HOA Drama

[tskeeter]

Aug 27, 2014 19:39:06 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Aug 27, 2014 13:32:04 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

As we deal with issues with our HOA's, there is a critical element that all of us need to keep in mind.  In most cases, the people who make your HOA run, the Board of Directors, CC&R Compliance Committee, and others (about 25 people in our HOA), do not get paid for the time and effort they devote to HOA activities.  They are volunteers.  And, in all probability, in addition to their time, they spend some of their own money for things that benefit the members of the HOA (I estimate that my membership on our HOA Board, landscape maintenance committee, and social committee costs me about $1,000 a year.)  And, on top of it, these people are your neighbors.  Yes, they are going to make mistakes and sometimes do things you don't agree with.  And get stressed out and react poorly because they are trying to deal with situations they are not comfortable with.  I think each of us has a couple of choices.  Be a little accepting of the situation and cut your HOA leaders some slack, if that is appropriate.  Or, get involved in your HOA, learn how it works and how things get done, and improve how your HOA operates.  

By the way, it might be nice if you took the time to thank your HOA Board members for what they do to make your HOA a decent place to live.  It takes a lot of effort for these people to make sure your parking area or streets are plowed in the winter time, that grass is mowed, buildings are painted, that your neighbor doesn't store his three trucks in his back yard, and the like.  These folks almost never hear anything from the members of their HOA except complaints and criticism of their efforts.  Be different.  Let them know you appreciate the three days of their time they spent looking for, evaluating, and hiring a contractor to mow the grass. 

Volunteering doesn't give people a pass to be a jerk which this hoa president was being.

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards

I'm not suggesting that is appropriate for people working in volunteer positions to behave like jerks.  Hopefully none of us ever acts like a jerk.  But, I do think it is appropriate for us to exercise a little empathy and recognize that volunteers probably do not have the same skill set and experience  level that real estate mangement professional would have.  And that at the end of the day, a real estate management professional leaves the office and takes a break fromt eh complaints and criticism, while the volunteer HOA Board member continues to receive complaint phone calls into the evening, all weekend, on holidays, etc. 

Overall, I do think that if I implied that someone misappropriated HOA funds, as the OP did, I'd expect the possibility of a less than cordial response.  Especially considering the way the OP posed her question about the use of HOA funds and that it appears that the OP did not investigate what expenditures were authorized in the HOA budget or by the Board prior to implying that funds might be misappropriated. 

It sounds like the OP's HOA President got about as upset as I did when one of our HOA Board members started to tell other community members that HOA funds were being mis-spent, even though he had participated in the compilation and approval of the budget that authorized the expenditure.  And that the expenditure had been discussed in detail during both budgeting sessions and during the public Board meeting where the budget was reviewed with the HOA members and approved.  Bottom line is that the Board member didn't want money spent that way, even though the other four Board members did.  So the Board member who was the odd man out had a convient lapse of memory about the events that he had participated in and started to raise concerns about the spending among HOA members, impling that the spending was inappropriate.  This was especially upsetting since the Board member could easily have asked a couple of questions to clarify his understanding rather than alleging to the general public that improprieties were occurring.  When the discussion regarding this spending item were complete, I think the Board member involved had a pretty clear understanding of how unhappy I was with his behavior.  Was I a jerk?  Probably a little bit.  But I wanted this Board member to understand very clearly that I did not consider back door attacks on decisions that he didn't agree with to be appropriate behavior.           

    

[Ava]

I understand what you are saying, and I understand volunteering for a HOA board can be very frustrating.
My email didn't mention any misappropriation of funds, it only mentioned allocation. A lot of money is supposedly being spent in the garden but there's water damage and neglected gutters. In my email I asked him how is it possible the garden comes before water damage.
We don't have regular meetings; I have never seen a proposed budget. Meetings happen once a year and are not very informative.
I don't know who took the decision of spending money in the garden since they never held a meeting to decide how to allocate the money.

