The Liberal Assault on the NFL

[Virgil Showlion]

Maybe somebody should tell the feminists that, statistically speaking, men are by far the biggest victims of violence.

I agree that feminists side with the leftists. I wouldn't say they make up it's "core". It doesn't really have much of a cohesive "core" to begin with.

[Angel!]

I think the problem is you try to put people into little boxes & identify everything they believe based on some label.

I am definitely very socially liberal.  But, I love football.  Heck I love hockey too & that I would say is more violent since fights are allowed.  Love watching the sports, love playing football.  Have no problem with the players salary or the fact the NFL is all men (there are women's league also). So when you say the left hates football, it is kind of silly.  I don't think there is a large group on the left that hates football...maybe some smaller group, but as a whole no, they don't. 

You can believe what you want.  You can try to put people into boxes based on labels & then tell them what they believe because of a label.  But, honestly it comes across as crazy rantings.  Especially to liberals who go  because we don't hate football & honestly don't see any reason to hate football.  

Are going to call me a conservative now because I love football?

[happyhoix]

My reason for starting this thread is that when you have a media message that is that far out of touch with the real problems we're facing, you have a political agenda at the heart of it.

No, only in your special little world, Paul, where everything is related to the Liberal Agenda.

This thing was blown out of proportion because of the sensational video showing him punching his wife, and then dragging her out of the elevator. Sensational video is like catnip to the news media - they show it over and over and over,  and then all the talking heads have to pile on, blathering away.
 
And this is far less terrifying then talking about how badly ISIS wants to kill us. In frightening times, people leap at the chance for some frothy diversions.

[djAdvocate]

wouldn't surprise me, and i am not defending Clinton, but i believe that everyone is innocent until guilt is shown, right?

[happyhoix]

I agree that feminists side with the leftists. I wouldn't say they make up it's "core". It doesn't really have much of a cohesive "core" to begin with.

I don't track what the feminist movement does that much, so I was surprised to read in an article in the New Yorker that the feminists are currently involved in an internal blood soaked knock down drag out over whether women who were born men and then changed sexes are actually 'women' and whether they ought to be allowed to participate in women only events.

Apparently it has gotten very nasty. 

So I don't think there is much of a cohesive 'core' even within the feminist movement itself... 

 

[Tennesseer]

Sept 22, 2014 16:06:52 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 22, 2014 15:51:47 GMT -5 greeniis10 said:

I'm with you, rockon.  If an NFL player is a domestic abuser he probably was one prior to playing in the league.  The NFL did not make him that way. 

Nor is the NFL responsible for him-- that's why we have the justice system, and that seems to have run its course.  It is certainly the prerogative of the NFL to do what they see fit to protect their brand.  What bothers me about this issue is the "uproar".  The selective moral outrage on the whole thing.  You've got journalists getting their heads lopped off by people who take video of it and caption it "A Message To America" in which they threaten to come here and commit mass-murder, you have a completely lawless President who won't secure the southern border because his party is desperate to import warm bodies for the purpose of mass-election fraud, a vice President- second in line to the office of the President who is a likely candidate for the dementia ward at Bethesda, and a media worried about whether the NFL commissioner should resign because one of his players knocked his fiance, now wife, unconscious and the matter was fully adjudicated.  

My reason for starting this thread is that when you have a media message that is that far out of touch with the real problems we're facing, you have a political agenda at the heart of it.  In my opinion, the left hates "jocks" in general, and especially professional sports- and the NFL tops the list because it is a full-contact sport played exclusively by MEN, and the left has a strong fringe, kook feminist spirit at its innermost ideological core.

I would expect nothing less from someone who posts, "But in my heart of hearts, I think it's fine to slap a woman now and then-- open handed-- when she deserves it."

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 22, 2014 16:28:10 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 22, 2014 16:06:52 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Nor is the NFL responsible for him-- that's why we have the justice system, and that seems to have run its course.  It is certainly the prerogative of the NFL to do what they see fit to protect their brand.  What bothers me about this issue is the "uproar".  The selective moral outrage on the whole thing.  You've got journalists getting their heads lopped off by people who take video of it and caption it "A Message To America" in which they threaten to come here and commit mass-murder, you have a completely lawless President who won't secure the southern border because his party is desperate to import warm bodies for the purpose of mass-election fraud, a vice President- second in line to the office of the President who is a likely candidate for the dementia ward at Bethesda, and a media worried about whether the NFL commissioner should resign because one of his players knocked his fiance, now wife, unconscious and the matter was fully adjudicated.  

