heading for the door and that's it for the day.
And I am not justifying myself for who I am. The original post was just a vent because the man can get really heavy and it was bad yesterday. I am very grateful I've found this place where I can come and write things I cannot share in my real life.
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justme
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Post by justme on Nov 26, 2014 21:02:37 GMT -5
Everyone needs some place to vent. It just seems...odd to vent about a manager not liking that your breaking a clearly stated rule.
FWIW It might be hard to find a M.B.A. pay job that has all the other aspects you want. Especially fresh out the gate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 22:52:40 GMT -5
He can't be that bad if he keeps giving you time off that you do not have. Micromanagers suck but some people absolutely need to be micromanaged. Also, as for thinking the rules are stupid, etc... You have followed phoenix's thread, haven't you? He thought his manager's rules were stupid but he was basically chased out of a job. You don't plan on staying at this job but that attitude will not help you in your future jobs either.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 27, 2014 9:43:19 GMT -5
It is VERY hard to work with a micromanager. I think most people function best when you just leave them alone to do the jobs they were hired to do. So, only you can decide if you would better off with it or without it. Being unemployed isn't exactly fun either. And, you can learn to not allow HIS issues to get under your skin. Yes, it takes some work to do so, but over the years I have finally learned that others around me can have their little SnitFits over whatever, and if they do, that doesn't mean I have to absorb that into myself and ruin my day and mood. Somebody wants to be in a snit and have a hissy, then go right ahead but I dont' have to join in the emotional angst and drama.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Nov 27, 2014 21:30:49 GMT -5
Sorry you're having to deal with this. I just came from a boss that was a micromanager, it sucks. You should consider trying to find another job, unless you haven't been there long. In the meantime, just do the best you can to meet his expectations and try not to let it get to you. I know it's easier said and done, but in the end, that's all you can do.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 1, 2014 11:02:26 GMT -5
::The only rule I'm breaking is accessing the internet a couple of minutes some days. I don't see it as a big deal.
He has seen me once in 8 months. I don't know if he's caught my co workers doing it or not, I never asked them . I know they use the internet and their cell phones sporadically, because I see them.::
You said he's quiet and sneaky, how do you know how many times he's caught you given that he didn't say anything when he caught you this time. It isn't up to you which of the company rules are big deals or not. It doesn't even mean I think it's a big deal, but you're complaining about how suspicious he is. Most of the time when people complain about someone who is suspicious, it's under the claim that they are suspicious for no reason because nothing is being done wrong. In your case, he's suspicious, and with good reason, because you're doing the very thing he is suspicious of.
It's like me coming on to complain about how suspicious and snoopy my wife is of my cell phone, always thinking I'm cheating and that the phone has evidence. And I am cheating, and the phone does have evidence, and she's found it before...but me still complaining about her snooping and how suspicious she is. There is paranoid suspicion, then there is well-founded and previously confirmed suspicion.
Don't get me wrong, if I was breaking the rules and getting caught, I'd be annoyed too. That doesn't mean I'm in the right for breaking the rules just because I don't like the rule. And it doesn't mean my manager is in the wrong because busting me breaking the rules annoys me.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Dec 2, 2014 19:03:01 GMT -5
At my tax season job, we can get on the internet during breaks/lunch but not on any social media sites. So if you are signed out as being on break or off the clock for lunch, it is okay. I only did it to buy concert tickets once last tax season and I did it on a break.
We are not allowed to have cell phones out either. They are to be turned off and out of sight except on breaks and lunch. Last tax season, I was given permission to have mine on vibrate because mom was so sick.
As far as micromanaging, the last place I worked in Colorado was the first time I had ever encountered that and it drove me up a wall. I was never told the woman was my manager, not ever, but she acted like she was. She would call me and the other administrative assistant in to the conference room 2 or 3 times a day to go over what we were doing and changing the order at the next meeting. It was awful. What was even worse about that job was the other administrative assistant spent most of the day online shopping. They kept her until right after April 15 and then fired her. Mine was a seasonal position so I was done April 15 and had no intentions of returning.
