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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 3, 2014 16:43:59 GMT -5
Im not surprised. A minority surrounded by those they fear wish to do them harm after being harmed will do anything to protect themselves. totally true, and totally understandable. in feudal societies, the rich have much to fear from the poor. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 3, 2014 16:48:36 GMT -5
dj, we've established your bias zur Judenfrage.
It's really not necessary to keep illustrating it. no, we have established that you don't know shit about me. but please, keep illustrating it. PS- the resort to calling everyone an anti-Semite who criticizes Israel is loathsome. for the record, i am married to a Jew, and my son is Jewish, not that it is any of your g-ddamned business. they are both highly critical of Israel, as well. edit: it is true that the vast majority of Jews support Israel, but it is far from monolithic- and there are very few that would spare them criticism. if you are one, shalom aleichem. may all your dreams be wonderful. |
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 3, 2014 17:11:36 GMT -5
dj, we've established your bias zur Judenfrage.
It's really not necessary to keep illustrating it. no, we have established that you don't know shit about me. but please, keep illustrating it. PS- the resort to calling everyone an anti-Semite who criticizes Israel is loathsome. for the record, i am married to a Jew, and my son is Jewish, not that it is any of your g-ddamned business. they are both highly critical of Israel, as well. edit: it is true that the vast majority of Jews support Israel, but it is far from monolithic- and there are very few that would spare them criticism. if you are one, shalom aleichem. may all your dreams be wonderful. I guess I am missing it....what does "Shalom Aleichem " have to do with your post..?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholem_Aleichem
As far as your wife and son being critical of Israel and being Jewish...for your and the other readers here information, many Israeli Jews..{There are many Israeli's who are not Jewish thus the mention of...20% of the population of , citizens of , are not Jewish..} are also very critical of certain policies of the present government and the PM..besides their criticism of its financial doings...the cost of living..the split between the haves and have nots...especially the Jewish settlements in the West Bank, perceived treatment of the Palastinians as well as the second class treatment of the Israeli Arabs...the country is a booming democracy..with all the noise and disagreements of a Democracy..see our own government...the doings in Washington..unless you feel our political doings in the past few decades are something that the rest of the world should emulate and long for..use as a shining example to admire..
The wall that runs through the country is a abomination...I have seen it..ugliest thing...cutting off the flowing beauty of the landscape and historic hills and valleys..but as far as ugly and a abomination , so wearn't those bombs that were going off almost daily indescriminatory maiming young and old as they sat in coffee houses..restaurants..boarding buses to take citizen home after a day at school or work ...As ugly as the wall is ..it did for the most part stop those bombings...If I was a citizen there ..Jew or Muslem, {Bombs were not discriminatory } methinks I would opt out for the wall..but that's me.
I can go on and on on specifics ...why does the State have to be Jewish ...why does the wall seem to run mostly in potential Palastinian land..if a settlement is ever reached..Do young Israeli soldiers always treat the Arabs on the West bank nicely when they pull duty on patrols and checkpoints..Of course they don't...{they have become institutionalized as much as those they are over seeing..} also young..afraid of confrontation..Have you ever served ..if so, served in a hostile environment..there is a difference you know..ever lost a friend , fellow soldier ...
We can discuss this forever.....for what purpose I don't know why..Fact is..at this stage , Israel is a country that is not going anywhere...if it ever feels that the State is in dire straits and there is no other way..they will not go quietly..There was a reason Ben Guerian wanted atomics and went about the business acquiring them...besides Jews seeming to be quite brilliant in the specific sciences needed to develop..Physics..the history of the people in their relations with non Jews over the past 2000 years..and before..there was the Persians, Babalonians, Egyptians, Philistines..who did I leave out..way before Hitler and his willing helpers..thePoles..French..Austrians..Ukranians....Dutch...Italians..Hungarians, ..all those Baltic States..There were atomics on hard points on their jets during the darkest days of the Yom Kippor war..they wearn't there on a whim...
