The Wacky World Of NWO Market Conspiracy

[Virgil Showlion]

Virg, you still need a haircut!

I do.

I know the artist for the current Av. If I ever simultaneously find the time and wherewithal, I'll commission her to draw the perfect "Virgil" av.

[comokate]

Mar 3, 2011 23:28:55 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Virg, you still need a haircut!

I do.

I know the artist for the current Av. If I ever simultaneously find the time and wherewithal, I'll commission her to draw the perfect "Virgil" av.

Now that would be fun!

[domeasingold]

With George Clooney as model? Or Johnny Depp? Or Colonel Sherman T. Potter?

[tyfighter3]

Virg, it sounds like someone wants to get unvexed.

[Virgil Showlion]

I think Mrs. Virgil (my DW) would prefer my online persona to look something more like Tesla's hyponotoad. So as not to have the EE ladies all upons.

Now, enough talk of conspiracies, avatars, finance and such, and back to the important mainstream news of the day:

[kman]

Charlie Sheen wants to be Kman for a day....the guy is a serious underachiever.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The US-sponsored "family planning clinics" (where in true Orwellian style, you plan not to have a family) are presently quite effective at making sure there are fewer AIDS infectees for the world to "deal with".

You see it, your just a little bitter on your timing on getting in the market.. You want to know what makes The West, and in particular the USA and Canada different than any other super power in history? We donate 300-400 Billion a year in aid. We are trying to cure AIDS and other diseases around the world for everyone. We are trying to stop hunger for everyone. There has never been anything like it in the history of this world. The interesting part; the philosophies I'm talking about were the idea's of a man that lived a long time ago.. I'll give you a hint.. It isn't the anti-Christ.

[Virgil Showlion]

I have no problem with giving aid to third-world countries. I wish less of the funding went to glorified abortion clinics the establishment has the audacity to call "family planning centers".

Birth rates drop precipitously if the standard of living increases only a little. But heaven forbid that aid to foreign nations target such endeavours as "raising the standard of living".

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

That's what business is for my friend!

The poor need money because they have no means to get it for themselves. Everyone else just needs a job.

[frankq]

Mar 3, 2011 20:36:57 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

That's the difference between you guys and us. We have optimism, because of our life experience and positive mindset. We've seen what is possible.

Uh huh.

You asked me to justify my concerns over the African revolutions and I did. Am I saying it's completely impossible for democratic, pro-western attitudes (rather than Islamic fundamentalism) to prevail in the nascent republics? No.

Unlikely, but not impossible. There is no immutable law that makes me right and you wrong.

Dare I point out, though, that my viewpoint leaves me ample room to be pleasantly surprised, while yours leaves you ample room to be sorely disappointed.

True enough. But I see more upside potential from what presently exists. The world is a different place now, and repressive governments have previously enjoyed an ability to control information and communication that is no longer possible in the modern age. Change is afoot, and it isn't more repression. It just doesn't pay.

[vl]

I have no problem with giving aid to third-world countries. I wish less of the funding went to glorified abortion clinics the establishment has the audacity to call "family planning centers".

Birth rates drop precipitously if the standard of living increases only a little. But heaven forbid that aid to foreign nations target such endeavors as "raising the standard of living".

Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=4219&page=4#ixzz1FdE1ZhLG

The "charity" we should be extending is to let those who come here for education to return to their birth nation smarter, wiser and armed with healthy knowledge to lift it. Giving just for the sake of it is random generosity that seldom hits the intended target. That applies to monies sent home from the one who came here. We're funding the problem not remedying it.
There is an excellent You-Tube on World Population that would astound you. It should also make lots of sense that higher income accommodates the needs of many more than lower income does, so the idea carries that- the more you make the more you give or lose it to taxes that give it for you. There isn't a value in excessive accumulated wealth.

Kate-- you're a beauty! My avatar reminds me of the inland Michigan lake where I spent my summers. Frankq's self-portrait is spot-on as well.

[verrip1]

True enough. But I see more upside potential from what presently exists. The world is a different place now, and repressive governments have previously enjoyed an ability to control information and communication that is no longer possible in the modern age. Change is afoot, and it isn't more repression. It just doesn't pay.

Frank, the monolithic view of the ME and N Africa is that there are two types of people. Those who support secular tyrants and those who support fundamentalists. I'm sure it's quite comforting to distill people into two dysfunctional factions, but it is myopic. There is a growing populism throughout the world. Hitting less in some areas, and more in others.

Turkey's culture is evolving and the younger generations are seeing the value in staying Turks, but including Western culture and values as well. Iranians include significant numbers of businessmen, youth, women and intellectuals who look at their government with disdain, but choose not to rock the boat; instead their attitude is live and let live - let the government say whatever crazy stuff they want to as long as they are not overly repressive towards most of the citizenry.

In the North African populist revolts, the media creates worry that it is all controlled by Muslim fundamentalists. They ignore the large body of other populists who are, in many senses, leading the revolts. Consider the push in Egypt to select as interim leader a Google manager who had difficulty in getting government approval to leave during the height of the demonstrations. The people trusted this businessman, not fundamentalists. Of course, the fundamentalists themselves support only other fundamentalists, but what would one expect?

