formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Mar 2, 2011 22:17:13 GMT -5
www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/03/02/moore_on_wealthy_peoples_money_thats_not_theirs_thats_a_national_resource_its_ours.html- I don't know how to embed video unfortunately. Apparently, the money that you have [remember, wealthy is not defined in black and white and SS benefits are currently taxed if your income is over $40k MFJ - back door wealth tax] is really theirs to take and spread amongst those that are less fortunate or deemed by them as more worthy of the money that you've worked hard for and saved. The scary part is this is the same ideal as the current occupant of the White House. Dem or Repub, this kind of talk should concern you.
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 3, 2011 19:36:51 GMT -5
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Mar 3, 2011 19:40:41 GMT -5
This message has been deleted.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Mar 3, 2011 19:44:49 GMT -5
you don't work for a public sector union or belong to CAIR? cause i lump them in with crooked bankers ;D
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on Mar 3, 2011 19:57:30 GMT -5
Quote: "They're sitting on the money, they're using it for their own -- they're putting it someplace else with no interest in helping you with your life, with that money.
So what? They have no duty to do so just as Michael Moore has no duty to use his movie making skills to make conservatives look good.
We've allowed them to take that.
BEGIN WITH HIM! TAKE EVERY FREAKING DIME THAT HE HAS!!!
That's not theirs,
Of course it is; they earned it. Don't like it? Study what they did and make your own fortune. Look and read: fortunes are made every day by people who do not come from wealth.
that's a national resource, that's ours.
Are Moore's skills his own or a national resource? Can we force him to make propaganda movies for America?
We all have this -- we all benefit from this or we all suffer as a result of not having it," Michael Moore told Laura Flanders of GRITtv.
You can say that about anything: not enough sex? Force beautiful women into government brothels. Need strong men to work your yards? Bring back slavery. You can state that anything belongs to the rest and take it... or you can go out and EARN it!
"I think we need to go back to taxing these people at the proper rates. They need to -- we need to see these jobs as something we some, that we collectively own as Americans and you can't just steal our jobs and take them someplace else," Moore concluded.
It's a good thing that he can make movies since he's an idiot. The top rate is 35% I think and going to go up under Obama to not only 39.6% but additional taxes for Obamacare. If he wants to whine about loops holes, then CLOSE them rather than raises taxes since the latter hits non rich professionals.
How does taxing people lead to jobs anyway? It does not. Someone must create that wealth first and it is from them, these people who produce goods and jobs that this money is stolen to feed a bloated government that makes nothing but misery. Maybe if the government wasn't 40% of GDP (local, state, federal) and borrowing money such that private individuals and companies are crowded out, we would see jobs! Certainly robbing Peter to give Paul a non sustainable government job will not help anyone!
I think we should all break into Moore's house and set up shop; isn't HIS wealth our wealth?
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 3, 2011 20:12:31 GMT -5
I read somethng once that made me stop and think. It may be full of holes for some, but for others maybe it is worth repeating.
If you want to know what you'll be doing 20 or 30 or 40 years from now find someone you want to be like and do what they did for the past 20 or 30 or 40 years and you can be like them, too.
On the other hand, if you want to know what you'll be doing 20 or 30 or 40 years from now, find someone who has been doing what you have been doing for the past 20 or 30 or 40 years and it ought to tell you what the next 20 or 30 or 40 years holds for you.
I really don't think Michael Moore has many people following in his footsteps, , , for who wants to be another Michael Moore?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Mar 3, 2011 21:01:27 GMT -5
I have been saying this for years...these "progressive" liberals have repeatedly shown in their words that they believe everyone's earnings should be community property and whatever the "community" decides it doesn't need will be handed back to the earner. It's really sickening how they believe this...and it's not just rich people, either. If you think these progressive liberals will stop at just the "rich" then many will get a big surprise...and just remember, it wasn't that long ago that Obama felt the "rich" included anyone making $75k or more - I doubt he's really changed that viewpoint either
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 21:05:02 GMT -5
I don't know anyone who says/believes that.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Mar 3, 2011 21:12:04 GMT -5
but I am so unfortunate that I am the only Irishwoman or man who has never gotten any of the good Taminent Graft. none of my irish relatives did either.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 3, 2011 21:18:48 GMT -5
Let's see: The top 2% has doubled their wealth in the last 30 years, the top 0.1% has quadrupled, and the bottom 98% is doing the class warfare? Someone is brainwashed....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 21:34:15 GMT -5
Apparently, the money that you have [remember, wealthy is not defined in black and white and SS benefits are currently taxed if your income is over $40k MFJ - back door wealth tax] is really theirs to take and spread amongst those that are less fortunate or deemed by them as more worthy of the money that you've worked hard for and saved.