[gacpa]

The whole "garden is perfect" but "water damage needs fixing" sounds like someone is indulging themselves in a little pet project with the help of HOA dues.  I would think repair and maintenance items would take priority, if for no other reason to show the homeowners that dues are being spent appropriately.  If funds were left over after R & M, then I could see a garden being a nice addition to the property.

I hope you get your water damage fixed. 

We live in a subdivision that has been hurt very badly from the housing crash.  The builder went under, the bank got her houses back.  Several homeowners lost their homes to foreclosure.  Investors snapped up several homes, not caring about who they rented to.  It was one big mess.  I had the neighbors from hell next door renting a house that a real estate "investor" picked up for pennies on the dollar at a foreclosure auction after the original buyers who were growing marijuana in the basement got tipped off and abandoned the property before they could be arrested.  She finally sold the home to a retired minister and his wife.  Now I have good neighbors on both sides of me.  Believe me, it was a nightmare living here for a few years.  I wanted to leave, but did not think I could find any place I would like better.  Every subdivision around here had been hit with the foreclosure stick.

Property values are slowly rising now.  In the last year or so, we have had some good people move in here that take care of their property.  We still have a few that do not keep their yards mowed.  It is irksome to me that this goes on , yet I get a letter from the HOA saying my mailbox needs painting, when I paint it every year.  Meanwhile, people are not mowing their yards, maintaining their fences or landscaping and their mailboxes look like they need to be scrapped.

It makes you wonder what the HOA board is looking at and are they playing games?

[TheOtherMe]

Aug 29, 2014 8:34:00 GMT -5 gacpa said:

The whole "garden is perfect" but "water damage needs fixing" sounds like someone is indulging themselves in a little pet project with the help of HOA dues.  I would think repair and maintenance items would take priority, if for no other reason to show the homeowners that dues are being spent appropriately.  If funds were left over after R & M, then I could see a garden being a nice addition to the property.

I hope you get your water damage fixed. 

   All members of the HOA are entitled to see the financials.  Ava, you are an accountant.  Request them and see where the money is going.

I do hope the water damage gets fixed this coming week.  Good luck.  

[Deleted]

Aug 31, 2014 19:56:20 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Aug 29, 2014 8:34:00 GMT -5 gacpa said:

The whole "garden is perfect" but "water damage needs fixing" sounds like someone is indulging themselves in a little pet project with the help of HOA dues.  I would think repair and maintenance items would take priority, if for no other reason to show the homeowners that dues are being spent appropriately.  If funds were left over after R & M, then I could see a garden being a nice addition to the property.

I hope you get your water damage fixed. 

   All members of the HOA are entitled to see the financials.  Ava, you are an accountant.  Request them and see where the money is going.

I do hope the water damage gets fixed this coming week.  Good luck.  

Make sure you are a member in good standing! In the condo where we lived, DH was treasurer, such as it was, but the deadbeat in the unit below us did not like to pay his condo fees until his bank was involved. Far as I know, still goes on to this day. Every 6 months the lawyer sends a letter to his mortgage holder to inform them that he hasn't paid his condo fees. Eventually he will lose his condo because of this of this and I will be the first one there dancing on his front walk, not his stairs or back porch as they are unsafe.

[zibazinski]

Aug 28, 2014 22:40:42 GMT -5 Ava said:

I understand what you are saying, and I understand volunteering for a HOA board can be very frustrating.
My email didn't mention any misappropriation of funds, it only mentioned allocation. A lot of money is supposedly being spent in the garden but there's water damage and neglected gutters. In my email I asked him how is it possible the garden comes before water damage.
We don't have regular meetings; I have never seen a proposed budget. Meetings happen once a year and are not very informative.
I don't know who took the decision of spending money in the garden since they never held a meeting to decide how to allocate the money.

As an owner, you have the right, at any time, for an accounting.

