mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 18, 2014 11:38:45 GMT -5
There were exit wounds, and there were re-entry wounds, dj. There just weren't any exit wounds on the posterior side of the individual.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 11:41:08 GMT -5
I am so thankful we moved back to where we are in rural Americana. We are so far removed from this stuff its wonderful. We have a murder here once in a blue moon and petty thefts and some druggie crime on druggies. But this place overall is safe. I don't think the 2 o 3 blacks or 3 or 4 Hispanics or the 5 or 6 Asians are going to cause a lot of riots. This from someone who claims people that don't like Obama are racist. Just how many Black, Hispanic, or Asians before you have enough to cause a lot of riots?
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genericname
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Post by genericname on Aug 18, 2014 12:17:17 GMT -5
I am so thankful we moved back to where we are in rural Americana. We are so far removed from this stuff its wonderful. We have a murder here once in a blue moon and petty thefts and some druggie crime on druggies. But this place overall is safe. I don't think the 2 o 3 blacks or 3 or 4 Hispanics or the 5 or 6 Asians are going to cause a lot of riots. This from someone who claims people that don't like Obama are racist. Just how many Black, Hispanic, or Asians before you have enough to cause a lot of riots?
So, only blacks, Hispanics, and Asians riot? It only takes one ringleader to cause a bunch of otherwise peaceful protestors to begin to riot, no matter the race of the gathering. Riot police 101 - get the apparent leader on your side to get control of the crowd.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 18, 2014 12:20:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure I agree with that. If his hands (arms) were in the air - a police office is not going to aim to hit him in his raised arms. If he was trying to execute him, he'd aim for the body. Makes no sense that he'd be shooting at arms in the air. I'd be more apt to believe there was a struggle and the shots to the arm were a result of that struggle. In addition, the shot to the bicep area seeems to have exited into his chest. Doesn't appear that could happen if his arms were in the air. Nope. He wasn't standing there with his arms in the air - at least for those arm shots. I'm betting the hand shot came about in the struggle for a gun. Crap. I watch too many Criminal Minds episodes. I have no idea what I'm talking about but that's what Morgan would have said. without exit wounds, i can't say that i agree with that assessment. Just one uneducated theory. But there isn't always going to be an exit wound for each shot. Some bullets stay in the body. Even more telling to me, is that the latest release says he was shot in the top of the head and that was the fatal shot. Lots of ways this could happen, I guess....if he was kneeling in surrender...if he was bent over struggling for the gun...probably lots of others. What I cant see happening is him getting shot in the top of the head while running away as at least one witness statement I saw said. This young man was 6'4" tall. No way he gets hit in the top of the head if he's running away. Somebody is lying. Maybe a bunch of people are lying - on both sides.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 18, 2014 12:21:32 GMT -5
There were exit wounds, and there were re-entry wounds, dj. There just weren't any exit wounds on the posterior side of the individual. Agreed. Also, there weren't any entrance wounds on the posterior side - which kind of shoots hell out of the theory that he was shot while running away....unless he runs backwards....which is possible, I guess.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 18, 2014 12:26:58 GMT -5
There were exit wounds, and there were re-entry wounds, dj. There just weren't any exit wounds on the posterior side of the individual. Agreed. Also, there weren't any entrance wounds on the posterior side - which kind of shoots hell out of the theory that he was shot while running away....unless he runs backwards....which is possible, I guess. Yep. That's why I don't pay much attention to eye-witness accounts. People think they see all sorts of things they don't actually see. Some are traumatized, some are outright lying to cover up the truth, and others just want to be able to say they saw something.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 18, 2014 12:41:16 GMT -5
Arent' officers trained to first fire non-lethal shots to disable someone (arm, leg, etc)? Seems that would support the shots to the arm. Then kill shots if the person kept advancing or was fighting with the officer & he had no escape. And there's no gun residue because they haven't tested his clothes yet - they only got the body.
There are two adult men who know exactly what happened, and one is dead. It does irritiate me that they keep saying this guy was an unarmed teenager - yes, he may have been unarmed, but he wasn't a little kid. He was a legal adult. Looking at his pics I wouldn't know if he was 18 or 25.
Gov Nixon is a joke, honestly. Never been a fan. I hope the national guard can get this mess under control soon. Everyone seems to have lost their damn minds over it. How the hell is looting and rioting supposed to bring about any sort of justice or change? I've got friends there that are teachers & schools are being shut down while this all is going on. DH and his partner do business out there and he's said it's not a great place to be even when this stuff isn't happening.