So I grant you..I too have many criticism of the Israeli government..there are many things I feel they can do better..yet I don't live there..don't know the Arab as they do who have lived next to them all these decades..and as far as criticizing , so too my own government..especially over five decades ago when they said I was needed to stop what would be, in their mind, the domino theory from happening..{they were wrong and they payed little heed to this very p off citizen..}
Point is..Israel is going nowhere ....Arabs decendents of those who lived there once are not going to be let back in...continued poor leadership of their, Palastinians, leaders will continue to leave them in dire straits and when you look at the middle east today...there are few good spots, IMHO, shining through...very dangerouse place...probably never been more dangerouse...so Palastinian / Israel back and forth...just a blip on the screen right now...IMHO of course.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 3, 2014 17:18:18 GMT -5
no, we have established that you don't know shit about me. but please, keep illustrating it. PS- the resort to calling everyone an anti-Semite who criticizes Israel is loathsome. for the record, i am married to a Jew, and my son is Jewish, not that it is any of your g-ddamned business. they are both highly critical of Israel, as well. edit: it is true that the vast majority of Jews support Israel, but it is far from monolithic- and there are very few that would spare them criticism. if you are one, shalom aleichem. may all your dreams be wonderful. I guess I am missing it....what does "Shalom Aleichem " have to do with your post..?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholem_Aleichem
thought it meant "may peace be upon you". wrong? i don't speak hebrew, but i hear it used as a greeting/blessing often. |
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 3, 2014 17:56:57 GMT -5
thought it meant "may peace be upon you". wrong? i don't speak hebrew, but i hear it used as a greeting/blessing often. Nope..."Shalom " itself.....used in a greeting as well as a good bye...Aleichem was a brilliant writer...Fiddler and so much more from the Yiddish theater and writings..thus the link above for those who might be interested...
www.therefinersfire.org/meaning_of_shalom.htm
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 3, 2014 18:21:55 GMT -5
thought it meant "may peace be upon you". wrong? i don't speak hebrew, but i hear it used as a greeting/blessing often. Nope..."Shalom " itself.....used in a greeting as well as a good bye...Aleichem was a brilliant writer...Fiddler and so much more from the Yiddish theater and writings..thus the link above for those who might be interested...
www.therefinersfire.org/meaning_of_shalom.htm
i think that Shalom Aleichem is his pen name. his actual name is Rabinovich. i am pretty sure "shalom" just means PEACE. i think that "aleichem" means "be upon you", or "for you", or "to you". but again, correct me if i am wrong. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 3, 2014 18:33:53 GMT -5
thought it meant "may peace be upon you". wrong? i don't speak hebrew, but i hear it used as a greeting/blessing often. Nope..."Shalom " itself.....used in a greeting as well as a good bye...Aleichem was a brilliant writer...Fiddler and so much more from the Yiddish theater and writings..thus the link above for those who might be interested...
www.therefinersfire.org/meaning_of_shalom.htm
ok, i will just use shalom from now on. but like i say, i have heard it used as a greeting. whatevea. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 3, 2014 18:41:19 GMT -5
no, we have established that you don't know shit about me. but please, keep illustrating it. PS- the resort to calling everyone an anti-Semite who criticizes Israel is loathsome. for the record, i am married to a Jew, and my son is Jewish, not that it is any of your g-ddamned business. they are both highly critical of Israel, as well. edit: it is true that the vast majority of Jews support Israel, but it is far from monolithic- and there are very few that would spare them criticism. if you are one, shalom aleichem. may all your dreams be wonderful. I guess I am missing it....what does "Shalom Aleichem " have to do with your post..?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholem_Aleichem
As far as your wife and son being critical of Israel and being Jewish...for your and the other readers here information, many Israeli Jews..{There are many Israeli's who are not Jewish thus the mention of...20% of the population of , citizens of , are not Jewish..} are also very critical of certain policies of the present government and the PM..besides their criticism of its financial doings...the cost of living..the split between the haves and have nots...especially the Jewish settlements in the West Bank, perceived treatment of the Palastinians as well as the second class treatment of the Israeli Arabs...the country is a booming democracy..with all the noise and disagreements of a Democracy..see our own government...the doings in Washington..unless you feel our political doings in the past few decades are something that the rest of the world should emulate and long for..use as a shining example to admire..
The wall that runs through the country is a abomination...I have seen it..ugliest thing...cutting off the flowing beauty of the landscape and historic hills and valleys..but as far as ugly and a abomination , so wearn't those bombs that were going off almost daily indescriminatory maiming young and old as they sat in coffee houses..restaurants..boarding buses to take citizen home after a day at school or work ...As ugly as the wall is ..it did for the most part stop those bombings...If I was a citizen there ..Jew or Muslem, {Bombs were not discriminatory } methinks I would opt out for the wall..but that's me.
I can go on and on on specifics ...why does the State have to be Jewish ...why does the wall seem to run mostly in potential Palastinian land..if a settlement is ever reached..Do young Israeli soldiers always treat the Arabs on the West bank nicely when they pull duty on patrols and checkpoints..Of course they don't...{they have become institutionalized as much as those they are over seeing..} also young..afraid of confrontation..Have you ever served ..if so, served in a hostile environment..there is a difference you know..ever lost a friend , fellow soldier ...
We can discuss this forever.....for what purpose I don't know why..Fact is..at this stage , Israel is a country that is not going anywhere...if it ever feels that the State is in dire straits and there is no other way..they will not go quietly..There was a reason Ben Guerian wanted atomics and went about the business acquiring them...besides Jews seeming to be quite brilliant in the specific sciences needed to develop..Physics..the history of the people in their relations with non Jews over the past 2000 years..and before..there was the Persians, Babalonians, Egyptians, Philistines..who did I leave out..way before Hitler and his willing helpers..thePoles..French..Austrians..Ukranians....Dutch...Italians..Hungarians, ..all those Baltic States..There were atomics on hard points on their jets during the darkest days of the Yom Kippor war..they wearn't there on a whim...
