Too good to promote?

[Phoenix84]

I don't have a specific life example or story to tell, but I am curious.

Have you ever encountered a situation at work or anywhere else where you or someone you know is very good at their job, so good in fact that management doesn't want to promote them when positions become available?

I could see how a manager would not want to promote a good employee, reasoning that "they're where they're supposed to be" and contributing in a very meaningful way to the organization. After all, why rock the boat?

Anyway, have you ever seen this situation?

[zibazinski]

Absolutely. I've been and I've seen other employees sabotaged by their supervisors so they have to stay at their job.

[billisonboard]

Not that one but remember when I was in the military knew a guy who was a good technician, a happy technician but would have made a terrible supervisor, an unhappy supervisor who was forced out of the service because he was not being promoted to the supervisor level.

[Phoenix84]

Oct 10, 2014 14:42:52 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Not that one but remember when I was in the military knew a guy who was a good technician, a happy technician but would have made a terrible supervisor, an unhappy supervisor who was forced out of the service because he was not being promoted to the supervisor level.

From what I've seen of the military, it's very much an "up or out" organization.

[vonna]

I'm aware of it from the employee's perspective. My sis is in a pretty high level job in   Leadership wants to promote her, but that would take her from what she loves doing, and put her more in a management role. She said "no thanks"

She is tired of being told she is holding herself back, because she is quite good and quite happy with what she does.  Sometimes a promotion really changes the job responsibilities, and everyone is not cut out for management.

[Phoenix84]

Oct 10, 2014 14:39:46 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Absolutely. I've been and I've seen other employees sabotaged by their supervisors so they have to stay at their job.

Why didn't you ever go into school administration Zib? You sound like you weren't that happy teaching.

[zibazinski]

I'd have to get another masters which I could have done but being an admin wasnt my thing. I'm not a brown noser or an ass kisser. Plus, I was a woman in a VERY sexist system. Good ol boys get promoted. There were some admins that were women just like there were women principals. I'm not going into how they got their jobs. I loved teaching, it was admins and my dept head that caused the issues. That's the only reason I even tried to leave and ultimately left. Had I known they were going to be booted by year end, I'd have stayed.

[Phoenix84]

Oct 10, 2014 15:06:38 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I'd have to get another masters which I could have done but being an admin wasnt my thing. I'm not a brown noser or an ass kisser. Plus, I was a woman in a VERY sexist system. Good ol boys get promoted. There were some admins that were women just like there were women principals. I'm not going into how they got their jobs. I loved teaching, it was admins and my dept head that caused the issues. That's the only reason I even tried to leave and ultimately left. Had I known they were going to be booted by year end, I'd have stayed.

Hmmm, I would have thought if any career field would have been open to women advancing "back in the day" it would have been education.

[zibazinski]

Just to a point. The point ends at the good paying jobs. Which are admin jobs.

[TheHaitian]

Many many times...quite common in my industry actually with "good" help being so limited.

So a manager with a good employee wouldn't want to lose that employee knowing what is out there.

Heck, my grocery manager an customer service manager are still pissed at me for recommending and getting their assistants promoted to other/bigger stores.

But having been victim of it, I refuse to do it to others. I actively encourage and personally take a state in making sure my good workers get recognized and promoted. I even do some back door dealings to get them in front of the line like calling other store managers/HR managers to personally recommend the person and say how good they are and what a good job they will do.

[mmhmm]

Yep. I've had it happen to me and I've seen it happen to others. It's not uncommon in my experience.

[busymom]

It isn't just in education that good people get held down. The "good old boy's" club is alive & well. I've seen both men & women get passed over because they didn't always kiss up to the boss. (It sounds SO high school, doesn't it?)

[TheHaitian]

Oct 10, 2014 15:20:05 GMT -5 busymom said:

It isn't just in education that good people get held down. The "good old boy's" club is alive & well. I've seen both men & women get passed over because they didn't always kiss up to the boss. (It sounds SO high school, doesn't it?)

So true.. Some people I know had to relocate to different regions/zones in hopes of advancement because for as long as my current Zone Director is around they have no chance in hell in moving up.

