Business Owners - Your Stories?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Nov 6, 2014 11:14:29 GMT -5 Firebird said:

milee, Ryan, @wxyz, deantrip, Sum Dum Gai, swamp, AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP... I *think* you all own businesses.  And I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of people - hopefully other posters can tag the people I missed. 

I would love to hear some of your stories on when/why/how you started your own businesses, whether they succeeded or failed (or are as yet unknown).  I think it would be interesting to those of us who have only played with the idea. 

Some random questions to get us rolling...

1)  When did you start your business?  How old were you? 

2)  What made you decide to go for it?  What was your main reason(s) for wanting to be a business owner instead of an employee?  (Also, if you feel like saying, what is your business?)

3)  Did you have a partner/family at the time?  How did you balance your personal life while you were starting the business?

4)  Has the business met your expectations?  Surpassed them?  Nowhere close?

5)  What was your start up investment?

6)  Would you do it all again?

Started my first business when I was 14 doing anything and everything for people in my neighborhood- from mowing lawns, raking leaves, to dusting mini blinds, washing cars, and running errands.  When I turned 16, I thought it was "time to get a job" so I went and worked for a grocery store- union job.  I was used to hustling- moving, getting shit done.  I went from that to "mandatory" breaks, freaking everyone out by being "too productive" because it raised expectations and made everyone look bad.  Then I found out the REAL downside of a job-- all that time wasted, and no freaking money!  Went back and hit the bricks doing whatever for cash.

Joined the Navy, and decided it was "time to grow up".  Decided I'd need a "real job", and who wants to mow lawns and wash cars when they're 40, 50, 60 years old?  Got out of the Navy and couldn't get a "real job".  Did anything and everything-- ended up working three jobs- maintenance on a golf course (free golf- not like I had time), marketing for a local car dealer, and running pizzas at night.  Got a house-sitting gig and moved back to Chicagoland (literally, the worst decision I've ever made- supposed to be temporary, then back south.  Wife got cozy there, 14 years later finally dragged her down here-- the heel marks are still on fire).  Anyhoo- did a bunch of crap in IL- hospitality, mutual fund company, production, back to financial services on the wholesale side-- and that was when, in 1998, someone handed me a copy of Rich Dad, Poor Dad.  I started reading like crazy- found these boards, did some real estate deals, started a landscape materials company wholesaling mulch and what not to contractors, read The E-Myth, and many other books, started and ran the largest entrepreneur / real estate club in Chicago-- The Windy City Round Table-- long gone now.  Put the final stake in that thing in 2006.

What really made me decide to go full time was getting fired from Morgan Stanley about a year after 9.11.  I had just completed a wholesale real estate deal- contract assignment- well into the five figures-- about half my previous annual salary, and I looked at that, and the time it took (mainly the time it didn't take-- like half the freaking year), and decided I really couldn't afford to get a job.  From 2002 - 2006 I enjoyed a great run as a wholesaler- getting properties under contract and taking a fee to assign the contract to another party.  I specialized in obtaining tear down candidates for contractors by posing as myself- an individual- instead of a builder because people get all emotional about selling if they think you're going to tear it down.  Shouldn't, but they do.  After the crash, I was fortunate not to have been stuck with a single contract and I had some cash laying around and I went to see a friend in Indiana and started finding houses for like $2,000 - $12,000.  I had mortgage payments that big every month on some Illinois properties.  I sold everything in Illinois and started the low-income rental portfolio.  You do the math: buy a house for $15,000 (including rehab and fees) and rent it for $450 per month.  Buy a house for $8,500, rent for $600 per month.  You get the idea.

Fell into insurance claims adjusting, absolutely loved it- I already excelled at consulting, which is really all this is.  Worked a few storms, formed an entity, and began building a team and getting business.

I used to have partners.  2 were incompetent, 1 was a downright criminal, and now I have none-- I still do JV's from time to time, but no one runs my business but me anymore.  Well, me and Jesus- if I have to name a partner.

I'm right about where I expected to be.  Selling off all properties up north, going into multi-family down here in Florida, and making private mortgage loans to other investors for passive income.  About to enter into a juicy contract to do an enormous number of commercial risk inspections statewide in Florida, and that will be nice.