So I grant you..I too have many criticism of the Israeli government..there are many things I feel they can do better..yet I don't live there..don't know the Arab as they do who have lived next to them all these decades..and as far as criticizing , so too my own government..especially over five decades ago when they said I was needed to stop what would be, in their mind, the domino theory from happening..{they were wrong and they payed little heed to this very p off citizen..}
Point is..Israel is going nowhere ....Arabs decendents of those who lived there once are not going to be let back in...continued poor leadership of their, Palastinians, leaders will continue to leave them in dire straits and when you look at the middle east today...there are few good spots, IMHO, shining through...very dangerouse place...probably never been more dangerouse...so Palastinian / Israel back and forth...just a blip on the screen right now...IMHO of course.
if it wasn't abundantly clear, i have no interest in seeing Israel disappear. NONE. i would rather they work out their differences with the dispossessed, and build a BETTER future for themselves and their brethren in the middle-East. i don't see that happening. but what angers me is that stateside, ANY critique of Israel, even one as benign as asserting that there are similarities between Botha's Apartheid and the great wall of Israel that are reinforced by the alliance between those two states, are met with accusations of BIGOTRY. i can assure you, i have no bigotry against Jews. none. i don't see them as any different than gentiles.  or Muslims. or followers of any other major religious sect. there are good eggs and bad eggs in every religion (mostly good, in my experience). if i react with hostility to that accusation, it is for the same reason that i reacted with hostility the 10th or so time i was accused of being a traitor for being against the Iraq War. it is possible to love something and be critical of it at the same time. in fact, from MY perspective, it is the highest act of love to risk the approval of those you love by criticizing them for things they are doing wrong, rather than enabling them by keeping my mouth shut in the face of wrongdoing. but i won't be shut up. EVER. |
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 3, 2014 18:44:59 GMT -5
Nope..."Shalom " itself.....used in a greeting as well as a good bye...Aleichem was a brilliant writer...Fiddler and so much more from the Yiddish theater and writings..thus the link above for those who might be interested...
www.therefinersfire.org/meaning_of_shalom.htm
ok, i will just use shalom from now on. but like i say, i have heard it used as a greeting. whatevea. Your use of shalom aleikhem was correct, dj. Shalom, used alone, is the equivalent of "hello" or "goodbye" and means "peace to you". Shalom aleikhem is more personally directed and means "peace to you", as well. It's just less casual. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 4, 2014 10:17:28 GMT -5
ok, i will just use shalom from now on. but like i say, i have heard it used as a greeting. whatevea. Your use of shalom aleikhem was correct, dj. Shalom, used alone, is the equivalent of "hello" or "goodbye" and means "peace to you". Shalom aleikhem is more personally directed and means "peace to you", as well. It's just less casual. my wife told me it means "peace to you, brother". there is no feminine form in hebrew, so it also means "peace to you, sister". |
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 4, 2014 10:22:14 GMT -5
As is most Hebrew and/or Arabic translations, there are usually several translations as their languages don't necessarily translate well to English. Basically, the word shalom, used alone, is more casual.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 4, 2014 11:12:44 GMT -5
As is most Hebrew and/or Arabic translations, there are usually several translations as their languages don't necessarily translate well to English. Basically, the word shalom, used alone, is more casual. my wife actually admonished me about using it (aleichem). she said that there is considerable debate about what makes a proper greeting, and that i am best off just using shalom. i love how much Jews debate this stuff. it is an amusing aspect of the culture/religion. |
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 4, 2014 11:17:28 GMT -5
As is most Hebrew and/or Arabic translations, there are usually several translations as their languages don't necessarily translate well to English. Basically, the word shalom, used alone, is more casual. my wife actually admonished me about using it (aleichem). she said that there is considerable debate about what makes a proper greeting, and that i am best off just using shalom. i love how much Jews debate this stuff. it is an amusing aspect of the culture/religion. It is interesting. I found the same amongst Arabs debating such things. Meanings are important to them and, since the languages don't always translate well to English, they get quite concerned with educating us "furriners" as to "proper use of the language". I learned a lot from them about both Arabic and Hebrew. The average Arab is quite happy to discuss the similarities and doesn't quail at the thought of having something in common with a Jewish person. Since shalom is the less formal greeting, I'd think it would be fine to use. We don't use formal greetings much here in the US so an informal greeting would be expected, I'd think. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 12:01:20 GMT -5
Im not surprised. A minority surrounded by those they fear wish to do them harm after being harmed will do anything to protect themselves. totally true, and totally understandable. in feudal societies, the rich have much to fear from the poor. Kind of explains Soros' and Bloomberg's well funded fascination with gun control. |
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 4, 2014 13:00:21 GMT -5