He holds a grudge and once you have been black balled that is it.

[Deleted]

Oh heck yeah, not to pat myself on the back, but I was a pretty awesome SMT operator.  That kept me locked onto the production floor for a number of years because they "couldn't afford to lose me".  I was seriously one of only 2 or 3 that could keep a couple of these lines going and the product engineers chose me for all NPI builds. 

I finally broke out to the office, but I think I may have screwed myself over. 

[Phoenix84]

I've never actually be "promoted." Meaning that when I've gotten a better job, it's always been applying for another job at another agency and competing in a merit system. I've never had anyone say "Phoenix, we want you in this other, better job" or even encourage me to apply for a job in the same organization that is a higher grade.

But I've never been anywhere long enough for that to really happen. The longest I've been in one job is this one, at about 3.5 years.

In my experience, if you want to get promoted, you have to take the initiative and apply for new jobs yourself, and be willing to move to where the opportunities are.

I'd say willingness to apply for new jobs and my willingness to move for them has been the biggest factor in my career advancement so far.

[zibazinski]

That was how you got promoted at the bank. You either tried to go around her, damn near impossible and she'd gloat to your face for trying to. Or you quit to work for another bank and got your promotion. Banks love stealing other banks employees. 

[Phoenix84]

Oct 10, 2014 15:25:09 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oh heck yeah, not to pat myself on the back, but I was a pretty awesome SMT operator.  That kept me locked onto the production floor for a number of years because they "couldn't afford to lose me".  I was seriously one of only 2 or 3 that could keep a couple of these lines going and the product engineers chose me for all NPI builds. 

I finally broke out to the office, but I think I may have screwed myself over. 

How so?

[Phoenix84]

Oct 10, 2014 15:27:18 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That was how you got promoted at the bank. You either tried to go around her, damn near impossible and she'd gloat to your face for trying to. Or you quit to work for another bank and got your promotion. Banks love stealing other banks employees. 

Yeah, in my experience, government agencies have no qualms whatsoever about hiring another agency's employees.

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2014 15:27:32 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Oct 10, 2014 15:25:09 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oh heck yeah, not to pat myself on the back, but I was a pretty awesome SMT operator.  That kept me locked onto the production floor for a number of years because they "couldn't afford to lose me".  I was seriously one of only 2 or 3 that could keep a couple of these lines going and the product engineers chose me for all NPI builds. 

I finally broke out to the office, but I think I may have screwed myself over. 

How so?

Well, I make more per hour now, but the OT availability on the floor was huge, so my annual pay has dropped, I don't enjoy sitting at a desk as much as being on the floor and actually doing something tangible.  These days it feels like I'm just being assigned meaningless crap to do, and I worry that in times of cut backs I might get let go.  I mean how many freaking ways do they want to see the same metric or data analyzed? 

Plus, I'm no longer "awesome". 

But, it is more conducive to taking care of kids. I'm not sure how I could do a production as a single parent unless it was the weekend shift, then I'd only have to worry about Friday for getting the kids to school. 

[Phoenix84]

That's how it was when I worked for the shipyards.

A lot of techs didn't want to move up because the OT as a tech was too good.

But I always believed that you should "work smarter, not harder." I'd rather make more per hour for a 40 hour a week job than work 60+ hour weeks and get more in total.

What's really crazy is some of them financed their lifestyles on their OT, meaning if OT got cut, they couldn't afford their cars and houses.

[Ava]

I must be very fortunate, because I've never been held back by a supervisor.
On the contrary, my managers (including the current one) have encouraged me to go forward and succeed. 

When I worked at the cafeteria, I got promoted from cashier to head cashier.
It changed my life. My income increased 40% and I was able to finish my bachelor's with a fixed schedule, good benefits, and enough income to live on.
My manager announced the opening for head cashier, and when I applied for it, he told me:
"I was hoping you would apply."

My first manager at the bank is beyond awesome. When I saw the opening for this job I wanted to apply because it was a promotion and it's 15 minutes from my home. He coached me for the interview, helped me apply, and recommended me.

My current manager talks to me frequently about my future at the company and what positions should I consider to apply in about six more months. 