I've done and continue to do a lot of stuff.  I do weird crap that just comes along, some of it turns out well, some breaks even but is fun, and sometimes I do something stupid-- though I have thus far resisted the temptation to buy a power boat or a plane.  We do have a sailboat which I haven't even visited in over a year.

The startup investment for my first "real" business- the mulch thing- was $15,000 plus some misc. fees and taxes to the state.

Do it all again?  It's hard to say-- I make a habit of not looking back.  I think I'd never have partners again.  My real estate / entrepreneurs club was practically a charity-- I'd rip people's heads off for information if I had it to do over again.  I'd put the highest priced guru you've ever heard of to shame with what I'd charge.  I still run a professional networking group with monthly conference calls that is $1,700 a year to join.  I have been asked to do events, and I think my starting price to do training and networking events again would be somewhere in the $10,000 to $25,000 range.  And yes- people can, and do pay that to go to events.  I went to an event one year myself which was $30,000 a head- I got in for $15,000 because I brought two people.  Would I do the mulch business? Probably wouldn't waste my time with it, so I'd have to guess no- I probably wouldn't.  I would never have gotten a job, never joined the Navy, and never set foot on a college campus knowing what I know today.

[milee]

It's been interesting to read the stories of other business owners. A few trends and a few differences are emerging.

Similarities:

Many of us have had bad experiences running a business with a partner.  I was burned by one partner in an earlier business startup (never got off the ground) and had one partner where business worked out fine but it was hard on the friendship. Like Regis and WCP, I will never again go into business with a partner. There might be a scenario where I'd consider a minority investor with a well defined contract but never an equal partner.

Like WCP and a few others, my successful business venture was not my first. We were poor growing up, so early on I was running small "businesses" for cash and then working at W2 jobs. All of them, even the ones that didn't make much money, were great learning experiences. I don't think my current business would have been as successful and might not have survived its first year without me having the skills I'd learned from all those other experiences.

Differences:

Not all of us hated working for others or think W2 jobs were worthless. I've had W2 jobs I really enjoyed and would be happy to still be doing and think that I learned many valuable things even from some of the crappy jobs.  A W2 job is not a waste nor does it hold less value, it's all in how you view it and what your needs are at the time.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I didn't hate my job. My job at Morgan Stanley was actually pretty cool; and I'm not gonna lie: I LOVED bartending. Actually gave serious consideration to becoming a professional fine-dining bartender as a career. I used to haul in $400 to $1,200 a night and I only worked three nights a week. I've always said if I hit the skids, I could always go back to bartending. I do NOT however want to own a bar-- well, I take that back. I wouldn't mind owning it, but I don't want to manage it. I want to be the bartender, report to the manager, and have nobody be the wiser.

[Firebird]

Another trend I see with you guys is a willingness to work incredibly hard - two or three (or more) jobs, working the business in the middle of the night after your day job, etc. 

No doubt in my mind that working a day job forever is not only safer but much easier

[milee]

Nov 11, 2014 13:21:32 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Another trend I see with you guys is a willingness to work incredibly hard - two or three (or more) jobs, working the business in the middle of the night after your day job, etc. 

No doubt in my mind that working a day job forever is not only safer but much easier

Yes, putting in massive hours is the norm for most entrepreneurs. Not sure if it's necessarily harder, though, if you look at things over a 20 year period. There were many years where I worked insane hours (and frankly that was tough), but now I have a pretty cushy life at a fairly young age. No more 9-5 grind, lots of flexibility, freedom and income to really enjoy my children and all sorts of fun activities. So it can balance out over time. But that's one of the points I keep trying to make in Dark's thread - a big reason you do the Herculean effort up front is to build something that not only makes money but allows you to coast some at the back end. If there's no potential payout that's large enough to ever let you enjoy the cushy back end, it would be awfully hard to justify the huge amount of hours required to get a business going. Big effort is justified by the potential of big reward.

[Firebird]

milee, that's the problem I see with starting my own business (on my own, or with my husband).  I don't see either of us having a high-level skill set that would eventually give us a decent return.  Frankly, we're probably better off working for other people. 

I wouldn't actually mind the hard work itself but I would definitely mind that level of hard work for that long with no possibility of making a comfortable living with less effort down the line. 