The scary part is this is the same ideal as the current occupant of the White House. Dem or Repub, this kind of talk should concern you.
That's the way I see it too!!!!!!!!
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 3, 2011 21:50:45 GMT -5
Top tax rates- Reaganists:Greed is GOOD. · 2003-2008: 35% · 2002: 38.6% · 2001: 39.1% · 1993-2000: 39.6% · 1991-1992: 31% · 1988-1990: 33% · 1987: 38.5% · 1982-1986: 50% · 1971-1981: 70% · 1970: 71.75% · 1969: 77% · 1968: 75.25% · 1965-1967: 70% · 1964: 77% · 1954-1963: 91% · 1952-1953: 92% · 1951: 91% · 1950: 84.36% · 1948-1949: 82.13% · 1946-1947: 86.45% · 1944-1945: 94% · 1942-1943: 88% · 1941: 81% · 1940: 81.1% · 1936-1939: 79% · 1932-1935: 63% · 1930-1931: 25% · 1929: 24% · 1925-1928: 25% · 1924: 46% · 1922-1923: 56% · 1918-1921: 73% · 1917: 67% · 1916: 15% · 1913-1915: 7%
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Mar 3, 2011 21:54:32 GMT -5
Top tax rates- Reaganists:Greed is GOOD. · 2003-2008: 35% · 2002: 38.6% · 2001: 39.1% · 1993-2000: 39.6% · 1991-1992: 31% · 1988-1990: 33% · 1987: 38.5% · 1982-1986: 50% · 1971-1981: 70% · 1970: 71.75% · 1969: 77% · 1968: 75.25% · 1965-1967: 70% · 1964: 77% · 1954-1963: 91% · 1952-1953: 92% · 1951: 91% · 1950: 84.36% · 1948-1949: 82.13% · 1946-1947: 86.45% · 1944-1945: 94% · 1942-1943: 88% · 1941: 81% · 1940: 81.1% · 1936-1939: 79% · 1932-1935: 63% · 1930-1931: 25% · 1929: 24% · 1925-1928: 25% · 1924: 46% · 1922-1923: 56% · 1918-1921: 73% · 1917: 67% · 1916: 15% · 1913-1915: 7% wonderful chart - what is your point? If I had a choice I'd pick 1913
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on Mar 3, 2011 22:49:39 GMT -5
Let's see: The top 2% has doubled their wealth in the last 30 years, the top 0.1% has quadrupled, and the bottom 98% is doing the class warfare? Someone is brainwashed.... And we are looking at him or her. The rich keep performing actions that make them wealthy while the poor keep peforming actions that keep them poor. It's like whining that top athletes are so much fitter than the average Joe because he or she goes to the gym, eats right, etc... while everyone else is on the couch watching TV and stuffing ring dings down their throat! Most rich people are such because they create that wealth! There aren't that many Paris Hiltons (or Ted Kenedies, Kerry-Heinzes, etc...) out there to account for all that wealth. If you want to be rich, try to do something besides whine and complain!
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on Mar 3, 2011 22:51:57 GMT -5
Top tax rates- Reaganists:Greed is GOOD. · 2003-2008: 35% · 2002: 38.6% · 2001: 39.1% · 1993-2000: 39.6% · 1991-1992: 31% · 1988-1990: 33% · 1987: 38.5% · 1982-1986: 50% · 1971-1981: 70% · 1970: 71.75% · 1969: 77% · 1968: 75.25% · 1965-1967: 70% · 1964: 77% · 1954-1963: 91% · 1952-1953: 92% · 1951: 91% · 1950: 84.36% · 1948-1949: 82.13% · 1946-1947: 86.45% · 1944-1945: 94% · 1942-1943: 88% · 1941: 81% · 1940: 81.1% · 1936-1939: 79% · 1932-1935: 63% · 1930-1931: 25% · 1929: 24% · 1925-1928: 25% · 1924: 46% · 1922-1923: 56% · 1918-1921: 73% · 1917: 67% · 1916: 15% · 1913-1915: 7% So it's greedy to want to keep the money that you create and earn but NOT greedy to use the government to steal, by threat of force, money from people to line your own pocket? This is why I can't stand liberals.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Mar 3, 2011 23:02:09 GMT -5
Let's see: The top 2% has doubled their wealth in the last 30 years, the top 0.1% has quadrupled, and the bottom 98% is doing the class warfare? Someone is brainwashed.... Compound interest can be a good thing in helping money grow. It makes sense that the wealthy continue to get more wealthy.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Mar 3, 2011 23:04:13 GMT -5
boy they really hit em hard during WWII, that was probably the last time the nation "gave it's all" for a common cause.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 3, 2011 23:11:59 GMT -5
...but it's MINE, MINE, MINE!
