Economic Terrorism and the 2008 Crash

[safeharbor37]

Evidence outlined in a Pentagon contractor report suggests that financial subversion carried out by unknown parties, such as terrorists or hostile nations, contributed to the 2008 economic crash by covertly using vulnerabilities in the U.S. financial system.
Suspects include financial enemies in Middle Eastern states, Islamic terrorists, hostile members of the Chinese military, or government and organized crime groups in Russia, Venezuela or Iran. Chinese military officials publicly have suggested using economic warfare against the U.S
The report said that 30 percent to 70 percent of the decline in stock share values for two companies that were attacked, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, were results of failed trades from naked short-selling....
“This is the ‘end game’ if the goal is to destroy America,” [financial analyst Kevin D. Freeman]

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/28/financial-terrorism-suspected-in-08-economic-crash/
How 'bout them apples?

[Deleted]

Not surprising. We have been warned. I even heard that 9/11 was all about finances and destroying our economy, and not about something as simple as lost lives. Does this surprise anyone?

[safeharbor37]

The report warns that an attack on the American financial system could have taken place in two phases — and that a third phase may be ready to launch:....
Freeman pointed to the seizure of $134 billion in counterfeit US bonds as a potential clue as valuable as the Japanese intercepts prior to Pearl Harbor. His report calls the chain of events “the equivalent of box cutters on an airplane.” But does this theory hold water?....
The report is very useful in underscoring the potential vulnerabilities in our system, especially in relation to sovereign-wealth funds, and should get attention from policymakers in protecting the US from financial wars. However, just because something is possible doesn’t mean it happened. hotair.com/archives/2011/03/01/was-financial-meltdown-the-result-of-economic-terrorism/

Things tend to happen in ways that leads one to suspect that most things aren't coincidences. On the other hand, the appearance of conspiracy can be found almost anywhere.
This particular speculation does seem to correspond to both events in the recent past and worst case scenarios being projected elsewhere. I'm inclined to believe that if one is not true, neither is the other.

[privateinvestor]

Suspects include financial enemies in Middle Eastern states, Islamic terrorists, hostile members of the Chinese military, or government and organized crime groups in Russia, Venezuela or Iran. Chinese military officials publicly have suggested using economic warfare against the U.S


Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=4135#ixzz1FO3tVxAO


Does this now mean we will have another Congressional Investigation on this ?? I tend to be skeptical since reading this article which makes a lot of assumptions that may not be accurate.

[safeharbor37]

I tend to be skeptical since reading this article which makes a lot of assumptions that may not be accurate.

Me too. What I found interesting is that I'd been suspect of the events of 2008 preceding the Presidential Election as they were just too convenient ~ for some.
Now that the question of the US Dollar as the primary international currency is up in the air ~ well, again, it's just too convenient. It may very well be that the happenings are just inevitable consequences of decisions and actions in the [even not so recent] past ~ maybe both can be accurately ascribed simply to the March of History.
The "three phase" attack theory, if true, is so serious that I'm not inclined to ignore it simply because it may be based on "assumptions that may not be accurate." because the consequences would be so serious ~ if the assumptions are accurate.

[vonnie6200]

Mar 1, 2011 17:22:58 GMT -5 safeharbor37 said:

I tend to be skeptical since reading this article which makes a lot of assumptions that may not be accurate.

Me too. What I found interesting is that I'd been suspect of the events of 2008 preceding the Presidential Election as they were just too convenient ~ for some.
Now that the question of the US Dollar as the primary international currency is up in the air ~ well, again, it's just too convenient. It may very well be that the happenings are just inevitable consequences of decisions and actions in the [even not so recent] past ~ maybe both are accurately ascribed to simply the March of History.
The "three phase" attack theory, if true, is so serious that I'm not inclined to ignore it simply because it may be based on "assumptions that may not be accurate." because the consequences would be so serious ~ if the assumptions are accurate.

Holy cow - do you mean it wasn't G W Bush after all (sarcasm intended)

[privateinvestor]

I am sure that probably there were some Islamic Terrorists who tried to disrupt our Financial Markets in 2008 but for them to be responsible That seems to be a stretch from what I read about the derivatives trading of the housing bonds..

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Well, to exploit vulnerabilities, there have to BE vulnerabilities. Currently, the biggest vulnerability we face is our debt and deficit. Like housing policy, the government doesn't seem to want to do the right thing, and that has left us wide open.

[handyman2]

I told people 9/11 was a message to us that they were going to fight an economic war and cause confusion in the money supply. At that time people laughed at me. The twin towers were a symbol of Americas economic power and they wanted to show us that they could bring us down. Al-Quida took credit but I always believed it was far deeper than that.

