Say it isn't so-Memphis losing police and fire

[EVT1]

wreg.com/2014/06/20/police-firefighters-leaving-memphis-because-of-budget-cuts/

    Memphis Police Director Tony Armstrong says the city lost one of its best homicide detectives to another city because Memphis is cutting benefits. Armstrong called that one example of what he expects to start seeing.

     “Lots of institutional knowledge, a lot of personal knowledge about the day to day operations of homicide.”

     You’ll hear the same from the Fire Department. The pay cuts and budget cuts are affecting more than just morale, they’re also impacting actual service on the streets, forcing brownouts and keeping trucks off the street

So what-just a bunch of overpaid, unionized government tit suckers anyway- just like the useless teachers. Memphis needs Scott Walker

[EVT1]

One of the funniest things about this- a lot of police are very pro-union- most of them- yet out of their mouths come the same old shit when it comes to anyone else. Dare to screw with the FOP or Teamsters- every cop loves their own union. They just think YOUR union is Socialist.

[cme1201]

MEMPHIS, TN -

(WMC) - Memphis City Council approved the 2015 budget with massive cuts to employee and retiree health insurance.

Employees say they can't survive day-to-day with a 24 percent hike in health insurance premiums. (so being asked to pay 124 instead of 100 is stopping them from living day-to-day)

Retirees say they can't live paying 100 percent of their premiums. (With a pension? what)

Residents get no tax hike. Active employees: no pay raise. The cuts save taxpayers $26 million a year. Employee health care premiums increase 24 percent. Overall savings pay down pension debt and lower the budget gap, while some retirees will now pay 100 percent of their premiums. (actually sounds reasonable)

"We do value our employees. We do want to attract and retain employees, but we've got to do it in a way we can afford it and sustain it," said Little. (even more reasonable)

"The phone has been off the hook today," said Memphis Police Association President Mike Williams. "We don't get paid commensurate with the civilian sector for the job we do. (there is no private police force, so there is no private sector equivalent) So if you don't have the pension, if you don't have health care, why are you here putting your life on the line? (to protect and serve you know the pledge you swear when you are sworn in, I have never heard pension and healthcare must be provided so help me God)"

www.myfoxal.com/story/25809964/memphis-city-budget-vote-fallout-taxpayers-versus-city-employees

[jkapp]

Jun 28, 2014 0:11:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

wreg.com/2014/06/20/police-firefighters-leaving-memphis-because-of-budget-cuts/

    Memphis Police Director Tony Armstrong says the city lost one of its best homicide detectives to another city because Memphis is cutting benefits. Armstrong called that one example of what he expects to start seeing.

     “Lots of institutional knowledge, a lot of personal knowledge about the day to day operations of homicide.”

     You’ll hear the same from the Fire Department. The pay cuts and budget cuts are affecting more than just morale, they’re also impacting actual service on the streets, forcing brownouts and keeping trucks off the street

So what-just a bunch of overpaid, unionized government tit suckers anyway- just like the useless teachers. Memphis needs Scott Walker

Exactly right - and they are leaving to suck a bigger tit...someplace that provides more in pay and benefits, but also has a much higher cost of living to go with it.

Where's the outrage when the poor and lower middle class have to shell out hundreds of dollars in additional taxes each year to pay for golden pay and benefits to the public union employees?  People went apeshit when these poor and lower middle class had to pay $35 for a bank overdraft charge for crying out loud

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2014 7:55:48 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Jun 28, 2014 0:11:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

wreg.com/2014/06/20/police-firefighters-leaving-memphis-because-of-budget-cuts/

    Memphis Police Director Tony Armstrong says the city lost one of its best homicide detectives to another city because Memphis is cutting benefits. Armstrong called that one example of what he expects to start seeing.

     “Lots of institutional knowledge, a lot of personal knowledge about the day to day operations of homicide.”

     You’ll hear the same from the Fire Department. The pay cuts and budget cuts are affecting more than just morale, they’re also impacting actual service on the streets, forcing brownouts and keeping trucks off the street

So what-just a bunch of overpaid, unionized government tit suckers anyway- just like the useless teachers. Memphis needs Scott Walker

Exactly right - and they are leaving to suck a bigger tit...someplace that provides more in pay and benefits, but also has a much higher cost of living to go with it.

Where's the outrage when the poor and lower middle class have to shell out hundreds of dollars in additional taxes each year to pay for golden pay and benefits to the public union employees?  People went apeshit when these poor and lower middle class had to pay $35 for a bank overdraft charge for crying out loud

Well... in all fairness, if you don't have enough in the account to cover that $3 check you wrote... how can you pay that $35 "bounce" fee? Should you write a check for it?

[EVT1]

Jul 1, 2014 7:55:48 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Jun 28, 2014 0:11:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

wreg.com/2014/06/20/police-firefighters-leaving-memphis-because-of-budget-cuts/

    Memphis Police Director Tony Armstrong says the city lost one of its best homicide detectives to another city because Memphis is cutting benefits. Armstrong called that one example of what he expects to start seeing.

