Didn't feel like looking for my old thread.

[The Captain]

Aug 21, 2014 13:42:56 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

You knew going into this that most businesses did not break even till year 5 (less if you are lucky) and barely make money (if not lose money) the first year.

You knew that and did it anyway, what change?

Abstractly knowing that and living through it are two completely different things.  COMPLETELY different.  You pour your heart and soul, and a pretty big chunk of money into something, and watch it struggle along day after day, month after month, it's a mental kick in the nuts.  Starting this thread makes me feel like a failure, all the responses make me feel like a failure.  Actually closing/selling this place is going to be gut wrenching.  I don't fail at things.  Or rather, I didn't.  I've spent the last year continuously failing at something I've dreamed about since I was a teenager.  It's fucking hard bro.

I've learned that I don't deal with stress as well as I thought I did.  I thought I was good at it, because it wasn't real stress.  If you work for somebody else and the company is struggling you stress a bit, but not really.  When it's your ass on the line, your mortgage that you can't pay, your kids that you can't afford to send to college, that's real stress.  Before I did this I had no idea.  I was young, naive, and honestly thought that the worst that can happen is I fail, that sucks, I pick myself up and move on.  In the grand scheme of things that's what I'll do, but when you're in the middle of the failure part it's a lot harder than you thought it would be.

You've overcome far worse.  This is just a hiccup you will able to shrug off in a few years. Hell, I failed the damn CPA exam despite multiple attempts and still managed to have a successful career.

Or would you feel better if we pounded on you? 

We're polar opposites when it comes to risk tolerance, but I respect you for having the balls to try this.

As far as the rest (family to support) I will tell you the fact that my job allows me to do that is what gets me through the shitty times when I'm missing DD growing up.  I hope it's able to help you get to a good place mentally in that respect as well.

[sesfw]

Sorry to hear this isn't going as you wished. I'm sure you said what kind of store it is but I missed it. Is it a toy store? baby store? convenience store?

Had a friend years ago that had a small cookie baking business and it really hurt when it didn't go well.

Deep breath and hope you have a great holiday season.

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2014 13:48:02 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Aug 21, 2014 13:25:16 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

He owns a newer business.  Even owners who have a more established business many times work very long hours.  It's the nature of the beast.  

Dark wrote:
"Honestly it's not that many hours. I've had jobs where I worked more hours. It's the stress in addition to the hours. I'm thinking about this place all the damn time. I dream about it. It's completely taken over my life. I'm not spending much time with the kids. My sexual appetite is practically non existent. Loop and I barely do anything anymore, other than stress about the store. Shit, I can't afford to do anything right now. I haven't made this little money since I was a teenager, but back then I didn't have a mortgage and two kids I'd like to send to college at some point."

When you take into account how much you think and stress about it then yes it's probably more hours than other jobs you've worked.  It's your livelihood and ability to support your family which is on the line and not a 9-5 job you can take a break from.  

It's also 54 hours a week without paid vacation, sick, and holidays.  6 days every week? that is not good for a family man.

This could have all worked out very differently - if only he had installed a diaper changing station.

Or opened a porn store.  Then maybe at least the sex drive would still be there.

[Cookies Galore]

Very sorry to hear this news. Not like it's a consolation, but I'll agree with everyone that at least you took a gamble and tried. Not all of us can say that.

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2014 13:49:56 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Very sorry to hear this news. Not like it's a consolation, but I'll agree with everyone that at least you took a gamble and tried. Not all of us can say that.

Nope. 

I'm even paranoid to leave the company I've been with for 20 years and I don't even make much.  People like Dark are my heroes.  I think they're nuts, but they're my heroes.  LOL

[souldoubt]

To be fair I don't think most people would be able to handle stress like that.  I've worked for a failing company before where we had to take pay cuts and it sucked seeing why it failed while not being able to do anything about it but at the end of the day it wasn't my ass on the line.  Sure my paycheck was on the line but when it got to a point I said enough is enough and started looking for a new job.  

