Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 14, 2014 15:59:17 GMT -5
You going to pay for it? Just because somebody opens a business doesn't mean they have to cater to every whim of every customer they might ever have walk through the door. I own a toy store and we don't have a changing station in our bathroom. We're a small store so we're not even legally required to have a public bathroom. If we do choose to have our bathroom accessible to the public, I'm required to put in certain signage and whatnot to make it accessible to handicap folks. That's it. There's no requirement to spend money making life easier for people who choose to shop or eat with babies. It's true that a changing station is pretty cheap. It's also one more thing for me to clean, and some people will make a god awful mess on the thing and leave it for me to clean up, without saying anything of course, so I won't even find it until I go to clean up before closing. If kids go in there and horse around on it, climb on it, etc, loosening the bolts, I'll be the one who gets sued when somebody is using it and it comes off the wall. If somebody is using the table and walks over to throw the diaper in the trash while their kid falls off the changing table, I'm the one who gets sued. What's the upside for me? If somebody is in here shopping and their kid craps in their diaper they can change it here and leave a smelly diaper in the bathroom trash instead of walking out and changing the kid in their car and possibly not coming back in? Yay... sign me up. I wouldn't worry about a smallish toy store having one. I'd just go use Target's (or whomever the big box store is near you) But if it's a restaurant that wants families to come in, I'd expect a changing station (hopefully 2 - 1 in men's and 1 in women's bathrooms) I consider a pizza place to be a family restaurant and therefore would expect to have a changing station.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 14, 2014 16:01:19 GMT -5
Almost all Ladies' Rooms here have the drop-down changing table attached to the wall. Family restaurants, grocery stores, dept. stores, public sporting arenas, etc - even some gas stations.
About the only places you might not see one available is at places like a fine-dining restaurant - that doesn't really cater to children or children's menus anyway.
If I saw someone changing a baby's diaper on top of the table in a restaurant, it would sure gross me out.
No they don't. I have been across this country with my kids (ages 4.5 and 1.5) from NY to Florida to Missouri to Minnesota. The only place that I am 99% guarenteed to find a changing station is McDonalds and I didn't find one the last time we stopped (turns out they had a family restroom in the play area that I didn't see when we walked in). Gas stations are hit and miss (maybe 50%, even big truck stops). It is really a crap shoot as to if you are going to find a changing table or not unless it is McDonalds. Other fast food restaurants are a crap shoot too. You seem to have missed the red word in the above post, unless you guys live in the same area.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Aug 14, 2014 16:01:32 GMT -5
You going to pay for it? Just because somebody opens a business doesn't mean they have to cater to every whim of every customer they might ever have walk through the door. I own a toy store and we don't have a changing station in our bathroom. We're a small store so we're not even legally required to have a public bathroom. If we do choose to have our bathroom accessible to the public, I'm required to put in certain signage and whatnot to make it accessible to handicap folks. That's it. There's no requirement to spend money making life easier for people who choose to shop or eat with babies. It's true that a changing station is pretty cheap. It's also one more thing for me to clean, and some people will make a god awful mess on the thing and leave it for me to clean up, without saying anything of course, so I won't even find it until I go to clean up before closing. If kids go in there and horse around on it, climb on it, etc, loosening the bolts, I'll be the one who gets sued when somebody is using it and it comes off the wall. If somebody is using the table and walks over to throw the diaper in the trash while their kid falls off the changing table, I'm the one who gets sued. What's the upside for me? If somebody is in here shopping and their kid craps in their diaper they can change it here and leave a smelly diaper in the bathroom trash instead of walking out and changing the kid in their car and possibly not coming back in? Yay... sign me up. Nobody expects a toy store to have a changing table and probably not even a bathroom. A restaurant/gas station/grocery store should have changing tables though. And if they share your attitude on why they shouldn't have them, then the rest of their restaurant is probably kind of a sh*t hole too. In other words, changing tables show the owners are empathetic people. High correlation between changing tables and a good restaurant. Moral of the story is to put one in unless you want crap all over your tables..
