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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 19:30:45 GMT -5
I won't change my stance on "if attacked, one has the right to do what's necessary to stop the attack, regardless of the gender of the attacker"... but... I looked at several different videos of the attack, some "cleaned up" to get the jumpiness out of it, others in slow-motion. And I'm no longer convinced that he didn't start the physical contact part of the confrontation. So... all that basically means, my stance is unchanged on the general idea of self defense, but I'm no longer defending Ray Rice's actions as self defense. I'm no longer defending his actions in any way. I'm curious.... What did you see in the video that made you change your stance on the self defense angle for Ray Rice? I'm not going to hunt for it again, but in several of the "clean up" ones, there's a few seconds of interaction on the far side of the elevator BEFORE he backs away that put in doubt him not starting it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 19:31:55 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity... I wonder how much of her becoming unconscious can be attributed to her being inebriated. Drunk people become unconscious much easier than sober people. funny- i was wondering how much of HIS being inebriated contributed to HIM knocking her unconscious. There's that too. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 19:37:19 GMT -5
if Paul sees fit to continue the tangential discussion when he's back online, I'd say that's a good idea. I agree. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 20:53:34 GMT -5
Paul is absolutely right. Liberalism can take facts or situations and literally paint them to be anything that suits their agenda. Punching a cop in the face and accosting a clerk in a convenience store = good. Wife beating = bad, but they aren't sooo concerned about Ray Rice but about punishing the NFL and trying to discredit football which is the REAL agenda. wtf are you talking about? |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 20:54:26 GMT -5
Kind of. No. Total playa. Nope, complete badass, especially in Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. They all used force. you said kill. try again? |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 20:57:57 GMT -5
Ok, gonna ramble for a minute.... I've already said that I'm a Liberal and that I love football. I watch more football than both of the men in my house put together. I watch college football on Friday nights, all day Saturday, I watch pro football on Sundays, Mondays, and any Thursday night games. I plan my weekends around what sports I'm watching, be it football or racing. Everyone who knows me, knows not to bug me on Talladega weekends. My mom watched a Cleveland pre-season game just so she could see Johnny Football since she knows I'm an A&M fan & a Johnny fan. We have 2 male friends that call me when they have football questions (both from another country, so they actually do have real questions). For the last 2 years, I'm not allowed in our football pool because I've won too many times. I make our college bowl game pool selections. Because I LOVE football. I love the passion that it can be played with and, somewhat sadly, I love the big hits. I've also said that I was raised in a violent home. football is a violent game. I'm the first to yell out "kill the QB" when it's a team I don't like. I'll groan and yell when I see a great catch or a receiver get taken out brutally. A part of me enjoys the violence of the game. But I've always seen it as a game, on the field. The violence is contained to the game. but the reality is, it's not as contained as I wish/hoped/pretended it was. All too often the violence carries over in real life. Until recently, I felt that I had worked out a balance between my loathing of violence and my love of such a violent game. as much as I love a good smashing hit, I agree with new rules meant to protect players in light of all the head injury issues. reading up on Chris Henry & how his off field issues were directly tied to the brain damage he had suffered already had me looking at a players off field behavior differently. But maybe that was just feeding into my justification of it being "controlled violence/a game". when I've taken a stand against something to do with football, I've focused on just the player involved and the team he's playing for (Michael Vick & Ben Rothlesburger specifically). But the NFL has so royally screwed the pooch on this one that I wonder how much I should have been looking at them as well as the players. the flood gates have opened now and all the ugly that is hidden is now spilling out. I've always been against using athletes as role models for kids anyway. All of these recent issues have just reinforced that belief. I love football. I'm not ready to throw my football baby out with the bathwater, but