vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Mar 3, 2011 8:36:51 GMT -5
I'm also not comparing organized military to suicide bombers - I'm comparing the ad campaign/cultural promotion of each. [/quote]
I don't see that there is much similarity at all
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 8:40:24 GMT -5
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 3, 2011 8:57:36 GMT -5
I remember buying candy cigarettes as a kid in the 1970's and pretending to smoke them.
Kids emulate what they see. While I find it the whole concept of suicide bombers sickening, I understand why kids in that culture would do it.
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Post by marjar on Mar 3, 2011 11:13:20 GMT -5
I certainly don't think everything America does is awesome but that doesn't make me believe there is a correlation between our solders and suicide bombers. The concept of blow back, I understand and agree that it is likely to occur but I find it disgusting to compare an organized military of any country to suicide bombers. And no, I never played war [except for the playing card came], cowboys & indians or anything that assimilated war. May have been because you are younger than some of us and this sort role playing was no longer considered in a child's best interest, when you were a growing up.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 3, 2011 11:39:55 GMT -5
OK, I have to get to work so I don't have time to read all the comments. I just have to say my Mom laughs now b/c she says she and her brother used to play War. Because she was the younger of the two he always made her be Hitler.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 3, 2011 11:55:39 GMT -5
So our soldiers are brainwashed in the same fashion as suicide bombers? In a way, yes. If you grow up in the US then you hear over & over again about how america is great & all these other people are terrorists & evil. We honor the members of the armed forces because they are out protecting us & fighting evil. Now think about if you grow up somewhere else & are raised by people who think america is evil. You hear over & over again that americans are evil & trying to destroy your way of life. The people who successfully rise up against them (like 9/11 hijackers) are celebrated as heroes, giving their life for the cause & helping to take down the enemy. If your are raised in a culture or a family that views suicide bombers as heroes, then odds are you will have the same view. That is the cultural brainwashing that Loopi was talking about. We learn our world views from those that raise us, our individual "truths" about the world are biased. I don't see playing suicide bomber any different than cowboys & indians or all the other warlike games kids play. Tons of video games are played with the good guys vs. the bad guys, but good & bad is all relative.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Mar 3, 2011 13:31:55 GMT -5
My daughter plays Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, but I only allowed it after a very thorough discussion about the fact that though character is presented as the good guy, the roles could easily be reversed. Life is not black and white. I'm not sure how anyone makes it to a adulthood without learning this...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 3, 2011 13:45:09 GMT -5
If anybody is confused about who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, might I suggest a vacation to sunny Tripoli or Tehran? But that's the whole point! When you're a kid who grows up in Tehran, a suicide bomber may just be a good guy to you and it's not shocking kids will play suicide bomber if that's what they see.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 3, 2011 13:50:16 GMT -5
It isn't shocking, it's totally expected as a symptom of the deranged, violent and bigoted society they have...
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Post by marjar on Mar 3, 2011 14:00:03 GMT -5
We view the "Founding Fathers" as heroes; King George might have thought otherwise.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Mar 3, 2011 14:05:55 GMT -5
who are today's "founding fathers" in iran? the ayatollahs?
the American founding fathers were a product of the "enlightenment" age of europe.
where do "enlightenment" thinking/ideals come into play in iran?
like ed says, a degenerate(and i'll add) backward, culture. no one should be surprised as to what it has perverted into. i feel sorry for the youth of the totalitarian world. and, I don't want our country/culture to lower itself to that level.
islamifacation is closer in belief to king george than the founding fathers were
name one "rights of man" sharia law promoting, muslim philosopher/intellectual from 1776 to the present.
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Post by marjar on Mar 3, 2011 14:16:17 GMT -5
who are today's "founding fathers" in iran? the ayatollahs? the American founding fathers were a product of the "enlightenment" age of europe. where do "enlightenment" thinking/ideals come into play in iran? like ed says, a degenerate(and i'll add) backward, culture. no one should be surprised as to what it has perverted into. i feel sorry for the youth of the totalitarian world. and, I don't want our country/culture to lower itself to that level. name one "rights of man" sharia law promoting, muslim philosopher/intellectual from 1776 to the present. Sigh. It's called perspective.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Mar 3, 2011 14:18:34 GMT -5
and there is none in that kind of statement sigh per·spec·tive /pərˈspɛktɪv/ Show Spelled[per-spek-tiv] Show IPA –noun 1. a technique of depicting volumes and spatial relationships on a flat surface. Compare aerial perspective, linear perspective. 2. a picture employing this technique, especially one in which it is prominent: an architect's perspective of a house. 3. a visible scene, especially one extending to a distance; vista: a perspective on the main axis of an estate. 4. the state of existing in space before the eye: The elevations look all right, but the building's composition is a failure in perspective. 5. the state of one's ideas, the facts known to one, etc., in having a meaningful interrelationship: You have to live here a few years to see local conditions in perspective. 6. the faculty of seeing all the relevant data in a meaningful relationship: Your data is admirably detailed but it lacks perspective. 7. a mental view or prospect: the dismal perspective of terminally ill patients. i guess you are going for #5 I'm going with #6
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 3, 2011 14:20:37 GMT -5
We view the "Founding Fathers" as heroes; King George might have thought otherwise. Actually, I think they were probably considered terrorists. They came up with the barbaric idea of placing snipers up in trees taking out the commander of the army, instead of standing on he battlefield to fight in formation like real gentlement did.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 3, 2011 14:21:50 GMT -5
What do you hope to gain by convincing anyone that the "perspective" of a sharia-embracing, repressive, backward and intolerant culture is as good as the perspective of a free society like ours? It isn't. Ours is better. Ours is right, theirs is wrong. Isn't that clear? Would you rather live under an oppressive sharia regime where you, as a woman, have fewer rights than a dog? I truly can't understand your mindset, and the mindset of others here who are working overtime to convince us that violent, degenerate practices have an equal place in this country as the ideals that founded our nation...