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 14, 2014 16:04:17 GMT -5
- They probably could smell it before she changed the diaper. One night after DD was sleeping, she did #2 in her diaper. I peeked in on her and noticed the smell. I said well, I don't really want to wake her and I left her and left the door open a little bit. An hour later I could smell her poop ACROSS the house! I decided then that her diaper needed to be changed despite having to wake her up. Now she was over 1 at the time, so poops are stinkier than straight formula or breastmilk poops that a 4 month old would have. But still. The whole smell thing is just funny to me. Like a diaper contains smell so well. There is absolutely no way to know this. Not all diapers are super smelly right away. And even if it was, that is no excuse to change the damn diaper right on the table! Come on people! This is about as rude and selfish as it gets!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 14, 2014 16:08:43 GMT -5
Or it's a subtle hint that they don't actually want families with really young children and babies to eat there. Young children and babies can be more disruptive to other patrons, usually tie up the table longer, and are more likely to leave the table messier which takes more staff time before the table can be used again. What's the upside for the business owner? Do families with young children and babies spend more on average? Do they leave bigger tips? Are they more loyal customers to the businesses they like?
The only one of those three I can maybe see is the third one. Now weigh that against the number of other potential customers they lose or get complaints from when young children or babies are disrupting their meal.
Business wise which customer would you rather have, a screaming 2 year old, or an older wealthy couple?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 14, 2014 16:20:54 GMT -5
Do families with young children and babies spend more on average? Do they leave bigger tips? Yes & Yes in my case. I spend more if my whole family is there & I definitely leave a much bigger tip if my kid made a mess & as a server you put up with my kids in a friendly manner. Last restaurant I went to I actually stuck an extra $5 in the bill after I'd already paid a 25% tip on the CC. We were going to leave & opened the door & it was like a freaking hurricane outside. Bartender & waitress both immediately told us all to come sit down for a while longer until the storm passes. Then the waitress runs & get those tablets with games on them & gives one to each of my older kids. I thought it was awesome they did that & would have left $10 if I'd had it in cash. They had plenty of tables because it was around 2 PM at that point, so it wasn't like we were taking up valuable space at that point, but I was still impressed & would go back.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 14, 2014 16:28:30 GMT -5
- They probably could smell it before she changed the diaper. One night after DD was sleeping, she did #2 in her diaper. I peeked in on her and noticed the smell. I said well, I don't really want to wake her and I left her and left the door open a little bit. An hour later I could smell her poop ACROSS the house! I decided then that her diaper needed to be changed despite having to wake her up. Now she was over 1 at the time, so poops are stinkier than straight formula or breastmilk poops that a 4 month old would have. But still. The whole smell thing is just funny to me. Like a diaper contains smell so well. There is absolutely no way to know this. Not all diapers are super smelly right away. And even if it was, that is no excuse to change the damn diaper right on the table! Come on people! This is about as rude and selfish as it gets! I have never once changed a diaper in a restaurant. I'm not defending her actions. However, I just find it absolutely silly that Oh it was the smell. WTF where is this magical diaper that contains smells because I want one for my DD. I also want to live or travel to these magical places that have changing tables in every single establishment.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Aug 14, 2014 16:37:08 GMT -5
You going to pay for it? Just because somebody opens a business doesn't mean they have to cater to every whim of every customer they might ever have walk through the door. I own a toy store and we don't have a changing station in our bathroom. We're a small store so we're not even legally required to have a public bathroom. If we do choose to have our bathroom accessible to the public, I'm required to put in certain signage and whatnot to make it accessible to handicap folks. That's it. There's no requirement to spend money making life easier for people who choose to shop or eat with babies. It's true that a changing station is pretty cheap. It's also one more thing for me to clean, and some people will make a god awful mess on the thing and leave it for me to clean up, without saying anything of course, so I won't even find it until I go to clean up before closing. If kids go in there and horse around on it, climb on it, etc, loosening the bolts, I'll be the one who gets sued when somebody is using it and it comes off the wall. If somebody is using the table and walks over to throw the diaper in the trash while their kid falls off the changing table, I'm the one who gets sued.
