Ray Rice NFL Suspension Over Domestic Violence.

[Deleted]

Just out of curiosity... I wonder how much of her becoming unconscious can be attributed to her being inebriated. Drunk people become unconscious much easier than sober people.

[mmhmm]

OMG! 

[Deleted]

What? They were drunk... weren't they? Or have I mis-understood the reports that stated that they were?

ETA: If I am in error on this, I do sincerely apologize.

[mmhmm]

Sept 15, 2014 0:11:32 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Sept 14, 2014 22:23:20 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Hell to the no! If a woman clocks some poor guy in an elevator and drags him halfway out, then leaves him lying there, she should get the same damned treatment!

And if she just slaps him? He's bigger so he just has to take it?

I believe I've answered that question about 10 times. I'm really not in the mood to answer it again. Not to mention, that's anything but what happened in this case. If you're going to make a comparison, make an even comparison.

[Deleted]

I won't change my stance on "if attacked, one has the right to do what's necessary to stop the attack, regardless of the gender of the attacker"... but...

I looked at several different videos of the attack, some "cleaned up" to get the jumpiness out of it, others in slow-motion. And I'm no longer convinced that he didn't start the physical contact part of the confrontation.

So... all that basically means, my stance is unchanged on the general idea of self defense, but I'm no longer defending Ray Rice's actions as self defense. I'm no longer defending his actions in any way.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

No, Shaun - but if a man's a true man, he doesn't strike back. NOR should a woman.

This senseless incident wouldn't have even escalated to this point if the other person hadn't retaliated in kind. Even words spoken (although still WRONG) would have been better than doing something physical in return.

Once the elevator opened on the next floor either one could have walked out and away from the situation instead of continuing to push buttons.

I'm not saying EITHER is right - far from it - but it didn't have to go to this far - IF they'd both kept level heads instead of acting out on instant emotions.

Domestic violence, or any other similar attacks are usually started by someone acting immediately to a provocation instead of stepping away and removing themselves from pissing off the other person and making it go further than it already has.

[tallguy]

We don't know who or what started it.  We do know that both escalated it.  Both were wrong.

Any disagreement on that?

[mmhmm]

Sept 15, 2014 0:46:33 GMT -5 tallguy said:

We don't know who or what started it.  We do know that both escalated it.  Both were wrong.

Any disagreement on that?

If there is, I don't know what logic it would come from! Then again, I think logic has followed common sense into the giant black hole that holds all the lost, single socks from washing machines world-wide.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Sept 15, 2014 0:46:33 GMT -5 tallguy said:

We don't know who or what started it.  We do know that both escalated it.  Both were wrong.

Any disagreement on that?

None from me - I think I've already made that clear.

[tallguy]

If we get a few more to agree, this debate might get a lot less contentious....   

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2014 0:50:48 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 15, 2014 0:46:33 GMT -5 tallguy said:

We don't know who or what started it.  We do know that both escalated it.  Both were wrong.

Any disagreement on that?

If there is, I don't know what logic it would come from! Then again, I think logic has followed common sense into the giant black hole that holds all the lost, single socks from washing machines world-wide.

Well put.

[mmhmm]

Sept 15, 2014 0:57:29 GMT -5 tallguy said:

If we get a few more to agree, this debate might get a lot less contentious....   

If a few more would do their due diligence and put some effort into finding out all there is to learn before they bless us all with their opinion on the subject, I'm sure it would be a lot less contentious.

[mmhmm]

Sept 15, 2014 0:51:50 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Sept 15, 2014 0:46:33 GMT -5 tallguy said:

We don't know who or what started it.  We do know that both escalated it.  Both were wrong.

Any disagreement on that?

None from me - I think I've already made that clear.

It think most of us had, SL. Some of us had done so numerous times!

[tallguy]

If a few more would do their due diligence and put some effort into finding out all there is to learn before they bless us all with their opinion on the subject, I'm sure it would be a lot less contentious.

Yeah, but how much fun would that be...?

[mmhmm]

Sept 15, 2014 1:03:55 GMT -5 tallguy said:

If a few more would do their due diligence and put some effort into finding out all there is to learn before they bless us all with their opinion on the subject, I'm sure it would be a lot less contentious.

Yeah, but how much fun would that be...?

*groan* Yeah. Board wars are such scintillating entertainment. NOT! 

[tallguy]

Hey, hey, hey....  I don't moderate any more.  I don't worry about them....

[mmhmm]

Sept 15, 2014 1:12:09 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Hey, hey, hey....  I don't moderate any more.  I don't worry about them....

ROFL!  Sniveling coward! 

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2014 1:02:00 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 15, 2014 0:57:29 GMT -5 tallguy said:

If we get a few more to agree, this debate might get a lot less contentious....   

If a few more would do their due diligence and put some effort into finding out all there is to learn before they bless us all with their opinion on the subject, I'm sure it would be a lot less contentious.

I'm guessing that was pointed (more or less) at me... I'll take that hit.