It's populism. Hey, it even happened here with the sudden growth of the Tea Party. In Egypt it was largely student-strengthened populism. Populism is growing these days. As it does, people everywhere will be asking why they don't have the liberty they deserve. If they don't get the right answers, they will change things.

In some spots like Libya, the transition is violent. But the change is inexorable. It WILL happen. The easy way or the hard way, but it will happen. The world will be a better place for it.

[Virgil Showlion]

That's what I love about message boards. These "student-strengthened populism" narratives will still be around six months from now when some hard-line Islamic theocracy seizes the reins of power.

Keep smoking that blunt, sir.

[verrip1]

I see. People with differing opinions must be mentally impaired via drug use.

Well played, Virgil.

[frankq]

Mar 4, 2011 16:43:41 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

That's what I love about message boards. These "student-strengthened populism" narratives will still be around six months from now when some hard-line Islamic theocracy seizes the reins of power.

Keep smoking that blunt, sir.

Smoke 'em if you've got 'em Virg, I'm just saying that the old guard is going the way of the Dodo bird. Newer blood is taking over, and the bottom line is that, for the most part, less repressive governments. maybe not "USA" templates, but not widespread Islamic fundamentalism.

[verrip1]

With the myopic view of the MSM, it's not surprising that so many people are convinced that Muslims dominate thought in that section of the world. In the 1950s, people learned to fear 'Reds under the beds'. Now, people have exaggerated fears of Muslims. Really, just because some of those guys are totally effed up and need a major ass whupping doesn't mean we have to live in fear of a whole religion and culture.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Great point V. K4U!

I like how everyone is focusing on the people in power, when it's the people who started this. Just another way to pick and choose what you want to, and come to some interesting conclusions.

Crisis in Libya set up to serve West's interests:
www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Crisis+Libya+serve+West+interests/4381976/story.html

I guess I shouldn't say nobody is looking at the people.

Africa optimism rising:
blogs.reuters.com/africanews/2010/07/07/africa-optimism-rising/

[comokate]

Mar 4, 2011 21:04:27 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Great point V. K4U!

I like how everyone is focusing on the people in power, when it's the people who started this. Just another way to pick and choose what you want to, and come to some interesting conclusions.

Crisis in Libya set up to serve West's interests:
www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Crisis+Libya+serve+West+interests/4381976/story.html

I guess I shouldn't say nobody is looking at the people.

Africa optimism rising:
blogs.reuters.com/africanews/2010/07/07/africa-optimism-rising/

That would make for an incredibly interesting study;
"what is the correlation between petroleum products and the brain chemistry of indigenous peoples, who sit atop large oil reserves, that apparently fuels their desire to topple governments in favor of ones that are pro-west?"

[Virgil Showlion]

...it's not surprising that so many people are convinced that Muslims dominate thought in that section of the world.

Yeah. I mean Muslims barely constitute more than 97% of Libya's population. It's not like Islamic philosophy is dominant or anything.

I see. People with differing opinions must be mentally impaired via drug use.

That's one theory.

You're the one whose av is toking up.

[neohguy]

Mar 5, 2011 16:01:07 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

...it's not surprising that so many people are convinced that Muslims dominate thought in that section of the world.

Yeah. I mean Muslims barely constitute more than 97% of Libya's population. It's not like Islamic philosophy is dominant or anything.

I see. People with differing opinions must be mentally impaired via drug use.

That's one theory.

You're the one whose av is toking up.

The people in the middle east aren't very happy with a country that supports a regime that distributes the wealth to himself and a few cronies. They don't particularly care to see foreign corporations paying wages to non natives either when their unemployment and poverty is so high.
According to this article, China may be making a similar mistake in sub-Sahara Africa. The Brazilians are trying a different approach by hiring local labor, and not shooting strikers. The costs are higher initially but the long term gains may be worth it.:
www.hellenicshippingnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11369:special-report-in-africa-can-brazil-be-the-anti-china&catid=33:world-economy-news&Itemid=97

[Virgil Showlion]

As with any revolution, there are some idealists, some anarchists, some liberty-seekers, some power-seekers, some patriots, some malcontents, and a phenomenal number of people who will accept any outcome so long as things get "back to normal".

I believe there are systemic reasons that these revolutions are happening now and not two years ago. Food prices are higher; jobs are scarcer; anti-Western proponents are more vocal; education and public health rates have stagnated. This isn't a sudden case of "student-strengthened populists" all of a sudden declaring a beer hall putsch after 30 years of repression. It is the fallout of the Great Recession--a broad public perception that current leadership is responsible for an unacceptable decline in the standard of living. When new (possibly democratic) leadership is installed and these systemic problems persist (this may be the biggest difference between Frank Q and myself--he believes things are getting better while I do not), the disenchanted Libyan, Egyptian, Tunisian people are going to look to the more radical elements for leadership. At that point we'll see these revolutions for what they actually are.

Call my theory pessimistic, but I'll take it any day over "the whole of Africa suddenly decided to have a populism party--simultaneously--because they discovered the Internet after 17 years".

