Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Oct 7, 2014 11:16:59 GMT -5
Not only is presenting yourself important, I think it is more important to present yourself as competent than to actually be competent. In other words, bullshitting is an art form.
There's probably some truth to this. I've seen enough incompetent people in positions of authority to know that they probably did a better job of convincing others they were right for the job than actually being right for the job.
Not necessarily.
Some of the most effective (and successful) management types have the ability to take a complex situation and make it simple to understand for the average layman. Look at Dr. LaPook on CBS, Dr. Sanjay Gupta or Sully Sullenberger.
Even if you think someone's questions or assumptions are stupid, you need to put your game-face on, acknowledge their concerns and assure them that the process is fair and will work.
Good luck!
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 7, 2014 11:18:30 GMT -5
Not only is presenting yourself important, I think it is more important to present yourself as competent than to actually be competent. In other words, bullshitting is an art form.
There's probably some truth to this. I've seen enough incompetent people in positions of authority to know that they probably did a better job of convincing others they were right for the job than actually being right for the job.
I would say it more like "perception is reality".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 11:18:43 GMT -5
his employer will provide him with a laptop bag along with his laptop so it's up to him whether he wants something different. I have never been given a laptop bag WITH my work laptop. He didn't say he would get one, either? well every civil servant and contractor that received a government furnished laptop in my work environment received a laptop bag. since he's going to be a civil servant and receive a government furnished laptop, I'm pretty sure the same applies.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 7, 2014 11:23:27 GMT -5
I wouldn't want any bag the government bought, but cool beans. He can do what he wants. It was just a suggestion.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Oct 7, 2014 11:24:41 GMT -5
I wouldn't want any bag the government bought, but cool beans. He can do what he wants. It was just a suggestion. It's just a generic HP or Dell laptop bag. Chill out!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 11:29:32 GMT -5
I wouldn't want any bag the government bought, but cool beans. He can do what he wants. It was just a suggestion. It's just a generic HP or Dell laptop bag. Chill out! mine is actually a targus laptop bag....but I carry my laptop in a backpack after getting a crick in my neck lugging it through airports.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Oct 7, 2014 11:48:42 GMT -5
Since you'll be working with Military folks, get a haircut similar to theirs.
Dress pants are ok.
I agree with the poster who said don't wear dark blue and black together. It looks like you got dressed in the dark and made a mistake.
If you're going to be traveling, I would buy several pair of Dockers type slacks in dark colors and several light colored long sleeve shirts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 11:49:52 GMT -5
He'll need something to carry around his laptop in. I don't really mean a hard boxy one. I guess I mean more of a laptop bag that you can also put files/phone in. He'll need to carry around a notepad or something to take notes on. Got it. You'd think most employers would be willing to issue a bag along with a laptop to protect expensive company equipment (that's always been my experience, although I bought a Targus because it was better-made and manufactured in the US). Another area where the OP needs to wait and see.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Oct 7, 2014 12:20:40 GMT -5
One of the things you might want to work on is small talk. Just a little bit of friendly conversation, not excessive, nothing too personal, no gossip. Talk/ask about business, family, home town, alma mater, vacations, food, sports, weather, movies, books, current events that aren’t too political, etc…
Work obviously comes first, and if there is something that needs to be addressed, by all means, let that be your focus, but if someone tries to chat a bit, make an effort to reciprocate.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Oct 7, 2014 12:29:51 GMT -5
Did you read "How to Win Friends and Influence People"? DH calls it an interaction with people guide. He liked it because it gave actual techniques instead of generic advice. fgiasson.com/blog/index.php/2005/08/07/how_to_win_friends_and_influence_people/This is a quick overview of what's in the book so you can see what you are getting into. DH has recommended it to his staff (IT department) and they liked it because it was practical. Thank you for posting that link Anne. That is some really great advice!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 7, 2014 12:57:13 GMT -5
for the love of God do not wear a dark blue shirt with black pants. wear it with the khakis.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Oct 7, 2014 13:39:55 GMT -5
his employer will provide him with a laptop bag along with his laptop so it's up to him whether he wants something different. I have never been given a laptop bag WITH my work laptop. He didn't say he would get one, either? I got a plain old black Dell laptop bag with my work laptop. I have my eye something with a little more personality. And cats all over it. I might not be the expert of professional image.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 7, 2014 14:02:32 GMT -5
I agree with not running out and buying a ton of new clothes/accessories yet. See what your manager wears (well, unless your manager is the opposite sex). See what the people in higher positions wear. Whose outfits look "just right"? You may not be able to match their brand names, but you can dress similarly. I'm still pondering the briefcase thing. I suppose if everyone in your place has one you'll need one but I haven't carried one since I started carrying a laptop bag. If people are actually referring to the little, boxy suitcase things, IMO those went out in the last century. Well, I think my immediate boss will be a civilian, but I think anyone higher than that will be a Navy officer, and thus wear the uniform typical to Naval officer.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 7, 2014 14:03:48 GMT -5
I think of Khakis as a style of pant. Think Dockers. If you're not familiar with dockers - google it and look at the picture of men's Dockers. (not that I'm saying that you have to get the brand Dockers). "khakis" seem to be the go-to pants for business casual.