Failing always sucks but you have to consider the long term implications of staying on the same course.  There's always the chance you pull through after a while and things improve but it isn't likely and I say that just as I would to any new businesses owner that is struggling.  Better to make that decision now, regroup and get a new strategy/job/plan rather than make things worse. 

[Firebird]

You've overcome far worse. This is just a hiccup you will able to shrug off in a few years. Hell, I failed the damn CPA exam despite multiple attempts and still managed to have a successful career.

I concur with that.

People who never fail are people who never try anything new.  As I just said, I'm probably too much of a chicken to give this a shot in my own life.  I don't want to deal with what you're going through now.

The fact that you tried and failed means that you've got a lot more balls than most people, including me.  Every successful business owner that I know has failed at least once.

Also, you haven't actually failed yet.  I would wait to see how the Christmas season does and step up the advertising - it might go better than you think.

[greeniis10]

Aug 21, 2014 13:42:56 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

You knew going into this that most businesses did not break even till year 5 (less if you are lucky) and barely make money (if not lose money) the first year.

You knew that and did it anyway, what change?

Abstractly knowing that and living through it are two completely different things.  COMPLETELY different.  You pour your heart and soul, and a pretty big chunk of money into something, and watch it struggle along day after day, month after month, it's a mental kick in the nuts.  Starting this thread makes me feel like a failure, all the responses make me feel like a failure.  Actually closing/selling this place is going to be gut wrenching.  I don't fail at things.  Or rather, I didn't.  I've spent the last year continuously failing at something I've dreamed about since I was a teenager.  It's fucking hard bro.

I've learned that I don't deal with stress as well as I thought I did.  I thought I was good at it, because it wasn't real stress.  If you work for somebody else and the company is struggling you stress a bit, but not really.  When it's your ass on the line, your mortgage that you can't pay, your kids that you can't afford to send to college, that's real stress.  Before I did this I had no idea.  I was young, naive, and honestly thought that the worst that can happen is I fail, that sucks, I pick myself up and move on.  In the grand scheme of things that's what I'll do, but when you're in the middle of the failure part it's a lot harder than you thought it would be.

NO - you're just barely taking the first steps!  I'm not minimizing your feelings at all.  I do get it.  But YOU are NOT a failure!  Some businesses succeed and others do not.  TONS of variables are involved and you cannot possibly plan for every one.  This is barely the first year - as mentioned most businesses need 5+ years to really get going.  (that's not to imply that you're giving up; I do not mean that)

FWIW, I still view your story as a success even if you do close/sell.  But, I'm honestly hoping this is just a "down" time, a lull in the year, which is common for late-summer. 

[NancysSummerSip]

I think you would have experienced far greater stress had you never taken a shot at it. You'd always wonder, "What if?"
Ideally, no one should leave this world still asking that question. Of course, many do. By taking that chance, you'll have to ask it one less time. And that's a good thing.

[movingforward]

Having tried and failed will, in all likelihood, make you a better person.  Live experiences are what shape us and make us who we are.  You will go on to be successful at something else and this will be but a blimp on your radar one day. 

[trimommy]

Aug 21, 2014 13:07:06 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

 I hope you find the special unicorn job that is fulfilling and also pays the bills.

Thanks for this! I have been struggling for a couple of years now with "what is my purpose" and "what do I really want to do" without any real answers. Sometimes you hear "do what you love" so much that you think you're a failure for working a regular job that even if it doesn't make you miserable, also doesn't bring you any joy.

I feel better about where I am and investing my energy into enjoying my time away from work rather than obsessing over how and where to find a unicorn.

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2014 13:21:17 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

What is it you are doing that requires you to work a billion hours a week?

The store is open 10am-6pm Tues-Thurs, 10am-10pm Friday & Saturday, and 11am-5pm on Sun.  That's 54 hours already.  I'm here a bit earlier to get open, and a bit later cleaning and closing.  Deeper cleaning, ordering, bank deposits, meeting with sales reps, paperwork, just random stuff that needs to get done is in addition to the hours I'm already here working the register.

