WWYD? Flag respect

[Iggy aka IG]

Soooo, I was going to let this go, but the behavior continues:

At my friend's local real estate office, the front desk gal (she's around 60-ish) is in charge of taking down the American flag from the front of their building every evening.  One day I'd stopped in to drop something off for my friend.  The gal was walking in front of me, and had just taken down the flag, and, not only was dragging it on the ground, but stepped on it at one point.    So then, the other day when I was driving by (their office is on our main avenue through town), she was dragging it again.  The flag is on a pole, so could simply be wrapped around it, or even the pole held in one hand, the flag gathered in the other.

WWYD?  Call her and say not sure if you know this or not, but it is disrespectful to drag our flag?  Let it go?  Talk to my friend who works there?

[Abby Normal]

I would talk with your friend.  You can say it nicely and just say that you noticed it.  And if you are, then other people can see it to and some of them may have an issue with it.  If she's in real estate- she'll care about the image her office is presenting.

Not everyone is taught respect for the flag, but those that are would be seriously offended.

[sheilaincali]

Jun 5, 2014 10:36:07 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

I would talk with your friend.  You can say it nicely and just say that you noticed it.  And if you are, then other people can see it to and some of them may have an issue with it.  If she's in real estate- she'll care about the image her office is presenting.

Not everyone is taught respect for the flag, but those that are would be seriously offended.

Pretty much exactly what I would recommend.  Word it in that "I'd hate for a potential client to see that and not use you because they were offended". 

[HoneyBBQ]

I would be offended and do something. I respect the flag, and I respect people's rights to stomp on or burn our flag in protest, but there is no excuse for ignorance and stupidity.

[Iggy aka IG]

Jun 5, 2014 10:54:37 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

I would be offended and do something. I respect the flag, and I respect people's rights to stomp on or burn our flag in protest, but there is no excuse for ignorance and stupidity.

I was mortified when she was in front of me and stepped on it.  DH and I have the exact flag (on a pole) in front of our house, and I am so respectful, I ensure my hands are clean, etc., before taking it down.

[Tiny]

Jun 5, 2014 10:54:37 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

I would be offended and do something. I respect the flag, and I respect people's rights to stomp on or burn our flag in protest, but there is no excuse for ignorance and stupidity.

Yeah this.   But, I wouldn't be offended as I wouldn't take the person's ignorance personally.  I would try to allievate their lack of knowledge though...

You can brush up on your flag ettiquette here:
www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html       (I find this page is difficult to read because of the font used and background but that's just me... if it annoys you too I'm sorry. )

www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette.shtml    here's one that easier to read.  And it's got a PDF version for easy printing.

www.vfw.org/Community/Flag-Education/    Here's  one too.

[Abby Normal]

Jun 5, 2014 10:54:37 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

I would be offended and do something. I respect the flag, and I respect people's rights to stomp on or burn our flag in protest, but there is no excuse for ignorance and stupidity.

I would be too, but sometimes you have to PC when pointing out someone's ignorance. 


I've mentioned before that my son is a scout and part of that is showing proper respect for the flag.  I will never forget when he was 8 and we were in the library.  They had a flag on display (hanging from a beam about 2/3 of the way through the room).  It was on the border of the children's area and the main part of the library.  Well DS noticed it was hanging improperly. I told him it was displayed properly if viewed from the other side (the children's area).  "But it should be shown properly from the MAIN area!"  It bothered him so much that he said something to the librarian.  Next time we were in there, they had moved it to the wall.  

[Deleted]

Years ago I got an issue of a French magazine (Paris-Match) that showed U.S. Olympic team members with the American flag. One was pictured sitting on it (the flag was draped over a couch) and others were pictured with it trailing on the ground. With the aid of a French-English dictionary I sent them a polite note explaining our flag etiquette and suggesting that they probably wouldn't picture their own flag similarly. They sent an apologetic response back. I still think the athletes should have known better.

I agree that a polite statement assuming she didn't know better (and that she could offend potential clients) is best.

[Iggy aka IG]

Thanks, all.  I left a voice mail for my friend.  Will keep you posted. 