My reason for starting this thread is that when you have a media message that is that far out of touch with the real problems we're facing, you have a political agenda at the heart of it.  In my opinion, the left hates "jocks" in general, and especially professional sports- and the NFL tops the list because it is a full-contact sport played exclusively by MEN, and the left has a strong fringe, kook feminist spirit at its innermost ideological core.

I would expect nothing less from someone who posts, "But in my heart of hearts, I think it's fine to slap a woman now and then-- open handed-- when she deserves it."

Yeah, but that's because I think it's OK to slap anyone who deserves it.  I just don't make exceptions for hysterical women who are spitting in my face.  I don't think you slug or punch a woman, or get into a scrap with a woman.  But women are like anyone else- they'll treat you just about the way you permit them to until they find out you have a limit, and there are consequences.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 22, 2014 16:34:11 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 22, 2014 16:28:10 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I would expect nothing less from someone who posts, "But in my heart of hearts, I think it's fine to slap a woman now and then-- open handed-- when she deserves it."

Yeah, but that's because I think it's OK to slap anyone who deserves it.  I just don't make exceptions for hysterical women who are spitting in my face.  I don't think you slug or punch a woman, or get into a scrap with a woman.  But women are like anyone else- they'll treat you just about the way you permit them to until they find out you have a limit, and there are consequences.

What's your limit? And not your public persona limit but your behind closed doors limit?

[steff]

Sept 22, 2014 16:18:01 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I think the problem is you try to put people into little boxes & identify everything they believe based on some label.

I am definitely very socially liberal.  But, I love football.  Heck I love hockey too & that I would say is more violent since fights are allowed.  Love watching the sports, love playing football.  Have no problem with the players salary or the fact the NFL is all men (there are women's league also). So when you say the left hates football, it is kind of silly.  I don't think there is a large group on the left that hates football...maybe some smaller group, but as a whole no, they don't. 

You can believe what you want.  You can try to put people into boxes based on labels & then tell them what they believe because of a label.  But, honestly it comes across as crazy rantings.  Especially to liberals who go  because we don't hate football & honestly don't see any reason to hate football.  

Are going to call me a conservative now because I love football?

he'll tell you that you aren't really a Liberal....like me.   Welcome to the club!  

[Angel!]

Sept 22, 2014 16:41:56 GMT -5 steff said:

Sept 22, 2014 16:18:01 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I think the problem is you try to put people into little boxes & identify everything they believe based on some label.

I am definitely very socially liberal.  But, I love football.  Heck I love hockey too & that I would say is more violent since fights are allowed.  Love watching the sports, love playing football.  Have no problem with the players salary or the fact the NFL is all men (there are women's league also). So when you say the left hates football, it is kind of silly.  I don't think there is a large group on the left that hates football...maybe some smaller group, but as a whole no, they don't. 

You can believe what you want.  You can try to put people into boxes based on labels & then tell them what they believe because of a label.  But, honestly it comes across as crazy rantings.  Especially to liberals who go  because we don't hate football & honestly don't see any reason to hate football.  

Are going to call me a conservative now because I love football?

he'll tell you that you aren't really a Liberal....like me.   Welcome to the club!  

Conservatives do need more pro-choice & pro-gay marriage folks in their ranks. Yay for being a conservative!!!

I also noticed PBP ignored my post.  I bet it is because in his heart of hearts he know, claiming all liberals hate football is absolutely absurd.

[happyhoix]

Yeah, but that's because I think it's OK to slap anyone who deserves it. I just don't make exceptions for hysterical women who are spitting in my face. I don't think you slug or punch a woman, or get into a scrap with a woman. But women are like anyone else- they'll treat you just about the way you permit them to until they find out you have a limit, and there are consequences.

Hmmm, my DH has never slapped me or touched me in anger in any way - ever - and yet I know what his limits are really, really well. I know what would make him mad, and I know what would make him walk out the door and not come back.

How do you suppose he demonstrated what his limits were, without resorting to violence and physical intimidation?

[swamp]

Sept 22, 2014 15:14:07 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Sept 22, 2014 14:23:23 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Same thing in different words, I'm flexible. They wouldn't of "allowed" a plea deal if they were sure of a conviction. The "big star" reason is just conjecture on your part. Regardless, there is still no "automatic felony" for hitting a female. That was my only point of comment.