Ava, your manager has gone above and beyond in accommodating your needs regarding your MBA and the vacation you must have. You don't know if he is getting flack from above or not. Be thankful you have this job and do start looking for a better job after you return from your trip.
I am of the opinion you should be thankful for having the job. We all work tired at times and we all suck it up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 0:47:34 GMT -5
<<He had prohibited the whole team to talk on the phone, text or surf the web while on the job.>>
Why think you are above the rule? You get help to take time for school and then just ignore work rules. You have no care for this job, so why still there?
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Dec 4, 2014 7:55:20 GMT -5
Well, a few days have gone by and here I am, still working with him. Like many of you said, he accommodates my needs the best he can. When I initially approached him for vacation time he was very clear the maximum he could do for me was 2 1/2 weeks, not 3 weeks as I wanted. I know he doesn't get into trouble because of me, he tells me how far he's authorized to go. He's a good person and tries his best, I have no doubt about it. But I really cannot work long-term for someone like him; it makes me miserable. It's just his management style; he expects the worst from people, he's sneaky, he micromanages. I like managers that leave you alone and judge you on your performance. He once went so far as to ask me how long a lunch break my cubicle neighbor had taken. I told him I had no idea since I'm not a supervisor and I am not paying attention to what my teammates do with their breaks.
So, yes, I am doing my best by him. I am working really hard and one of the reasons I feel so frustrated is because someone left two months ago and he hasn't been able to replace that worker. A few people have come to interview for the job but he's not satisfied with any of them. Meanwhile the workload gets more and more out of control. I still go to the internet occasionally, and no offense but I doubt any of the people who say they never have broken any of the rules at work are being honest. Anyway, that's the way I am and I'm not going to change. I don't see it as a biggie.
If you have never worked for a micromanager, you don't have any idea how it is like. And like The Other Me said, they will change course, change rules, change your tasks several times during the week. It's not something I can do long term.
Why I'm still there? For the same reason everybody else is still at their job. I cannot change jobs right now with a graduation date of May and a geographical move for mid 2015. I am not going to start somewhere else for just a few months and then leave.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 4, 2014 8:02:30 GMT -5
Well, you can do something in the temporary. You have an exit plan so just work your plan.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Dec 4, 2014 21:10:47 GMT -5
If you have never worked for a micromanager, you don't have any idea how it is like. And like The Other Me said, they will change course, change rules, change your tasks several times during the week. It's not something I can do long term.
My micromanager was changing course with the workload several times a day. We had a morning meeting that was to plan the day's workload. By 9 AM, we'd be on our second meeting. Ava, I worked for the IRS and there was a code of conduct. If caught breaking any of those rules (not anything I found outrageous), you could be immediately terminated. That was in the days before the internet so I don't know what the policy is now. I did see people fired over stupid things because they got caught violating the code of conduct. That and travel voucher fraud were gimmes when it came to being able to fire people. My parents made us follow rules and I went from high school to the IRS, which had all these rules. I do follow rules. I am glad that we are allowed to get on the internet during lunch and breaks, but I don't do it often. We are not allowed to stream anything.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Dec 4, 2014 21:13:07 GMT -5
I could never work at a call center. I've had two friends who worked at call centers. One finally blew up at the supervisor one day over the really stupid rules and walked out. He said it was a daily occurrence and he was one of the people who had been there the longest. The other worked at one of those shopping network call centers and he got fired for taking too long on his calls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 23:17:16 GMT -5
"I doubt any of the people who say they never have broken any of the rules at work are being honest. "
I don't know if anybody said that. I go on the internet at work (we are not completely forbidden). I am sure i break rules all the time but i don't complain about getting caught knowing i am breaking them.