I'm a big man, I can admit when I'm wrong. (I'm not wrong on "right to defend"... I was just wrong here, in this case, to defend Ray Rice, because it doesn't apply here).

[mmhmm]

Sept 15, 2014 1:16:35 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 15, 2014 1:02:00 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

If a few more would do their due diligence and put some effort into finding out all there is to learn before they bless us all with their opinion on the subject, I'm sure it would be a lot less contentious.

I'm guessing that was pointed (more or less) at me... I'll take that hit.

I'm a big man, I can admit when I'm wrong. (I'm not wrong on "right to defend"... I was just wrong here, in this case, to defend Ray Rice, because it doesn't apply here).

You aren't the only one here who failed to do due diligence, Richard. My remark wasn't targeting you, necessarily, and it doesn't only apply to this thread. We see it here way too often, IMO.

[Deleted]

I'll still take the hit.

[mmhmm]

Incidentally, the right to defense is a given as far as I'm concerned. Anyone has a right to defend him/herself. But each of us also has the responsibility to be sure we defend ourselves in a way that's commensurate with the degree of danger in which we find ourselves. That's part of keeping a cool head, thinking like an adult instead of a hormone-driven teen, and behaving accordingly. At least, that's my view on it. I don't need a sledge hammer to eliminate a fly.

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2014 1:21:29 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Incidentally, the right to defense is a given as far as I'm concerned. Anyone has a right to defend him/herself. But each of us also has the responsibility to be sure we defend ourselves in a way that's commensurate with the degree of danger in which we find ourselves. That's part of keeping a cool head, thinking like an adult instead of a hormone-driven teen, and behaving accordingly. At least, that's my view on it. I don't need a sledge hammer to eliminate a fly.

If no alcohol has been consumed... I'd agree with you. However, add alcohol into the mix and decisions/actions rarely are what one would consider cool and well thought out.

[mmhmm]

Sept 15, 2014 1:23:26 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 15, 2014 1:21:29 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Incidentally, the right to defense is a given as far as I'm concerned. Anyone has a right to defend him/herself. But each of us also has the responsibility to be sure we defend ourselves in a way that's commensurate with the degree of danger in which we find ourselves. That's part of keeping a cool head, thinking like an adult instead of a hormone-driven teen, and behaving accordingly. At least, that's my view on it. I don't need a sledge hammer to eliminate a fly.

If no alcohol has been consumed... I'd agree with you. However, add alcohol into the mix and decisions/actions rarely are what one would consider cool and well thought out.

Both were wrong from the beginning in that respect, as well.

As a side note to this ugly mess, the Panthers have deactivated Greg Hardy for a domestic violence charge and people are nipping at the 49er's heels to do something about Ray McDonald, who's also facing domestic violence charges. It's pretty ugly out there, apparently.

[tallguy]

I don't need a sledge hammer to eliminate a fly.

Perhaps, but I'll bet that if it ended up that you'd swallowed that fly, you'd regret not having used the sledgehammer....  Just sayin'    

[mmhmm]

Sept 15, 2014 1:32:14 GMT -5 tallguy said:

I don't need a sledge hammer to eliminate a fly.

Perhaps, but I'll bet that if it ended up that you'd swallowed that fly, you'd regret not having used the sledgehammer....  Just sayin'    

I gots a patented fly-killer! My Siamese is deadly accurate! 

[tallguy]

Hope so.  Because after the spider and the bird, you wouldn't have the cat either....

[mmhmm]

DO NOT say SPIDER in my presence. I'm not afraid of rampaging elephants or angry lions, but I'm terrified of spiders! 

[Deleted]

Is it o.k. to punch a spider unconscious if it's attacking you?

[tallguy]

I have to say spider.  It's in the rhyme.  Sorry.  

[steff]

Sept 15, 2014 1:26:59 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 15, 2014 1:23:26 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

If no alcohol has been consumed... I'd agree with you. However, add alcohol into the mix and decisions/actions rarely are what one would consider cool and well thought out.

Both were wrong from the beginning in that respect, as well.

As a side note to this ugly mess, the Panthers have deactivated Greg Hardy for a domestic violence charge and people are nipping at the 49er's heels to do something about Ray McDonald, who's also facing domestic violence charges. It's pretty ugly out there, apparently.

In regards to the Greg Hardy & Ray McDonald situations, Hardy has been convicted on his DV case & it was pretty bad.  the Panthers organization said something along the lines of because of the Ray Rice incident & the change in the NFL rules, they were deactivating Hardy for today.  Not cutting or firing and nothing about not playing next week.  It'll be interesting to see where they go with that thru the week. and remember the Panthers have BAD history with the whole Rae Carruth murder case.  The San Francisco 49'ers stated that since McDonald's case is still under investigation & there are no charges/no conviction he will be allowed to continue to play.  If he is charged, then they will "act accordingly". 

and seriously, I watch way too much football.  I knew all that from watching today & not having to look anything up.  lol