Sure they would.  Ask swamp, a plea deal is almost always offered.  It is far easier than a trial & less time consuming.  It has nothing to do with likelihood of conviction, but getting him through the system the quickest & easiest way possible.

Bingo. 

[swamp]

Sept 22, 2014 16:11:18 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Maybe somebody should tell the feminists that, statistically speaking, men are by far the biggest victims of violence.

I agree that feminists side with the leftists. I wouldn't say they make up it's "core". It doesn't really have much of a cohesive "core" to begin with.

From other men, not the women in their lives. 

[OldCoyote]

I'm sure glad the ladies don't hit


www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24721129/video-bloody-fan-brawl-breaks-out-at-49ers-cardinals-game

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 22, 2014 18:29:57 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 22, 2014 16:11:18 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Maybe somebody should tell the feminists that, statistically speaking, men are by far the biggest victims of violence.

I agree that feminists side with the leftists. I wouldn't say they make up it's "core". It doesn't really have much of a cohesive "core" to begin with.

From other men, not the women in their lives. 

Wife-on-husband attacks make up a pretty good chunk of it. The article says it makes up 40% of all domestic violence. I've read other articles that say woman-on-man exceeds man-on-woman violence in the household, but isn't reflected in the statistics due to social stigma, etc.

Granted, I'm one of the backwards people who wonders whether abused men couldn't toughen up a little, but in many cases it would seem that spousal abuse is a reciprocal effort, with man and woman alternately attacking each other. This is (correct me if I'm wrong) the case with Mr. Rice in the NFL.

The question becomes: What is the best way for a man to deal with a physically abusive spouse? Or just as relevant: To what extent should a man leverage his strength in defending himself from an abusive spouse?

Frankly I'm glad the issue is a million miles away from my family. All men should at least consider the question: How far would you go to defend yourself from a female attacker? Because as the video shows, it's not exactly a fair fight in most cases, and the public isn't exactly a bastion of sympathy for men who punch women.

[happyhoix]

The question becomes: What is the best way for a man to deal with a physically abusive spouse? Or just as relevant: To what extent should a man leverage his strength in defending himself from an abusive spouse?

Walk away. Put a locked door between you. If she comes at you swinging, grab her in a bear hug and hang on until she wears herself out, then grab the kids and the car keys and leave to give her a nice long cooling off period. Personally, unless this was a one time freak out due to highly unusual circumstances, that would be the very last time my wife assaulted me, but I have a low tolerance for physical abuse in any form. 

Unfortunately there are a lot of people, men and women both, who have the screwed up idea that if your spouse isn't having screaming melt downs on you, he/she doesn't really love you.

 

[zibazinski]

On the other hand, I really don't give a shit about global warming in the face of ISIS and other real issues. Speaking about that instead of real issues? WTF? HE has the worst advisors ever.

[happyhoix]

Wife-on-husband attacks make up a pretty good chunk of it. The article says it makes up 40% of all domestic violence.

This is not surprising - men are less likely to admit they get physically abused because they don't want to admit a girl beats them up. And there are plenty of out of control, crazy ass women out there.

I think when it comes to verbal abuse, the numbers might be even higher, at least from my own experience in my family. Both my mom and one of my sisters were screamers who had melt downs when they didn't get their way, and then sulked and refused to speak to their spouses, sometimes for months on end, until their spouse gave in to them.  I think neither of them would have hit their spouses, for fear of getting hit back, but verbal abuse is safer. 

Neither is acceptable, though - sure puts a strain on the whole household.



 

[mmhmm]

It's my guess the issue would boil down to about even between the sexes when it comes to abuse. Abuse comes in other than physical form and any abuse is damaging. There is, however, no excuse for taking it to physical abuse that can result in physical injury. Spin and pin, or walk away, as happyhoix suggested. That goes for both genders.

I actually saw a man fend off an attack by another man by simply putting his hand on top of the smaller man's head and holding him at bay while he wore himself out (and made a fool of himself in the process). The attacker was about 5'8", the intended "victim" was about 6". Difference in weight was probably about 40 pounds, give or take. There was no need to clock the smaller man. The larger man kept his cool and dealt with the situation in a responsible manner.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 22, 2014 16:26:55 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

wouldn't surprise me, and i am not defending Clinton, but i believe that everyone is innocent until guilt is shown, right?

