A U.S. recovery built on low-paying jobs

[marjar]

Before she lost her job last November as a full-time health department caseworker in Aurora, Ill., Amy Valle was making $23 an hour. Now she's paid $10 an hour as a part-time assistant coordinator in an after-school program.

"From here on out, it will be a struggle," says Valle, 32, whose husband lost his $50,000 government job and still is out of work after a year. "I don't feel like there's any place we can go to get what we were getting paid."

While the unemployment rate dropped to 9 percent in January, from a two-decade peak of 10.1 percent in October 2009, many of the jobs people are now taking don't match the pay, the hours, or the benefits of the 8.75 million positions that vanished in the recession, according to Paul Ashworth, chief U.S. economist at Capital Economics in Toronto.


This may restrain wage and salary growth, limiting gains in consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of the U.S. economy. The good jobs that would trigger a solid boost in spending just don't seem to be there.

"In the last recovery we were adding management jobs at this point, and this time it's disappointing," says Ashworth, who published a report on Jan. 27 about pre- and post-slump employment based on U.S. Labor Dept. data. "The very best jobs, we're still losing those."

Read more: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41781471/ns/business-bloomberg_businessweek/

[SweetVirginia]

Feb 26, 2011 11:26:48 GMT -5 @marjar said:

Before she lost her job last November as a full-time health department caseworker in Aurora, Ill., Amy Valle was making $23 an hour. Now she's paid $10 an hour as a part-time assistant coordinator in an after-school program.

"From here on out, it will be a struggle," says Valle, 32, whose husband lost his $50,000 government job and still is out of work after a year. "I don't feel like there's any place we can go to get what we were getting paid."

While the unemployment rate dropped to 9 percent in January, from a two-decade peak of 10.1 percent in October 2009, many of the jobs people are now taking don't match the pay, the hours, or the benefits of the 8.75 million positions that vanished in the recession, according to Paul Ashworth, chief U.S. economist at Capital Economics in Toronto.


This may restrain wage and salary growth, limiting gains in consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of the U.S. economy. The good jobs that would trigger a solid boost in spending just don't seem to be there.

"In the last recovery we were adding management jobs at this point, and this time it's disappointing," says Ashworth, who published a report on Jan. 27 about pre- and post-slump employment based on U.S. Labor Dept. data. "The very best jobs, we're still losing those."

Read more: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41781471/ns/business-bloomberg_businessweek/

There is only one thing to do, cut all corporate and capital gains taxes.

[handyman2]

Unfortunately this story is being repeated on a daily bases. With the US economy in the shape it is in, tax cuts, stimulus programs etc are going to have little effect for some time.
Americans are going to have to get use to lowering their standard of living. A hard fact to face but inevitable.

[Deleted]

Feb 26, 2011 14:38:52 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

Unfortunately this story is being repeated on a daily bases. With the US economy in the shape it is in, tax cuts, stimulus programs etc are going to have little effect for some time.
Americans are going to have to get use to lowering their standard of living. A hard fact to face but inevitable.

You are so right about this. People don't want to accept this but that is where we are.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 26, 2011 14:38:52 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

Unfortunately this story is being repeated on a daily bases. With the US economy in the shape it is in, tax cuts, stimulus programs etc are going to have little effect for some time.
Americans are going to have to get use to lowering their standard of living. A hard fact to face but inevitable.

Lowering cost of living to where...third world countries , ok 2 steps up?

Think employers...will take advantage of more people looking for work then there are jobs..make higher profits and keep for them selves, stock holders and their workers...and more and more anti union laws on the books...something to look forward to.... ...

Oh, never happen? Ok...LOL

[Deleted]

Feb 26, 2011 19:36:47 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Feb 26, 2011 14:38:52 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

Unfortunately this story is being repeated on a daily bases. With the US economy in the shape it is in, tax cuts, stimulus programs etc are going to have little effect for some time.
Americans are going to have to get use to lowering their standard of living. A hard fact to face but inevitable.

Lowering cost of living to where...third world countries , ok 2 steps up?

Europe. Everybody loves Europe. Right?

[jkapp]

Feb 26, 2011 19:40:26 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Feb 26, 2011 19:36:47 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Lowering cost of living to where...third world countries , ok 2 steps up?

