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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 18:23:04 GMT -5
I believe in the death penalty... but only in cases of unimpeachable guilt (video tape, confession, et cetera)... BUT... I disagree with "humane" death being the sentence. I think a murderer should die by the same method he/she killed... even if it was gruesome and took a long time. Examples: - If you shoot someone in the head after holding them at gunpoint... you get shot in the head, after a gun is held on you for an indeterminate length of time.
- If you blow up a building, you get put in a building set to be demolished.
- If you kidnap someone and rape them and starve them over several days... you get raped (by a machine... we don't want PEOPLE to have to do that) and starved for several days.
- If you poison someone... you get poisoned.
- If you mow innocent bystanders down with a car... you get run over by a car until you have died from it.
Oh, and no more "20 years on death row" crap... if it's unimpeachable, carry out the sentence sometime within a year or less (preferably no more than a month or two, after ONE appeal).
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Jul 24, 2014 18:24:27 GMT -5
I just read another article about this which claims the IV team leader was a medical doctor. They did not say what kind. So I take it back that they had no medical input. I still say they had no one who knew what he was doing. I dont know who determines what drugs are to be used, whether or not that IV team leader has any input into that or not.
Apparently they used only versed and dilaudid. Then they are surprised that this is what they get.
Smh.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 24, 2014 18:41:40 GMT -5
I believe in the death penalty... but only in cases of unimpeachable guilt (video tape, confession, et cetera)... BUT... I disagree with "humane" death being the sentence. I think a murderer should die by the same method he/she killed... even if it was gruesome and took a long time. Examples: - If you shoot someone in the head after holding them at gunpoint... you get shot in the head, after a gun is held on you for an indeterminate length of time.
- If you blow up a building, you get put in a building set to be demolished.
- If you kidnap someone and rape them and starve them over several days... you get raped (by a machine... we don't want PEOPLE to have to do that) and starved for several days.
- If you poison someone... you get poisoned.
- If you mow innocent bystanders down with a car... you get run over by a car until you have died from it.
Oh, and no more "20 years on death row" crap... if it's unimpeachable, carry out the sentence sometime within a year or less (preferably no more than a month or two, after ONE appeal).
My oh my!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 18:42:25 GMT -5
Yeah... I'm pretty much an "eye for an eye" punishment person...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2014 19:07:13 GMT -5
Sorry, it takes so long and it's so hard to even get deserving criminals the death penalty. it's not for them that we have these procedures in place. it is for everyone OTHER than deserving criminals.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2014 19:08:37 GMT -5
The "patient" was sedated and unaware the whole time. His girlfriend had a restraining order on him for beating her up. He later went to her fathers body shop and killed her father and killed her as she begged for mercy. For some reason, him gasping for a while when unconcious as less than effective drugs killed him, doesn't seem very important in the context of what he was. but it is, if you believe in the constitution. but i understand how you might not.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2014 19:10:45 GMT -5
Guillotine worked for the French. It might be too tempting to line up the politicians instead of the criminals, since you cant always differentiate among them with any degree of certainty. why not liberals and gays, while you are at it? or were you just kidding around?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2014 19:16:08 GMT -5
Only relative to other methods.
Life in prison is much cheaper than all of them- and is just as effective. The only missing element is bloodlust/revenge/etc.
Of course this case turned into torture- and anyone celebrating that is sick in the head. This needs to be fixed- I suggest a moratorium on executions until we grow up and end the practice.
How about a moratorium on murder and rape and so on and so on. Oh wait, that isn't going to happen is it. I can't work up to much sympathy for the John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy's of the world that they had to die rather than spend their lives in prison. this isn't about sympathy. most have none for these bastards. this is about what the state has the right to do. hope that clears things up.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2014 19:17:54 GMT -5
Yeah... I'm pretty much an "eye for an eye" punishment person... there are plenty of countries where you would feel right at home. have you considered moving?
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 24, 2014 19:21:14 GMT -5
How about a moratorium on murder and rape and so on and so on. Oh wait, that isn't going to happen is it. I can't work up to much sympathy for the John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy's of the world that they had to die rather than spend their lives in prison. What does sympathy have to do with anything? It is simply cheaper to lock them up and throw away the key.
But maybe have some sympathy for those on death row that are innocent?
The pro-murder people always throw out the most vile, guilty POS in the system to use as an example of why they should be put down and we need the death penalty, nary a mention of the inevitable conclusion that the government will kill innocent people in the process. That is unacceptable to me. It has nothing to do with sympathy for the truly guilty.
