The Free Market Finds A Way To Prevent Rape...

[Green Eyed Lady]

Sept 3, 2014 22:02:31 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

I'm mad now! I specifically posted that to point out that rape is about power and control and that while legalizing prostitution might stop some rapes it would not stop them all, nor would any law.  Reread it and think- I am highly offended by your accusation.

Well?  I guess we'll both just have to mad then. 

[haapai]

Sept 3, 2014 20:55:53 GMT -5 oped said:

I think most of us agree. If it helps protect and is safe, let's use it. 

But look at the OP ... Read "The free market finds a way to prevent rape"... 

So, the focus, the 'solution' is for women to do something, the cure, the prevention is a free market consumer good, and it's a woman's responsibility to use it to prevent assault... ??

I seem to remember a similar argument being used to convince me that I needed a car-mounted phone back in 1991. 

The phone in question had pretty steep monthly charges and per-minute charges of about half the minimum hourly wage at a time that I wasn't earning much more.  I could never have afforded to answer such a phone, and I'd also have been pretty stingy about ever placing a call from such a device.  Yet there were still a fair number of folks who hinted that I was being reckless and irresponsible by not buying such a thing.

I don't remember what I told them to do with their female tax. 

[EVT1]

Sept 3, 2014 22:08:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Sept 3, 2014 22:02:31 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

I'm mad now! I specifically posted that to point out that rape is about power and control and that while legalizing prostitution might stop some rapes it would not stop them all, nor would any law.  Reread it and think- I am highly offended by your accusation.

Well?  I guess we'll both just have to mad then. 

Mad about what? You disparaged my post and attributed a load of bullshit to me- I did nothing to you- so no- we do not agree to be mad- you admit you assumed a lot of bullshit about me or you do not. What do I care? My whole point here is to discuss politics so I don't have to discuss it with people I care about- but if you think for a damn second you know my views on rape and think you can broadcast it as fact while you know jack shit about me and I will sit by- not going to happen. 

[whoisjohngalt]

Sept 3, 2014 17:23:37 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Look, DDs water was spiked at a country western bar. Fortunately she and her friends had just arrived. She was always the designated driver. The girls took her home and she was "out" for two days. That bar was known for being a safe place for women. I've been there myself. It happens.

holy crap

[whoisjohngalt]

Sept 3, 2014 18:46:11 GMT -5 engineerdoe said:

The real issue is that young women across our nation have attended orientation seminars at college about how to protect themselves from date rape but there are no corresponding seminars for the young men telling them not to rape young women.

If those young men need a seminar telling them not to rape.......we have much bigger problems than I thought

[dondub]

 My GF back in the day that was raped....a ladder against a building, a broken door window on a small balcony, and a guy sitting on her bed holding her down. No free market nail polish or even a gun at 3am would have prevented anything as she was asleep and then she wasn't.

 Then there was another who had been raped repeatedly by her father. She was supposed to buy a gun at age 13?

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2014 20:50:30 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 3, 2014 20:44:11 GMT -5 oped said:

I don't think anyone is 'up in arms' that there is something out there to help protect women. 

I think the issue is with the idea that it's a woman's responsibility to prevent rape.... 

Why do we always have to weed out rapes when we are talking about keeping ourselves safe? I tell my daughter that there are certain areas she is not allowed to go to. This is a free country and she should be allowed to go there. But there are gang bangers living in those areas (or wannabees). It is her job to keep herself out of situations that can get herself killed, raped or hurt. No, she can't prevent everything but there is also no reason to so something stupid...like putting your drink down in a bar, walking into the ghetto at 3 am, getting into a car with someone that has been drinking, etx

Because rape is so often blamed on the victim for either encouraging it or not avoiding it. The victims in those other scenarios are still treated like victims. People that have been raped often are not.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2014 22:34:16 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Sept 3, 2014 18:46:11 GMT -5 engineerdoe said:

The real issue is that young women across our nation have attended orientation seminars at college about how to protect themselves from date rape but there are no corresponding seminars for the young men telling them not to rape young women.

If those young men need a seminar telling them not to rape.......we have much bigger problems than I thought

We do have a bigger problem than you think.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 4, 2014 8:24:50 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Sept 3, 2014 22:34:16 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

If those young men need a seminar telling them not to rape.......we have much bigger problems than I thought

We do have a bigger problem than you think.