What's the upside for me? If somebody is in here shopping and their kid craps in their diaper they can change it here and leave a smelly diaper in the bathroom trash instead of walking out and changing the kid in their car and possibly not coming back in? Yay... sign me up.I was going to say essentially what Dark said. Let me add, there's really no room for high chairs at our shop but we used to have booster seats. The third time a kid fell out because of poor parental supervision I tossed them in the dumpster. We just can't be everything to everyone. I frequently changed my kids in my car when they were in diapers. My kids' smelly diaper went in my trash, not some public place with the aroma to be shared by all.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 14, 2014 16:38:26 GMT -5
On my flight to Ireland there was line for the bathroom and a lady was waiting in the aisle with her infant. OMG, did that baby's diaper smell bad . Seemed like she stood there forever too. When she finally walked away I heard the guy behind me tell his travel companion "what the hell did that child eat?" On a good note though the child was super good the entire way there. I don't think I hear her cry but once and that was when we landed.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 14, 2014 16:42:04 GMT -5
Those bathrooms are so tiny. I can't imagine trying to change a baby in one.
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Aug 14, 2014 16:42:58 GMT -5
OK that is disgusting. No way would I change a child on the floor of a public bathroom even with a changing pad. (For the record, I take my kid out to the car and change him or her there when there is not changing table. They have both been changed in front seats, on top of luggage in the trunk, and all sorts of places, but never on the floor in the public bathroom.) I'm with muttley. There's no way I'd change DS on the floor of a restroom - one, it's dirty, even with the mat, and two, I'd have to kneel or sit on that filthy floor and that for sure isn't happening. I'd either use the counter by the sink, or take him out to the car, both of which I've done. But agreed, indefinitely wouldn't change him on the table.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 14, 2014 16:43:03 GMT -5
There is absolutely no way to know this. Not all diapers are super smelly right away. And even if it was, that is no excuse to change the damn diaper right on the table! Come on people! This is about as rude and selfish as it gets! I have never once changed a diaper in a restaurant. I'm not defending her actions. However, I just find it absolutely silly that Oh it was the smell. WTF where is this magical diaper that contains smells because I want one for my DD. I also want to live or travel to these magical places that have changing tables in every single establishment. You got to admit though, the smell generally gets significantly worse once you open up the diaper. Like Malarky, I have changed diapers in my car many times. I don't like stopping at a gas station just to run in and change a diaper. Not when I can do it pretty easy in my car. Also, am I the only one that rarely carries around a big diaper bag full of stuff like changing pads? If we are just going into a restaurant I stick 1-2 diapers in my purse with some wipes. I don't carry around a changing pad. If something comes up I can always go to the car & get extra clothes or whatever might be in the bag. But I've just realized I almost never need all the stuff packed in the diaper bag & it just sits in the car 99% of the time just in case.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 14, 2014 16:49:02 GMT -5
Those bathrooms are so tiny. I can't imagine trying to change a baby in one. Supposedly people actually have sex in those things too! Sorry but I have no desire to join the mile high club. Those bathrooms are disgusting. Having sex in one - no thanks! Fess up people - who has done this!?
