thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 16, 2014 18:14:39 GMT -5
Two friends of mine (who are also friends with each other) are starting to get tangled together. One gal wants to start her own business and has asked the other gal to be the first client at a reduced rate. To me, this is the worst idea ever. At first the client thought it would be great to get some professional help at a fraction of the cost, but now she is thinking that this could be the end of a friendship. The client is very particular and I don't find her to be the best communicator. She is also terrified of hurting people's feelings, so she kind of holds it in until she blows and then it is a rager. Meanwhile, the "business owneris not trained or experienced but thinks she is awesome and can be super-dooper stubborn about her opinions. The client has been trying to blow her off, but the business owner is getting really aggressive about "helping" her - calling often, doing a lot of research and such. Categorically, I haven't done much business with friends. I am a hot-head, and I would rather not risk a friendship if I get mad that I didn't get enough value from a business transaction. But, I have had friends who would rather do business with friends than anyone else. They go out of their way to befriend people with businesses that benefit their lives. And, like me, they have friendships that come and go, and friendships that have hung on. Do you do business with people who were friends first? Have you had any problems where business ruins a friendship? How do you tactfully get out of working with people that are friends? I know y'all got some stories about this, and as always...the juicer the better.
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on Nov 16, 2014 18:34:41 GMT -5
Sorry, no juicy story here.
If I were approached about doing this, and it was not something that I could afford to do without (be that time or otherwise), I would tell the person No, it wasn't worth the possibility of hurting a friendship. To me, it's easier to not go there, than it is to get out of it.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Nov 16, 2014 18:35:13 GMT -5
I don't do business with friends and try to keep my personal business separate from clients. Some people in our office are all about the networking opportunities, but I'm not. So I don't have any good personal stories.
A client decided that while she was making really good money at her W-2 job, she wanted to start a business for when she would be retiring in a few years, basically a little tchotchke shop selling all sorts of little decorative items and junk. Not a good idea as dozens of those little shops have started and closed around here. She wouldn't listen, and decided to hire her BFF as the manager and main worker of the store since she was a stay at home spouse, her house was beautifully decorated and she thought since BFF was active in a number of women's groups that she could bring in business from all of her friends and grow the business from there. BFF decided to take the job at a pretty low wage as it would be fun, get her out of the house and she could show off "her" shop to all of her friends.
The client withdrew a couple hundred thousand from her retirement, ordered all sorts of stuff and got locked into a lease. Neither had any idea how to run a business, the manager learned that working wasn't all about making things pretty and there were a lot of mundane details and not so fun people to deal with. So she started feeling underpaid and underappreciated. The owner was feeling taken advantage of by her BFF. Inventory and cash started disappearing. Owner fired BFF. They're no longer BFFs. The business closed. Client is out several hundred thousand dollars and may have to delay retirement. Relationship with her husband is strained because he didn't want her to start the business. Fun was had by all.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 16, 2014 18:35:58 GMT -5
I don't like to do business with friends. It makes me uncomfortable so I generally don't. Especially if I am buying something. I feel like I don't want to negotiate or what if I find something I like better than what they are selling. I prefer not to deal with that.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Nov 16, 2014 18:55:04 GMT -5
The contractor who has done the majority of the renovations on my house was a friend first.
I absolutely love his work. I actually won't use any one else because I'm so particular and as DH says "No one else will work with you."
We keep everything on a professional level when he's doing work on the house. We probably have the most detailed contract you've ever seen. Any changes are written into the contract and billed accordingly. I don't get, nor do I expect any type of deal.
We also meet socially.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 16, 2014 19:02:30 GMT -5
If I were the friend/client, and seeing I would be the very first client, I would ask that the services be provided for free (depending on what is to be done) and only if I needed the services in the first place. I would think for a start up, a very good first reference would be more valuable than a first check for provided services.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 16, 2014 20:06:31 GMT -5
If I didn't have friends as clients I would have no business. I've only had one problem. She got over it.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Nov 16, 2014 20:16:15 GMT -5
If I didn't have friends as clients I would have no business. I've only had one problem. She got over it. My EX's uncle used to say you do business with your friends and relatives. Your enemies won't deal with you. But I don't have one friend on the face of the earth that I would go into business with. Same reason I don't loan money to friends, BTDT and it backfired.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 16, 2014 20:36:20 GMT -5
Some of my clients turn into friends..Next summer, as part of vacation, we're going to a cabin my client owns (my client and her family will be there as well). We are all very excited about it.