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 4, 2011 0:17:32 GMT -5
· 2003-2008: 35% · 2002: 38.6% · 2001: 39.1% · 1993-2000: 39.6% · 1991-1992: 31% · 1988-1990: 33% · 1987: 38.5% · 1982-1986: 50% · 1971-1981: 70% · 1970: 71.75% · 1969: 77% · 1968: 75.25% · 1965-1967: 70% · 1964: 77% · 1954-1963: 91% · 1952-1953: 92% · 1951: 91% · 1950: 84.36% · 1948-1949: 82.13% · 1946-1947: 86.45% · 1944-1945: 94% · 1942-1943: 88% · 1941: 81% · 1940: 81.1% · 1936-1939: 79% · 1932-1935: 63% · 1930-1931: 25% · 1929: 24% · 1925-1928: 25% · 1924: 46% · 1922-1923: 56% · 1918-1921: 73% · 1917: 67% · 1916: 15% · 1913-1915: 7%
If anybody wants to use that chart to show the top earners are not taxed hard enough, the rest of us can just laugh at the childishness ingrained in such an embarrassment to the poster. In 1913 the only people who were taxed at all were the rich. Exemptions and deductions kept everybody else off the tax rolls.
Today almost half of all Americans still don't pay any income tax, and for the same reasons. Besides thaat, a humongous percentage of the nomn-payers get a reverse income tax in the earned incpme tax credit. A much as $5,666. How's that for demonstrating the generosity of the American taxpayer's contribution to the needy?
Up until Reagan there were write-offs for everything from a home phone for being on call, (whether anybody was ever called or not), to parking fees in the company parking lot. Today they just raise the standard deduction so high that only the wealthiest can ever exceed it. And the Alternative minimum tax makes it a certainty that the rich pay tax, with the bottom AMT startng at 28 percent.
And if anybody wants to get rid of the IRS and go for a flat tax or a national sales tax, they better think again. The ONLY people who would benefit from sucha move would be the rich. They would all just llloooovvvvveeeee to move down into a 20 or 25 percent taax bracket with everybody else. But who here can homnestly look at their tax return ans say 25 percent of their income goes to taxes? Or 20 percent? How about 8, , ,maybe 11 percent?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 4, 2011 0:29:50 GMT -5
<<< And if anybody wants to get rid of the IRS and go for a flat tax or a national sales tax, they better think again. The ONLY people who would benefit from sucha move would be the rich. >>> ...this is interesting... while I'm not a flat tax fanatic, I do think that having everybody pay a minimum 5% flat income tax would be a benefit via 1) increased revenues for the govt. coffers and 2) increased "skin in the game" of the governed... ...maybe the math doesn't add up for #1... and #2 couldn't be quantified... but it is an interesting prospect to have a flat income tax, if we can't get it tossed out as unconstitutional...
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 4, 2011 0:41:19 GMT -5
Yeak. 5% tax sounds gr8. But on what? On social security, too? On when you sll your house at a profit? Right now the first $250,000 profit for each seller, ($500,000 for a married couple), is not taxed. How about the part of medocal bills that your insurance pays? Does that get taxed? And I'm not trying to be difficult. These are the real hurdles that will have to be ironed out before going to anything like "everybody pays at least a little". Our tax code is not simple, that's a fact. But the least fair, most unfair, thing that can be done would be to make it so simple a caveman could do it.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 4, 2011 1:10:41 GMT -5
People are so dumb now it's not worth talking to them. Let's just say people used to have class and thanked their lucky stars at their good fortune. Every time the pubs get the tax for the rich down- they start a great depression...pffft!