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 14, 2014 16:50:01 GMT -5
I have never once changed a diaper in a restaurant. I'm not defending her actions. However, I just find it absolutely silly that Oh it was the smell. WTF where is this magical diaper that contains smells because I want one for my DD. I also want to live or travel to these magical places that have changing tables in every single establishment. You got to admit though, the smell generally gets significantly worse once you open up the diaper. Like Malarky, I have changed diapers in my car many times. I don't like stopping at a gas station just to run in and change a diaper. Not when I can do it pretty easy in my car. Also, am I the only one that rarely carries around a big diaper bag full of stuff like changing pads? If we are just going into a restaurant I stick 1-2 diapers in my purse with some wipes. I don't carry around a changing pad. If something comes up I can always go to the car & get extra clothes or whatever might be in the bag. But I've just realized I almost never need all the stuff packed in the diaper bag & it just sits in the car 99% of the time just in case. Jocelyn's when she wakes up in the morning or after a nap are so bad that by the time I get the diaper off, my nose hairs are singed and my eyes are watering. So no, I don't know notice it getting worse when I take off the diaper. (She's not that bad, I'm just remembering the memorable ones). That said, I thought I was pretty immune to poop. Then about a month ago an elderly man at church lost control of his bowels before he made it to the bathroom. I nearly threw up just walking by the diarrhea on the floor. Thankfully people with stronger stomachs than me cleaned it up.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 14, 2014 16:57:08 GMT -5
Ummm.....she could have done it in her car. That is normally true but St. Augustine is a huge tourist area where you have to park many blocks away and in a parking garage stories high. I'm guessing she didn't want her baby in a crappy/wet diaper in over 90 degree weather for that long. Wouldn't that cause or exacerbate diaper rash? I doubt it, but what the heck do I know ?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 14, 2014 16:59:10 GMT -5
Changing a diaper in a restaurant in the eating area just epitomizes the "I don't give a *** about other people" attitude which is more common than it should be. It's disgusting and unsanitary and the restaurant was right to toss her out. As the saying goes you don't need a license to have children.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 14, 2014 17:00:35 GMT -5
You going to pay for it? Just because somebody opens a business doesn't mean they have to cater to every whim of every customer they might ever have walk through the door. I own a toy store and we don't have a changing station in our bathroom. We're a small store so we're not even legally required to have a public bathroom. If we do choose to have our bathroom accessible to the public, I'm required to put in certain signage and whatnot to make it accessible to handicap folks. That's it. There's no requirement to spend money making life easier for people who choose to shop or eat with babies. It's true that a changing station is pretty cheap. It's also one more thing for me to clean, and some people will make a god awful mess on the thing and leave it for me to clean up, without saying anything of course, so I won't even find it until I go to clean up before closing. If kids go in there and horse around on it, climb on it, etc, loosening the bolts, I'll be the one who gets sued when somebody is using it and it comes off the wall. If somebody is using the table and walks over to throw the diaper in the trash while their kid falls off the changing table, I'm the one who gets sued. What's the upside for me? If somebody is in here shopping and their kid craps in their diaper they can change it here and leave a smelly diaper in the bathroom trash instead of walking out and changing the kid in their car and possibly not coming back in? Yay... sign me up. Well.....someone could take the kid to the car and then say "oh, screw it, I'll just order it from Amazon instead of dragging my kid back to the store" and there goes your sale.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 14, 2014 17:04:17 GMT -5
You got to admit though, the smell generally gets significantly worse once you open up the diaper. Like Malarky, I have changed diapers in my car many times. I don't like stopping at a gas station just to run in and change a diaper. Not when I can do it pretty easy in my car. Also, am I the only one that rarely carries around a big diaper bag full of stuff like changing pads? If we are just going into a restaurant I stick 1-2 diapers in my purse with some wipes. I don't carry around a changing pad. If something comes up I can always go to the car & get extra clothes or whatever might be in the bag. But I've just realized I almost never need all the stuff packed in the diaper bag & it just sits in the car 99% of the time just in case. Jocelyn's when she wakes up in the morning or after a nap are so bad that by the time I get the diaper off, my nose hairs are singed and my eyes are watering. So no, I don't know notice it getting worse when I take off the diaper. (She's not that bad, I'm just remembering the memorable ones). That said, I thought I was pretty immune to poop. Then about a month ago an elderly man at church lost control of his bowels before he made it to the bathroom. I nearly threw up just walking by the diarrhea on the floor. Thankfully people with stronger stomachs than me cleaned it up. I can deal with my child's poop, but anyone else's, no thank you!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 14, 2014 17:05:22 GMT -5
Take it from someone who has been changing diapers for 6 yrs straight and at one point had 3 kids in diapers - you don't really need grand accommodations, it's not that difficult.