I've had some of my clients end up baby-sitting my kids. They've come to watch my kids receive sacraments (and party afterwards). I go to HS graduations, etc.
My clients also know each other pretty well, because most of my business is gotten by word of mouth.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Nov 16, 2014 21:35:50 GMT -5
I prefer not to do business with friends. However, on occasion my husband has done some projects with some friends but we have followed my father in laws advice in that regard:
"Be prepared to walk away". Basically, do not invest more than you can afford to lose. Most of these projects the only thing lost is time so on occasion when we have had to leave it it has not cost a friendship.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Nov 16, 2014 21:42:34 GMT -5
DH had a retail business for 20 years. You do business with anyone who walks in the door.
Many of our "friends" - most were more like acquaintances - would try to take advantage of our friendship. Like coming in and telling the employees " I know DH and he said that he would give me a good deal (usually something for nothing)" or "He said it was ok if I paid you later".
We tried to treat everyone the same. Really found out who would try to take advantage of us.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Nov 16, 2014 23:23:47 GMT -5
My CPA is the only one that would qualify as a friend, but we were friends more in HS/College and I don't see him outside of business these days. I avoided going that route at first, but most of the small business CPAs that I was talking to were idiots. I'm a pretty easy client for him and I just pay whatever their rate is, I don't get any discounts and I don't expect to.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 17, 2014 6:37:58 GMT -5
It depends on the business per se. If am buying something like a car or appliance or something like that, I feel a bit too influenced using a friend because I feel that I don't look at my purchase objectively and of course then if I don't buy from them, that feels uncomfortable. But, I don't mind friends for other types of business like a nurse or doctor. Or, the realtor I use is a good friend, etc.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 17, 2014 8:17:24 GMT -5
You would be smart to stay out of it and let the two of them figure it out themselves.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 17, 2014 8:55:04 GMT -5
Thyme, this does seem to be headed for trouble. the client friend needs to tell aggressive that she is no longer interested but seems her personality won't be that direct? I told her to find a way to be gentle but direct - just say that due to budget constraints, the whole thing is off or something. And...now that I have said that, I guarantee they will end up doing business together. My friend (the client) has not taken one single piece of advice from me, ever. Sometimes I give her advice just to watch her do something completely different. LOL. It doesn't bother me - it cracks me up. I know my role is "listener" and she lets me give advice at the end because I have to speak at least a little in this friendship. Absolutely. Luckily, I can maintain my spectator status and just watch this go down.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 9:13:54 GMT -5
I'll become friends with people I do business with but I avoid doing business with friends. The expectations are totally different depending on which came first.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 17, 2014 9:26:26 GMT -5
I have actually considered doing business with a guy I have been friendly with since college. It is the kind of "friendship" that I wouldn't miss. So - low risk on that part.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 17, 2014 9:32:00 GMT -5
OK, so I know this is COMPLETELY OT - but I just wanted to say - thyme4change - I am always so amazed by how honestly and bluntly you always described yourself. Your posts always struck me as so very open. Anyway, I've been meaning to say that for awhile....