I always thought that men's dress pants were the kinds of pants you would get with a suit. (I'm sure someone will correct me, if I'm wrong about that) From you description, I think what I have called "dress pants" are docker style aka Kahki's.
Normally when I go buy "dress pants" I go to Kohl's and buy the stuff off the rack. Most of those are docker style.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 7, 2014 14:07:42 GMT -5
Well, I think my immediate boss will be a civilian, but I think anyone higher than that will be a Navy officer, and thus wear the uniform typical to Naval officer.
Then having perfectly ironed clothes and well polished shoes are even more important. These guys will definitely notice and (maybe unfairly, but c'est la vie) judge you on that.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 7, 2014 14:08:12 GMT -5
I wouldn't want any bag the government bought, but cool beans. He can do what he wants. It was just a suggestion. SinglemominMD is correct, if they issue a laptop, they'll issue a bag. But it'll be the cheap default canvas bag that came with it.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 7, 2014 14:10:53 GMT -5
Since you'll be working with Military folks, get a haircut similar to theirs. Dress pants are ok. I agree with the poster who said don't wear dark blue and black together. It looks like you got dressed in the dark and made a mistake. If you're going to be traveling, I would buy several pair of Dockers type slacks in dark colors and several light colored long sleeve shirts. Man, I thought dark blue and black went together. If I thought that, how can I trust myself to know what color goes with what.
Damn, I'm helpless when it comes to fashion.
Man, I need a wife.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 7, 2014 14:12:50 GMT -5
Did you read "How to Win Friends and Influence People"? DH calls it an interaction with people guide. He liked it because it gave actual techniques instead of generic advice. fgiasson.com/blog/index.php/2005/08/07/how_to_win_friends_and_influence_people/This is a quick overview of what's in the book so you can see what you are getting into. DH has recommended it to his staff (IT department) and they liked it because it was practical. Yes, actually, I did read that a while ago. My dad took a Dale Carnagie course back in the day and I found his book and read it.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Oct 7, 2014 14:12:53 GMT -5
Well, I think my immediate boss will be a civilian, but I think anyone higher than that will be a Navy officer, and thus wear the uniform typical to Naval officer.
Then having perfectly ironed clothes and well polished shoes are even more important. These guys will definitely notice and (maybe unfairly, but c'est la vie) judge you on that. Yes they will but in my experience a man can get by with wrinkle free dress shirts and docker style dress pants with no problem. Keep a tie in the office in the event a high ranking official will be swinging by that day.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Oct 7, 2014 14:33:16 GMT -5
Since you'll be working with Military folks, get a haircut similar to theirs. Dress pants are ok. I agree with the poster who said don't wear dark blue and black together. It looks like you got dressed in the dark and made a mistake. If you're going to be traveling, I would buy several pair of Dockers type slacks in dark colors and several light colored long sleeve shirts. Man, I thought dark blue and black went together. If I thought that, how can I trust myself to know what color goes with what.
Damn, I'm hapless when it comes to fashion.
Man, I need a wife.