[safeharbor37]

According to Freeman's new report, the attack has three stages, two of which may have already been implemented:

* The first phase was a speculative run-up in oil prices that generated as much as $2 trillion of excess wealth for oil-producing nations, filling the coffers ofSovereign Wealth Funds, especially those that follow Shariah Compliant Finance.
* The second phase appears to have begun in 2008 with a series of bear raids targeting U.S. financial services firms that appeared to be systemically significant [such as Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers]. This created a system-wide crisis, caused the collapse of the credit markets, and nearly collapsed the global financial system.
* The risk of a Phase Three has quickly emerged, suggesting a potential direct economic attack on the U.S. Treasury and U.S. dollar. Such an event has already been discussed by finance ministers in major emerging market nations such as China and Russia as well as Iran and the Arab states. A focused effort to collapse the dollar by dumping Treasury bonds has grave implications including the possibility of a downgrading of U.S. debt forcing rapidly rising interest rates and a collapse of the American economy. In short, a bear raid against the U.S. financial system remains possible and may even be likely. [Emphasis added]

www.nolanchart.com/article8406.html
"Pajamas Media has obtained a copy of the report and posted it online." www.scribd.com/doc/49755779/Economic-Warfare-Risks-and-Responses-by-Kevin-D-Freeman
www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/12/mike-huckabee-floats-theo_n_133930.html

"Islamic terrorism's future devices will focus on targets that will yield the most economic damage," said the study's author, Gabriel Weimann, a professor at the University of Haifa in Israel.

"For the jihadists, the present economic crisis signifies an ideal opportunity and platform to leverage an economic terrorist campaign," said Weimann, who scrutinized 7,000 radical Islamic Web sites and forums over 11 years. He traced the focus on economic terrorism to the Sept. 11, 2001, attack on the World Trade Center in New York. Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, the professor noted, has said on videotapes the attack cost $500,000 and inflicted $500 billion in U.S economic damage.

Read more: www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/03/02/Jihadists-turning-to-economic-terrorism/UPI-97581267548984/#ixzz1FT0FKsWp


Read more: www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/03/02/Jihadists-turning-to-economic-terrorism/UPI-97581267548984/#ixzz1FSzlzfB7
www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/03/02/Jihadists-turning-to-economic-terrorism/UPI-97581267548984/

[safeharbor37]

March 2, 2011

A gunman fired at U.S. Air Force personnel on a bus outside Frankfurt airport Wednesday, killing two airmen and wounding two others before being taken into custody, an Air Force spokesman in Germany said.

Air Force spokeswoman Maj. Beverly Mock said she could not release any further details on the victims until their next of kin have been notified.

Kosovo's interior minister told The Associated Press that German police have identified the gunman as a citizen of Kosovo.

President Obama told reporters he was "outraged" by the incident, adding it provided a "stark reminder" of the "sacrifices" made by U.S. military personnel.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel condemned the "terrible incident."

"We'll do everything possible to find out what happened," she said.

The attack came as the bus sat outside Terminal 2 at the airport, Frankfurt police spokesman Manfred Fuellhardt said. www.npr.org/2011/03/02/134195467/two-killed-in-attack-on-bus-carrying-u-s-military?ps=cprs

Not economic terrorism, but terrorism nevertheless. Isn't Kosovo one of those countries we "liberated"?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

This was my favorite....

Paul Bracken, a Yale University professor who has studied economic warfare, said he saw “no convincing evidence that ‘outside forces’ colluded to bring about the 2008 crisis.”

“There were outside players in the market” for unregulated credit default swaps, Mr. Bracken said in an e-mail. “Foreign banks and hedge funds play the shorts all the time too. But suggestions of an organized targeted attack for strategic reasons don’t seem to me to be plausible.”

Yeah, and I suppose at one time the thought that a handful of Arab / muslim men in flight schools in Arizona might be plotting to hijack full sized jet liners and crash one of them into America's financial center didn't seem plausible, either.

You know at some point, Yale might consider preserving it's credibility and firing this guy. At some point, institutions everywhere are going to have to start firing who are too stupid to serve. I'm surprised this idiot can remember to breathe-- and it's truly frightening to me that this is the mentality of ANYONE, but sadly his point of view prevails in virtually ever institution in American society, and probably even at the Pentagon.

I'm not for bailouts or government programs, but I'd be willing to invest $1 trillion tax payer dollars to "retire" people like this wheverever they can be found. Just, when you run across them, offer them a million dollars tax free to resign and agree to retire forever.

[safeharbor37]

The “no convincing evidence" argument is not an argument at all, but some seem to find it a convincing argument. If there was "convincing evidence," I'd think someone would be in jail or at least on the run. I think we're in a situation where "probable cause" should be more than adequate to continue an investigation.
This "study" will probably end up like the "Obama Commission" recommendations ~ that is; only noted after the ship hits the sand and it's too late to do anything. Remember 9/11? Proactive doesn't seem to be an option, it's always react after the fact.
On the other hand maybe it's all coincidence and we'll die of something else. But what I suspect is that no one want to look into this because they are afraid of what they might find.

[billisonboard]

Mar 2, 2011 14:01:26 GMT -5 safeharbor37 said:

March 2, 2011

A gunman fired at U.S. Air Force personnel on a bus outside Frankfurt airport Wednesday, killing two airmen and wounding two others before being taken into custody, an Air Force spokesman in Germany said.

...

Not economic terrorism, but terrorism nevertheless. ...