I agree.  I stated that I found it credible, and if it had been ANYONE else- say, Todd Aiken, a lot of "other people" would have, too.  I just think each person should take a look at things objectively, and decide for themselves if it's a credible claim.  My opinion is informed by a number of things, but a few factors include asking myself- is this woman really that good an actress?  It wouldn't be totally unusual, but she was rather compelling.  Secondly, she put herself through an awful lot to come forward and make this accusation.  It wouldn't be the first time a woman falsely accused a man of rape, nor would it be the first time one did so without understanding the full ramifications of making such an accusation against a public figure (things get ugly), but I think it's been long enough, and by the time of this interview- she'd seen enough to know what she was getting into.  And you know what motivates people to do things under those circumstances: a longing for justice.  You don't have to believe her- I certainly don't think we have enough here for a conviction.  But there's enough for a judgment call for her and against Clinton serving in public office-- especially with his track record which is another factor in my judgment call-- and that's what I've done.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 23, 2014 7:27:25 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

On the other hand, I really don't give a shit about global warming in the face of ISIS and other real issues. Speaking about that instead of real issues? WTF? HE has the worst advisors ever.

It's worse than that- climate change cultists are outright dangerous. They're literally insane, and I regard them as a threat to themselves and others who should be closely monitored-- and definitely denied the right to own a gun.

But in all seriousness- the town south of us has lost their collective minds...

government.brevardtimes.com/2014/09/satellite-beach-plans-for-rising-sea.html

[happyhoix]

And you know what motivates people to do things under those circumstances: a longing for justice.

Possibly, or possibly she's an attention whore eager to play a poor victim in the national lime light who found some anti-Clinton people who urged her to make a stink to embarress the president. Two of the people who came forward to say she told them about the rape were angry with Clinton because he commuted the sentence of the man who killed their dad, so that starts to put the whiff of a frame job on this story.

I don't know the woman, so I don't know which she is. I just find her story less likely than likely, primarly due to her waffling, over time, over whether it actually happened or not. I could be wrong, though.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 23, 2014 4:55:08 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Sept 22, 2014 18:29:57 GMT -5 swamp said:

From other men, not the women in their lives. 

Wife-on-husband attacks make up a pretty good chunk of it. The article says it makes up 40% of all domestic violence. I've read other articles that say woman-on-man exceeds man-on-woman violence in the household, but isn't reflected in the statistics due to social stigma, etc.

Granted, I'm one of the backwards people who wonders whether abused men couldn't toughen up a little, but in many cases it would seem that spousal abuse is a reciprocal effort, with man and woman alternately attacking each other. This is (correct me if I'm wrong) the case with Mr. Rice in the NFL.

The question becomes: What is the best way for a man to deal with a physically abusive spouse? Or just as relevant: To what extent should a man leverage his strength in defending himself from an abusive spouse?

Frankly I'm glad the issue is a million miles away from my family. All men should at least consider the question: How far would you go to defend yourself from a female attacker? Because as the video shows, it's not exactly a fair fight in most cases, and the public isn't exactly a bastion of sympathy for men who punch women.

My wife gets crazy sometimes and throws stuff at me or hits me.  But let's be honest.  She isn't knocking me out and I am not a big guy. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 22, 2014 16:38:52 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 22, 2014 16:34:11 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Yeah, but that's because I think it's OK to slap anyone who deserves it.  I just don't make exceptions for hysterical women who are spitting in my face.  I don't think you slug or punch a woman, or get into a scrap with a woman.  But women are like anyone else- they'll treat you just about the way you permit them to until they find out you have a limit, and there are consequences.

What's your limit? And not your public persona limit but your behind closed doors limit?

It's a very, very high limit.  No one has managed to find it yet.  Well, one kid did in highschool- hit me numerous times, like maybe four before I finally defended myself. But that was in public, so until now no one has found my behind closed doors limit.  The behind closed doors limit is much higher since I can take a beating, and there's no precedent being set for others.  In the case of that kid, he had to go down or I would have projected weakness and invited other bullies to pile on.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 23, 2014 9:21:37 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 23, 2014 4:55:08 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Wife-on-husband attacks make up a pretty good chunk of it. The article says it makes up 40% of all domestic violence. I've read other articles that say woman-on-man exceeds man-on-woman violence in the household, but isn't reflected in the statistics due to social stigma, etc.

Granted, I'm one of the backwards people who wonders whether abused men couldn't toughen up a little, but in many cases it would seem that spousal abuse is a reciprocal effort, with man and woman alternately attacking each other. This is (correct me if I'm wrong) the case with Mr. Rice in the NFL.