     “Lots of institutional knowledge, a lot of personal knowledge about the day to day operations of homicide.”

     You’ll hear the same from the Fire Department. The pay cuts and budget cuts are affecting more than just morale, they’re also impacting actual service on the streets, forcing brownouts and keeping trucks off the street

So what-just a bunch of overpaid, unionized government tit suckers anyway- just like the useless teachers. Memphis needs Scott Walker

Exactly right - and they are leaving to suck a bigger tit...someplace that provides more in pay and benefits, but also has a much higher cost of living to go with it.

Where's the outrage when the poor and lower middle class have to shell out hundreds of dollars in additional taxes each year to pay for golden pay and benefits to the public union employees?  People went apeshit when these poor and lower middle class had to pay $35 for a bank overdraft charge for crying out loud

I was being a little sarcastic.... Walker is a hypocritical douche because he exempted fire and police.

I am of the opinion since the private sector ditched pensions, then why the hell should I pay for any of them.  Don't cut anyone off, pay what is due, and transition to whatever bullshit replacement they want.

And to be honest- some of these cops and firefighters are soaking the public. 

What I will also say is that people took government jobs in the first place because of the benefits- the private sector usually paid more.  So now I guess we will see what happens- either they will have to raise pay or lower standards.  The police in Memphis did that a long time ago- waivers left and right- even had a few ex-felons on the job.  So what's next?  Are they going to hire people too fat to chase anyone or too stupid to pass their already weak bar for education? 

[frankq]

Did any of you guys actually read the story of listen to the report? Not one word was said about unions. So is anyone who is union affiliated anywhere, even a private union, just a piece of shit?

And to be honest- some of these cops and firefighters are soaking the public.

Source and footnotes please.

Here, never mind. Let me help you. Here's the gist of about 8200 jobs. Yeah, I paged through lots of stuff...

According to the city records, Sergeants look like they're making about $55-$56k. Lots of officers at around $35-$38K up into the $40's. Paramedic/firefighters with lots of experience around $52k. Lots in the low $40's. City office workers under $30k. Accountants and financial analysts about $52k. Fire Department Lieutenants $59-$61K. Doesn't look like the rank and file is screwing anyone to me. I guess where you guys live you pay cops ......what $13/hour? It doesn't look like any kind of serious money kicks in until you get to the city administrators....Fire Chiefs at $86k. City Engineer $81K. City attorneys about $88k. Admin guys at $100k and over.

Nice to see the judges at $130k and the mayor at $163K.

Parks and Rec at $12/hr.... Yeah....those rank and file union workers are really screwing the city......Bastards. $20-$25/hr for a fucking cop or fireman? Why the audacity. Just to come running when shit hits the fan and risk their hides? Why those criminal sons-o-bitches........lot of nerve to ask for decent pay and benefits.....I hope they all quit and leave those hillrods alone to put out their own fires and fight their own battles....

www.commercialappeal.com/data/memphissalaries/?appSession=270461774572736&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=1&cpipage=274&CPISortType=&CPIorderBy=

I haven't even checked how much pension they get...Bet it's a lot less than you think....Lets see....

There are often myths that need to be clarified:

Employees do not contribute to their retirement (FALSE)
Employees contribute anywhere between 6.5% and 8% to the retirement fund, depending on when they were hired. Employees contribute more than the City.


Firefighters and Police Officers can retire with a full retirement and insurance after just 12 years (FALSE)
Rank and file employees must have 25 years of service before they can retire or have at least 10 years of service at age 55. Public Safety employees hired after July 1, 2012 must have 25 years of service and be at least the age of 52 before they can retire. Non-Public Safety employees must be 62 before they can retire.


Firefighters and Police Officers make big money from the city when they retire (FALSE)
The average rank and file firefighter who retires with 25 years of service makes around $34,000 per year in retirement. Almost $4,000 of that goes to pay for their city health insurance. (Yes, retirees pay for their health insurance through the city)


Retirees receive a "bonus" check at the end of each year like the City of Detroit's retirement system (FALSE)
Cost of living adjustments for retirees are recommended by the Mayor and approved by the City Council. Typically, they have been between 1% and 3% with the 3% for the retirees who have been retired the longest. These cost of living adjustments are not guaranteed like other municipal retirement systems. The last three years have resulted in a cost of living increase of 1/2 percent each year with no increase granted by the Council in 2013.


Retirees receive their pension and social security from their years of service with the city (FALSE)
City employees do not pay into social security. Their only retirement from the city is their pension. Any employment the person had outside the city for which they paid into social security is slashed when they receive social security benefits from that employment because they are receiving a government pension. The City of Memphis opted out of Social Security many, many years ago.