Europe. Everybody loves Europe. Right?

Yep the left wanted us to be like Europe, and now they get their wish (except we don't get the four weeks of vacation)

And, you know, that $10 an hour would go a lot farther in my area if state and local taxes weren't so damn high to pay these over compensated government employees...and what jobs did the two people have in the article again???

[privateinvestor]

A U.S. recovery built on low-paying jobs


Plus you need to factor into the equation the proposed government spending cuts. What effect will these $billions of less government money have on unemployment??

[zipity]

I guess that would depend on your skill set. Yes the competition is pretty intense but there are a lot of job opportunities in high tech right now. I'm not sure about this but I would think being just outside Chicago, Aurora, IL is probably a pretty costly place to live. Perhaps Amy and her husband should think about continuing their educations and/or relocating to an area with a lower cost of living.

[privateinvestor]

Feb 26, 2011 21:22:23 GMT -5 zipity said:

I guess that would depend on your skill set. Yes the competition is pretty intense but there are a lot of job opportunities in high tech right now. I'm not sure about this but I would think being just outside Chicago, Aurora, IL is probably a pretty costly place to live. Perhaps Amy and her husband should think about continuing their educations and/or relocating to an area with a lower cost of living.

Aren't those high tech jobs going to engineers from India, or China who will work for less than the americans both here and abroad?? India is graduating tons more engineers than we do and they have been coming to Silicon Valley CA for the past 20 years and other Hi Tech locales around the country...

[zipity]

Feb 26, 2011 21:26:19 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Aren't those high tech jobs going to engineers from India, or China who will work for less than the americans both here and abroad?? India is graduating tons more engineers than we do and they have been coming to Silicon Valley CA for the past 20 years and other Hi Tech locales around the country...

Most programming jobs are going overseas but there are still huge numbers of jobs done here in the US. Product management, marketing, sales, sales engineering, consulting, professional services, technical support (some of these have moved but many are still here), implementation engineering and IT to support all of the above. H1B visas (thanks to many years of idiots in congress) are putting a lot of downward salary pressure in the IT jobs but there are still a lot to be had. I'm starting a job on Monday for a company that I hadn't heard about 3 months ago. Many US companies haven't refreshed their infrastructure for a number of years now but as the economy recovers the wave is building.

[safeharbor37]

Any genuine recovery will depend on jobs which pay what employees are worth, not what they need. Highly qualified people have a much lower [about half] unemployment rate than marginally qualified people. The socialistic, "From each according to his ability. To each according to his needs. " doesn't really work and, whine as you will, the "good times" you miss will always be temporary ~ or, if we go socialist, nonexistent. The US is the lone capitalist hold out. When we go down, we'll share the fate of the rest of the world.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Wages have been correcting for years, it's time for the government to get out of the way and allow prices to correct.

[henryclay]

Before WWII there was no such thing as a credit card. (look it up) Today an amazing number of college students file bankruptcy between graduation and their first substantial job. I talked with one today. Newly married, baby on the way, and trying to get out from under the carefree days in the dorm living off student loans, scholarship money and credit cards. He said he had always thought you could discharge student loans through bankruptcy.

Isn't it amazing what college students must think of the real world, , , , before they have to become part of it. . . . . . . because it seems the majority of them fall into a state of shock when they finally realize they HAVE to pay their own way in it.

Credit, buying foreign goods instead of American goods, (because they are just as good, , , but cheaper, stupid).

Which should tell us several things: It should tell us that the hourly wage paid for the manufacturing of a product has nothing to do with the quality of it.. . . . . That Americans still refuse to pay other Americans what they think their labor is worth. . . . . and that when the cost of labpr is out of line in one place, cheaper labor will fill in the gap and the market will flourish, becaue the cost of labor is what drives the marketplace.

For several years the marketplace has been driven by the cost of overseas labor.

[privateinvestor]

A U.S. recovery built on low-paying jobs


And higher personal Federal and State Income taxes doesn't make for economic growth in 2011 and 2012...IMHO..

Inflation is also being added to this economic soup and may not be very appetizing...