[tskeeter]

Aug 28, 2014 22:40:42 GMT -5 Ava said:

I understand what you are saying, and I understand volunteering for a HOA board can be very frustrating.
My email didn't mention any misappropriation of funds, it only mentioned allocation. A lot of money is supposedly being spent in the garden but there's water damage and neglected gutters. In my email I asked him how is it possible the garden comes before water damage.
We don't have regular meetings; I have never seen a proposed budget. Meetings happen once a year and are not very informative.
I don't know who took the decision of spending money in the garden since they never held a meeting to decide how to allocate the money.

Ava, your "who authorized" question about the flower beds carries with it the inference that the you don't think the expenditures were authorized, which would amount to a misappropriation of funds.  Yeah, it's semantics, interpretation and context.  But, in the US, that particular terminology has much more meaning than appears on the surface.  

[tskeeter]

Aug 29, 2014 8:34:00 GMT -5 gacpa said:

The whole "garden is perfect" but "water damage needs fixing" sounds like someone is indulging themselves in a little pet project with the help of HOA dues.  I would think repair and maintenance items would take priority, if for no other reason to show the homeowners that dues are being spent appropriately.  If funds were left over after R & M, then I could see a garden being a nice addition to the property.

I hope you get your water damage fixed. 

We live in a subdivision that has been hurt very badly from the housing crash.  The builder went under, the bank got her houses back.  Several homeowners lost their homes to foreclosure.  Investors snapped up several homes, not caring about who they rented to.  It was one big mess.  I had the neighbors from hell next door renting a house that a real estate "investor" picked up for pennies on the dollar at a foreclosure auction after the original buyers who were growing marijuana in the basement got tipped off and abandoned the property before they could be arrested.  She finally sold the home to a retired minister and his wife.  Now I have good neighbors on both sides of me.  Believe me, it was a nightmare living here for a few years.  I wanted to leave, but did not think I could find any place I would like better.  Every subdivision around here had been hit with the foreclosure stick.

Property values are slowly rising now.  In the last year or so, we have had some good people move in here that take care of their property.  We still have a few that do not keep their yards mowed.  It is irksome to me that this goes on , yet I get a letter from the HOA saying my mailbox needs painting, when I paint it every year.  Meanwhile, people are not mowing their yards, maintaining their fences or landscaping and their mailboxes look like they need to be scrapped.

It makes you wonder what the HOA board is looking at and are they playing games?

gacpa, one of the unfortunate realities of HOA life is that the HOA often has limited ability to force residents who do not comply with the CC&R's to comply.  Usually, the HOA does a better job of irritating residents who try to comply with the CC&R's than enforcing the CC&R's with people who choose not to comply. 

Here in NV, the HOA can levy fines and penalties for things like poorly maintinained yards.  And if the fines and penalties are not paid, a lien can be placed on the property.  But, the only action that an HOA can foreclose on and sell a property for is failure to pay assessments.  All of the other CC&R violations and the related liens only become a significant issue for the homeowner when they try to refinance a mortgage or when they try to sell the property and the title is clouded by the lien.  So it is common for HOA Boards to work for years to try to get certain homeowers to comply with CC&R's and other governing documents.  Usually with limited success.  (Our HOA has been working on one property for more than five years.) 

Although it doesn't look like it, since you're getting irritating nasty grams from the HOA, I think it's a pretty safe bet that the people whose yard maintenance irks you are getting similar correspondence and may be accumulating fine and penalties.  

[gacpa]

Thanks, TSkeeter.  What you says makes sense, but unfortunately I get too emotional and take things too personally.  Getting better, but still not quite there.

I think you are right, they are irritating residents who want to be in compliance because it is easier than dealing with people who ignore them completely.  I hope I never get any letters worse than the mailbox issue, because I don't think I could bear it.  Meanwhile, the people who choose not to comply are irritating those of us who do make an effort to maintain our property and yards.  I don't mean to sound self righteous, it is just the reality of the housing bust.  We are all victims of the foreclosure nightmare, even if we never missed a payment.

[Ava]

Sept 3, 2014 16:47:40 GMT -5 gacpa said:

Thanks, TSkeeter.  What you says makes sense, but unfortunately I get too emotional and take things too personally.  Getting better, but still not quite there.