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2014 11:23:57 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Jun 5, 2014 10:54:37 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

I would be offended and do something. I respect the flag, and I respect people's rights to stomp on or burn our flag in protest, but there is no excuse for ignorance and stupidity.

I would be too, but sometimes you have to PC when pointing out someone's ignorance. 


I've mentioned before that my son is a scout and part of that is showing proper respect for the flag.  I will never forget when he was 8 and we were in the library.  They had a flag on display (hanging from a beam about 2/3 of the way through the room).  It was on the border of the children's area and the main part of the library.  Well DS noticed it was hanging improperly. I told him it was displayed properly if viewed from the other side (the children's area).  "But it should be shown properly from the MAIN area!"  It bothered him so much that he said something to the librarian.  Next time we were in there, they had moved it to the wall.  

My son would be bothered by this too.  He is a scout that has taken part in more flag retirement ceremonies than I can count and has learned how to respect it.  But, not everyone knows the proper etiquette.

[Iggy aka IG]

Hi Ratchets!

Agreed, her behavior isn't intentionally ignorant or malicious.

And, I won't go into what I think about American flag burners in this forum. 

[busymom]

I'm glad you're doing something about it. I'm the daughter & DIL of veterans, & they get DEEPLY offended when they see the flag get disrespected. She may not realize that she's losing customers by her ignorance/laziness.

[Iggy aka IG]

Jun 5, 2014 11:36:30 GMT -5 busymom said:

I'm glad you're doing something about it. I'm the daughter & DIL of veterans, & they get DEEPLY offended when they see the flag get disrespected. She may not realize that she's losing customers by her ignorance/laziness.

Thank you, busy.  I also come from a long line of veterans, three generations (that I know of offhand).  The Marines wanted me when I was a senior in high school, but I was too rebellious... Heck, I still am. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

You said the woman is 60-ish?  It's not some sort of physical problem getting the pole up and down, is it?  (don't even)  My mom is much older than that and could do it, but could there be some physical issues that make it difficult for her?  If the answer is yes, perhaps someone else could take over her duties.  If not...no excuse.  Glad you said something in a non-confrontational manner.  Perhaps she just doesn't realize what she is doing.

[Iggy aka IG]

Jun 5, 2014 11:47:14 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

You said the woman is 60-ish?  It's not some sort of physical problem getting the pole up and down, is it?  (don't even)  My mom is much older than that and could do it, but could there be some physical issues that make it difficult for her?  If the answer is yes, perhaps someone else could take over her duties.  If not...no excuse.  Glad you said something in a non-confrontational manner.  Perhaps she just doesn't realize what she is doing.

Yeah, I thought about that.  She gets the pole off the sign just fine.  And, even if she needed a hand to steady herself up the two steps back into the office (their office is a converted 60+ year old home), she could gather the flag into the one hand carrying the pole, IMO.

[tloonya]

I grew up respecting flag and all, however when it is ok for models to wrap their naked bodies in flag...and some movies are showing flag playing not a very respectful roles - I think it went down to the drain from media usage of the flag.

I would however tell this woman to get a grip and act like she knows that she is holding US flag. Even if it is not a right thing to do - I would tell her.
So she KNOWS if just in case she doesn't.

[alabamagal]

Send a boy scout over to give her a lesson in proper handling of the flag.

Calling your friend was the right thing.  It is a customer service issue.  What she did would turn off a LOT of people

[zibazinski]

I didn't know that a flag flown at night had to have a light on it. A fireman told me. So I took it in at night because I didn't have a light to shine on it.

[Iggy aka IG]

Jun 5, 2014 13:42:26 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I didn't know that a flag flown at night had to have a light on it. A fireman told me. So I took it in at night because I didn't have a light to shine on it.

Good point.  We have a solar light which illuminates our flag on the front of our house at night.  The only time we bring in the flag is during heavy wind or rain storms.

[mcsangel2]

Jun 5, 2014 11:32:30 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

Jun 5, 2014 11:28:10 GMT -5 Iggy aka IG said:

Thanks, all.  I left a voice mail for my friend.  Will keep you posted. 