Any evidence that the motivation for the attack was to create a sense of terror?

[Loopdilou]

LOL! I love when all the conspiracy theorists get together on one thread and spout crazy

[safeharbor37]

Any evidence that the motivation for the attack was to create a sense of terror?

Of course not & Timothy McVeigh was just pissed off at the ATF. Until we find a way to read thoughts we'll never really be sure what motives drive behavior ~ and maybe not then.
The definition of terrorism I'm using here is the "war on terrorism" definition; radical Islam vs. the West. I had thought that was obvious to everyone. Apparently not.

[billisonboard]

Mar 2, 2011 18:27:09 GMT -5 safeharbor37 said:

Any evidence that the motivation for the attack was to create a sense of terror?

Of course not & Timothy McVeigh was just pissed off at the ATF. Until we find a way to read thoughts we'll never really be sure what motives drive behavior ~ and maybe not then....

Might not be sure what motives it but if the dead guy was nailing the killer's girlfriend you just might kinda have an idea.

Mar 2, 2011 18:27:09 GMT -5 safeharbor37 said:

Any evidence that the motivation for the attack was to create a sense of terror?

...The definition of terrorism I'm using here is the "war on terrorism" definition; radical Islam vs. the West. I had thought that was obvious to everyone. Apparently not.

...a member of the U.S. House Homeland Security Committee, Rep. Patrick Meehan (R-PA), said in Washington that it looked like a terrorist attack.
The chairman of the subcommittee that focuses on terrorism and intelligence added that he did not have all the facts about the shooting yet and was still being briefed by his staff. (from link in the OP).

"Don't have all the facts but talking straight out my ...., "


Not every killing of anyone by a person who is an adherent to Radical Islam is "terrorism" IM(not so)HO. Attacks on our military forces is an example which I don't believe qualifies as such.

[safeharbor37]

....if the dead guy was nailing the killer's girlfriend....

If that was the motive it would seem overkill to kill another and wound two more. Americans were targeted. American servicemen were targeted. It does not seem to be a random shooting ~ although, as you would point out, the alleged shooter hasn't been convicted yet.

"Don't have all the facts but talking straight out my ...., "

I assume you're speaking for yourself.

[billisonboard]

Mar 2, 2011 19:39:12 GMT -5 safeharbor37 said:

...

"Don't have all the facts but talking straight out my ...., "

I assume you're speaking for yourself.

I'm not the one who announced it terrorism without evidence, so no I'm not.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 2, 2011 18:06:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 2, 2011 14:01:26 GMT -5 safeharbor37 said:

March 2, 2011

A gunman fired at U.S. Air Force personnel on a bus outside Frankfurt airport Wednesday, killing two airmen and wounding two others before being taken into custody, an Air Force spokesman in Germany said.

...

Not economic terrorism, but terrorism nevertheless. ...

Any evidence that the motivation for the attack was to create a sense of terror?

Yes. The attacker was a muslim.

Until we can simply be honest about the fact that when a muslim commits an act of violence, particularly against westerners who are members of the military, then the first conclusion we should draw- until it can be ruled out- is that it is part of a pattern of radical muslim violence.

Failure to take this seriously is how we missed Major Hissan's (SP?) homocidal tendancies.

Sorry, but we don't live in a world where we can assume that muslim violence against westerners happens in a vacuum.

Maybe he wasn't motivated by radical islam, but we are fools if we start with the conclusion it was random. We need to wise up and begin operating on the assumption that muslims who commit acts of violence against westerners / military are acting on radical islamist ideology.

[billisonboard]

Mar 3, 2011 13:08:42 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 2, 2011 18:06:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Any evidence that the motivation for the attack was to create a sense of terror?

Yes. The attacker was a muslim.

...

It seems like some good evidence has been reported that it was a most likely a "jihadist" attack. Not all such attacks are "terrorist" attacks.

[safeharbor37]

....it was a most likely a "jihadist" attack. Not all such attacks are "terrorist" attacks.

A distinction without a difference.

[billisonboard]

Mar 3, 2011 13:08:42 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 2, 2011 18:06:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

...
Maybe he wasn't motivated by radical islam, but we are fools if we start with the conclusion it was random. We need to wise up and begin operating on the assumption that muslims who commit acts of violence against westerners / military are acting on radical islamist ideology.

We are fools if we "start" with any "conclusion". I say we are equally "fools" if we "begin operating on (any) assumption". We need to operate on evidence.

[billisonboard]

Mar 3, 2011 14:21:36 GMT -5 safeharbor37 said:

....it was a most likely a "jihadist" attack. Not all such attacks are "terrorist" attacks.

A distinction without a difference.

I disagree.

[handyman2]

Tough Times that is the best suggestion of the day.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I second handyman2's comment and exalt thee. ;D

[pappyjohn99]

Have some Karma with your ammo Tough!!!

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...what a warm and fuzzy, feel-good thread... ;D


...imo, all the "death to the Great Satan" propaganda should have been an easy tip off to the west that if we carry our jugular vein in our wallet pocket, we better keep watch on the bank...