The question becomes: What is the best way for a man to deal with a physically abusive spouse? Or just as relevant: To what extent should a man leverage his strength in defending himself from an abusive spouse?

Frankly I'm glad the issue is a million miles away from my family. All men should at least consider the question: How far would you go to defend yourself from a female attacker? Because as the video shows, it's not exactly a fair fight in most cases, and the public isn't exactly a bastion of sympathy for men who punch women.

My wife gets crazy sometimes and throws stuff at me or hits me.  But let's be honest.  She isn't knocking me out and I am not a big guy. 

Serious question- that is felony assault and battery if she actually hit you.  If that happened, and you called the authorities, what would happen to her?  Seriously?

Now, reverse the situation- what would happen to you?

Ask yourself this- if you restrained her from picking something up and throwing it at you and left bruises on her wrist and she called the police- what would happen to you?

There's definitely a double standard.  It's wise to be aware of it, but I think men don't face as much of a threat not because we're bigger and stronger- but because men in general aren't stupid enough to stick around if the situation is genuinely life threatening.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 23, 2014 9:29:12 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 23, 2014 9:21:37 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

My wife gets crazy sometimes and throws stuff at me or hits me.  But let's be honest.  She isn't knocking me out and I am not a big guy. 

Serious question- that is felony assault and battery if she actually hit you.  If that happened, and you called the authorities, what would happen to her?  Seriously?

Now, reverse the situation- what would happen to you?

Ask yourself this- if you restrained her from picking something up and throwing it at you and left bruises on her wrist and she called the police- what would happen to you?

There's definitely a double standard.  It's wise to be aware of it, but I think men don't face as much of a threat not because we're bigger and stronger- but because men in general aren't stupid enough to stick around if the situation is genuinely life threatening.

Seriously.  I would not call the cops on my wife.   

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 23, 2014 9:29:54 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 23, 2014 9:29:12 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Serious question- that is felony assault and battery if she actually hit you.  If that happened, and you called the authorities, what would happen to her?  Seriously?

Now, reverse the situation- what would happen to you?

Ask yourself this- if you restrained her from picking something up and throwing it at you and left bruises on her wrist and she called the police- what would happen to you?

There's definitely a double standard.  It's wise to be aware of it, but I think men don't face as much of a threat not because we're bigger and stronger- but because men in general aren't stupid enough to stick around if the situation is genuinely life threatening.

Seriously.  I would not call the cops on my wife.   

Hypothetically.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 23, 2014 9:32:30 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 23, 2014 9:29:54 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Seriously.  I would not call the cops on my wife.   

Hypothetically.

Hypothetically I think the cops would tell us to both cool down and take it easy. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 23, 2014 9:33:46 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 23, 2014 9:32:30 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Hypothetically.

Hypothetically I think the cops would tell us to both cool down and take it easy. 

Right- I agree.  That is my point.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 23, 2014 8:16:01 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

It's my guess the issue would boil down to about even between the sexes when it comes to abuse. Abuse comes in other than physical form and any abuse is damaging. There is, however, no excuse for taking it to physical abuse that can result in physical injury. Spin and pin, or walk away, as happyhoix suggested. That goes for both genders.

I actually saw a man fend off an attack by another man by simply putting his hand on top of the smaller man's head and holding him at bay while he wore himself out (and made a fool of himself in the process). The attacker was about 5'8", the intended "victim" was about 6". Difference in weight was probably about 40 pounds, give or take. There was no need to clock the smaller man. The larger man kept his cool and dealt with the situation in a responsible manner.

It's always better to defuse a situation if you can.  I think in the case of Rice, with his prowess as an athlete, and his strength- he EASILY could have gotten away.  If she was really a threat, why get in the elevator with her?  I suspect his motivation for doing so was that he was waiting for those doors to close thinking he'd be "alone" with her precisely so he could knock her senseless.  But this is really for the other thread in current events.

I think the left has seized upon the issue to create a huge national crisis where none really exists because they simply do not like the NFL.  It's a big-money, big-capitalist, full contact sport- complete with WINNERS and LOSERS where points cannot be "redistributed", and it is played exclusively by MEN.  Winning, losing, violence, testosterone- these are all an affront to liberalism.  And in the process of trying to seize upon this as an issue, they will grab as many golden eggs as they can before finally killing the golden goose- don't dismiss this as not a shakedown as well.