Gaps in Evolution and Natural Selection Filled With I.D.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Oct 28, 2014 22:24:14 GMT -5 Shooby said:

If you woke up in your bedroom tomorrow never having existed , you would look around you bedroom. You would see a dresser , mirror, door frame closet
. It would be evident that these things were purposefully and intelligently created. Same thing with the smoking gun of Creation that some people simply choose not to see. The hand of God is self evident.

It really is that simple, isn't it shooby? Everything man made has to be designed and created.(SL just demonstrated that point nicely. She even got the relativity point in there about how as our intelligence evolved so have our creations)

Yet we are stupid/don't get evolution because we don't see the logical sense in complex organisms like DNA, microbes, viruses, etc - just magically appearing, and by nothing but random chance, end up working together in a system that sustains complex life forms far superior to anything man has ever made. I luv chemistry.

[Shooby]

Oct 28, 2014 23:29:12 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Oct 28, 2014 22:24:14 GMT -5 Shooby said:

If you woke up in your bedroom tomorrow never having existed , you would look around you bedroom. You would see a dresser , mirror, door frame closet
. It would be evident that these things were purposefully and intelligently created. Same thing with the smoking gun of Creation that some people simply choose not to see. The hand of God is self evident.

That makes no sense.

You wouldn't wake up ANYWHERE if you never existed. How could that even be remotely possible? If you never existed, you never were.

I find a real easy way to look at evolution is with relativity. A monkey couldn't have designed a car - or any of the mechanical creations that humans have designed, it takes intelligence to do that. A monkey couldn't have sculpted the Statue of David or painted the Sistine Chapel, it takes intelligence to do that.

But evolution is the development (over millenniums) of certain species of apes evolving into humans. No, there weren't any sculpted statues, or a painted ceiling in a chapel, or high-rise structures, or other inventions (electricity, the combustion engine, etc), because 1,000,000 or 100,000 years ago, we had not evolved or grown in our knowledge and intelligence to where we are today.

Look at the intricate structures in ancient Egypt or Greece. The Great Pyramids for example, are structurally intricate in their geometric perfection.

The Acropolis or Coliseum in Greece (almost perfectly round) or other ancient structures (the Mayan Ruins).

Stonehenge in Scotland is another wonder of the world. Those structures were designed and created by humans. All built many centuries ago.

There was the Stone Age and the Iron Age.

Henry Ford creating the motor car. Now we're in the Electronic Age - and even something like the TV you watch CSI on, has evolved in the last 5 or 6 yrs.

God didn't make that happen. It's research, development and experimentation (and intelligence) which creates what we have today - and what will be tomorrow.

It all started with a spark that created fire - which was ignited by man.

I can only imagine what we (as humans) will create in the future.


.

Ut isn't possible? Lol. But yet you are willing to believe that NOTHING somehow created everything. Absurd.

I could stare at ny dining room chair for the next 1000000000000 years. Non life does nit beget life. Life came from where it could ONLY come from. The Living Creator.

And

[Shooby]

Um you never existed prior to 40+ yrs ago did you?

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Ever hear of the "Big Bang"? We all evolved from minuscule organisms that formed first in a body of water (firstly ice) - which once covered the majority of the earth's surface.

news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/09.17/EarthWasComplet.html

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I could stare at ny dining room chair for the next 1000000000000 years. Non life does nit beget life. Life came from where it could ONLY come from. The Living Creator.

That's as absurd as your first statement where you said having woken up tomorrow having never existed. If you never existed to begin with, you never woke up.

And how could you stare at your dining room chair for the next 10000000000 years? You never WERE. And no human has lived past 100 yrs, except a rare few.

Your argument makes no sense. I've had more intelligent debates with my 16 yr old nephew.

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2014 22:24:14 GMT -5 Shooby said:

If you woke up in your bedroom tomorrow never having existed , you would look around you bedroom. You would see a dresser , mirror, door frame closet
. It would be evident that these things were purposefully and intelligently created. Same thing with the smoking gun of Creation that some people simply choose not to see. The hand of God is self evident.

This is what led earlier cultures to believe the Gods were controlling the lightning and thunder and winds and rains.... 

I

[uncle23]

.....


....I wake up and behold the wonders all around me ... I see people creating wonderful things....I see the sun the moon  and stars and lightning and hear the thunder...

then I see three wise men...

one wise man said...." Someone created all these...I'll call him God. "

2nd wise man said..".no all these came from nothing and I can prove it." Then , proceeded to explain that by using careful observation and scientific method everything evolved from simple to complex and called it evolution.

Then the 1st wise man, using the same careful observation plus mathematics and philosophy declared that all these wonderful things must have been by intelligent design.

Then the endless arguments started.

The 3rd wise man said..." I don't care....I'll just enjoy these awesome sights. enchanting sounds, delightful tastes and smell.."

I said to myself....I like the 1st wise man...........

p.s. 11/01/14......I do not dislike 2nd wise man....its just that if he proves correct....it would make me feel unloved ....