Light pants - dark shirt. Light shirt - dark pants. Pants in neutrals - tan, brown, black, grey, etc. Shirts colored. nothing to worry about. So if you did a light blue shirt and black, you would be good. Don't to black and brown together either.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Oct 7, 2014 14:42:49 GMT -5
Man, I thought dark blue and black went together. If I thought that, how can I trust myself to know what color goes with what.
Damn, I'm hapless when it comes to fashion.
Man, I need a wife.
Light pants - dark shirt. Light shirt - dark pants. Pants in neutrals - tan, brown, black, grey, etc. Shirts colored. nothing to worry about. So if you did a light blue shirt and black, you would be good. Don't to black and brown together either. And don't buy green pants no matter how much you like them!
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 7, 2014 14:59:39 GMT -5
I'm really not sure how much of this fashion advice is the "real deal" or just particular people's preferences - which may or may not be generalized to everybody. I hardly think phoenix is going into the fashion hub here. I'm ok with a blue shirt and black pants. I don't think he's talking navy blue here - but a royal blue type blue shirt that I think is fine for guy to wear to work. I can't be bothered to notice if male coworkers sleeves are short or long. Being comfortable and not getting overheated and sweaty is more professional. Stop playing barbie with him. he isn't a doll to dress up like you 'prefer' or wish you SO would dress. You're freaking him out thinking this is important in the workplace and as long as he has on dress pants and a shirt that is ironed and stain and odor free - it is NOT going to impact his professional image. yeah. fashion isn't worth shit. it is a prerequisite that he dresses appropriately. Other than that, no one cares.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 15:01:56 GMT -5
I'm really not sure how much of this fashion advice is the "real deal" or just particular people's preferences - which may or may not be generalized to everybody. I hardly think phoenix is going into the fashion hub here. I'm ok with a blue shirt and black pants. I don't think he's talking navy blue here - but a royal blue type blue shirt that I think is fine for guy to wear to work. I can't be bothered to notice if male coworkers sleeves are short or long. Being comfortable and not getting overheated and sweaty is more professional. Stop playing barbie with him. he isn't a doll to dress up like you 'prefer' or wish you SO would dress. You're freaking him out thinking this is important in the workplace and as long as he has on dress pants and a shirt that is ironed and stain and odor free - it is NOT going to impact his professional image. he's a single male that I assume would like to date/be in a relationship....our advice crosses into that realm. plus he's going to be around a lot of navy officers who are going to look hot in their uniforms (except for the summer whites LOL) so he needs to look just as good.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Oct 7, 2014 15:15:54 GMT -5
Stop playing barbie with him. he isn't a doll to dress up like you 'prefer' or wish you SO would dress. You're freaking him out thinking this is important in the workplace and as long as he has on dress pants and a shirt that is ironed and stain and odor free - it is NOT going to impact his professional image. Whaaaaaaah!
Why are you taking my Phoenix doll away! My friends and I were having so much fun!
Spoil sport!
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Oct 7, 2014 16:45:27 GMT -5
If you are working with Navy officers, I'd pay more attention to shoes. Two pair- black to go with black or grey pants. A nice dark brown to go with khaki/beige pants. You are going to spend a lot of time on your feet, so these don't need to be "dress" shoes, but good quality, nice looking, preferably leather shoes. (You might also consider a good pair of inserts, as you'll also often be on concrete.) In my experience, men notice inappropriate shoes, and military men notice shoes in poor shape.
I have a Kenneth Cole, messenger style, brown leather, laptop bag that I LOVE. It's a little on the small side, but that makes it great for commuting on public transit AND it has pockets for both a laptop and a tablet. DO NOT buy a new laptop bag until AFTER you have your laptop. Many say they will fit a certain size laptop but really don't. I actually took my computer with me when I went bag shopping to make sure I got one that was the right size. But there are a lot of different laptop bags out there. Find one you like the look of. Because it may be getting lots of wear, you might want to consider a heavy duty canvas instead of leather, as it won't show scuffs. But that's all personal preference.
Okay, that's all I can tell you about fashion, and it's not even much. I can tell you a bit more about projecting a professional image with your coworkers, regardless of what you wear.
1) Be nice to everyone. You will naturally like some coworkers more than others. That is human nature. But you need to be polite and civil to everyone you work with.