55 Colleges Named in Federal Inquiry Into Handling of Sexual Assault Cases

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 4, 2014 8:23:29 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Sept 3, 2014 20:50:30 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Why do we always have to weed out rapes when we are talking about keeping ourselves safe? I tell my daughter that there are certain areas she is not allowed to go to. This is a free country and she should be allowed to go there. But there are gang bangers living in those areas (or wannabees). It is her job to keep herself out of situations that can get herself killed, raped or hurt. No, she can't prevent everything but there is also no reason to so something stupid...like putting your drink down in a bar, walking into the ghetto at 3 am, getting into a car with someone that has been drinking, etx

Because rape is so often blamed on the victim for either encouraging it or not avoiding it. The victims in those other scenarios are still treated like victims. People that have been raped often are not.

I disagree. Just like in this thread, there are people all upset because anyone would dare ask a woman to be proactive in keeping herself safe. There are jerks/psychos out there who have no purpose in life other than to hurt woman. Yes, that person owns the responsibility for actually committing the act but I also own responsibility for keeping myself as safe as I can. For that reason I would never accept a drink from a stranger in a bar that doesn't come from the bartender, never get into a car with someone I don't know, I avoid walking in deserted areas late at night...and so on and so on.

 My personal safety is my responsibility and I take it very seriously. No, I can't prevent all risk of crime (some crazy can break into my house and get to me or my kids before my husband can get to the gun) but by taking small precautions I can lessen my chance of becoming a victim.  And I have no idea why other women get so up in arms when someone says that...is it better to say we are all helpless and can't do a damn thing to prevent the big, strong men from hurting us?  Because that seems to go against the feminist mantra more so than what I'm saying. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

I think some feel that advocating precautions implies that if one doesn't take those precautions, they are partially at fault for what happens to them.  That simply isn't true, IMO. 

I just crossed a busy street.  I waited until I had my "walk" light.  I then looked both ways because people don't always do the right thing.  I SHOULD be able to cross with the light without fear of injury, but the fact is that people don't always do the right thing.  So?  I looked both ways.  But that doesn't mean that if I failed to look both ways, it would be partially my fault if I got hit.

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 4, 2014 11:15:11 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I think some feel that advocating precautions implies that if one doesn't take those precautions, they are partially at fault for what happens to them.  That simply isn't true, IMO. 

I just crossed a busy street.  I waited until I had my "walk" light.  I then looked both ways because people don't always do the right thing.  I SHOULD be able to cross with the light without fear of injury, but the fact is that people don't always do the right thing.  So?  I looked both ways.  But that doesn't mean that if I failed to look both ways, it would be partially my fault if I got hit.

BINGO! At the end of the day, I want to keep myself as safe as possible. no, it isn't right that I can't walk into the ghetto at 2am without fearing for my life, but that is reality. I should be able to trust some guy that hands me a drink at a bar, but that isn't reality. Reality is that gangbangers like to shoot for no reason and perverts look for unsuspecting women to slip a roofie to and rape her. I keep my ass out of the ghetto at 2am (well, I actually stay away from bad areas during the day, as much as possible) and I never accept a drink handed to me by anyone other than a bartender.  I can't stop everyone from hurting me but I sure as hell don't have to make it easy for them.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 4, 2014 11:40:05 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 4, 2014 11:15:11 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I think some feel that advocating precautions implies that if one doesn't take those precautions, they are partially at fault for what happens to them.  That simply isn't true, IMO. 

I just crossed a busy street.  I waited until I had my "walk" light.  I then looked both ways because people don't always do the right thing.  I SHOULD be able to cross with the light without fear of injury, but the fact is that people don't always do the right thing.  So?  I looked both ways.  But that doesn't mean that if I failed to look both ways, it would be partially my fault if I got hit.

BINGO! At the end of the day, I want to keep myself as safe as possible. no, it isn't right that I can't walk into the ghetto at 2am without fearing for my life, but that is reality. I should be able to trust some guy that hands me a drink at a bar, but that isn't reality. Reality is that gangbangers like to shoot for no reason and perverts look for unsuspecting women to slip a roofie to and rape her. I keep my ass out of the ghetto at 2am (well, I actually stay away from bad areas during the day, as much as possible) and I never accept a drink handed to me by anyone other than a bartender.  I can't stop everyone from hurting me but I sure as hell don't have to make it easy for them.