Last year in KC a police officer shot & killed an unarmed firefighter. Both white, so no racial difference to make the national media. But the firefighter was off-duty and celebrating his wedding, drunk out of his mind. Started a fight with a cab driver and when the police showed up, proceeded to try & fight the officer. Beat him up pretty good too before the officer shot him because he couldn't get away otherwise. Caused quite a ruckus for awhile between people saying the officer shouldn't have shot him and those that said the firefighter shouldn't have attacked the cop. But no riots in the streets and no national guard called in.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 18, 2014 13:12:24 GMT -5
The autopsy is inconclusive- as predicted by Virgil. However, it does refute all witness accounts- and that I suppose is probably more relevant than anything. Six shots may be excessive, but some of the entry wounds may be re-entry wounds, and it should be noted that until we get a look at the clothing, we don't know for sure if the shots were not fired at close range which might indicate a struggle for the gun. The head wound is particularly interesting- was he charging the officer?
Again, we just don't know. We may NEVER know. But we've got that pesky Constitution and the whole innocent until proven guilty thing-- so while the mob is chanting "crucify him" concerning the officer, we still have to give the officer-- the accused-- the benefit of the doubt. And it may well be that there'll never be enough evidence to formally charge him with anything like murder.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 18, 2014 13:17:09 GMT -5
Arent' officers trained to first fire non-lethal shots to disable someone (arm, leg, etc)? Seems that would support the shots to the arm. Then kill shots if the person kept advancing or was fighting with the officer & he had no escape. And there's no gun residue because they haven't tested his clothes yet - they only got the body. There are two adult men who know exactly what happened, and one is dead. It does irritiate me that they keep saying this guy was an unarmed teenager - yes, he may have been unarmed, but he wasn't a little kid. He was a legal adult. Looking at his pics I wouldn't know if he was 18 or 25. Gov Nixon is a joke, honestly. Never been a fan. I hope the national guard can get this mess under control soon. Everyone seems to have lost their damn minds over it. How the hell is looting and rioting supposed to bring about any sort of justice or change? I've got friends there that are teachers & schools are being shut down while this all is going on. DH and his partner do business out there and he's said it's not a great place to be even when this stuff isn't happening. Last year in KC a police officer shot & killed an unarmed firefighter. Both white, so no racial difference to make the national media. But the firefighter was off-duty and celebrating his wedding, drunk out of his mind. Started a fight with a cab driver and when the police showed up, proceeded to try & fight the officer. Beat him up pretty good too before the officer shot him because he couldn't get away otherwise. Caused quite a ruckus for awhile between people saying the officer shouldn't have shot him and those that said the firefighter shouldn't have attacked the cop. But no riots in the streets and no national guard called in. Short answer is, no. Anyone trained to use a firearm is generally trained to aim for the center of mass- the biggest target area. Sniper-like shots made with a pistol that hit the hostage taker right between the eyes, and shooting a gun out of someone's hand are the stuff of fiction. The odd grouping in the arm would, however, seem to support a struggle for the gun. It remains to be seen whether the shots were fired at close range. That'll be very telling. But the next big shoe to drop is going to be the Brown toxicology report...that should be fun.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 18, 2014 13:19:25 GMT -5
There were exit wounds, and there were re-entry wounds, dj. There just weren't any exit wounds on the posterior side of the individual. Agreed. Also, there weren't any entrance wounds on the posterior side - which kind of shoots hell out of the theory that he was shot while running away....unless he runs backwards....which is possible, I guess. It's possible that he fled, was ordered to "freeze" and he turned to surrender, and was shot while raising his arms to the sky? However, all of the witnesses- who may have helped if that were the case, have now discredited themselves-- and that would be a real shame if it allows a guilty man to walk. We underestimate, in our modern, sophisticated society-- the absolute importance of always being truthful.
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 18, 2014 13:19:45 GMT -5
But the next big shoe to drop is going to be the Brown toxicology report...that should be fun. Have you ever seen a Gentle Giant.... on weed?
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 18, 2014 13:19:50 GMT -5
I am so thankful we moved back to where we are in rural Americana. We are so far removed from this stuff its wonderful. We have a murder here once in a blue moon and petty thefts and some druggie crime on druggies. But this place overall is safe. I don't think the 2 o 3 blacks or 3 or 4 Hispanics or the 5 or 6 Asians are going to cause a lot of riots. This from someone who claims people that don't like Obama are racist. Just how many Black, Hispanic, or Asians before you have enough to cause a lot of riots?