Ok, I'lll give you a LESS vile, guilty POS in the system. He raped and beat a person to death with a hammer. His DNA proved he was the rapist, his bloody fingerprints and palm prints were all over the house and the victims jewelry was found at his house. This happend to a 30+ yr friend of mine. Guess since he didn't murder 15 plus people he isn't a POS.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Jul 24, 2014 20:26:24 GMT -5
Guillotine worked for the French. It might be too tempting to line up the politicians instead of the criminals, since you cant always differentiate among them with any degree of certainty. why not liberals and gays, while you are at it? or were you just kidding around? I guess I should use the snark font more often. Just so you know, on bad days, I have also advocated feeding politicians to the Great Old Ones.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 20:29:19 GMT -5
Yeah... I'm pretty much an "eye for an eye" punishment person... there are plenty of countries where you would feel right at home. have you considered moving? No. Have you?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jul 24, 2014 20:40:49 GMT -5
... For some reason, him gasping for a while when unconcious as less than effective drugs killed him, doesn't seem very important in the context of what he was. The fact that I am firmly against the death penalty has probably something to do with my opinion, but for me the important thing here is what the death penalty says about us, the non-killers, non-child rapist, non-drug pushers etc. Have we actually evolved at all from the time the Romans flocked to the colosseum to see slaves and gladiators get killed in fights to the death with wild animal or each other? We still seem to be pretty bloodthirsty. I think that life w.o. parole is the better approach even in cases where guilt is 100% certain. And it has the side benefit that if the justice system makes a mistake we can undo some of our error (you know the 99.9999% certain s/he is guilty situation only s/he isn't after all). Once a person is dead...
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 24, 2014 20:44:30 GMT -5
@richardintn : I personally don't agree with any of your "eye-for-an-eye" methods of execution - in fact I strongly disagree with them - doesn't that just lower you (or whoever carries out the act) to their level?
Vengeance is sweet (or so they say) but I don't agree with that form of vengeance.
I DO however, agree that the 20 years on death row being fed & housed, while filing appeal after appeal is a travesty.
If a person is convicted without a doubt, and sentenced to death, the verdict should be carried out as hastily as possible - lethal injection is by far the most effective (and quick way) to remove the scum from the planet.
(As a side-note, if you ever want an interesting read, pick up a copy of John Grisham's "The Innocent Man" - it's a non-fiction book (unlike his other court novels) - and a very compelling read.)
It's the true account of a man who committed a horrendous crime/murder and was proven guilty - and wasted the courts and penal system's time over the years going through appeals. In the end, he did get the verdict carried out on him - but what a waste of money to keep this animal housed and fed through the years of his appeals.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 21:01:25 GMT -5
My belief in "eye for an eye" is not an effort to lower us to their standards, but a belief that the punishment should fit the crime (or be even MORE of a deterrent if possible)... as much as it can anyway.
If you think my "death penalty" thoughts are draconian, you should hear how I would punish rapists... If I had my way, rapists would RATHER be put to death.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 24, 2014 21:04:37 GMT -5
I would immediately become anti-death penalty if Richard's 'eye for an eye' desires were ever up for serious state/federal consideration.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 24, 2014 21:10:38 GMT -5
I doubt your "eye-for-an-eye" methods (which you listed) would be any deterrent to to other people willing and capable of carrying out similar acts.
So I don't see what valuable purpose they would have in preventing similar crimes in the future - or what it would prove in the long run.
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 24, 2014 21:24:11 GMT -5
I would immediately become anti-death penalty if Richard's 'eye for an eye' desires were ever up for serious state/federal consideration. Can anybody say Shariah law?
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 24, 2014 21:25:53 GMT -5
I would immediately become anti-death penalty if Richard's 'eye for an eye' desires were ever up for serious state/federal consideration. Can anybody say Shariah law? Richard!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 21:45:39 GMT -5
I would immediately become anti-death penalty if Richard's 'eye for an eye' desires were ever up for serious state/federal consideration. Can anybody say Shariah law? I can... but it's not. So I don't know why that's being asked. Sharia Law is religious law, based on a religion's book of beliefs. Sharia Law is about not only the punishments, but also the laws themselves that are based solely on the beliefs of one religion. Here's a few examples of Sharia Law: Based on the above... are you sure you want to compare "my desire to punish those guilty of murder with a reasonably equal fate" to Sharia Law?