I did have a micromanager, yes it sucks. But ignoring is not the best way to deal with any work situation.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 5, 2014 6:48:52 GMT -5
And, my point about the Internet use is that I have personally seen people fired for using it. And, if you are working with a hostile manager then you have to ask yourself if it is worth losing your job to surf the net for a few minutes. If they expressly forbid it, then they are clearly telling you they have a bone to pick with people who do. But, that is your decision and most of the time, nobody cares as long as no one is abusing it. But I have seen very small Nothing type situations blown up into huge deals. Just saying that at work, it is much better to err on protecting yourself.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 5, 2014 7:02:09 GMT -5
Everything you do online is clearly tracked. But, my concern is that what if you are using it for innocent purposes and then some porn spam website pops up or you click on a link you didn't intend to or something like that? You could be easily made to look guilty for something in that regard. Why even expose yourself to that risk? And, do you want to have some meeting where they show you a history and say "Oh look, Sue has been surfing the Weather Channel and shopping at QVC on company time", etc?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 5, 2014 9:36:43 GMT -5
Not sure what to make of the extreme outrage on Ava accessing the internet. Sure - its against the rules - but it's a really minor thing
When you work with a paranoid micromanager the last thing you want to do is confirm their paranoia (at least in their minds).
So even if Ava thinks it is a silly rule, if the manager sneaks up behind her and sees her on the web, to him that means he's justified in his actions and will keep doing them.
I've never worked directly under a micromanager but I've collaborated with several. You shut up and do what you gotta do no matter how stupid or silly you think it is because otherwise you're just feeding the beast.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 5, 2014 9:51:12 GMT -5
OK, here goes...
It might not be about internet for the manager, but about respect. If "you" keep doing something you are not suppose to do, I would think most managers will see it as you don't respect their authority. Would YOU want to have an employee like that?
From various posts it comes off as OP is not treating this job very seriously or respectfully and my guess is it shows. Yes, she might be doing the actual work, but the attitude is very important too.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Dec 5, 2014 10:14:30 GMT -5
Not sure what to make of the extreme outrage on Ava accessing the internet. Sure - its against the rules - but it's a really minor thingWhen you work with a paranoid micromanager the last thing you want to do is confirm their paranoia (at least in their minds). So even if Ava thinks it is a silly rule, if the manager sneaks up behind her and sees her on the web, to him that means he's justified in his actions and will keep doing them. I've never worked directly under a micromanager but I've collaborated with several. You shut up and do what you gotta do no matter how stupid or silly you think it is because otherwise you're just feeding the beast. but what if you don't care? And - really - should you care? and if so - how much? Walking on eggshells gets old. If you don't care, you don't care. And you find another employment. Why bite the hand that pays the bills? Ava's boss might not be justified in what he is doing. But if he is in charge and expects something then Ava should follow. Or else find another job. If fellow employees are following the rule (no matter how grudgingly) then she needs to too.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 5, 2014 10:15:35 GMT -5
Ava has been getting a lot of extra time off simply thru the good graces of her manager. If she is deciding to ignore his rules he may decide since she has enough free time to surf the web at work then she doesn't need all that extra time he's been giving her.
IMO, if I want something from my boss that relies on his goodwill/generosity then I am going to have to care at least for as long as I need whatever it is I am after.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Dec 5, 2014 19:00:16 GMT -5
Actually, I haven't gotten any extra days off yet. The days off I've taken so far were covered by my annual PTO. Now I'm out of PTO. I'm going to take two days next week for my final exam in Operations Management, and the last week of the year as vacation. So, next week he'll start giving me extra days off. He hasn't done it so far. And by the way, it's all unpaid. He said he'll try to pay me regular and then take the days off my next year PTO to compensate. But I told him I prefer unpaid days off. I don't want to mess my next year's PTO. And it's not like I have a ton of PTO. It's 17 days for the year and that includes sick, personal, vacation, etc. The benefits in this company are bad. I've talked to other people in my MBA program who work at banks and they get 15 days vacation and 10 sick days.
He's not hostile. He's friendly and likes to sit with me with a cup of coffee and talk sometimes. He yelled at me once one day he was under lots of stress. He apologized the next day and I told him fine, but don't make it a habit. He hasn't yelled again since then. I had been there a couple of weeks when that happened.
I do the job, he's satisfied with my performance. I don't follow all his rules, and I don't pay him much attention. I don't care if it shows. He's good to me but I don't like his management style. He's paranoid and acts petty sometimes. I am not like that and I don't like to be surrounded by people who are like that. I am not good at pretending I like someone when I actually don't. I treat him with respect, that's it. I don't take him, the job or myself too seriously. I suffer from depression and I need to keep things light. If I get emotionally involved in negativity I go down pretty fast. I've changed my attitude, I don't worry anymore, and I am way happier this way. Besides, when someone is paranoid and you jump to accommodate him, it shows him you are scared and he can manipulate you.