something is going to have to change. Violence against women & children (and yes, I believe beating your kids ass with a switch is violence against a child) are 2 things that I'm very vocal about being against & it's where I donate my time volunteering. and to end on a positive note about football (which is hard to do lately), my kiddo found me this video today about a kid from UGA. when I watched the video, I couldn't help but wonder, which person is really learning the most of the situation? the young man or the women in the group? and it reminds me why I'm not ready to just throw away football. www.cbsnews.com/news/football-star-shows-you-cant-judge-a-book-by-its-cover/* Removed persuant to Chiver's request to drop the political side of the discussion. - mmhmm, Administrator not if i have anything to say about it. i like you just like you are, steff.  |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 21:01:52 GMT -5
moonbattery? LOL! clever page name. With respect to your comment- "if it will be destroyed, it will be from within, from their own corruption and dross. don't blame anyone other than the NFL for that, or be caught out in that lie by anyone paying attention. your choice." -- There's some truth to it to be sure. I'm not a fan of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but I've long thought that it was a mistake, and a sign of societal decay in general when somewhere along the line, we as fans started accepting degenerate lifestyles, drug use, lying about drug use, violent and other criminal behavior by professional athletes. The NFL's corruption-- and I agree with you that it exists, is a microcosm of our entire society's win-at-all-costs mentality. And I'm not naive-- I know that in the past it was easier to sweep scandals under the rug. I know the media ran cover for Pete Rose, Lance Armstrong, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, and others and they got away with things for a long time. Hopefully, this manner of limelight will result in some positive change. Hopefully it will not just degenerate into a politicized mess the way so much of life does these days. money corrupts, as a general rule. especially when it comes this fast and this big. |
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Post by tallguy on Sept 15, 2014 21:15:18 GMT -5
Paul is absolutely right. Liberalism can take facts or situations and literally paint them to be anything that suits their agenda. Punching a cop in the face and accosting a clerk in a convenience store = good. Wife beating = bad, but they aren't sooo concerned about Ray Rice but about punishing the NFL and trying to discredit football which is the REAL agenda. wtf are you talking about?
See, this is why I consider you such an optimist. You ask a question of (and apparently expect a rational answer from) possibly the single worst debater I have encountered. Would a pessimist (or even a realist) do that?
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 21:39:36 GMT -5
wtf are you talking about?
See, this is why I consider you such an optimist. You ask a question of (and apparently expect a rational answer from) possibly the single worst debater I have encountered. Would a pessimist (or even a realist) do that?
maybe. if you mean by "optimist" that i hope to learn something interesting every time i ask a question, then yes, i am an optimist. i just think i am congenitally curious. |
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Post by tallguy on Sept 15, 2014 21:45:16 GMT -5
You put it your way, I'll put it mine....  |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 22:01:18 GMT -5
You put it your way, I'll put it mine.... are you one of those guys who can't even be told they are RIGHT?  |
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Post by tallguy on Sept 15, 2014 22:17:31 GMT -5
No. In fact I get told that I'm right all the time.
My original point though was that you seem to expect good from the most unlikeliest of sources. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 22:18:57 GMT -5
No. In fact I get told that I'm right all the time.
My original point though was that you seem to expect good from the most unlikeliest of sources. would it surprise you to learn that i have seen it in Shooby?  |
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Post by tallguy on Sept 15, 2014 22:23:29 GMT -5
It would if you'd seen it often. |
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 15, 2014 22:24:58 GMT -5
Gentlemen, let's get off the subject of Shooby and back on the topic of the thread, please. Thanks, ever so! mmhmm, Administrator and pillow seeker
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 22:45:18 GMT -5
Gentlemen, let's get off the subject of Shooby and back on the topic of the thread, please. Thanks, ever so! mmhmm, Administrator and pillow seeker Found a pillow for you: |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 23:01:31 GMT -5
LOL!!!