White people only riot when their sports team loses.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 13:19:59 GMT -5
This from someone who claims people that don't like Obama are racist. Just how many Black, Hispanic, or Asians before you have enough to cause a lot of riots?
So, only blacks, Hispanics, and Asians riot? It only takes one ringleader to cause a bunch of otherwise peaceful protestors to begin to riot, no matter the race of the gathering. Riot police 101 - get the apparent leader on your side to get control of the crowd. That was my point . Forgot the again.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 18, 2014 13:38:33 GMT -5
Arent' officers trained to first fire non-lethal shots to disable someone (arm, leg, etc)? Seems that would support the shots to the arm. Then kill shots if the person kept advancing or was fighting with the officer & he had no escape. And there's no gun residue because they haven't tested his clothes yet - they only got the body. There are two adult men who know exactly what happened, and one is dead. It does irritiate me that they keep saying this guy was an unarmed teenager - yes, he may have been unarmed, but he wasn't a little kid. He was a legal adult. Looking at his pics I wouldn't know if he was 18 or 25. Gov Nixon is a joke, honestly. Never been a fan. I hope the national guard can get this mess under control soon. Everyone seems to have lost their damn minds over it. How the hell is looting and rioting supposed to bring about any sort of justice or change? I've got friends there that are teachers & schools are being shut down while this all is going on. DH and his partner do business out there and he's said it's not a great place to be even when this stuff isn't happening. Last year in KC a police officer shot & killed an unarmed firefighter. Both white, so no racial difference to make the national media. But the firefighter was off-duty and celebrating his wedding, drunk out of his mind. Started a fight with a cab driver and when the police showed up, proceeded to try & fight the officer. Beat him up pretty good too before the officer shot him because he couldn't get away otherwise. Caused quite a ruckus for awhile between people saying the officer shouldn't have shot him and those that said the firefighter shouldn't have attacked the cop. But no riots in the streets and no national guard called in. Short answer is, no. Anyone trained to use a firearm is generally trained to aim for the center of mass- the biggest target area. Sniper-like shots made with a pistol that hit the hostage taker right between the eyes, and shooting a gun out of someone's hand are the stuff of fiction.The odd grouping in the arm would, however, seem to support a struggle for the gun. It remains to be seen whether the shots were fired at close range. That'll be very telling. But the next big shoe to drop is going to be the Brown toxicology report...that should be fun. Thanks. I really thought their first reaction would be disable first, but know that hitting a moving target isn't easy for someone in a calm situation, let alone something escalated. The stats on cops hitting their targets is amazing. A lot of people assume they hit 100% of the time, which isn't even close. Multiple shots could also explain trying to get the guy to stop if the cop kept missing his target.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 18, 2014 14:56:04 GMT -5
Are you fucking serious? I took ten seconds to make a point and you want to analyze it? Have not seen black people walking through Target with weapons.
Know what the real shitty part of this is- I carry my gun in certain places because of the large population of fucking morons that carry theirs- like Florida. The NRA won- paranoid stupid people can buy whatever dangerous shit they want- so here we are. I arm myself because of other fucking idiots- and Smith and Wesson wins. What a paradise.
I don't speak for Richard, but yes, I am fucking serious. There is a huge difference between those two images. The fact that you may not see it is why we are so far apart in our world views. I agree there are huge differences between the two images. That was my point.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 18, 2014 15:02:49 GMT -5
I still think the investigation has a long way to go, however there's some pretty compelling audio out right now from I witness is at the scene who did not know they were being recorded. I heard it while listening to the Sean Hannity radio program this afternoon, and if I can get ahold of it I'll post it. I am not certain whether or not it has been authenticated or verified as a genuine response of someone at the scene at the time. However on it the person speaking sounds like they are describing the shooting and they state in the recording that the suspect and the officer were quote all over the car the gun went off. Then the suspect broke free and ran the officer gave chase. miss then states that the suspect doubled back in charged the police officer.
if it shakes out that this is an authentic recording of a real witness live at the scene this does not bode well for the alleged victim.