2) Learn to share your knowledge without being a know-it-all. This can be a very fine line to walk, especially at first, as you get to know those around you. It's best approached by asking questions. If you see someone doing something a different way than you've been taught, ask them why they do it that way, mention you were taught something different, but treat it as an opportunity to learn at the same time you teach.
3) Be helpful to the extent you can without neglecting your own duties.
4) Don't approach someone at their desk for chit chat. Water cooler/break room/hallway small talk is fine (and even a little expected), but when someone is at their desk/in their work space, only interrupt them if you have an actual work related question.
5) Say Hello/good morning/good evening/whatever to security guards, receptionists, and front desk personnel. Learn their names.
6) Listen. Do not interrupt, even if something they say reminds you of something important, or gives you a great idea. Instead, jot down a quick note for yourself to bring up once the person you're speaking to is done speaking.
7) There are NO dumb questions. You are inspecting nuclear power (if I am not mistaken). Any question anyone asks you needs to be treated seriously and with consideration. They wouldn't be asking you if they didn't know (unless they are trying to test you), and it will never hurt you to treat their questions with respect.
I lied, one more piece of fashion advice: 8) Learn the dress code/rules for the techs who work on the engines. Follow those rules to the extent that makes sense for you. For example, my friend who worked on the Enterprise's nuclear engines could not wear his wedding ring when on duty, as there was a fear it could get caught in the machinery. I believe they also weren't allowed to wear their belts in the engine room. So if you're going to inspect the engines on a nuclear sub (and I have no idea if this is what you'll be doing or not), and the rules for the techs are no jewelry, no belts, no laces on their shoes, make sure your wardrobe also follows those rules.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Oct 7, 2014 17:11:34 GMT -5
he's a single male that I assume would like to date/be in a relationship....our advice crosses into that realm. plus he's going to be around a lot of navy officers who are going to look hot in their uniforms (except for the summer whites LOL) so he needs to look just as good. LOL - meanwhile - the YM wisdom is to NOT buy our tween/teen daughters all the beautiful clothes and shoes their friends have because it doesn't mean anything isn't worth it, blah blah blah.... And - I'll just insert - the old saw on avoiding workplace romances.....particularly - when you are just walking in the door..... ^ ^ He's totally gay. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Oct 7, 2014 17:13:09 GMT -5
Not only is presenting yourself important, I think it is more important to present yourself as competent than to actually be competent. Lol!!!! How true!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Oct 7, 2014 17:27:02 GMT -5
I'm really not sure how much of this fashion advice is the "real deal" or just particular people's preferences - which may or may not be generalized to everybody. I hardly think phoenix is going into the fashion hub here. I'm ok with a blue shirt and black pants. I don't think he's talking navy blue here - but a royal blue type blue shirt that I think is fine for guy to wear to work. I can't be bothered to notice if male coworkers sleeves are short or long. Being comfortable and not getting overheated and sweaty is more professional. Stop playing barbie with him. he isn't a doll to dress up like you 'prefer' or wish you SO would dress. You're freaking him out thinking this is important in the workplace and as long as he has on dress pants and a shirt that is ironed and stain and odor free - it is NOT going to impact his professional image. he's a single male that I assume would like to date/be in a relationship....our advice crosses into that realm. plus he's going to be around a lot of navy officers who are going to look hot in their uniforms (except for the summer whites LOL) so he needs to look just as good. And to continue on my O-T train of thought Phoenix, if you really want to meet women take some dance lessons. Women LOVE a man who can dance.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 7, 2014 17:28:56 GMT -5
Most military folks I've interacted with are nice. But I have noted that conformity is important in the military and the officers do expect a certain "spit and polish" even among civilians. So having good shoes will probably be important.
Anyway, good advice so far, keep it coming.
I learned long ago in this field that if you don't know the answer, don't BS, don't stall, just say "I don't know, but I'll look it up and get back to you." Giving people bad information in this line of work never pays off.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 7, 2014 19:08:39 GMT -5
wxyz is spot on. Especially with the Nordstrom suggestion - go to Nordstrom and get a consultant in the men's department to help you with a few basics. IMHO Neiman is more expensive and the sales staff can be too snooty to help. Nordstrom is primo service at prices that are reasonable for the quality.
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