[milee]

Nov 11, 2014 14:39:32 GMT -5 Firebird said:

milee, that's the problem I see with starting my own business (on my own, or with my husband).  I don't see either of us having a high-level skill set that would eventually give us a decent return.  Frankly, we're probably better off working for other people.  And there's nothing wrong with that - in fact, in most cases that's the smart choice. 

I wouldn't actually mind the hard work itself but I would definitely mind that level of hard work for that long with no possibility of making a comfortable living with less effort down the line.  Very, very smart choice to understand the risk/reward potential and make a decision accordingly. 

[aprilleigh]

Nov 6, 2014 11:14:29 GMT -5 Firebird said:

milee, Ryan, @wxyz, deantrip, Sum Dum Gai, swamp, AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP... I *think* you all own businesses.  And I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of people - hopefully other posters can tag the people I missed. 

I would love to hear some of your stories on when/why/how you started your own businesses, whether they succeeded or failed (or are as yet unknown).  I think it would be interesting to those of us who have only played with the idea. 

Some random questions to get us rolling...


1)  When did you start your business?  How old were you?  Started January of 2005. We were both 22. Our business partners were 2-3 years older.

2)  What made you decide to go for it?  What was your main reason(s) for wanting to be a business owner instead of an employee?  (Also, if you feel like saying, what is your business?) Our friend got to talking to the owners of this tiny coffee shop, tucked in next to an antique mall. The wife was expecting a baby, and they needed to get out of their lease. I had worked at a coffee shop during college, and I LOVED it. I loved the process of making drinks, and the energy. I was actually still / on & off going to college for my accounting degree, so OF COURSE 22 year old me new all about running a business... snort. Looking back, OMG we were so dumb. We had no money, no experience, no reason for starting a business. It just sort of fell into our laps, and we said "Why not?"

3)  Did you have a partner/family at the time?  How did you balance your personal life while you were starting the business? There were 4 of us: myself, my husband, and our 2 good friends / youth pastors/ mentors (also married). I had another job (well, 2) at the time. My husband worked at the shop full time. The other husband was the full-time youth pastor at our church, and wasn't really involved in the day to day operations. The other wife and I switched Sundays.  I did everything "business" related. It consumed EVERYTHING. 

4)  Has the business met your expectations?  Surpassed them?  Nowhere close? Nope. We closed in November of 2005. The city started up this whole "beautification" process, and tore up the street right in front of our shop. It was supposed to be for like 2 weeks, and ended up being like 3 months. So we were 1 block off of a major intersection in our city, but traffic was detoured around us. Also, our business partners decided to have a baby, then move back to California to be closer to their families in September. We were making so little money at that time that my husband couldn't cash his paychecks from August on. And this was his full-time job. 

5)  What was your start up investment? Less than $10,000? The previous owners left all of the equipment (SUPER nice Espresso machine, drip coffee maker, soup pot, fridges, sandwich bar, coolers, soda machine). Our main costs to open were for food. I guess it wasn't so much start up investment, but ongoing operations that we needed more money for. I ended up borrowing $6000 from my grandparents, and we JUST got into a position to pay them back and they told me they wrote it off years ago. We still had other loans / credit cards / rentals that were personally guaranteed. That sucked. But we ended up with a hell of a loss on our taxes!

6)  Would you do it all again? That's tough... It was the crappiest situation when we were in it, but it has absolutely shaped our lives going forward. We've been broke, and hated it, and decided we were going to do everything we could to not be in that position again. And that's how I found the old MSN boards: searching for help for paying off debt, cutting costs, saving money... all that YM stuff! I used to have a goal of opening another coffee shop before I turned 40, but now I'm not sure I want that responsibility again. Maybe if I win the lottery and don't NEED the business to succeed. Currently I'm basically just working because I have EXCELLENT health insurance at my job. Maybe if my husband climbs the ladder enough to cover the cost of the insurance, then I'd work at a coffee shop just for fun. 

I think that answered all the questions! It's been bittersweet, remembering all this.  

[Firebird]

Sounds like quite the roller coaster ride, aprilleigh! 

(We're pretty close in age... I'm very happy we're going to be meeting up soon!)

[midjd]

I have a failed business story, sort of...