You have now used "ghetto" 3 or 4 times now. In your next post, can you substitute "ghetto" with 'rough neighborhood' or 'rough area' please. Thanks!

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 4, 2014 11:56:00 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 4, 2014 11:40:05 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

BINGO! At the end of the day, I want to keep myself as safe as possible. no, it isn't right that I can't walk into the ghetto at 2am without fearing for my life, but that is reality. I should be able to trust some guy that hands me a drink at a bar, but that isn't reality. Reality is that gangbangers like to shoot for no reason and perverts look for unsuspecting women to slip a roofie to and rape her. I keep my ass out of the ghetto at 2am (well, I actually stay away from bad areas during the day, as much as possible) and I never accept a drink handed to me by anyone other than a bartender.  I can't stop everyone from hurting me but I sure as hell don't have to make it easy for them.

You have now used "ghetto" 3 or 4 times now. In your next post, can you substitute "ghetto" with 'rough neighborhood' or 'rough area' please. Thanks!

LOL...I like to drive home a point! But at least you aren't disagreeing with my thinking....just the words I use

[Tennesseer]

Sept 4, 2014 11:57:14 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 4, 2014 11:56:00 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

You have now used "ghetto" 3 or 4 times now. In your next post, can you substitute "ghetto" with 'rough neighborhood' or 'rough area' please. Thanks!

LOL...I like to drive home a point! But at least you aren't disagreeing with my thinking....just the words I use

Correct and thanks!

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 4, 2014 11:58:38 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 4, 2014 11:57:14 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

LOL...I like to drive home a point! But at least you aren't disagreeing with my thinking....just the words I use

Correct and thanks!

No problem

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2014 10:47:33 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 4, 2014 8:23:29 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Because rape is so often blamed on the victim for either encouraging it or not avoiding it. The victims in those other scenarios are still treated like victims. People that have been raped often are not.

I disagree. Just like in this thread, there are people all upset because anyone would dare ask a woman to be proactive in keeping herself safe. There are jerks/psychos out there who have no purpose in life other than to hurt woman. Yes, that person owns the responsibility for actually committing the act but I also own responsibility for keeping myself as safe as I can. For that reason I would never accept a drink from a stranger in a bar that doesn't come from the bartender, never get into a car with someone I don't know, I avoid walking in deserted areas late at night...and so on and so on.

 My personal safety is my responsibility and I take it very seriously. No, I can't prevent all risk of crime (some crazy can break into my house and get to me or my kids before my husband can get to the gun) but by taking small precautions I can lessen my chance of becoming a victim.  And I have no idea why other women get so up in arms when someone says that...is it better to say we are all helpless and can't do a damn thing to prevent the big, strong men from hurting us?  Because that seems to go against the feminist mantra more so than what I'm saying. 

Then pay attention to what I am saying. I am a feminist. I agree that it is good to have tools to keep ourselves safe from psychos. But we should not end the discussion about rape there. Not everyone views rape as a crime or a problem. It happens a lot on college campuses and part of the reason for that is that too many young men do not understand that society views non consensual sex as a crime. These same young men are probably tempted to damage school property, cheat on tests etc. But they don't do those things because they understand they won't get away with it. They do get away with rape. So this feminist is saying great! I'm glad we have this nail polish. But I don't expect it to be the solution. We still need better policies, procedures and safety measures for our young women at bars, on school campuses etc.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 3, 2014 22:00:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 3, 2014 20:32:00 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

The free market already has a better way to prevent rape.

My wife calls hers her "rape whistle".

So she's supposed to carry at all times, even in places that say "no guns allowed?" 

I admit I'm old and don't hang out at bars or go to concerts much but when I did, they did weapons checks going in. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 3, 2014 22:34:16 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Sept 3, 2014 18:46:11 GMT -5 engineerdoe said:

The real issue is that young women across our nation have attended orientation seminars at college about how to protect themselves from date rape but there are no corresponding seminars for the young men telling them not to rape young women.

If those young men need a seminar telling them not to rape.......we have much bigger problems than I thought

I thought colleges were including stuff on No means No and Stops means Stop in the student welcoming stuff. 