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Post by steff on Sept 15, 2014 23:49:22 GMT -5
* Removed persuant to Chiver's request to drop the political side of the discussion. - mmhmm, Administrator not if i have anything to say about it. i like you just like you are, steff. thank you dj.  |
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 15, 2014 23:53:50 GMT -5
Gentlemen, let's get off the subject of Shooby and back on the topic of the thread, please. Thanks, ever so! mmhmm, Administrator and pillow seeker Found a pillow for you: Yanno, some people are just plain evil! Those are the ones under whose beds nasties with long teeth and bad intentions lurk. Don't look under there, though. It's better not to know in advance!  |
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 15, 2014 23:56:05 GMT -5
Ackshully, I love me some late night crowd (or, is that early morning crowd?)! You guys are such good fun! |
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Post by steff on Sept 16, 2014 0:01:03 GMT -5
Yanno, some people are just plain evil! Those are the ones under whose beds nasties with long teeth and bad intentions lurk. Don't look under there, though. It's better not to know in advance! My youngest brother & I are in a lifelong spider war. we both HATE them. I am SO buying this pillow for him for Xmas this year! I can totally win this entire year with it. Of course, I'll be on edge all next year waiting to be gotten back. |
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 16, 2014 0:05:44 GMT -5
Yanno, some people are just plain evil! Those are the ones under whose beds nasties with long teeth and bad intentions lurk. Don't look under there, though. It's better not to know in advance! My youngest brother & I are in a lifelong spider war. we both HATE them. I am SO buying this pillow for him for Xmas this year! I can totally win this entire year with it. Of course, I'll be on edge all next year waiting to be gotten back. LOL! I hate the darned things! Anything with that many legs just ain't right! My husband was assigned spider duty. Now, there's nobody but me to deal with 'em. Fortunately, I haven't seen any. This house is pretty much bug (and arachnid) free, thankfully. My daughter isn't afraid of them but in my son's home, my daughter-in-law is the spider killer. My son picked up my fear of them, poor guy. |
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 16, 2014 0:12:53 GMT -5
 quote]My youngest brother & I are in a lifelong spider war. we both HATE them. I am SO buying this pillow for him for Xmas this year! I can totally win this entire year with it. Of course, I'll be on edge all next year waiting to be gotten back. 
That's what I would do if it were one of my brothers.
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Post by steff on Sept 16, 2014 0:19:17 GMT -5
quote]My youngest brother & I are in a lifelong spider war. we both HATE them. I am SO buying this pillow for him for Xmas this year! I can totally win this entire year with it. Of course, I'll be on edge all next year waiting to be gotten back.
That's what I would do if it were one of my brothers. His last shot at me was using a Sharpie & drawing a little spider on a roll of tp....well into the roll...and then he rolled it back up. My feet got wet....he must now pay. and it's mom's fault. She made us stop torturing each other on FB where it was all nice and safe. |
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 16, 2014 0:19:21 GMT -5
I saw a mouse pad with a big, hairy, nasty-looking spider on it somewhere. I thought about giving it to my son but figured he'd probably end up killing me.  |
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 16, 2014 0:59:17 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 1:58:07 GMT -5
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 16, 2014 2:01:17 GMT -5
Cannot bring politics into the subject but a mod can just ramble on and on and on and on, and get off topic, and that is okie dokie.
Got it. |
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 16, 2014 2:04:34 GMT -5
Everything is politics. It is not my opinion, or my decision, but my observation. It wasn't me that brought up how men need to be reprogrammed to not be men- that was the solution proposed by some broad who clearly needs to be slapped on ESPN. Now that you have Rice beating his wife, and Peterson beating his child-- just wait, we're going to be into a full-fledged white liberal elite assault on the "culture of violence" in sports, and how it causes war, and perpetuates poverty, and that's when the liberal shakedown of the NFL will begin in earnest. You see, we need "funding", so we can reprogram men. The obvious racial overtones of the whole mess will be ignored because rich, white, liberal elites can say anything they want. Everything may be politics to you, paul, but everything is not politics to everyone. You can observe whatever you like. Your observations don't run my world, and they don't run the worlds of others. Chiver has told you to take your political rants out of Current Events or they'll be removed. I'd suggest you do so. I'm perfectly willing to help Chiver delete them. mmhmm, Administrator "You can observe whatever you like" Then in the next sentence he is told he can't.....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 2:12:22 GMT -5
Cannot bring politics into the subject but a mod can just ramble on and on and on and on, and get off topic, and that is okie dokie.
Got it. There's a specific sub-forum for politics. Rambling (if it's really that) happens wherever it happens. |
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