DH is very into woodworking and makes a lot of signs, chairs, etc. for friends and family members. Somewhere along the line he got the idea to sell his creations for some extra cash (all his "allowance" and any other extra money he earns goes into his Jeep Wrangler). He is a talented artist and gets a ton of responses whenever he posts an ad. He even had business cards made up with one of his chairs on them. But he charges so little and is such a perfectionist that I'm guessing he ends up earning maybe $3 per hour in labor costs.

He enjoys making things, so it works out well to give him a little extra spending money -- but there is no way he would ever charge enough to make it a viable business. And he has no concept of how much time something takes when he's "in the zone." The last sign he made, he charged $50 and estimated that it would cost him about $15 in materials and take 90 minutes. It took him most of a Saturday -- at least 6 hours. (The customer loved it and proceeded to request another 3 signs -- which means he's going to spend all weekend downstairs for about $100 ). 

[milee]

Can't remember if it's The E Myth or The E Myth Revisited but one of them does a great job of explaining why it's not usually a good job to try to turn your passion or things you love doing (even if you're really talented at the thing you love) into a business.  There's a great example of a woman who really loves making pies and makes such good pies that everybody tells her she should open a business making pies. The book then goes on to give really clear, easily understandable explanations of how making pies (even the best pies in the world!) is a very different skill set than running a business and how much more sense it makes most people to either work for another business making pies or to just keep making pies on a "civilian" basis.  I think if 100% of all would-be business owners were to read the book, a good portion of the businesses that fail would not have opened to begin with - saving many people countless time and grief.

The book also does a good job of distinguishing between creating a business and buying yourself a job, plus the huge economic differences between them and why buying yourself a job is much more economically risky and usually pays you less than just working a job for another business.

Good stuff in there.  Well worth reading for anyone thinking about starting a business. 

[Firebird]

There's a great example of a woman who really loves making pies and makes such good pies that everybody tells her she should open a business making pies. The book then goes on to give really clear, easily understandable explanations of how making pies (even the best pies in the world!) is a very different skill set than running a business and how much more sense it makes most people to either work for another business making pies or to just keep making pies on a "civilian" basis.



I'm slightly obsessed with MasterChef right now (the junior version of it, which I like 1000x better than the adult version, is two weeks into its second season) and at first I wondered why all these fantastic home cooks didn't own restaurants or at least work in restaurants.

After watching a few episodes - question answered.  I know it's a reality show but even so, I am really unimpressed by their overall lack of professionalism or willingness to take constructive criticism.  I can't see 90% of them even running a professional kitchen, let alone their own business.  Even the few who seem like they could be great chefs don't strike me as having the necessary skills to own and operate a successful restaurant.  They're just such very different things.  But a bunch of them seem to have the idea that if they can cook well enough, having their own restaurant will just happen. 

The kids are a little different.  Their composure and maturity is very impressive.  If they're this professional at 8-13 years of age, I can completely imagine them having the discipline to make a career for themselves in the culinary world.  Even so, that doesn't mean they'll have the necessary skills to own a restaurant.  Most of them would probably be pretty happy as sous chefs for really fine restaurants.

[Firebird]

The book also does a good job of distinguishing between creating a business and buying yourself a job, plus the huge economic differences between them and why buying yourself a job is much more economically risky and usually pays you less than just working a job for another business.

My own reason for not wanting to turn my hobby into a profession is a little different - I just don't think it would be fun anymore.

A lot of people have told me that I should write professionally / publish a novel / etc.  Aside from that being a really tough field to break into, it's just not really something I want.  Writing for me has proven to be a very cyclical thing.  There have been many years in my life where I basically couldn't sleep until I had churned out 20+ pages a day.  There have also been a lot of years (like this one) where I hardly write at all.

I've had several blogs and they always go defunct after awhile because I simply don't have the desire or drive to keep up with them.  I like having the freedom to write or not write as the mood strikes me.  Even if I do have the talent to go further, I just don't want to put myself in a position where something I love to do becomes something I HAVE to do. 

Obviously writing for a living is different from owning a business but just thought I'd throw that out there too because in addition to the reasons the E-Myth gives, I've always thought that turning a hobby into a moneymaker would suck a lot of joy out of it for many people. 