However if Obama announces he will not seek a second term to concentrate on the high unemployment in this country you could see some changes but that may just be wishful thinking on my part..??

[marjar]

Feb 27, 2011 5:11:44 GMT -5 henryclay said:

Before WWII there was no such thing as a credit card. (look it up) Today an amazing number of college students file bankruptcy between graduation and their first substantial job. I talked with one today. Newly married, baby on the way, and trying to get out from under the carefree days in the dorm living off student loans, scholarship money and credit cards. He said he had always thought you could discharge student loans through bankruptcy.

Isn't it amazing what college students must think of the real world, , , , before they have to become part of it. . . . . . . because it seems the majority of them fall into a state of shock when they finally realize they HAVE to pay their own way in it.

This is the result of students not being taught personal finance. The credit card is not the problem. It is safer to pay by credit than carry cash. Mugging and robberies are not uncommon occurrences on college campuses or while traveling. The problem is buying more than one can afford and carrying a balance that comes with hefty fees and interest rates.

[henryclay]

".......The credit card is not the problem. This is the result of students not being taught personal finance. The problem is buying more than one can afford ............."

Except for your use of the word "buying" I totally agree. Instead of "buying" I would suggest "pilfering in plain sight", and it doesn't stop with students. In the bigger scheme of things I would image students are only a symptom of a much,,,,,,,,,MUCH,,,,,,,,, wider and economically disastrous problem, especially when buying foreign made goods on credit and then reneging on paying for them.

The buyer gets the goods and the foreign source gets it's money, but whose money does the foregoer actually get? The earnings of other Americans that's who. So when we buy foreign goods, (and we have been doing that at an ever increasing pace for better than 50 years), we , , , not any big monolithic or Pavlovian company or corporation, , , , WE are shipping jobs overseas. And when we buy it on credit THE MONEY OTHER AMERICANS WORKED FOR is used to pay the foreign producer.

As if all that wasn't bad enough, when we renege on paying off the credit notes, American companies lose the ability to hire Americans.

And STILL we blame it all on companies and corporations. It's as though nobody ever looks in a mirror any more.

[workpublic]

the repubs are trying to break all but the elite,

so the dems in the elite class are safe?

[billisonboard]

And STILL we blame it all on companies and corporations. It's as though nobody ever looks in a mirror any more.

But don't forget those who are blaming "the government" as well.

[henryclay]

"..............Mugging and robberies are not uncommon occurrences on college campuses or while traveling......"

marjar, I'm on toughtimes' side on this one. Mugging for credit cards is much more lucrative than mugging for cash.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,IMO, that is. Last week a group of out of towners was caught breaking into all the cars on campus, one dorm lot at the time. They were looking for credit cards in the glove box and over the sun visor in each car.

[marjar]

Feb 27, 2011 10:54:32 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Not at all. Minor children need not carry credit cards at all. I never did and there was plenty of crime in the 1970s. This is an example of the full-court press to turn us into debt peons early.

So far as the terrible burden of carrying cash. Well, someone will steal the $10.00 they have on them instead of the card that they can charge thousands to. Since crooks cannot know who has cash available, they will have already attacked you before learning you have no dough. Also, it is not inconceivable that those with access to cash via debit or credit cards could be kidnapped and marched repeatedly to an ATM and this has happened.

I'm going to disagree. Based on personal experience. Sent my kid across country for a summer program when she was a rising junior in high school. Gave her a credit card for the trip and allowed her to keep it upon her return. She's always paid off the balance, every month, has established an excellent credit history, and has learned to manage money. She's always had the security of that line of credit, for emergencies, and learned to use that line of credit while she had parental supervision and guidance. Unlike many of her friends, who acquired their first credit cards in college, and did spend like their was no tomorrow.

[marjar]

Feb 27, 2011 11:03:54 GMT -5 henryclay said:

"..............Mugging and robberies are not uncommon occurrences on college campuses or while traveling......"

marjar, I'm on toughtimes' side on this one. Mugging for credit cards is much more lucrative than mugging for cash.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,IMO, that is. Last week a group of out of towners was caught breaking into all the cars on campus, one dorm lot at the time. They were looking for credit cards in the glove box and over the sun visor in each car.