As is most Hebrew and/or Arabic translations, there are usually several translations as their languages don't necessarily translate well to English. Basically, the word shalom, used alone, is more casual. my wife actually admonished me about using it (aleichem). she said that there is considerable debate about what makes a proper greeting, and that i am best off just using shalom. i love how much Jews debate this stuff. it is an amusing aspect of the culture/religion. Jews love to debate almost everything..LOL..trust me on that one...and to debate with out using ones hands ...never happen... |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 4, 2014 13:25:06 GMT -5
totally true, and totally understandable. in feudal societies, the rich have much to fear from the poor. Kind of explains Soros' and Bloomberg's well funded fascination with gun control. indeed. it explains his involvement with Bush's arms trading company, and a whole host of other things, too. he is fundamentally libertarian. but he is also a rich guy. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 14:19:17 GMT -5
Kind of explains Soros' and Bloomberg's well funded fascination with gun control. indeed. it explains his involvement with Bush's arms trading company, and a whole host of other things, too. he is fundamentally libertarian. but he is also a rich guy. Which one ? |
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 5, 2014 9:17:47 GMT -5
Latest regarding the slain Palastinian youth...it is getting out of hand , both sides....If the reports on youth death are true , and I have no reason to really doubt it...especially with Israeli police unwilling to comment on the report...there is absolutely no excuse for such actions ....hopefully Israelis find and bring the perps to justice.....If they claim unable to identify them...with their reputation and past doings...that would be inexcusable....
www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/autopsy-shows-palestinian-teen-burned-alive-20147512213466184.html |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 5, 2014 11:06:45 GMT -5
indeed. it explains his involvement with Bush's arms trading company, and a whole host of other things, too. he is fundamentally libertarian. but he is also a rich guy. Which one ? i don't know much about Bloomberg. my comment was about Soros. |
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 6, 2014 13:27:25 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 6, 2014 16:30:47 GMT -5
Where's the murderers of the Israelis?
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 6, 2014 19:23:41 GMT -5
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 6, 2014 20:02:49 GMT -5
I repeat, where are the Palestinian murderers? Only goes ONE way, right?
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 6, 2014 20:32:46 GMT -5
It would certainly be great if the Israeli willingness to make these arrests would lead to some serious work on the Palestinians side to find and bring to justice those who killed the other three youth.
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 7, 2014 3:09:45 GMT -5
Remember...though it does get confusing, there are two Palastinian groups here...basically the PLO under Abbas leadership on the West Bank and Hamas faction in Gaza..Hamas is the group Israel is blaming for the murders of the Israeli youths...Israel was attacking Hamas areas on the West Bank in their search for the two suspects of the murders...Hamas and the PLO have just recently signed a agreement to speak as one..healing their differences..{this had been done before though it then would fall apart over some disagreements ..}...Example of, Hamas has been critical of Abbas / PLO on this issue of the murders as Abbas had ordered the PLO security / police forces to cooperate with the Israelis in their hunt for the two suspects and any other leads on the murders..Up to just now Israel had not been going after Hamas areas in Gaza..that seems to have been changed..following recent Debka article..Israel also criticle of Obama , USA seeming happiness over the seemingly cooperation of Hamas and the PLO...Hamas considered a terrorist organization..also considered that by both Europeon forces as well as Egypt as well as Israel..not sure how USA will view the merger now...confusing and changing as it seems anything to do with the Middle East is..
debka.com/article/24076/DEBKAfile-Hamas-flatly-spurns-a-ceasefire-Israeli-air-strikes-kill-7-of-its-operatives-in-Gaza |
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 7, 2014 7:20:31 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 7, 2014 9:09:37 GMT -5
Ok, so whose ever side killed the three Israelis, bring them to justice. But that will never happen. I'm sorry the Israelis felt the need to do so. They worry too much about what the world thinks while the terrorists don't give a shit.
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 7, 2014 9:27:01 GMT -5
Ok, so whose ever side killed the three Israelis, bring them to justice. But that will never happen. I'm sorry the Israelis felt the need to do so. They worry too much about what the world thinks while the terrorists don't give a shit. Terrorists very much care what the world thinks of them. They wish the world to be in terror of them hoping to create a disproportionate reaction. Reasoned response keeps the focus where it should be, on criminals who commit crimes. |
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 7, 2014 9:32:10 GMT -5
Keep bombing the shit out of them until they produce the murderers or turn the whole area into a parking lot.
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 7, 2014 9:48:16 GMT -5
Keep bombing the shit out of them until they produce the murderers or turn the whole area into a parking lot. That is certainly one approach. Use of genocide has a long history. |
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