[ktunes]

for all you mathematicians out there...what are the odds that you could have a huge cosmic blast, the big bang event, and have the results be only one single planet with just the right tilt of axis, atmospheric conditions, etc. that would support life...

without some kind of design that is...

i bet the odds are better that you could set off some c4 in a newspaper production line and have the results be a fully assembled collegiate dictionary...maybe i should buy a lottery ticket...

another thing that bothers me about evolution is the fact that humans are the top of the food chain, right...most advanced, intelligent of all other species on earth...yet what of the survival of the fittest

how is it that our newborn take the longest of any species to survive on their own...i mean if a giraffe's neck developed from stretching to reach food, you would think that over the millennium our women should be dropping babies that should be able to drop and give you 20 right out of the womb...

does not really matter what side of the isle you are on...you put your faith in something...

some put it in God...some put it in man...

[Tennesseer]

Nov 1, 2014 1:18:23 GMT -5 ktunes said:

for all you mathematicians out there...what are the odds that you could have a huge cosmic blast, the big bang event, and have the results be only one single planet with just the right tilt of axis, atmospheric conditions, etc. that would support life...

without some kind of design that is...

i bet the odds are better that you could set off some c4 in a newspaper production line and have the results be a fully assembled collegiate dictionary...maybe i should buy a lottery ticket...

another thing that bothers me about evolution is the fact that humans are the top of the food chain, right...most advanced, intelligent of all other species on earth...yet what of the survival of the fittest

how is it that our newborn take the longest of any species to survive on their own...i mean if a giraffe's neck developed from stretching to reach food, you would think that over the millennium our women should be dropping babies that should be able to drop and give you 20 right out of the womb...

does not really matter what side of the isle you are on...you put your faith in something...

some put it in God...some put it in man...

Dinosaurs were once at the top of the food chain too. Some day in the future, another species of animal will be at the top of the food chain. That is called life on earth.

Where humans "drop" their newborn is far different than where giraffes, wildebeests, zebras and others drop their newborn. Humans as a whole do not have to worry about lions, hyenas, dingoes, mountain lions and the like snatching their newborn once the babies are born. Human infants for thousands of years have been born in caves, homes, hospitals, and clinics unlike other mammals born in the open. Human newborns do not need to be able to walk almost immediately and join a herd for protection like many other mammals do. There is protection in numbers. Elephants, by the way, don't reach adulthood until around the age of 18-the same age as humans do, and on average, live almost as long as humans do too.

The odds are far greater our earth could "be only one single planet with just the right tilt of axis, atmospheric conditions, etc. that would support life..." than there are other planets in the universe "with just the right tilt of axis, atmospheric conditions, etc. that would support life..." I suspect, even our own universe with about 300 billion stars harbors at least one other sun with a planet that is capable of sustaining life, be it primitive, equal to, or even more advanced than ours. Multiply that by the estimated 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe. There are probably thousands of planets capable of and do sustain life, even intelligent life. We just don't have the technology to discover them at this time. Hopefully, one day we will.

[djAdvocate]

there are a lot of really unintelligent designs out there.  heck, humans are pretty poorly designed.  hips and knees are awful compared to the kind of joints that can be designed for, say, robots.  the sliding ball joint and truss system in the shoulder blade is pretty lame, too.  the spinal column is weak and subject to injury.  eyes are delicate, poorly protected.  the appendix serves no useful function other than to kill you.

yeah, God is pretty much a crap designer, unless all of these things are random.  then it all makes sense. 

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I'm lovin' it.

Chemistry Nobel Prize Based on Design Inference

Notice that what they found was not simply mechanisms that "repair DNA" as if any order of base pairs would do. No; they found systems and mechanisms that worked to maintain the genetic instructions needed to run the body (i.e., functional information).

So it's fair to say that what is "natural" is the spontaneous degradation of information. Mechanisms designed by a mind, by contrast, can overcome the natural tendency toward "pandemonium." We know from experience that it takes the guidance of goal-directed intelligence to proofread and correct errors in digital code. The BBC News aptly calls this process debugging. Ever see an unguided debugger of computer code?

The Origin of Plants Depended on "Pre-adaptation," Another Word for "Preparation"

I would tend to discount this pre-adaptationist story (for the original paper go here) because it is so unlikely on Darwinian grounds, were I not an intelligent design proponent. There are numerous other examples that parallel this one, though. We find pre-adapted genes in animals that never have developed the body plans or structures that require those genes. What are they doing there?

When organisms develop the genes and pathways their descendants will use at some future time, before they need them for that particular thing, it's called pre-adaptation, exaptation, or co-option. Whatever you call it, it's either a directed process or an extremely lucky one. Evidence of directed evolution, planning, or any kind of foresight is inimical to Darwinism, so perhaps it's not surprising that the name pre-adaptation is assigned, and it's left at that. But foresight is exactly what we expect from designed processes. Pre-adaptation is another word for preparation -- something all of us should recognize as a hallmark of design.

