Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 14:20:44 GMT -5
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 7, 2011 14:23:18 GMT -5
Source huh? You really haven't heard this before? What metric do you want to use to define bad and good? Drop out rates? During the 12 months ending in October 2001, high school students living in low-income families dropped out of school at six times the rate of their peers from high-income families (see table 16-1). About 11 percent of students from low-income families (the lowest 20 percent) dropped out of high school; by comparison, 5 percent of middle-income students and 2 percent of students from high-income families did so. nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2004/section3/indicator16.aspHow about SAT scores? economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/sat-scores-and-family-income/If you have some other metric in mind, just let me know and I'll source those.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 14:31:11 GMT -5
There is a LOT of evidence on individual family income, ie. low income leads to increased absenteeism, and increased income leads to higher achivement... extrapolating that out... districts with lower average family income would have more of those issue... less of those successes.. agregate...
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 7, 2011 14:41:30 GMT -5
If the students can do well at one school then they have the capability. So it isn't the student's that are the problem it is the school's. Yet for some reason the only people anyone is willing to blame is the kids.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 7, 2011 14:48:06 GMT -5
If the students can do well at one school then they have the capability. So it isn't the student's that are the problem it is the school's. Yet for some reason the only people anyone is willing to blame is the kids. Having the ability and motivation are two different things. I barely passed high school...not because I was stupid but because I was too busy partying, skipping school, etc. My mother didn't give a shit as she was too busy partying and trying to recapture her youth. Once I was college age I realized I needed to shape up or I would end up like my mother. I worked full-time, took a full course load and still wound-up graduating with a 3.87. I had the ability in high school I just didn't care. Nothing the teachers could have done would have made me care.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 7, 2011 14:49:57 GMT -5
I don't blame the kids. I blame the parents mostly, and to a lesser extent the community. Saying that lower income kids on average under perform their higher income counterparts isn't placing blame. I'm just stating a fact.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 7, 2011 14:51:51 GMT -5
You'll also notice that study only looked at the improvement of the low income kids. Where's the data on the higher income kids they were in class with? Did their scores go up, down, stay the same?
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 7, 2011 14:54:36 GMT -5
I don't blame the kids. I blame the parents mostly, and to a lesser extent the community. Saying that lower income kids on average under perform their higher income counterparts isn't placing blame. I'm just stating a fact. That's what I am trying to say, badly obviously , they don't underpreform their higher income classmates. They only under preform that when they are grouped together at underpreforming schools. They have done this hundreds of times and for some reaoson no one will believe it. If you take failing low income students out of the failing school that houses mostly other failing low income students they will do about as well as their new classmates. Same kids, same parents just a different scene. So why the heck do we leave them there to continue to fail?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 14:56:59 GMT -5
Saying that lower income kids on average under perform their higher income counterparts isn't placing blame.
Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=finance&action=display&thread=4202&page=2#ixzz1FwftfyPS
Yup. They often have handicaps that higher income kids don't. I remember reading about a local school with a high proportion of kids on free lunches where they brought in a dental charity. Something like 70% of the children had cavities and were experiencing pain. Makes it hard to concentrate. Sometimes these kids don't have anyone to help them with their homework - their parents are working long hours or are undeducated themselves. I know that I had no help with homework past 5th grade. School districts with high proportions of poor students have started giving out free breakfasts as well - they found out that the only meal some of these kids were getting were their free lunches. One of the districts in my state sends backpacks home with food for their students siblings over the weekends.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Mar 7, 2011 15:33:34 GMT -5
Dark and I discussed this the other day.. chances are the parents who go through a choice program are parents who give a crap, which gives their kids an automatic leg up regardless of their poverty level. I'd venture to guess that they'd do almost as well in a neighborhood "underperforming" school as long as their parents continue giving a crap. However, how well they do then also depends on how well the school deals with discipline and what the class sizes are. But generally when a school is called "underperforming" all it's referring to is test scores, not the actual ability of the teachers to teach.
I think an interesting idea so that teachers can actually help kids on more of a one on one basis is to have the teachers follow their students through the grades, at least in elementary school.
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