My teammates also surf the net and talk and text on their phones. I see them sometimes. They don't abuse it. I don't abuse the internet.
I don't care about my job, it's just a boring job and I don't care if it shows. I am there to do it and I get a paycheck. That's it. I have good plans for my future and this workplace is just a stop. I have enough saved that I can weather it for the few months I have to stay in this state until I get my MBA. Of course, I prefer to remain employed and earn money instead of spending what I've saved for the move.
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justme
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Post by justme on Dec 5, 2014 19:12:09 GMT -5
I have my M.B.A. and only get 15 days. 17 would be nice and few would call that bad. Pretty sure both are above average.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 19:45:17 GMT -5
I get 15 vacation and 5 sick, but it took 5 years to get there, up until then it was 10 and 5. It's the same policy for all that work here whether they are techs like me or engineers or managers. It maxes out at 20 and 5, but you have to be here 15 years to get to that. I would be at that point, but I took a few years off in the middle and they started the clock over.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Dec 5, 2014 20:00:52 GMT -5
DH gets either 5 & 0 or 10 & 0, and is expected to work 45-50 he's/week.
It sucks.. He needs to get out of there, and it's only been 5 months so far.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Dec 6, 2014 18:26:06 GMT -5
I have my M.B.A. and only get 15 days. 17 would be nice and few would call that bad. Pretty sure both are above average. You are new at your job. I've been here 2 1/2 years. Besides, I am comparing my PTO to people who are in the same industry in a similar position but at other companies. I don't see it as being ungrateful, it's just informing yourself of what's the norm in the industry. Would you be happy if your company gave you considerably less than the average benefits for the industry?
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Dec 6, 2014 18:28:45 GMT -5
I get 15 vacation and 5 sick, but it took 5 years to get there, up until then it was 10 and 5. It's the same policy for all that work here whether they are techs like me or engineers or managers. It maxes out at 20 and 5, but you have to be here 15 years to get to that. I would be at that point, but I took a few years off in the middle and they started the clock over. That's tough. I used to get 2 weeks vacation at the cafeteria. By the time I graduated and changed job, I was this close to getting 3 weeks a year, plus 5 sick/personal days
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Dec 6, 2014 18:31:12 GMT -5
DH gets either 5 & 0 or 10 & 0, and is expected to work 45-50 he's/week.
It sucks.. He needs to get out of there, and it's only been 5 months so far. Yes, not a very good deal. And at only 5 months I guess he'll have to put up with it for a little while longer. But if that's what you have to do to put food on the table, I guess he'll do it. Sorry, hope he finds something better down the line.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 6, 2014 19:15:50 GMT -5
I have my M.B.A. and only get 15 days. 17 would be nice and few would call that bad. Pretty sure both are above average. You are new at your job. I've been here 2 1/2 years. Besides, I am comparing my PTO to people who are in the same industry in a similar position but at other companies. I don't see it as being ungrateful, it's just informing yourself of what's the norm in the industry. Would you be happy if your company gave you considerably less than the average benefits for the industry?
You accepted that as terms of your job.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Dec 6, 2014 19:50:59 GMT -5
You are new at your job. I've been here 2 1/2 years. Besides, I am comparing my PTO to people who are in the same industry in a similar position but at other companies. I don't see it as being ungrateful, it's just informing yourself of what's the norm in the industry. Would you be happy if your company gave you considerably less than the average benefits for the industry?
You accepted that as terms of your job. Yes, I did. I accepted that PTO when I started working here, 2 1/2 years ago, fresh out of school. But now I want to get a better job once I finish my MBA and I know what the average PTO is for the industry I'm in. So I'm going to try to get that for my next job. No anger, no resentment. I'm just informing myself of what's out there and I want to get as much as I can within the realm of possibility. If 15 vacation days plus 10 sick/personal is the average, then I'll try to get that. What's so wrong with trying to improve my circumstances?
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