[weltschmerz]

Nov 1, 2014 1:18:23 GMT -5 ktunes said:

for all you mathematicians out there...what are the odds that you could have a huge cosmic blast, the big bang event, and have the results be only one single planet with just the right tilt of axis, atmospheric conditions, etc. that would support life...

without some kind of design that is...

i bet the odds are better that you could set off some c4 in a newspaper production line and have the results be a fully assembled collegiate dictionary...maybe i should buy a lottery ticket...

another thing that bothers me about evolution is the fact that humans are the top of the food chain, right...most advanced, intelligent of all other species on earth...yet what of the survival of the fittest

how is it that our newborn take the longest of any species to survive on their own...i mean if a giraffe's neck developed from stretching to reach food, you would think that over the millennium our women should be dropping babies that should be able to drop and give you 20 right out of the womb...

does not really matter what side of the isle you are on...you put your faith in something...

some put it in God...some put it in man...

If humans had to wait with incubation until their newborns were able to survive on their own, they'd be too big to push out. It would kill us.

So, to ensure our survival, they're pushed out when they're small, but then we have to take care of them longer. It's how we evolved.

[Virgil Showlion]

Some interesting articles, Ham.

Science always catches up. Slowly, painfully. If people let it.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I'm pretty sure he was being facetious, weltz. I think the point he was making is that we are ourselves are proof that it's intelligence over nature, as in:

Where Do Humans Really Rank on the Food Chain? We're not at the top, but towards the middle, at a level similar to pigs and anchovies

Ecologists, though, have a statistical way of calculating a species' trophic level—its level, or rank, in a food chain. And interestingly enough, no one ever tried to rigorously apply this method to see exactly where humans fall.

Until, that is, a group of French researchers recently decided to use food supply data from the U.N Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) to calculate human tropic level (HTL) for the first time. Their findings, published today in the Proceedings of the Natural Academy of Sciences, might be a bit deflating for anyone who's taken pride in occupying the top position.

On a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being the score of a primary producer (a plant) and 5 being a pure apex predator (a animal that only eats meat and has few or no predators of its own, like a tiger, crocodile or boa constrictor), they found that based on diet, humans score a 2.21—roughly equal to an anchovy or pig. Their findings confirm common sense: We're omnivores, eating a mix of plants and animals, rather than top-level predators that only consume meat.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Oct 25, 2015 15:06:00 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Some interesting articles, Ham.

Science always catches up. Slowly, painfully. If people let it.

Thanks! And how right you are my friend.

[Virgil Showlion]

Nov 14, 2014 20:36:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

there are a lot of really unintelligent designs out there.  heck, humans are pretty poorly designed.  hips and knees are awful compared to the kind of joints that can be designed for, say, robots.  the sliding ball joint and truss system in the shoulder blade is pretty lame, too.  the spinal column is weak and subject to injury.  eyes are delicate, poorly protected.  the appendix serves no useful function other than to kill you.

yeah, God is pretty much a crap designer, unless all of these things are random.  then it all makes sense. 

The theory of the human appendix being an atavism was disproved (or at least strongly cast into doubt) by several independent lines of research dating back almost a decade ago now. I think the list of "useless" human features is down to goosebumps, the coccyx, and some gland that atrophies into adulthood now, and I have no doubt that in our lifetimes they'll have figured out why those aren't actually useless either.

As for humans being a poor design because we're not indestructable, what makes you think God wanted humans (or any animal) to be indestructible? That's like saying a WV bug is poorly designed because it would lose a game of chicken with a freight train. He made us just as strong and just as vulnerable as we needed to be.

Nature is one of those rare, comforting domains where all one has to do is sit back and wait for enough failed hypotheses (read "established facts") to fall apart to let the underlying truth show through, little by little, decade by decade. As I say: science catches up, even if it takes a dog's age to do it.

[weltschmerz]

Why do all humans have a tail at some point in their development? Some are even born with tails.

 EVOLUTION!

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 25, 2015 16:30:29 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Why do all humans have a tail at some point in their development? Some are even born with tails.

 EVOLUTION!

I don't think anyone here is disputing that humans were created to resemble other hominids.

There are many theories as to why, but the one that seems most sensible to me is that God values humility, and there's nothing quite so humbling as a reminder that we (humanity) are ostensibly just apes gifted with a modicum of intelligence and creativity.

Besides, if humans just popped into the fossil record out of the blue without even a hint of a plausible explanation, where would be the need for faith, intellectual humility, and inquisition God values so greatly? God rewards those who diligently pursue Him (Hebrews 11:6), not those forced to conclude He exists because they've wisely concluded there's no other alternative (1 Corinthians 1:27, Jeremiah 8:9).

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Nature is one of those rare, comforting domains where all one has to do is sit back and wait for enough failed hypotheses (read "established facts") to fall apart to let the underlying truth show through, little by little, decade by decade. As I say: science catches up, even if it takes a dog's age to do it.

Well said, Virg. It's all about the trends and flows - I just love the relativity of it all!

[uncle23]

....


maybe it was designed for man to evolve to eventually discover his creator....

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Nice to see ya uncle.

I think that's the beauty in the simplicity of it all. From once we began so shall we return. C,D,E,F,G,A,B.

God bless the 7th.