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 24, 2014 21:48:54 GMT -5
Going by the thread title "2 Hours to Die After Lethal Drug Injection" - is that so inhumane? Two hours to put a person to death is probably more humane than the suffering caused to his/her victim(s) or their families. 120 minutes isn't the lifetime sentence survivors/family face - nor is it the 20+ years that might be wasted keeping scum alive and fed with free housing - paid for by the citizens - AND the victim(s).
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 24, 2014 21:53:56 GMT -5
Can anybody say Shariah law? I can... but it's not. So I don't know why that's being asked. Sharia Law is religious law, based on a religion's book of beliefs. Sharia Law is about not only the punishments, but also the laws themselves that are based solely on the beliefs of one religion. Here's a few examples of Sharia Law: Based on the above... are you sure you want to compare "my desire to punish those guilty of murder with a reasonably equal fate" to Sharia Law? You are cherry picking. How about addressing Sharia punishment for comitting crimes likeccutting off hands for stealing. Aren't you a stickler about the U.S. Constitution? The Eighth Ammendment addresses cruel and unusual punishment.
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 24, 2014 21:55:09 GMT -5
Unfortunately, life in prison is not just as effective. It doesn't stop them from killing prison guards. Executing them stops them from killing prison guards. One way is obviously way more effective if your intention is to stop that person from killing others. Is there a rash of murdered prison guards by death row inmates or even lifers I don't know about? I think that is an extremely weak argument for the death penalty. One prison guard killed is too many. What makes a weak argument is needing to have it number in the thousands to matter. What makes a weak argument is trivializing the loss of those people. I'm not arguing for the death penalty. You'll not ever find me doing that since I'm on the fence myself, but as Tenn said, "I reluctantly support it" in some cases. The argument was effectiveness. Life in prison is not as effective as a deterrent to future crimes as the death penalty is. I'm not sure how you can argue with that logic.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 22:18:48 GMT -5
I can... but it's not. So I don't know why that's being asked. Sharia Law is religious law, based on a religion's book of beliefs. Sharia Law is about not only the punishments, but also the laws themselves that are based solely on the beliefs of one religion. Here's a few examples of Sharia Law: Based on the above... are you sure you want to compare "my desire to punish those guilty of murder with a reasonably equal fate" to Sharia Law? Then end result ìs the same-cruel and unusual punishment. Aren't you a stickler about the U.S. Constitution? The Eighth Ammendment addresses cruel and unusual punishment. Yes. I am a stickler. Death by situation the killer used to kill is not "cruel and unusual"... it's "fair and reasonable", especially if the perpetrators knew, ahead of time, that would be the penalty. I don't advocate springing this on anyone after their trial, in secret. I say change the law and then advertise it... like the "use a gun in a crime and get {whatever}" billboards I've seen.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 24, 2014 22:23:55 GMT -5
Then end result ìs the same-cruel and unusual punishment. Aren't you a stickler about the U.S. Constitution? The Eighth Ammendment addresses cruel and unusual punishment. Yes. I am a stickler. Death by situation the killer used to kill is not "cruel and unusual"... it's "fair and reasonable", especially if the perpetrators knew, ahead of time, that would be the penalty. I don't advocate springing this on anyone after their trial, in secret. I say change the law and then advertise it... like the "use a gun in a crime and get {whatever}" billboards I've seen. What ever Richard. You are out there.
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Post by b2r on Jul 24, 2014 22:34:24 GMT -5
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 24, 2014 22:46:58 GMT -5
I lived in the Middle East, in Islamic countries for 20+ years. I'm very familiar with Shariah law. The eye-for-an-eye attitude is deeply ingrained in Shariah law. It's Old Testament stuff, Richard.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 7:44:36 GMT -5
I lived in the Middle East, in Islamic countries for 20+ years. I'm very familiar with Shariah law. The eye-for-an-eye attitude is deeply ingrained in Shariah law. It's Old Testament stuff, Richard. It's also non-religious. Just because it's there (Sharia Law and Old Testament) TOO doesn't make it FROM there.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 25, 2014 9:00:01 GMT -5
there are plenty of countries where you would feel right at home. have you considered moving? No. Have you? no, but i feel right at home in THIS country. do you?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 25, 2014 9:02:02 GMT -5
My belief in "eye for an eye" is not an effort to lower us to their standards, but a belief that the punishment should fit the crime (or be even MORE of a deterrent if possible)... as much as it can anyway. If you think my "death penalty" thoughts are draconian, you should hear how I would punish rapists... If I had my way, rapists would RATHER be put to death. and in your magical system of justice, who would carry out these sentences?
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