[zibazinski]

Well, the bar where DDs water bottle was spiked runs a camera. The ID checkers/bouncers who also make sure girls get to their cars unbothered and that they aren't too drunk to drive, take that shit as seriously as the owners do. This place is known for being a safe place for young women to dance and drink and they don't want to lose that reputation. She called as soon as she was able to but they only keep film for so long. They now keep it longer realizing it takes more time for the effects to wear off. But the owner himself came to talk to her about what happened. 

[Angel!]

Sept 3, 2014 21:59:13 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 3, 2014 20:50:30 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Why do we always have to weed out rapes when we are talking about keeping ourselves safe? I tell my daughter that there are certain areas she is not allowed to go to. This is a free country and she should be allowed to go there. But there are gang bangers living in those areas (or wannabees). It is her job to keep herself out of situations that can get herself killed, raped or hurt. No, she can't prevent everything but there is also no reason to so something stupid...like putting your drink down in a bar, walking into the ghetto at 3 am, getting into a car with someone that has been drinking, etx

I posted something similar awhile back and the usual suspects went apeshit.

It isn't always what you say, but sometimes how you say it.  You tend to say things in a way that is offensive. 

Like in the OP where you suggested women just avoid situations altogether where such nail polish might be useful.  Women can't go to bars, parties, concerts, etc?  Sounds a little ridiculous IMO & statements like that are why you get jumped on.

[sesfw]

Zib, I'm sorry that happened to your DD. Hopefully she OK ... or at least better now. What a horrible thing to happen.

I'm glad to see that nail polish. If this was a perfect world it wouldn't be needed. However this is reality and man/boys don't have a clue.

[zibazinski]

It's been a few years but she's more careful now. Plus, she doesn't go to bars anymore. But the point is she SHOULD be able to without fear. This shit pisses me off. Those guys that do this ought to have the shit kicked out of them and more. 

[zibazinski]

On the plus side, if anyone is ever caught doing this, they will get the shit kicked out of them as that bar doesn't think much of drugging women.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 4, 2014 12:21:59 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Sept 3, 2014 21:59:13 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I posted something similar awhile back and the usual suspects went apeshit.

It isn't always what you say, but sometimes how you say it.  You tend to say things in a way that is offensive. 

Like in the OP where you suggested women just avoid situations altogether where such nail polish might be useful.  Women can't go to bars, parties, concerts, etc?  Sounds a little ridiculous IMO & statements like that are why you get jumped on.

Well, perhaps I just don't realize how widespread the problem is?  However, what occurred to me is that if I were in a woman's shoes and thinking I might be going somewhere where a date rape drug might be slipped into my drink, I might think twice about that.  That's all.  

Part of my problem is that I'm in the insurance industry, and even though I'm an adjuster, I'm hard-wired like an underwriter.  That, AND I'm an entrepreneur and investor.  I think in terms of risk vs. reward and I translate it to most of the rest of life.  I don't smoke- even though when I have tried it, I really enjoyed it- because there are not enough rewards from smoking to outweigh the risks.  So, when I think about this I'm not thinking in terms of the "fun" that I would expect a woman to miss out on; nor am I commenting on whether or not it's a wonderful thing to live in a society where a woman even has to think about the fact that if she goes out she might be raped- obviously- not good things.  I'm ONLY commenting on the risk vs. the rewards and whether or not in her shoes *I* would take that risk if I thought it was even necessary to use this product.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 4, 2014 12:09:50 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Sept 3, 2014 22:00:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

My wife calls hers her "rape whistle".

So she's supposed to carry at all times, even in places that say "no guns allowed?" 

I admit I'm old and don't hang out at bars or go to concerts much but when I did, they did weapons checks going in. 

We go to Jimmy every year- usually up in Chicago.  But other than that- we're not big bar / concert people.  I obey LAWS, not requests.  If I'm permitted to carry, I carry.  The operative term is concealed- so, I make a habit of not seeing signage that does not carry the force of law with respect to people not wanting me to carry a weapon.  And I don't go many places where they're going to frisk me. So far, Chipotle hasn't patted me down.

[zibazinski]

DD was/is aware and knew the rule about never leaving a drink. Trouble was she didn't think about a water bottle. It just takes a second to not think. 

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2014 13:40:23 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 4, 2014 12:21:59 GMT -5 Angel! said:

It isn't always what you say, but sometimes how you say it.  You tend to say things in a way that is offensive. 