[OldCoyote]

1. Started my first business in 1972, 26 yo. dealing with laundromats,  Starved for 4 years, Bailed out took a good paying job in Wyoming.

Took 1 year to get financially well, acquired interest in a silver mine in Colorado, had the opportunity to sell, took the money and ran.

Worked for others until 1988 when I started my present co. A business to business service co. 

I do not advertize and have not a phone listing for 18 years now,  Many of my customers have been with me for the entire 26 years,  I have more business than I can handle. 

Along the way I had some side companies.

One was a dry cleaner that I built and ran,  that cost me over $200,000 before it was over. Two of the happiest days of my life were the day I opened the drycleaner and the day I sold that store.

[OldCoyote]

Another note, started in 1988 with $500. invested in the co. Profitable in the first two weeks.

[tskeeter]

Nov 12, 2014 14:32:20 GMT -5 midjd said:

I have a failed business story, sort of...

DH is very into woodworking and makes a lot of signs, chairs, etc. for friends and family members. Somewhere along the line he got the idea to sell his creations for some extra cash (all his "allowance" and any other extra money he earns goes into his Jeep Wrangler). He is a talented artist and gets a ton of responses whenever he posts an ad. He even had business cards made up with one of his chairs on them. But he charges so little and is such a perfectionist that I'm guessing he ends up earning maybe $3 per hour in labor costs.

He enjoys making things, so it works out well to give him a little extra spending money -- but there is no way he would ever charge enough to make it a viable business. And he has no concept of how much time something takes when he's "in the zone." The last sign he made, he charged $50 and estimated that it would cost him about $15 in materials and take 90 minutes. It took him most of a Saturday -- at least 6 hours. (The customer loved it and proceeded to request another 3 signs -- which means he's going to spend all weekend downstairs for about $100 ). 

Look at it this way.  Everything he sells pays for the materials he bought to build it.  May not pay for his time, or tool purchases.  But it's something he enjoys and it keeps him in projects.  If he wasn't selling his projects, he'd be giving them away.  So you'd be absorbing the cost of the materials in addition to the other costs of DH's hobby business.

Guys like your DH is why most woodworkers can't charge enough to make a living at it.  Your DH and his peers will charge enought to cover their material cost and give away their time.  This establishes the selling price that professional woodworkers must complete with.  So, with the exception of a very few people, woodworking just doesn't pay the bills.  Be happy that DH appears to be satisifed to have woodowrking as a hobby, rather than believing it can be his primary source of income. 

[Ryan]

Nov 13, 2014 14:31:16 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Nov 12, 2014 14:32:20 GMT -5 midjd said:

I have a failed business story, sort of...

DH is very into woodworking and makes a lot of signs, chairs, etc. for friends and family members. Somewhere along the line he got the idea to sell his creations for some extra cash (all his "allowance" and any other extra money he earns goes into his Jeep Wrangler). He is a talented artist and gets a ton of responses whenever he posts an ad. He even had business cards made up with one of his chairs on them. But he charges so little and is such a perfectionist that I'm guessing he ends up earning maybe $3 per hour in labor costs.

He enjoys making things, so it works out well to give him a little extra spending money -- but there is no way he would ever charge enough to make it a viable business. And he has no concept of how much time something takes when he's "in the zone." The last sign he made, he charged $50 and estimated that it would cost him about $15 in materials and take 90 minutes. It took him most of a Saturday -- at least 6 hours. (The customer loved it and proceeded to request another 3 signs -- which means he's going to spend all weekend downstairs for about $100 ). 

Look at it this way.  Everything he sells pays for the materials he bought to build it.  May not pay for his time, or tool purchases.  But it's something he enjoys and it keeps him in projects.  If he wasn't selling his projects, he'd be giving them away.  So you'd be absorbing the cost of the materials in addition to the other costs of DH's hobby business.

Guys like your DH is why most woodworkers can't charge enough to make a living at it.  Your DH and his peers will charge enought to cover their material cost and give away their time.  This establishes the selling price that professional woodworkers must complete with.  So, with the exception of a very few people, woodworking just doesn't pay the bills.  Be happy that DH appears to be satisifed to have woodowrking as a hobby, rather than believing it can be his primary source of income. 