Cool...it doesn't sound like there was any kind of malice behind it, so probably just laziness or ignorance of the customs as others said.

The flag-burning thing does bother me. I understand that people can be fed up with things, but in my opinion if you do value your country and want to make it better there are avenues of doing that. Print out a bunch of copies of the law that you're ticked off about and burn those or something. To me, burning the flag is making the statement that you hate our country, and if that's the case there are plenty of other options.  I hear Tehran is lovely this time of year and they burn our flag too so there's something in common...

Except in cases of disposing of a flag that's no longer fit to be flown (ragged, dirty, etc). When I learned flag etiquette out of the back of my grade school history book, it indicated that burning in a flame proof container is the only proper way to do it. I wonder if that's changed.

[zibazinski]

Our library takes them and disposes of them properly.

[Tiny]

Jun 5, 2014 13:42:26 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I didn't know that a flag flown at night had to have a light on it. A fireman told me. So I took it in at night because I didn't have a light to shine on it.

LOL!! Yeah, that's pretty common.  Most of the American Flags outside houses in my neighborhood stay out night and day - with no light for at night.    I can't fix all of them so I let it go.... you gotta pick your battles. 

I did once drop  a nice note (with some printed out info to prove I wasn't being 'pissy') between the doors (not suppose to use the mail box!) for a neighbor who had the American Flag displayed incorrectly with a foriegn flag (country of their grandparents' origin).    I have no problems when people celebrate their heritage - just make sure that since you're here in America - the American part of that 'heritage' comes first.       Neighbor very nicely re-arranged how they flew their flags and balance was restored to the Universe. 

 Flag etiquette  isn't common knowledge.

[Iggy aka IG]

Jun 5, 2014 13:51:05 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

Jun 5, 2014 11:32:30 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

Cool...it doesn't sound like there was any kind of malice behind it, so probably just laziness or ignorance of the customs as others said.

The flag-burning thing does bother me. I understand that people can be fed up with things, but in my opinion if you do value your country and want to make it better there are avenues of doing that. Print out a bunch of copies of the law that you're ticked off about and burn those or something. To me, burning the flag is making the statement that you hate our country, and if that's the case there are plenty of other options.  I hear Tehran is lovely this time of year and they burn our flag too so there's something in common...

Except in cases of disposing of a flag that's no longer fit to be flown (ragged, dirty, etc). When I learned flag etiquette out of the back of my grade school history book, it indicated that burning in a flame proof container is the only proper way to do it. I wonder if that's changed.

This part hasn't changed.  Around here, our local American Legion and Boy Scout group has a flag burning ceremony on Flag Day every year at our Veteran's Memorial.

[Iggy aka IG]

So um.  My friend returned my call (I didn't tell her during my voice mail message what it was about) and I told her about my observations on both occasions.  She said she's sure she didn't mean any disrespect, and perhaps it was windy.  I told her we have the same flag at home (on the pole), and how we bring it in.  She said she would talk to her, and said she had to go.  Mmkay...

So then moments later her business partner called me, said my friend had told her I had called about their flag, then asked why don't I mind my own business and hung up on me.

[Chocolate Lover]

Less business for them I suppose. That's too bad.

[bookkeeper]

No good deed goes unpunished! Fear not, people will vote with their dollars and the real estate office can wonder why things are slow.

[Iggy aka IG]

This is a small town, and the last time I saw these two ladies at a networking function last week, we had a pleasant exchange...?

My email to both of them just now:

"Hello Miss XX,

I think there has been a misunderstanding. My call today was not of malicious intent, but of genuine concern if a potential X X client drives by or stops in and sees your flag being dragged and/or stepped on. I understand not everyone is taught flag respect and etiquette.

As a fellow professional to another, how unfortunate you felt the need to call and hang up on me."

I want to ask them why post a flag out front if they don't understand the implications of it......? 

[zibazinski]

Small towns take this stuff very seriously. No way would this fly.

[Iggy aka IG]

Jun 5, 2014 14:27:14 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Small towns take this stuff very seriously. No way would this fly.

Which part, Zib?  Them disrespecting it, or my following up w/ it?

[quince]

I've never had much use for symbols.