You can cancel the card if it is stolen, but you can't get the cash back, in most cases.

[marjar]

Feb 27, 2011 11:47:22 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

You also can have a big surprise when junior big-shot runs up a bill to impress his friends. I never forget my indignant fellow teller who sputtered about a big-shot coworker who decided to add Cristal to the shared bill when he and his coworkers were treating themselves to a rare repast. College age students include lots of blowhards.

Since all have computers today, a small local bank account and access by mom, dad and junior to paypal to add cash for emergencies is all that is needed.

So, when do they start learning personal responsibility and the novelty of credit? How do they begin establishing a credit history?

[workpublic]

And STILL we blame it all on companies and corporations. It's as though nobody ever looks in a mirror any more.

But don't forget those who are blaming "the government" as well.

how about the few of us who know it's both?

[marjar]

Feb 27, 2011 11:47:22 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

You also can have a big surprise when junior big-shot runs up a bill to impress his friends. I never forget my indignant fellow teller who sputtered about a big-shot coworker who decided to add Cristal to the shared bill when he and his coworkers were treating themselves to a rare repast. College age students include lots of blowhards.

Since all have computers today, a small local bank account and access by mom, dad and junior to paypal to add cash for emergencies is all that is needed.

Happened to my next door neighbor's kid, twice. Once, after he graduated college. Parents bailed him out, twice. Nice kid, but there was little parental supervision from high school on. They are lucky it wasn't worse and that he was basically a good kid, but an immature one.

Cristal and not Krug? Personally, I like Clicquot.

[marjar]

Feb 27, 2011 12:10:38 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

The best way to learn financial responsibility is with a savings account and a checking account that runs out of funds. After a few years of this, they can stick their toes into deeper waters.

It worked for me and I'm sticking to it! I think kids should start learning financial responsibility in elementary school. No, they don't need a credit card, but they should start learning about money and how to manage it.

[marjar]

Feb 27, 2011 12:15:14 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

You should have seen the warpath my friend who was expected to join in paying for this extravagance went on. She took not a sip, subtracted her "share" from the bill and pointedly asked him if he regularly drank cristal on a teller's salary.

I don't blame her for being upset, nor wondering how he acquired such expensive tastes on a teller's salary.

[henryclay]

"........So, when do they start learning personal responsibility and the novelty of credit? How do they begin establishing a credit history?......."

As related above, some learn from parental supervision. With others,, , like the one filing bankruptcy that I referred to above , , , they don't learn until it the real cost of self-indulgence confronts them. Even then, , , if the country's current economic woes are a measurig stick, , , , too many still don't learn.

I am curious abiout how the government can be blamed for Americans buying foreign made goods and/or our credit woes.

[marjar]

Feb 27, 2011 12:20:04 GMT -5 henryclay said:

"........So, when do they start learning personal responsibility and the novelty of credit? How do they begin establishing a credit history?......."

As related above, some learn from parental supervision. With others,, , like the one filing bankruptcy that I referred to above , , , they don't learn until it the real cost of self-indulgence confronts them. Even then, , , if the country's current economic woes are a measurig stick, , , , too many still don't learn.

I am curious abiout how the government can be blamed for Americans buying foreign made goods and/or our credit woes.

I disagree. The sooner young people learn personal finance, including credit, budgeting, etc.,the better.

When mine was growing up, starting in middle school, if she wanted a 100 dollar pair of shoes, she had to pay half. I considered 50 bucks the top of my limit for good shoes. She wanted more expensive ones, she had to cough up the additional money. Sometimes, she did. Other times, she decided she really didn't "need" them. Started to learn money didn't grow on trees and how to judge need versus want, and when to indulge and when not to indulge. There is nothing wrong with indulging, once in a while, and when one can afford to do so.

[henryclay]

"..........I am curious about how the government can be blamed for Americans buying foreign made goods and/or our credit woes......."

Since our choices of what we buy, (foreign or domestically produced), is for the individual to make, and how we pay for those choices, (cash, check or credit card), is also for the individual to make, where does any governmental responsibility come in?

In fact, I thought that, , where our buying habits were concerned, , , , everybody wanted the government to take a hike and stay out of it.