I'm certainly well aware that we're a long way from sorting this all out. I'm also well aware that things like this turn out to be cruel hoaxes. We'll see.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Aug 18, 2014 15:07:44 GMT -5
Agreed. Also, there weren't any entrance wounds on the posterior side - which kind of shoots hell out of the theory that he was shot while running away....unless he runs backwards....which is possible, I guess. It's possible that he fled, was ordered to "freeze" and he turned to surrender, and was shot while raising his arms to the sky? However, all of the witnesses- who may have helped if that were the case, have now discredited themselves-- and that would be a real shame if it allows a guilty man to walk. We underestimate, in our modern, sophisticated society-- the absolute importance of always being truthful. Who has been discredited? At the worst someone that said he was shot in the back just assumed he was hit when he turned around- doesn't mean he wasn't shot at running away- and in fact one of the arm wounds could have come from the back side if you look at where it was. And really the results are consistent- so far with the rest of the statements. What really bothers me is how one shot went in through the top of his head and came out the jaw area- that is going to be tough to explain. Didn't this guy carry a taser?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2014 15:10:15 GMT -5
Agreed. Also, there weren't any entrance wounds on the posterior side - which kind of shoots hell out of the theory that he was shot while running away....unless he runs backwards....which is possible, I guess. Yep. That's why I don't pay much attention to eye-witness accounts. People think they see all sorts of things they don't actually see. Some are traumatized, some are outright lying to cover up the truth, and others just want to be able to say they saw something. eye witness accounts are notoriously bad. evidence is way better.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2014 15:11:44 GMT -5
The autopsy is inconclusive- as predicted by Virgil. However, it does refute all witness accounts- and that I suppose is probably more relevant than anything. Six shots may be excessive, but some of the entry wounds may be re-entry wounds, and it should be noted that until we get a look at the clothing, we don't know for sure if the shots were not fired at close range which might indicate a struggle for the gun. The head wound is particularly interesting- was he charging the officer? Again, we just don't know. We may NEVER know. But we've got that pesky Constitution and the whole innocent until proven guilty thing-- so while the mob is chanting "crucify him" concerning the officer, we still have to give the officer-- the accused-- the benefit of the doubt. And it may well be that there'll never be enough evidence to formally charge him with anything like murder. i am counting 9 wounds on that diagram. that means at least five shots, unless you are a magic bullet kind of guy. we will know a great deal about this, i am imagining.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Aug 18, 2014 15:14:48 GMT -5
Uh oh- the suspect doubled back an attacked the officer? Where have I heard that one before Let me guess- Hannity is 100% defending the cop on this- or am I wrong? I think I would pass on anything Hannity has to say about it and wait to see what the witnesses actualy said in their statements. But I'll give my opinion on what needs to happen- whenever there is evidence or witnesses that contradict what the police version is then it needs to go to either a civilian review board or better a grand jury to determine what the facts are. The shooting of unarmed citizens need to be investigated to the fullest which I have no doubt this will be. We don't just accept whatever the cop says as gospel.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2014 15:20:28 GMT -5
Uh oh- the suspect doubled back an attacked the officer? Where have I heard that one before Let me guess- Hannity is 100% defending the cop on this- or am I wrong? I think I would pass on anything Hannity has to say about it and wait to see what the witnesses actualy said in their statements. But I'll give my opinion on what needs to happen- whenever there is evidence or witnesses that contradict what the police version is then it needs to go to either a civilian review board or better a grand jury to determine what the facts are. The shooting of unarmed citizens need to be investigated to the fullest which I have no doubt this will be. We don't just accept whatever the cop says as gospel. the legal system is utterly stacked against the victim in cases like this. hope everyone realizes this.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 18, 2014 15:25:13 GMT -5
Uh oh- the suspect doubled back an attacked the officer? Where have I heard that one before Probably the same place you heard, "He wasn't doing nothin and the police officer shot him for NO reason."