And doing it while people are eating is as disgusting and selfish as it gets.
Doing it on the sink where a lot of people put their keys and sunglasses and other personal items comes close second.
If you are not prepared to take care of your kid without inconveniencing others - don't leave the house!
And yes, there are emergencies and special circumstances where shit happens and you have to deal with it - going to a restaurant is not one of them.
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JustLurkin
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Post by JustLurkin on Aug 14, 2014 17:18:11 GMT -5
Having my son did not slow me down from going out, and I'm pretty sure ~20 years ago changing stations were unheard of (yes, back to the "how did we manage to survive" thoughts ). Plus, my son is special needs so took longer to come out of diapers--you think 8mo old diapers are something you've obviously never changed a 4yo with gut issues--but I never changed him in public.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 14, 2014 17:24:10 GMT -5
And this will happen how often? Remember that I'm out several hundred up front to put the thing in, and I have to clean it everyday. How many of those sales do I have to recapture just to break even on the changing table, not counting the time or supplies to clean it (we'll pretend those are free for now or that it will magically stay clean on its own)?
How many of those sales do I need to capture to pay to defend a lawsuit if a mother/father has a kid fall off the changing table and sue me? I can't put cameras in the bathroom, so their version of the story will be that they used the little strap thing that comes with the table (which no parent ever actually uses), and the kid fell because the installation or changing table itself was defective somehow.
Where's the upside to me? In theory I get more sales because mothers of young children know that they can shop here with their kids and have a changing table available if they need one. However, I would guess that most people don't consider access to a changing table when making retail shopping decisions. Look at the number of people in this thread that have been out places and needed a changing table only to find out the bathroom didn't have one. They clearly don't research their retail destinations beforehand and choose to shop in places that have them.
I basically see installing one as a potential liability to me if a child falls off of it, with pretty much zero upside. I might get a couple extra sales a year from that parent that had to run to their car and doesn't come back in. Maybe. There are far more reliable ways to generate sales, most of which will have a way better payback than the several hundred to put in a changing table that the vast majority of my customers won't care about or use.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 14, 2014 17:32:47 GMT -5
In dark's case I probably wouldn't even have a restroom open to the public (except maybe on his game nights). I would think his store is small enough that people don't expect him to have a public bathroom.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 14, 2014 17:37:36 GMT -5
In dark's case I probably wouldn't even have a restroom open to the public (except maybe on his game nights). I would think his store is small enough that people don't expect him to have a public bathroom. When I am in a tiny store like that I don't expect there to be a public restroom.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 14, 2014 17:43:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't leave a baby in poop as it might get spots. I'm a pretty efficient changer... and would probably have the new one on in seconds In the cubicle on my lap though....not where people were eating.
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goldensam
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Post by goldensam on Aug 14, 2014 20:38:01 GMT -5
Sorry, it's just gross. The smell, the contamination, and then where exactly do you wash your hands when you are done? We were at a family dinner one night and my BIL put his baby up on the table to change a poop diaper. My DP called him out right then and there and told him to take it to the bathroom. Thankfully, he did. Full disclosure, I gag when people blow their noses at the table. Grosses me out.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Aug 14, 2014 21:46:52 GMT -5
Or it's a subtle hint that they don't actually want families with really young children and babies to eat there. Young children and babies can be more disruptive to other patrons, usually tie up the table longer, and are more likely to leave the table messier which takes more staff time before the table can be used again. What's the upside for the business owner? Do families with young children and babies spend more on average? Do they leave bigger tips? Are they more loyal customers to the businesses they like? The only one of those three I can maybe see is the third one. Now weigh that against the number of other potential customers they lose or get complaints from when young children or babies are disrupting their meal. Business wise which customer would you rather have, a screaming 2 year old, or an older wealthy couple? Everyone would rather have a perfect customer i.e. ones that have a lot of money, don't complain, and don't price-shop. When you have more business than you know what to do with, then you can afford to be picky. But most businesses can't afford to be picky and write-off a bunch of customer for a bunch of different reasons.