Honestly it's not that many hours.  I've had jobs where I worked more hours.  It's the stress in addition to the hours.  I'm thinking about this place all the damn time.  I dream about it.  It's completely taken over my life.  I'm not spending much time with the kids.  My sexual appetite is practically non existent.  Loop and I barely do anything anymore, other than stress about the store.  Shit, I can't afford to do anything right now.  I haven't made this little money since I was a teenager, but back then I didn't have a mortgage and two kids I'd like to send to college at some point.

I totally understand the stress of owning a business.  You don't have the business, it has you.
I'm sorry this didn't work for you. I had high hopes that it would. Learning from experience is not failure. 

[movingforward]

Aug 21, 2014 14:02:19 GMT -5 trimommy said:

Aug 21, 2014 13:07:06 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

 I hope you find the special unicorn job that is fulfilling and also pays the bills.

Thanks for this! I have been struggling for a couple of years now with "what is my purpose" and "what do I really want to do" without any real answers. Sometimes you hear "do what you love" so much that you think you're a failure for working a regular job that even if it doesn't make you miserable, also doesn't bring you any joy.

I feel better about where I am and investing my energy into enjoying my time away from work rather than obsessing over how and where to find a unicorn.

Even if you do enjoy your job, which I do, a person can still suffer from burnout.  I have been experiencing this the last few weeks.  I think in part it is due to the slow summer months where I work.  May - August are fairly boring.  Next month things will pick back up and I am also attending two conferences (one in Dallas and one in Vegas).  Burnout is still there though.  As I have gotten older I have learned to accept that most jobs just aren't very exciting. 

[greeniis10]

In all seriousness, I firmly believe you should write a book, starting with your upbringing, what you overcame, how you and Loop got together so young (and made it work!), what you did then to support your family so successfully, how you felt about it, your "leap of faith", it's ups and downs all while raising two daughters, etc.  The good, the bad, the happy, the sad, and everything in between.  Your story is interesting and could influence a lot of people. 

[Cookies Galore]

Aug 21, 2014 13:51:37 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aug 21, 2014 13:49:56 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Very sorry to hear this news. Not like it's a consolation, but I'll agree with everyone that at least you took a gamble and tried. Not all of us can say that.

Nope. 

I'm even paranoid to leave the company I've been with for 20 years and I don't even make much.  People like Dark are my heroes.  I think they're nuts, but they're my heroes.  LOL

I don't like change as well. A terrible affliction to have when you're young and child-free!

[Deleted]

Years ago, I had a very gently male friend who was found curled up in the corner of his office, crying. He had a complete mental breakdown due to the hate he had over his job, one he felt he couldn't quit, because of the great pay and the benefits. He needed both to support his family. He ended up losing most everything he had, even his wife and kids.
I think it's hard to know when and how to change direction.

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2014 14:49:29 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Years ago, I had a very gently male friend who was found curled up in the corner of his office, crying. He had a complete mental breakdown due to the hate he had over his job, one he felt he couldn't quit, because of the great pay and the benefits. He needed both to support his family. He ended up losing most everything he had, even his wife and kids.
I think it's hard to know when and how to change direction.

That will be me someday.  I feel the strings snapping.  Ping. Ping. Ping.

[Lizard Queen]

Is there a way to get out without losing your shirt? I don't like the personal guarantee on the rent, and I think you had a 7 year lease didn't you? Do you think that you can sell the business successfully?  You can try to get a break on the rent, but with the guarantee there, I doubt that they care.
Can you do something like computer repair as part of the business to help with the bottom line?

I'm just envisioning your owing $10's of thousands in rent, and I don't want that to happen to you.

[sheilaincali]

Rukh has a good point. Will waiting until Christmas pay off? Will it be enough to offset the overhead expenses for the next 4 months?

I'm sorry that this thread is making you feel worse- I'm sure that isn't anyone's intention.

Small businesses are tricky and difficult to get off the ground. I seriously do applaud you for having the courage to put yourself out there and try.

I talk a good game about leaving here in 2 years and the Boy graduates but I am scared shitless. For most of my life I have worked for my dad and I haven't had a "real" boss in years. I have no idea what to expect with a different job. I keep having visions of white boards and needing to sign out to use the bathroom and people timing me.  It took a lot of guts to do what you did and there is no shame in trying something and finding out it's not right.