[frankq]

"Frankq's self-portrait is spot-on as well."

Those bolts in the side of my neck are 24 carat gold buddy. Can you say the same of your nose ring?

[frankq]

Virgil,

I don't disagree that the current economic climate pushed people into action. If that's what it takes to open a can of whoop-ass on these regimes then at least we can hope that something good can come from this mess. Every individual, every society, has it's limit. It appears in the Mid East, that limit has been reached in some places.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The current conditions are a huge issue. We weren't supposed to get better (Even a little bit Virgil. I'm talking nothing so far that has happened, was supposed to happen.) We were supposed to completely fall apart. How mad do you think that mad some of the kids?

Call my theory pessimistic, but I'll take it any day over "the whole of Africa suddenly decided to have a populism party--simultaneously--because they discovered the Internet after 17 years".

Really? Who's saying anything is all of a sudden? They have been rioting in Iran for years. Same thing in China. NKorea started their people in the 90's. The list goes on. The media here is just so focused on the how bad we are. They ignore the censorship in these countries. Why is it so hard to believe that over the last 5 or six years the people have been using the Internet to rally together for a better life? Or are you just trying to district through humor??

K4Q!

[neohguy]

Will someone please explain to me how you get a cell phone and have internet access when you only make $2.00/day? How come their cell phones work in the desert but mine won't work in Tuscarawas county?

[vl]

Cheap land, buy-able government too dimwitted to realize those towers are frying brains AND most importantly... because THOSE PEOPLE actually LIKE SPAM. Makes them think they're tuned-in to America. Why do you think our Middle Class is so over-targeted for obliteration? We won't buy that Florida swamp land time share but they will and using affordable financing (switch image over to dancing half-naked trailer chick with baby slung over arm and a laptop in the other). Why do you think we are shifting to Central banks and a global currency? Because PAPER BUSINESS now rules the world and is wholly hypnotized that a New World Order cures everything (as long as they're on top and don't follow the same set of rules).

[Virgil Showlion]

They have been rioting in Iran for years. Same thing in China. NKorea started their people in the 90's. The list goes on. The media here is just so focused on the how bad we are. They ignore the censorship in these countries. Why is it so hard to believe that over the last 5 or six years the people have been using the Internet to rally together for a better life?

It's not 'hard' to believe; I don't discount the possibility that the Internet has strengthened certain populist movements. But I don't think for a minute that it's the driving factor behind the post-2009 wave of revolutionary attitudes. To me, that reasoning is like blaming WWI on the advent of mass production. Yes, mass production played a huge part in defining WWI, but no reasonable argument can be made that it was responsible for the war. The same reasoning applies here, and I've presented what I see as the driving (systemic) causes. The remarkable synchronicity of these events isn't coincidence.

As for the countries you mention, none have had a revolution recently.

North Korea has always been a disaster. The whole system could fall apart depending on how long Jong Il makes it before he strokes out again.

China has some huge boondoggles in their property markets. Whole vacant cities. Other urban centers where population density is higher than Japan's. It's no secret that they've been unloading their USD-denominated assets. Now they're trying to fight inflation, keep their exports up, prevent their economy from overheating, keep more than twice the population of the US gainfully employed--all in the same breath. If there's political discontent over there, there are certainly good reasons for it besides a newfound love of liberty.

Iran is politically stable. Yes, there are riots and protests. There are riots and protests in America. In front of the White House, even. I'd still consider America a politically stable republic (although I know a few would disagree with me).

[frankq]

"It's not 'hard' to believe; I don't discount the possibility that the Internet has strengthened certain populist movements. But I don't think for a minute that it's the driving factor behind the post-2009 wave of revolutionary attitudes."

Then we are in agreement. Access to and use of modern communications, networking, whatever you want to call it, is just a tool that facilitates and strengthens such movements. Social evolutionary forces do the rest.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Then we are in agreement. Access to and use of modern communications, networking, whatever you want to call it, is just a tool that facilitates and strengthens such movements. Social evolutionary forces do the rest

Exactly.

Virgil they tried to assassinate Amidajaba last summer. I really feel sorry for you if you think that Iran is politically stable. To go as far as comparing it to the USA is out there to say the least. They have killed at least 30 people, and arrested at least 300 in the last two rallies alone.

There are approximately 100,000 protests a year in China. I guess you didn't here they increased their US Treasury holdings by 30% last year. You right about the issues they have, however, just search China 1989. New found love for liberty? Not even close.

[verrip1]

Mar 6, 2011 17:56:34 GMT -5 frankq said:

"It's not 'hard' to believe; I don't discount the possibility that the Internet has strengthened certain populist movements. But I don't think for a minute that it's the driving factor behind the post-2009 wave of revolutionary attitudes."

Then we are in agreement. Access to and use of modern communications, networking, whatever you want to call it, is just a tool that facilitates and strengthens such movements. Social evolutionary forces do the rest.

Absolutely. It is not technology availability in and of itself; instead it is the COMMUNICATION and INFORMATION that the technology permits that gives enlightenment to the community, even when the information has been partially filtered and enhanced.