Like in the OP where you suggested women just avoid situations altogether where such nail polish might be useful.  Women can't go to bars, parties, concerts, etc?  Sounds a little ridiculous IMO & statements like that are why you get jumped on.

Well, perhaps I just don't realize how widespread the problem is?  However, what occurred to me is that if I were in a woman's shoes and thinking I might be going somewhere where a date rape drug might be slipped into my drink, I might think twice about that.  That's all.  

Part of my problem is that I'm in the insurance industry, and even though I'm an adjuster, I'm hard-wired like an underwriter.  That, AND I'm an entrepreneur and investor.  I think in terms of risk vs. reward and I translate it to most of the rest of life.  I don't smoke- even though when I have tried it, I really enjoyed it- because there are not enough rewards from smoking to outweigh the risks.  So, when I think about this I'm not thinking in terms of the "fun" that I would expect a woman to miss out on; nor am I commenting on whether or not it's a wonderful thing to live in a society where a woman even has to think about the fact that if she goes out she might be raped- obviously- not good things.  I'm ONLY commenting on the risk vs. the rewards and whether or not in her shoes *I* would take that risk if I thought it was even necessary to use this product.

Unfortunately rape happens a lot in the military and on college campuses. Are you suggesting women don't go to school or sign up for service?

[Angel!]

Sept 4, 2014 13:40:23 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 4, 2014 12:21:59 GMT -5 Angel! said:

It isn't always what you say, but sometimes how you say it.  You tend to say things in a way that is offensive. 

Like in the OP where you suggested women just avoid situations altogether where such nail polish might be useful.  Women can't go to bars, parties, concerts, etc?  Sounds a little ridiculous IMO & statements like that are why you get jumped on.

Well, perhaps I just don't realize how widespread the problem is?  However, what occurred to me is that if I were in a woman's shoes and thinking I might be going somewhere where a date rape drug might be slipped into my drink, I might think twice about that.  That's all.  

Part of my problem is that I'm in the insurance industry, and even though I'm an adjuster, I'm hard-wired like an underwriter.  That, AND I'm an entrepreneur and investor.  I think in terms of risk vs. reward and I translate it to most of the rest of life.  I don't smoke- even though when I have tried it, I really enjoyed it- because there are not enough rewards from smoking to outweigh the risks.  So, when I think about this I'm not thinking in terms of the "fun" that I would expect a woman to miss out on; nor am I commenting on whether or not it's a wonderful thing to live in a society where a woman even has to think about the fact that if she goes out she might be raped- obviously- not good things.  I'm ONLY commenting on the risk vs. the rewards and whether or not in her shoes *I* would take that risk if I thought it was even necessary to use this product.

Almost anywhere you could get slipped the drug. Some places are far more likely than others, but to 100% protect yourself you basically should never go out. Really anyplace you have a drink (even just water), something could get slipped into it. 

This is where some women get really upset over the rape culture & blaming.  Suggesting a woman not go out as a way to prevent rape really puts it on the woman.  There becomes this idea that somehow the woman did something wrong.  She shouldn't have gone to that party, she shouldn't have worn that dress, she shouldn't have had anything to drink, etc, etc.  There is literally always something the woman could have done different, but it is hurtful to suggest after the fact & comes across as victim blaming.

I think some people take this idea way, way too far in an effort to protect woman from victim blaming.  They suggest we never teach any skills to protect ourselves because the minute we suggest we need to protect ourselves, we are blaming the victim.  I find that stupid, maybe great in an ideal world, but I live in the real world.  I will teach my daughter not to go to a frat party alone, I will teach her not to take a drink from a guy she doesn't know, teach her to watch her drink in party situations, if this nail polish is available then I would buy her some.  That doesn't guarantee she will never be raped and certainly doesn't make her to blame if she gets raped.  But, it is smart in the real world to watch out for yourself. 

We have to find balance between protecting ourselves & ensuring we don't make women feel worse than they already do if they are raped. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

think some people take this idea way, way too far in an effort to protect woman from victim blaming. They suggest we never teach any skills to protect ourselves because the minute we suggest we need to protect ourselves, we are blaming the victim. . . We have to find balance between protecting ourselves & ensuring we don't make women feel worse than they already do if they are raped. .

I was just saying that to a friend yesterday after reading the thread on YM about the celebrity nude photos. 

I'd totally buy my daughters this nail polish.