I think you are right, they are irritating residents who want to be in compliance because it is easier than dealing with people who ignore them completely.  I hope I never get any letters worse than the mailbox issue, because I don't think I could bear it.  Meanwhile, the people who choose not to comply are irritating those of us who do make an effort to maintain our property and yards.  I don't mean to sound self righteous, it is just the reality of the housing bust.  We are all victims of the foreclosure nightmare, even if we never missed a payment.

That's true. In a way, I feel like a prisoner here. I cannot unload the condo because it's upside down. I am moving next year, and I'll have to become an unwilling landlord because I cannot sell this place. It's over 40k upside down right now and I cannot afford that. Fortunately, these condos rent easily and they rent for an amount that will be enough to cover expenses. Thanks President Obama for HUMP.
I have a friend who bought in 2006 and could barely afford a small, very old house in her town. Now in 2014 houses in that town are a lot cheaper. I'm talking about houses that are newer and have a garage and many amenities that she doesn't have. But again, she's upside down and cannot afford to sell.

The new maintenance guy came by and fixed the damage to my home. I always ask the board to please keep up with maintenance. They don't clean the gutters and then I get water damage again.
The president assured me they will do the maintenance. So let's wait and see.

[mmhmm]

I hope the management comes through for you this time, Ava. Congratulations on having finally gotten the damage repaired!

[gacpa]

Ava,

Our house is roughly worth $60,000 less than we paid for it.  I am stuck here.  A couple years ago, we re-financed the house, I thought at least I could get a lower interest rate out of the housing fiasco.

Our house appraised for $100,000 less than we paid for it in 2006 during the re-fi appraisal.  This is a cheaply built 3 bed, 2 bath basic home with a brick front and really cheap vinyl siding on the other three sides.  Thankfully, we had enough equity that the re-finance proceeded and we got a 3.75% rate on a 15 year mortgage.  I know there were many people who wanted to re-finance but did not have enough equity in their home to qualify and were stuck.  Could not sell, could not re-finance. I can see why people decided to walk away, but it made life tough on everyone.

[tskeeter]

Sept 3, 2014 16:47:40 GMT -5 gacpa said:

Thanks, TSkeeter.  What you says makes sense, but unfortunately I get too emotional and take things too personally.  Getting better, but still not quite there.

I think you are right, they are irritating residents who want to be in compliance because it is easier than dealing with people who ignore them completely.  I hope I never get any letters worse than the mailbox issue, because I don't think I could bear it.  Meanwhile, the people who choose not to comply are irritating those of us who do make an effort to maintain our property and yards.  I don't mean to sound self righteous, it is just the reality of the housing bust.  We are all victims of the foreclosure nightmare, even if we never missed a payment.

Gacpa, I don't think you HOA Board is harrasing residents who try to comply with the CC&R's because it is easier than dealing with people who ignore them.  I suspect that the HOA is trying to deal with all CC&R violations in a consistent fashion (prevents lawsuits that the members have to pay for).  In our HOA, the Board and the folks who monitor CC&R compliance spend a ton of effort trying to get the homeowners who ignore them to comply with the CC&R's.  But, unless you have the authority to kick the door down and make the homeowner mow the lawn under the observation of an armed guard, some folks just won't comply.

I am sympathetic to your getting upset when you've been contacted by the HOA about a minor issue.  I had similar reactions when I got some fan mail from our last HOA.  Unfortunately, to be able to enforce the CC&R's with people who only understand a heavy handed approach, the tone of most correspondence from HOA's about CC&R compliance is pretty aggressive.  Some of it to the point where I've said, hold it, these are my friends and neighbors and I don't think they deserve to be addressed in the fashion that your correspondence addresses them (We had a management company that viewed fining HOA members as a good thing, rather than simply wokring to generate compliance with the CC&R's.).

In most cases, correspondence from you HOA is not a personal attack. Trying to view the tone of a non-compliance notice as being oriented more toward the chronic CC&R violators and trying to take the correspondence with a grain of salt is often appropriate, even though it is difficult.