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 18, 2014 15:26:37 GMT -5
Uh oh- the suspect doubled back an attacked the officer? Where have I heard that one before Let me guess- Hannity is 100% defending the cop on this- or am I wrong? I think I would pass on anything Hannity has to say about it and wait to see what the witnesses actualy said in their statements. But I'll give my opinion on what needs to happen- whenever there is evidence or witnesses that contradict what the police version is then it needs to go to either a civilian review board or better a grand jury to determine what the facts are. The shooting of unarmed citizens need to be investigated to the fullest which I have no doubt this will be. We don't just accept whatever the cop says as gospel. the legal system is utterly stacked against the victim in cases like this. hope everyone realizes this. I don't disagree. Its just very hard for me to see him as a victim rather than a person who just committed a robbery. I hope that, for once, actual truth prevails - whichever way it goes.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 18, 2014 15:31:01 GMT -5
Uh oh- the suspect doubled back an attacked the officer? Where have I heard that one before Let me guess- Hannity is 100% defending the cop on this- or am I wrong? I think I would pass on anything Hannity has to say about it and wait to see what the witnesses actualy said in their statements. But I'll give my opinion on what needs to happen- whenever there is evidence or witnesses that contradict what the police version is then it needs to go to either a civilian review board or better a grand jury to determine what the facts are. The shooting of unarmed citizens need to be investigated to the fullest which I have no doubt this will be. We don't just accept whatever the cop says as gospel. No. He's saying same thing I'm saying. Long way to go.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 18, 2014 15:32:06 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 18, 2014 15:37:07 GMT -5
Uh oh- the suspect doubled back an attacked the officer? Where have I heard that one before Let me guess- Hannity is 100% defending the cop on this- or am I wrong? I think I would pass on anything Hannity has to say about it and wait to see what the witnesses actualy said in their statements. But I'll give my opinion on what needs to happen- whenever there is evidence or witnesses that contradict what the police version is then it needs to go to either a civilian review board or better a grand jury to determine what the facts are. The shooting of unarmed citizens need to be investigated to the fullest which I have no doubt this will be. We don't just accept whatever the cop says as gospel. the legal system is utterly stacked against the victim in cases like this. hope everyone realizes this. I don't disagree with this at all. it's the primary reason for a smaller government. we need fewer and fewer reasons for the average citizen to interact with government. I believe there's a valid point being made about the militarization of the police force. and I'm not a blind defender of the police or one of those quote law and order conservatives. The steadily growing police state where the TSA molestes our children and the IRS targets our assets for political reasons, the EPA is set up to seize our private property, the Bureau of Land Management and the USDA possessed 40 caliber submachine guns does not give me a warm fuzzy not give me a warm fuzzy.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 18, 2014 15:40:52 GMT -5
Thanks. I'm in the field as they say. Can't do my usual research.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 18, 2014 15:45:51 GMT -5
I just read another account, Tenn, that said the other four shots hit him in the arm. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the results that are coming out now. I have an issue with "at least" six times. This was an autopsy. Shouldn't they know EXACTLY how many shots there were? I understand that a shot may enter and exit and it might be difficult, at first glance, to determine which are exit wounds and which are entrance wounds, but these are trained people. "At least" bothers me. Of course, I fully admit I know nothing about this kind of thing so perhaps there is a reason for this. i'm fairly bothered by that autopsy sheet. there are no exit wounds, and this is a very wide spray of bullets. it seems like they couldn't have been fired at a range that would allow positive ID or threat status. but what do i know? We don't have ANY IDEA of the range. The examiner had no access to the clothing. But even if we assume s8me distance- presumably the guy is IN the police officer's vehicle, he escapes and flees, as long as the officer doesn't lose sight of him and is in pursuit- the ID is certain. It doesn't become uncertain who it is after x number of feet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:01:31 GMT -5
Notice your "Second Amendment Supporters" all have their guns pointed towards the ground AND their fingers off the triggers? Notice where your "thug" has his gun pointed? Notice where his finger is? Are you fucking serious? I took ten seconds to make a point and you want to analyze it? Have not seen black people walking through Target with weapons.
Know what the real shitty part of this is- I carry my gun in certain places because of the large population of fucking morons that carry theirs- like Florida. The NRA won- paranoid stupid people can buy whatever dangerous shit they want- so here we are. I arm myself because of other fucking idiots- and Smith and Wesson wins. What a paradise.
Yes. I'm serious. Know how long I took to "analyze" your pictures? Less time than you took to post them. The difference was so apparent it was laughable (and no, skin color had nothing to do with who was the thug and who was the Second Amendment supporter). The "thug" could have been a white guy in that same pose and the "supporters" could have been black (or any other race) for all it would have mattered to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:19:06 GMT -5
Yep. That's why I don't pay much attention to eye-witness accounts. People think they see all sorts of things they don't actually see. Some are traumatized, some are outright lying to cover up the truth, and others just want to be able to say they saw something. eye witness accounts are notoriously bad. evidence is way better. That's pretty much what I said... back on page 2 or 3.
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