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Mar 4, 2011 3:34:19 GMT -5
People are so dumb now it's not worth talking to them. Let's just say people used to have class and thanked their lucky stars at their good fortune. Every time the pubs get the tax for the rich down- they start a great depression...pffft! I agree some people are so dumb now it's not worth talking to them. People used to have more faith in their own ability to be successful and not so many feel that it is owed to them. Every time Dems talk about how the rich don't pay their fair share, all I can really think is at least they pay federal income taxes.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 4, 2011 6:47:39 GMT -5
And we are looking at him or her. The rich keep performing actions that make them wealthy while the poor keep peforming actions that keep them poor.
It's like whining that top athletes are so much fitter than the average Joe because he or she goes to the gym, eats right, etc... while everyone else is on the couch watching TV and stuffing ring dings down their throat!
Most rich people are such because they create that wealth! There aren't that many Paris Hiltons (or Ted Kenedies, Kerry-Heinzes, etc...) out there to account for all that wealth. If you want to be rich, try to do something besides whine and complain! Well said ameiko. I think that one needed repeating for the liberals that skipped it the first time. Liberal logic at it's best.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 4, 2011 7:00:59 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 9:04:06 GMT -5
"Most rich people are such because they create that wealth!"
Independently in a vaccuum?
They never relied upon one single program in childhood... they never had one free school meal (WIC, health care, etc...), they never received a free and appropriate education? Never went to the library with their mother for story hour or to check out books? Never saw a cultural even which was subsidized by the government? He traveled on roads all of his own making and lived in a city so that universal access never provided him with phone and internet? He didn't have a safe chilchood, free of almost all deadly communicable diseases, and protected from lead in his toys and bacteris from his food? And police and firefighters to deal with daily dangers, and a military to deal with the rest? He never got a grant or a school loan to help him get through a college (was it a state school...) ? Never too advantage of Americorp to serve and explore his country, and help pay for schooling? Never took advantage of the Small Business Association grant or loan? Never used the pattent office? The post office? Never flew on a plane or took a train? Ever used Coast Guard to keep their shores safe and their shipping lines open? Ever used an American embassy to protect your rights overseas? Ever sue anyone in the American court system?
And a thousand more things.... no one in America makes their wealth in a vacuum... they do it because our SYSTEM supports them... and they in tern, need to support the system...
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Mar 4, 2011 9:22:01 GMT -5
I think I reached my turning point this year when my sister and her husband, who only worked minimally during 2010, received a $11K tax refund. I'm done with our current system. I extremely dislike paying taxes just to have them hand it out on the other end with no restrictions. I am all for a system that taxes everyone at exactly the same rate. If you make $1M, and the rate is 30% then you pay $300K. And if you only make $20K, then you pay $6K. No discounts, no credits. I don't see how it is fair to say that the wealthy should pay a higher percentage just because they have so much money. One day i'm going to need a swimming pool for my gold coins, and there won't be enough to play with if I'm forced to give it to the poor.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 4, 2011 10:51:44 GMT -5
Wealth is not made in a vacuum. That's so very, very true. And wealthy people, at one time or another back in history were not wealthy. Somebody had to get it started. Maybe they passed some of it on to their heirs. And maybe the majority of thiose heirs plithered it away, while others built on it. But the secret is always the same, , , somebody set it all in motionm. How they did it was once addressed by Jay VanAndel, co-founder of Amway Corporation. He told about an acquaintance who asked him how he could afford things like Cadillac cars and high end camper boats and such. He offered the guy an opportunity to spend a week with him and learn how. The guy said he would try to fit some time in but he couldn't do it during his favorite wrestling matches of hanging out time with the boys at the pool hall.
Ross Perot said it better. . . ."Look arounfd for somethiing people need and provide it to them."
The guy that invented the weed eater tried 625 times before he got a backer.
Yeah, , , , that 24 hour day is only available to the rich. And it's awful, maybe even criminal, how they hog it.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 4, 2011 11:14:03 GMT -5
"Most rich people are such because they create that wealth!" Independently in a vaccuum? Of course not. They created wealth using the exact same system is available for every single citizen of this great country. The point was, most rich people are such because they create that wealth. Your rant does not invalidate that point since "the system" is not exclusively for the wealthy. When are the welfare rats going to start supporting the system that supports them? They could at least send thank you cards.....
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 4, 2011 12:55:32 GMT -5
It isn't luck, but I wouldn't expect lazy, handout-seeking welfare junkies to understand the difference...
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