This is kind of like quilting.  I love quilts...my MIL has made like 8 of them for our house over the years.  I was in NC looking around a downtown shop and saw that quilts were selling for something like $100 or $150.  So I really like being GIVEN quilts...I just wouldn't pay that much for them.  

[milee]

Nov 13, 2014 14:31:16 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Nov 12, 2014 14:32:20 GMT -5 midjd said:

Guys like your DH is why most woodworkers can't charge enough to make a living at it.  

Take out the word "woodworkers" and substitute any fun hobby and you've got the reason so many small businesses based on hobbies or things people like fail. 

Guys like ___are why most restaurants can't charge enough to make a go of it.  (People think they're a great cook and owning a restaurant will be fun.  So you're not just having to know how to actually run a business to succeed, you're competing with all the numbskulls that think they can keep their door open by charging just a little bit more than the food costs them.)

Guys like ___ are why bed and breakfasts are so tough to make profitable.  (People think it would be fun to have a B&B plus they'll get to live in a great house, so what could possibly go wrong?  That's who your competition is.)

And on and on and on.  It's one of the biggest issues you have to deal with if you want to try to compete in a field that people find fun, glamorous or at all appealing - you're competing with the people who are doing it because they like it and don't really know how to price it out. 

[milee]

Nov 13, 2014 14:55:53 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Nov 13, 2014 14:31:16 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Look at it this way.  Everything he sells pays for the materials he bought to build it.  May not pay for his time, or tool purchases.  But it's something he enjoys and it keeps him in projects.  If he wasn't selling his projects, he'd be giving them away.  So you'd be absorbing the cost of the materials in addition to the other costs of DH's hobby business.

Guys like your DH is why most woodworkers can't charge enough to make a living at it.  Your DH and his peers will charge enought to cover their material cost and give away their time.  This establishes the selling price that professional woodworkers must complete with.  So, with the exception of a very few people, woodworking just doesn't pay the bills.  Be happy that DH appears to be satisifed to have woodowrking as a hobby, rather than believing it can be his primary source of income. 

This is kind of like quilting.  I love quilts...my MIL has made like 8 of them for our house over the years.  I was in NC looking around a downtown shop and saw that quilts were selling for something like $100 or $150.  So I really like being GIVEN quilts...I just wouldn't pay that much for them.  

And the really sad thing is that if you were to price out how many hours went into making those quilts, the person who made them is probably not even making $5 an hour...

[ArchietheDragon]

Nov 13, 2014 14:59:39 GMT -5 milee said:

Nov 13, 2014 14:31:16 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Guys like your DH is why most woodworkers can't charge enough to make a living at it.  

And on and on and on.  It's one of the biggest issues you have to deal with if you want to try to compete in a field that people find fun, glamorous or at all appealing - you're competing with the people who are doing it because they like it and don't really know how to price it out. 

There should be a law against going into a business in which you enjoy....    Come on.  The rest of us hate our jobs.  Small business owners should too. 

[milee]

Nov 13, 2014 15:12:05 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Nov 13, 2014 14:59:39 GMT -5 milee said:

And on and on and on.  It's one of the biggest issues you have to deal with if you want to try to compete in a field that people find fun, glamorous or at all appealing - you're competing with the people who are doing it because they like it and don't really know how to price it out. 

There should be a law against going into a business in which you enjoy....    Come on.  The rest of us hate our jobs.  Small business owners should too. 

Yeah, it sucks but most of the really profitable businesses were in odd industries.

[Ryan]

Nov 13, 2014 14:59:39 GMT -5 milee said:

Nov 13, 2014 14:31:16 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Guys like your DH is why most woodworkers can't charge enough to make a living at it.  

Take out the word "woodworkers" and substitute any fun hobby and you've got the reason so many small businesses based on hobbies or things people like fail. 

Guys like ___are why most restaurants can't charge enough to make a go of it.  (People think they're a great cook and owning a restaurant will be fun.  So you're not just having to know how to actually run a business to succeed, you're competing with all the numbskulls that think they can keep their door open by charging just a little bit more than the food costs them.)

Guys like ___ are why bed and breakfasts are so tough to make profitable.  (People think it would be fun to have a B&B plus they'll get to live in a great house, so what could possibly go wrong?  That's who your competition is.)