How does the current pension system affect me, the city taxpayer?
The city budgets money every year for retirement system. The city pays 6% of payroll into the pension fund each year, which is less than what employees pay into the fund. The City (funded by the taxpayer) pays less into the pension fund as they would pay into Social Security if we were under Social Security. Out of nearly 500 public pension plans we researched, we are the only one where the employee pays more into the system than the employer.

www.memphispension.org/myths.html

Wow.....so these guys pay into their pension more than the city does, and don't get Social Security because (and rightly so) they haven't paid in. But the city can't pony up their share which is less than paying into Social Security? Hmmmmmm..............Sorry, but I'm not seeing some union ass-fucking by city employees in this case.......I will give you the retirement at 55 deal. Sound a little young, but then again, how many 60 year old guys are running down felons and running up ladders...I would be interested in knowing what the city execs, mayor and judges get when they retire......

[EVT1]

Funny- so we switched sides?

I support the cops and fire- just saying that some of them are fucking the public- and if it makes you feel better it is normally not the rank and file- it is the administrators-but some do.

But for a job- it is a good deal- I have a LOT of friends in this business- and mainly fire- but they generally have two jobs- they spend the 48 at the firehouse, and then work another job, and what you realize talking to them is that the fire department job is functionally the part-time job in their world. But with a pension. Early.  Not going to see any ads for firefighters needed- there is a backlog of people that want the job-in fact you better know someone.

Look into it- look into double dipping pensions, look into inflating earnings with copious overtime at the end of a career to bump up the payments.  Ands also screw this work 25 or 30 years and out with a pension.  Has not been earned yet IMO.

[busymom]

Just wanted to mention that my Dad had a job through the city, (not Memphis)  and a pension. However, he DID contribute into the fund. It's not like he got something for nothing once he retired. And, he maxed his contribution, which means when he retired, he got a nice monthly check.  I don't know if that's how it works in every large city, but that's the way his pension was set up. 

[frankq]

Jul 3, 2014 22:52:50 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Funny- so we switched sides?

I support the cops and fire- just saying that some of them are fucking the public- and if it makes you feel better it is normally not the rank and file- it is the administrators-but some do.

  But with a pension. Early.  Not going to see any ads for firefighters needed- there is a backlog of people that want the job-in fact you better know someone.

Look into it- look into double dipping pensions, look into inflating earnings with copious overtime at the end of a career to bump up the payments.  Ands also screw this work 25 or 30 years and out with a pension.  Has not been earned yet IMO.

We're not talking about some people in other places who may or may not be "double-dipping". We're talking about THIS situation right now. I have always been a PRIVATE union member. We self-funded our benefits. No tax money. Being from Illinois, I have never been a big fan of public employee unions because they have gotten a little out of hand here and are an embarrassment to union guys like me. You guys take a few words or sentences and run with it calling these people thieves and scammers. These people don't appear to be sucking anyone's tit. They were contributing to their benefits at a higher rate than the city, which wasn't even paying the equivalent of S.S. This is why you guys need to actually read and look at stuff before you rant off about how they've got it so good and are abusing the tax-payers. While public employees in some places abuse the taxpayers (like in Illinois), it is important that we don't paint all state workers with the same brush. Just because people are union members doesn't mean we work for the Anti-Christ. Maybe if more people belonged to unions they wouldn't be bitching about the shit wage- work that they do and how their company works them 36 hours a week to screw them out of benefits as "part-time" workers. Unions allow the average guy to have exactly what his boss and every anti union broadcast media personality has...a contract. No more, no less. No, we haven't switched sides. I have no idea what you mean.

I support the cops and fire- just saying that some of them are fucking the public- and if it makes you feel better it is normally not the rank and file- it is the administrators-but some do.

That's not what you said, but I'm happy I could help you "clarify" your previous posts by supplying some factual information.

But for a job- it is a good deal- I have a LOT of friends in this business- and mainly fire- but they generally have two jobs- they spend the 48 at the firehouse, and then work another job, and what you realize talking to them is that the fire department job is functionally the part-time job in their world.

You said they work 48 hours at the firehouse. Sounds like it's full-time to me. How many hours is full-time in your world? What they want to do in their off hours is their business.

Ands also screw this work 25 or 30 years and out with a pension. Has not been earned yet IMO.

I can't even take a guess as to what this means.....

[EVT1]

Do you get paid to sleep at your job, cookout and watch TV frankq?

Do you really think working a 24 or 48 hour shift at the fire hall is remotely close to actually working those hours at a normal job? It's a great gig if you can get it. 

Walker is a spineless hypocrite- isn't that obvious?

And 25 and out- example:

www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-01/police-chief-s-204-000-pension-shows-how-cities-crashed.html

Among California’s municipal police and fire workers, the average retirement age is 54 after 25 years of service with a monthly pension of $7,059 a month, or $84,708 a year, Norris said

Public-safety employees could retire after working for 30 years, collect 90 percent of their top salaries and take jobs elsewhere while still in their 50s.