There's something to be said about that Thomas Edison quote: I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work

[raeoflyte]

I'm sorry things are tough right now.  I'm failing right now too, for something far less glamorous and rewarding.  It sucks.  

I also think you should be glad you went for it.  

[movingforward]

I keep having visions of white boards and needing to sign out to use the bathroom and people timing me.

[geenamercile]

Dark even if you close the store I don't think you failed.  You ran an experiment and had an outcome.  See what the holiday season brings.  We just had a store like yours open up here, well a few months ago.  They don't do the gaming thing, they are fully young children focus.  But they have differnt events, people dressing up in costume, a story time, lots of things to bring kids in.  I have liked them on face book.  I can see where you are getting burned out.  Is there a few days where you could close the store under the pretense of getting ready for the holiday season, and then open it with a great big bang.  I'm wondering if even just taking 5 days off could help refresh you.

[nutty]

No way, you didn't fail. You took a chance, maybe not a perfect chance in the right circumstances but you still did it. Give yourself a pat on the back.

[Regis]

Honestly it's not that many hours. I've had jobs where I worked more hours. It's the stress in addition to the hours. I'm thinking about this place all the damn time. I dream about it. It's completely taken over my life.


Having had my own business for ten years, I can certainly relate as I used pretty much these exact same words many, many times.  However, I had an employee who had to remind me that no matter how bad it got, they couldn't eat us - we'd still live another day regardless.

And I have a feeling you would have had a much larger regret had you not tried this business at all and gone to your grave wondering if you could have done it.  You've got nothing to be ashamed of, Dark.  Businesses don't succeed for a variety of reasons.  Yours was not for lack of effort so I think we all can appreciate that.

Go home, do something fun with Loop and the kids and chill out with a cold brew (just not one of those expensive ones - this is still YM!).

[Sum Dum Gai]

Sorry, got busy in here.  To answer a few questions we signed a 3 year lease.  We'll be 1.5 years into it if we close after this Christmas.  Rent is basically $3k a month, so if the landlord doesn't find a new tenant we could personally owe $54k.

[shanendoah]

*hugs* Let's start with those. *more hugs*

I know EXACTLY how lucky I am that C and I weren't really together, and at least were "young and stupid" at the time he and his partner ran their store. We're even luckier that the partner put everything in his name. (C actually financed the entire start up with an inheritance, but it was his friend who had the job and credit history to get the lease, etc.)
I remember what it was like when we had roommates to help with the rent, friends who would open/work the register/close the store for free (oh wait, that was me) so that the guys could go have a presence at conventions and get the word out. I absolutely cannot imagine going through that now, not with the mortgage, the kid, etc, even though it was the dream of C and his partner.

That experience gave them both some major life lessons AND makes great resume fodder (okay, not so much now was it was 15 years ago, but still).

You took the opportunity to chase your dream. It turned out the reality of the dream could not live up to the dream of the dream, but that is NOT failure. That is life.

On a slightly different note: We took the chain mail dice bag to Faire as a coin purse, and then C used it last night as an actual dice bag for Encounters. We love it and have gotten some great compliments on it.

[Angel!]

I think the last 2 years would have been more miserable if you hadn't given it a shot.  You would have hated walking into work everyday & spent the rest of your life thinking about the chance you didn't take.  You now know the results, it didn't go the way you wanted & that sucks, but you don't have to wonder "what if" like most people with huge dreams.

Maybe christmas will be huge.  Or maybe at least you failed fast, which is better than doing this for 7 years, never making a profit, always stressing, missing your girls childhood, & losing all you skills to gt you back into an IT job.

[Firebird]

I think the last 2 years would have been more miserable if you hadn't given it a shot. You would have hated walking into work everyday & spent the rest of your life thinking about the chance you didn't take.