[Opti]

Oct 10, 2014 15:11:52 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Oct 10, 2014 15:06:38 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I'd have to get another masters which I could have done but being an admin wasnt my thing. I'm not a brown noser or an ass kisser. Plus, I was a woman in a VERY sexist system. Good ol boys get promoted. There were some admins that were women just like there were women principals. I'm not going into how they got their jobs. I loved teaching, it was admins and my dept head that caused the issues. That's the only reason I even tried to leave and ultimately left. Had I known they were going to be booted by year end, I'd have stayed.

Hmmm, I would have thought if any career field would have been open to women advancing "back in the day" it would have been education.

You mean like years ago when women had to be single

and unmarried to be permitted to teach?

[Opti]

Ava, you have been fortunate.

On reflecting I realize it is at least two women bosses

that have held me back possibly one more. Male bosses

have deep-sixed me too, but in less obvious ways.

I really need to figure out how to have mostly those

good bosses who like to have people grow and improve.

The ones that will promote you and/or clear the way for lateral

moves. I have known some. Apparently I have worked

for more of the other kind though.

[giramomma]

I'm considered the "expert" in what I help do. I specifically help run two programs and have time to spare.

There are NEW programs being developed right and left. There should be room for me to grow/apply my expertise to other programs. And I'm not given any of it. It's going to the two new hires. One of whom has very little experience.

I used to do things like coordinate software upgrades, train folks on software, beside help prepare materials. You know, have real responsibility.

I now spend about 25-30% of my time reformatting word documents. Because I was a "yes man."

I'm pretty upset about the situation. I think the only way to get more responsibilities to get out, which I'm trying to work on.

[Opti]

Oct 10, 2014 19:16:08 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I'm considered the "expert" in what I help do.

There are NEW programs being developed right and left. And I'm not given any of it. It's going to the two new hires. One of whom has very little experience.

I'm pretty upset about the situation. I think the only way to get more responsibilities to get out. 

It probably is.

I've decided it is lazy and possibly selfish managers that

say you are irreplaceable where you are. What they really

mean is 'I don't want to be bothered to replace you and I

think you'll put up with me pinning you here'.

MHO. YMMV.

[Opti]

Giramomma,

Thanks for your post. I think it enlightened me as to

why I should embrace interviewing and selling myself.

No desire to let any boss or employer do that to me

ever again, and for the shortest time reasonable if it does

occur in the future.

[Sunnyday]

Oct 10, 2014 19:16:08 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I'm considered the "expert" in what I help do. I specifically help run two programs and have time to spare.

There are NEW programs being developed right and left. There should be room for me to grow/apply my expertise to other programs. And I'm not given any of it. It's going to the two new hires. One of whom has very little experience.

I used to do things like coordinate software upgrades, train folks on software, beside help prepare materials. You know, have real responsibility.

I now spend about 25-30% of my time reformatting word documents. Because I was a "yes man."

I'm pretty upset about the situation. I think the only way to get more responsibilities to get out, which I'm trying to work on.

yes! I found myself in the same situation too. I think that in most organizations that people put other people in a box, and the only true way to move up is to move out!

[zibazinski]

I have also been sabotaged by two female bosses. One I knew was actively doing it as I was warned by someone who did manage to escape her. The other I found out by accident.

[Phoenix84]

Oct 10, 2014 19:14:40 GMT -5 Opti said:

Ava, you have been fortunate.

On reflecting I realize it is at least two women bosses

that have held me back possibly one more. Male bosses

have deep-sixed me too, but in less obvious ways.

I really need to figure out how to have mostly those

good bosses who like to have people grow and improve.

The ones that will promote you and/or clear the way for lateral

moves. I have known some. Apparently I have worked

for more of the other kind though.

Yeah, that's how my current boss is, and my bosses at the Air Force were. They were more concerned with how they could "get you" than helping you succeed.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Interesting topic. I have two secretaries who work in the school's main office with me. Both are good, but one is exceptional. I would/will be absolutely annoyed when the exceptional one is ready to move up to the district office. I need to not be selfish and ask her to stay or tell the district office they can't have her. It is good for the school, but not respectful of her.