And on and on and on.  It's one of the biggest issues you have to deal with if you want to try to compete in a field that people find fun, glamorous or at all appealing - you're competing with the people who are doing it because they like it and don't really know how to price it out. 

Photography is the biggest example I can think of.  Ever since digital cameras became available, professional photographers have taken a bath.  And ever since "lifestyle' photography became more popular, traditional photographers are just getting killed.  The funny thing is that they claim to have all this superior knowledge and skill, but the end result is what matters.  I don't care if you spent 10 years in a darkroom developing pictures!

During 2011 and 2012, we took fall photos in our yard with all the pretty colors and leaves falling.  It was nice, but it was getting a little old to have the same type of scenery.  Now this year, it must've peaked because if you went through a walk through the forest preserve in Oct, you'd just find literally 5 different photo sessions going on.  I wonder if we'll look back at that and people will say "Wow, that picture looks really 2014ish!!!"

[Firebird]

The funny thing is that they claim to have all this superior knowledge and skill, but the end result is what matters. I don't care if you spent 10 years in a darkroom developing pictures!



A few months before I gave birth to Babybird, a work colleague asked me if she could come to my house to take pictures of my weird kitty cat.  She was starting a photography business and wanted to build her portfolio, so no charge.  I said sure. 

The pictures were really amazing.  Girl's got skillz.  A few months later, she volunteered to do a newborn shoot for Babybird since she had just been to a conference on newborn shoots.  Again, amazing.

So I asked her to do another shoot in six months and told her I'd pay for this one since it was her third.  I can't remember exactly but I think I paid her around $500 for the digitals, her time and a few very amazing, very expensive canvas prints that we used as Christmas presents.

Here's where it gets weird:  She came when Babybird was a year old to do another shoot for us.  I told her to let me know the total so I could pay her (we didn't plan to order prints this time, I just really wanted to do newborn/6 month/12 month shoots).  She never got back to me with a total.  I've never been able to figure that out - why wouldn't she want to get paid?

I texted her a few days ago to see if she'd be interested in doing another shoot for us (I need some decent shots of Babybird again for presents).  I reminded her that I still owed her for last time.  No response.

I'm guessing that she's gotten busy with other stuff and moved on from photography.  Which is a shame because honestly, she was as good or better than our wedding photographer. 

Still doesn't explain why she didn't want to be paid for the job she did

[Iggy aka IG]

Nov 6, 2014 11:14:29 GMT -5 Firebird said:

1)  When did you start your business?  How old were you? 

2)  What made you decide to go for it?  What was your main reason(s) for wanting to be a business owner instead of an employee?  (Also, if you feel like saying, what is your business?)

3)  Did you have a partner/family at the time?  How did you balance your personal life while you were starting the business?

4)  Has the business met your expectations?  Surpassed them?  Nowhere close?

5)  What was your start up investment?

6)  Would you do it all again?

Hi there, late to the thread, but I can contribute to the conversation:

1.  2003-opened an insurance agency in my mid-30's.  I was, and still am, considered a young agent.

2.  I knew I could do a better job than the agent I was working for, and the 30 minute commute on really bad winter roads were driving me to a slow death.

3.  No partner/family.  I did speak to my dad about concerns I had about the timing.  We were just coming off of a rough time nationally.  His response?  No other time like the present!  I found balance in vodka bottles.  Still do sometimes. 

4.  Hmmm... Yes and no?  I thought I'd be rolling in the dough by now.  It started to before the Great Recession, then beginning in 2009, revenues at some agencies nationwide reduced by up to 40%, mine included.  Sales have increased here nearly 25% in the past two years, however. 

5.  $3K.  Not required, but was in business checking.  I inherited, and still have, a lot of hand me down office furniture.

6.  Absolutely.  I love being my own boss.

[cktc]

Nov 13, 2014 16:00:58 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Nov 13, 2014 14:59:39 GMT -5 milee said:

Take out the word "woodworkers" and substitute any fun hobby and you've got the reason so many small businesses based on hobbies or things people like fail. 