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Mar 3, 2011 14:22:24 GMT -5
founding fathers = al quada? due to tactics?
what about philosophies?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 3, 2011 14:23:35 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has said Sharia belongs here. I know I haven't. It's my opinion that the majority of Muslims in the US don't want it, are happy to be here, don't want everyone else to convert to Islam, nor are they a threat to our culture.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 3, 2011 14:29:35 GMT -5
Sigh is right. I guess some people can't see the world from someone else's view.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 3, 2011 14:33:34 GMT -5
No one here is working to convince you that violent, degenerate practices have a place in this country. If anything we are trying to convince you that most muslims don't have violent, degenerate practices. But, your bigotry doesn't allow you to see that muslims are just people too & most don't want to destroy our country or our culture.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 3, 2011 14:42:58 GMT -5
But quite a few do, and they have the support of entire foreign governments behind them...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 3, 2011 14:46:36 GMT -5
Yes, a few do, just like a few christians believe terrorism is necessary. What you seem to be unable to grasp is in both cases that few doesn't represent the views of the majority. The majority of muslims are not terrorist & do not support what they do.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Mar 3, 2011 14:47:34 GMT -5
Well then it's a good thing we've got patriots like you to stand up to them, ed. You should go hang out at your local mosque and protest their existence.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 3, 2011 14:49:58 GMT -5
I don't have a local mosque...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 3, 2011 14:51:00 GMT -5
I don't have a local mosque... then there's no need to get your panties in a knot.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Mar 3, 2011 14:52:22 GMT -5
Then you should go to the nearest one! Aren't you afraid for the lives of your fellow Americans?? GET ON IT, ED! THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING!! AHHHHH!!
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 3, 2011 16:38:32 GMT -5
With respect the anecdote about the Kuwaiti woman, and the reply to it about Kuwaiti wealth-- this is the clearest example on three threads of what I mean when I say the leftist template doesn't hold water with respect to radical islam. Specifically, the false belief on the far left that "poverty causes crime". The theory that the hopelessness and despair of poverty has driven some people to commit violent acts, caused them to be attracted to extremist ideology, or both-- is just plain wrong.
Radical islamists do what they do because they believe it is right. They are raised in a belief system that is very clear that their religion is advanced by the sword, and Allah doesn't save by grace. In fact, Allah is a pretty harsh god. The average muslim is not guaranteed paradise or heaven after death. It's giant "maybe". There is, however, ONE guarantee-- and that is to die as a martyr in jihad. To die for Allah in a holy war-- that's the highest and best use of a muslim's life. There may be other interpretations for this that the majority of muslims adhere to, but for the radical-- there's no other interpretation.
Mohammed Atta and the gang were pretty well educated. In fact, bin laden himself comes from a pretty wealthy Saudi family- he's basically a spoiled rich kid who took his religion and went all Menendez brothers with it on the whole planet.
It's not about poverty. It's not about hopelessness. It's about a way of life in too many parts of the world. It's about an ideology and a way of life that we in the west should seek to quite literally exterminate-- do away with, destroy, kill, dismantle, overthrow, etc. And before you say it cannot be done- I refer you to our good friends, the Japanese. It's a regular love fest with them. They first had to understand that if they were willing to die to the last man for their faith in their Emperor-God, then we were willing to take the last man. When that was made clear, they became quite reasonable. I think the time to clarify the situation with radical islamists was September 12, 2001 when several low-yield nuclear weapons should have struck the heart of Kabul, and other sites in Afghanistan, and Iran and all those countries that end in "stan" should have been put on notice that we're not f***ing around anymore. You kill us, or cooperate with those who do, we WILL wipe you out-- babies and all.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Mar 3, 2011 16:42:15 GMT -5
Thank you, Paul, for finally showing us your true colors Those of a sick and deranged extremist.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 3, 2011 16:55:03 GMT -5
Once again, Paul, well said! You know when the apologists call you a racist/bigot/extremist, you've won the debate...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 3, 2011 16:56:16 GMT -5
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Mar 3, 2011 17:02:19 GMT -5
Once again, Paul, well said! You know when the apologists call you a racist/bigot/extremist, you've won the debate... If you want to consider what Paul just said a win, you go right ahead.
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