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Aug 15, 2014 9:55:54 GMT -5
Sorry - I should have said "no excuse for big chain places - Peet's coffee I'm looking at you - not to have a changing table." Completely agree that I wouldn't expect a small locally-owned store to have a public restroom.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 15, 2014 10:36:23 GMT -5
Never had a situation where there wasn't a changing table in a store/restaurant. I did have instances where I forgot to bring an extra diaper and in that case we'd just leave.
I changed her in the car a few times, usually at the Farmer's Market when there wasn't an easily accessible bathroom.
I would never change her on a public table or in front of a ton of people. We were at Vala's once and in a small confined area when I smelled a horrible odor. I kept sniffing Gwen and peeking in her diaper. .. nothing. Then I started wondering if DH farted. . .nope.
I turn around and this woman had plopped her 2-3 year old on the floor was and changing his diaper right there. It STANK. Not only that it made it really awkward for everyone to move because nobody wanted to step on the kid.
She could have walked several feet to the nearest restroom which had tables available and came back. Instead she chose to do it right there which I found rude. She was blocking the doorway so there was no way to escape without stomping on the child and it wasn't his fault his mom was tactless.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Aug 15, 2014 14:46:02 GMT -5
That is normally true but St. Augustine is a huge tourist area where you have to park many blocks away and in a parking garage stories high. I'm guessing she didn't want her baby in a crappy/wet diaper in over 90 degree weather for that long. Wouldn't that cause or exacerbate diaper rash? I doubt it, but what the heck do I know ? LOL! I do recall somebody here saying you could be wrong and that you've been wrong before.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 15, 2014 15:12:37 GMT -5
You going to pay for it? Just because somebody opens a business doesn't mean they have to cater to every whim of every customer they might ever have walk through the door. I own a toy store and we don't have a changing station in our bathroom. We're a small store so we're not even legally required to have a public bathroom. If we do choose to have our bathroom accessible to the public, I'm required to put in certain signage and whatnot to make it accessible to handicap folks. That's it. There's no requirement to spend money making life easier for people who choose to shop or eat with babies. It's true that a changing station is pretty cheap. It's also one more thing for me to clean, and some people will make a god awful mess on the thing and leave it for me to clean up, without saying anything of course, so I won't even find it until I go to clean up before closing. If kids go in there and horse around on it, climb on it, etc, loosening the bolts, I'll be the one who gets sued when somebody is using it and it comes off the wall. If somebody is using the table and walks over to throw the diaper in the trash while their kid falls off the changing table, I'm the one who gets sued. What's the upside for me? If somebody is in here shopping and their kid craps in their diaper they can change it here and leave a smelly diaper in the bathroom trash instead of walking out and changing the kid in their car and possibly not coming back in? Yay... sign me up. Nobody expects a toy store to have a changing table and probably not even a bathroom. A restaurant/gas station/grocery store should have changing tables though. And if they share your attitude on why they shouldn't have them, then the rest of their restaurant is probably kind of a sh*t hole too. In other words, changing tables show the owners are empathetic people. High correlation between changing tables and a good restaurant. Moral of the story is to put one in unless you want crap all over your tables.. Actually, the moral appears to be that if you change your kid's poopy diaper on the table of a restaurant you're going to get thrown out.
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