Guys like ___are why most restaurants can't charge enough to make a go of it.  (People think they're a great cook and owning a restaurant will be fun.  So you're not just having to know how to actually run a business to succeed, you're competing with all the numbskulls that think they can keep their door open by charging just a little bit more than the food costs them.)

Guys like ___ are why bed and breakfasts are so tough to make profitable.  (People think it would be fun to have a B&B plus they'll get to live in a great house, so what could possibly go wrong?  That's who your competition is.)

And on and on and on.  It's one of the biggest issues you have to deal with if you want to try to compete in a field that people find fun, glamorous or at all appealing - you're competing with the people who are doing it because they like it and don't really know how to price it out. 

Photography is the biggest example I can think of.  Ever since digital cameras became available, professional photographers have taken a bath.  And ever since "lifestyle' photography became more popular, traditional photographers are just getting killed.  The funny thing is that they claim to have all this superior knowledge and skill, but the end result is what matters.  I don't care if you spent 10 years in a darkroom developing pictures!

A friend of a friend was always griping about how digital cameras were ruining her business and no one appreciated professional photography any more, so I thought it might be nice to gift my sister a session with her. I inquired about her price and she seemed really off put, assumed I was expecting a discount, and basically told me I couldn't afford her unless she drastically cut her margin and then it wouldn't be worth her time. She never told me a price, and has no idea what I make, or what I would have been willing to pay. As far as I'm concerned, score one for technology!

Another girl I went to school with appears to have a thriving new business as a photographer, she is fully booked for wedding season a year in advance and posts new photos to her company facebook almost weekly. Technology definitely isn't hindering her work. I think the difference is, she doesn't just charge like a professional, she acts like one.

[Firebird]

I inquired about her price and she seemed really off put, assumed I was expecting a discount, and basically told me I couldn't afford her unless she drastically cut her margin and then it wouldn't be worth her time.

*sigh*

I find myself saying this a lot lately, but manners and politeness go an awfully long way.  I wouldn't ever do business with someone who spoke to me that way.

Why in the world would you treat a referral so rudely?   

[cktc]

Nov 13, 2014 17:02:45 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I inquired about her price and she seemed really off put, assumed I was expecting a discount, and basically told me I couldn't afford her unless she drastically cut her margin and then it wouldn't be worth her time.

*sigh*

I find myself saying this a lot lately, but manners and politeness go an awfully long way.  I wouldn't ever do business with someone who spoke to me that way.

Why in the world would you treat a referral so rudely?   

Right? I'm getting all worked up and wishing her failure just on the memory of the encounter. I'd certainly never recommend her to anyone.

[Firebird]

Iggy aka IG, I love our insurance agent.  He drove to our house on a Saturday afternoon to drop off some papers to sign and played with my daughter for a few minutes   Very cool guy. 

Actually, when we were going over life insurance plans I thought in passing that it seemed like a nice career. Maybe I'll look into that once we move.

[tskeeter]

Nov 13, 2014 15:22:25 GMT -5 milee said:

Nov 13, 2014 15:12:05 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

There should be a law against going into a business in which you enjoy....    Come on.  The rest of us hate our jobs.  Small business owners should too. 

Yeah, it sucks but most of the really profitable businesses were in odd industries.

Yeah.  I've decided my post retirement career will be as a plumber who specializes in clogged toilets on weekends and holidays.  When people wil pay a prince's ransom just to get you to walk through their door.  Charge on a sliding scale based on the time of day, day of week, and significance of holiday.  Want me out on Sunday, or Christmas, or to come out and fix things before your New Years eve party, or at 2 in the morning, it's gonna cost ya.  A bundle.

[Iggy aka IG]

Nov 13, 2014 17:40:15 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Iggy aka IG, I love our insurance agent.  He drove to our house on a Saturday afternoon to drop off some papers to sign and played with my daughter for a few minutes   Very cool guy. 

Actually, when we were going over life insurance plans I thought in passing that it seemed like a nice career. Maybe I'll look into that once we move.

Right on!    It's all about the people.  The people and their kids, grand kiddos, and furry family members.    Well, it should be anyway.  From what I've heard, there are some lousy, and unaccountable agents out there.

Keep us posted if you start to seriously consider it.  As you've probably seen in other threads here, companies and their contracts vary a lot.  A LOT, lot.