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Nov 17, 2014 9:34:37 GMT -5
One of my closest friends is our mechanic. Never any issues. BIL is our insurance guy; again, no issues. Hubs manages an apparel print shop and will help friends/family with pricing if they ever need (mechanic friend wanting company sweatshirts for his shop employees or an acquaintance who needed shirts for a 5k she organized, for example). I do professional licensure. I'm useless to friends. I will help write resumes, though.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 17, 2014 9:43:09 GMT -5
OK, so I know this is COMPLETELY OT - but I just wanted to say - thyme4change - I am always so amazed by how honestly and bluntly you always described yourself. Your posts always struck me as so very open. Anyway, I've been meaning to say that for awhile.... LOL - not necessarily the first time I've heard this, but I'm curious as to what specifically sparked this. Is it the way I describe the relationship with my friend (the client)? Or, the way I just negated a relationship (college friend) I've had for 25 years?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 17, 2014 9:53:06 GMT -5
OK, so I know this is COMPLETELY OT - but I just wanted to say - thyme4change - I am always so amazed by how honestly and bluntly you always described yourself. Your posts always struck me as so very open. Anyway, I've been meaning to say that for awhile.... LOL - not necessarily the first time I've heard this, but I'm curious as to what specifically sparked this. Is it the way I describe the relationship with my friend (the client)? Or, the way I just negated a relationship (college friend) I've had for 25 years? I'm not trying to speak for whoisjohngalt, but I appreciate you because you are so honest and upfront about your faults. Most people can't bear to think they are wrong about something, or could have handled something better. And your humor.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 17, 2014 10:14:23 GMT -5
OK, so I know this is COMPLETELY OT - but I just wanted to say - thyme4change - I am always so amazed by how honestly and bluntly you always described yourself. Your posts always struck me as so very open. Anyway, I've been meaning to say that for awhile.... LOL - not necessarily the first time I've heard this, but I'm curious as to what specifically sparked this. Is it the way I describe the relationship with my friend (the client)? Or, the way I just negated a relationship (college friend) I've had for 25 years? No, it's when you said you were a hot-headed. I don't know if I am conveying my feelings well, but your posts are so refreshing and so open and it gives me the feeling that you really know who you are and very comfortoable with it. Obviously, it's not just from this thread. It's how you always describe your weaknesses and your strenght and your relationship with your husband and your other family memebers. anyway......sorry for hi-jacking LOL
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 17, 2014 10:15:14 GMT -5
LOL - not necessarily the first time I've heard this, but I'm curious as to what specifically sparked this. Is it the way I describe the relationship with my friend (the client)? Or, the way I just negated a relationship (college friend) I've had for 25 years? I'm not trying to speak for whoisjohngalt, but I appreciate you because you are so honest and upfront about your faults. Most people can't bear to think they are wrong about something, or could have handled something better. And your humor.
And let me add - it's not just that - there is no pretense and no "game" in it. Does it make sense?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 10:41:30 GMT -5
That's the way you end up on Judge Judy!!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 17, 2014 10:45:48 GMT -5
That's the way you end up on Judge Judy!! Exactly!! LOL
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 17, 2014 20:02:35 GMT -5
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 17, 2014 20:58:09 GMT -5
swamp and whoisjohngalt - when you have a few public outbursts, you figure out that you can't deny your anger. I tried to "fix" myself, and I am definitely more in control now then when I was younger. But, I decided to just go with it and be who I am. If I can keep my anger limited to things that really matter - all the other stuff will just wash away over time. It brings a little peace into my life. Now I can worry about important stuff - like pointing out everyone else's personality flaws. ooohhh, do tell!!! I love a good "public outburst" story
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 17, 2014 21:28:25 GMT -5
Meh - nothing really exciting. I blew my top at work a couple of times - not good for the career. Yelled at a friend for not having the same opinion as me on something stupid. You know - dumb stuff like that. Oh - I told the lady at the bank "they" were f**king idiots. Not my shining moment. I feel bad - it wasn't her fault that her company is stupid, I hope she was able to feel superior and whatever, rather than depressed that her job exposed her to jerks like me.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 17, 2014 22:32:17 GMT -5
Meh - nothing really exciting. I blew my top at work a couple of times - not good for the career. Yelled at a friend for not having the same opinion as me on something stupid. You know - dumb stuff like that. Oh - I told the lady at the bank "they" were f**king idiots. Not my shining moment. I feel bad - it wasn't her fault that her company is stupid, I hope she was able to feel superior and whatever, rather than depressed that her job exposed her to jerks like me. I am not going to tell you why, but I feel so close to you know
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 17, 2014 23:06:13 GMT -5
LOL I'm guessing you are a kindred spirit
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