I actually dug out "the old thread" (pause while FB reassures herself she's not really a stalker) and have been rereading it.  Hoboy were you ever one miserable mofo before you made this leap.  And I don't blame you one bit.  It was full on Office Space all the way.  Different kind of miserable, for sure, but you were practically screaming to leave that government job you'd only had for ~6 months at the time. 

No way could you have lasted another few years without at least TRYING something else.  As you put it at the time, you get bored too easily to sit around and color for 40 years, then retire. 

[Firebird]

Apr 2, 2013 21:16:12 GMT -7 Shaun of the Toys said:
I don't think I'm going to look for a job. I had one, by most measures a pretty good one, i.e. normal hours, no overtime, didn't have to take work home with me or be on call, paid better than average, and I was completely unhappy. Dark 2.0 is done working for other people. He has no idea what the hell he's going to do with himself, but he's doing it for himself.

Oh, and he talks in the third person. He always wanted to do that, so why not start now?

You did what you said you were going to do.  That's more than most people can say. 

[milee]

Aug 21, 2014 13:42:56 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

You knew going into this that most businesses did not break even till year 5 (less if you are lucky) and barely make money (if not lose money) the first year.

You knew that and did it anyway, what change?

Abstractly knowing that and living through it are two completely different things.  COMPLETELY different.  You pour your heart and soul, and a pretty big chunk of money into something, and watch it struggle along day after day, month after month, it's a mental kick in the nuts.  Starting this thread makes me feel like a failure, all the responses make me feel like a failure.  Actually closing/selling this place is going to be gut wrenching.  I don't fail at things.  Or rather, I didn't.  I've spent the last year continuously failing at something I've dreamed about since I was a teenager.  It's fucking hard bro.

I've learned that I don't deal with stress as well as I thought I did.  I thought I was good at it, because it wasn't real stress.  If you work for somebody else and the company is struggling you stress a bit, but not really.  When it's your ass on the line, your mortgage that you can't pay, your kids that you can't afford to send to college, that's real stress.  Before I did this I had no idea.  I was young, naive, and honestly thought that the worst that can happen is I fail, that sucks, I pick myself up and move on.  In the grand scheme of things that's what I'll do, but when you're in the middle of the failure part it's a lot harder than you thought it would be.

  I am so, so sorry.  That is hard and is so very draining physically and emotionally.  The first few years of any business are really, really tough.  Very similar to the last 6 miles of a marathon - painful and feels never ending.

You're in the best position to know if it's worth it to hold out until after Christmas.  My gut would say - yes if you can grit through it.  If you're in the common toy retail pattern, more than 50% of your annual sales will happen in the last few months of the year, so that would be worth waiting a little bit for.  Also, if you are going to try to sell the business, the sales price is often based on the last two years' sales with an extra weighting on the most recent sales; offering it for sale after a strong Christmas season will put you in a better position to get more money from a new owner.  None of that is worth further damaging your family or yourself, though, so be realistic about if it's doable for you to actually hold out.  It may not be. 

From being through working that many hours in starting a business, the one thing I'd add to the good advice you've gotten is that it's almost impossible to make good strategic decisions when you're neck deep in alligators and haven't slept more than 3 hours a night for months.  Your body is exhausted, your brain is fried and you have a caustic mix of caffeine and cortisol sloshing around inside you constantly adding to the stress level and compromising decision making.  Before you make any decision about what to do with the business or your life, do whatever you have to do to get 3-4 days off.  I know - sounds impossible, but think of it as investment.  One (and maybe even two) day(s) isn't going to be enough to let you sleep a little, relax and step away from it enough to be calm and focused.  And it's best if you can be calm and focused for decisions this big.  It's a really slow time of year.  Shut your business for Monday - Thursday.  Put a big sign out with an interesting tease - "Gone to research ____________ cool new toy" or something so customers that drop by are curious rather than turned off.  And take a few days to sleep, relax, go to the beach/mountain/whatever helps you feel good.  Make a conscious effort to not think about the business and give yourself a break.  On the last day, when you've given yourself a little break and some rest, then spend the day doing some planning, plotting and thinking.

Whatever you decide - good luck and I'm sorry it's been so hard.