Somebody HELP! Morgan Freeman is Fresh Out of Kool-Aid

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/06/04/oscar-winner-morgan-freeman-says-income-inequality-has-nothing-to-do-with-race/

Oscar-winning actor Morgan Freeman said Tuesday that income inequality has nothing to do with race, citing himself as proof.

Appearing on CNN ahead of the season premiere of his Science Channel series, “Through The Wormhole,” Freeman spoke with anchor Don Lemon who asked whether Freeman thought if “race plays a part in wealth distribution.” Freeman didn’t pause for a second, replying: “No. No, I don’t. You and I, we’re proof.”

“Why would race have anything to do with it?” Freeman continued, “Put your mind to what you want to do and go for that. It’s kind of like religion to me, it’s a good excuse for not getting there.”

The CNN anchor pressed, “It seems like every single day I’m talking about race on television, because its in the news cycle … I wanna just go, ‘this is over, can we move on?’”

A smiling Freeman responded, “If you talk about it, it exists. It’s not like it exists and we refuse to talk about it. Making it a bigger issue than it needs to be is the problem here.”

[zibazinski]

He's a fine actor. I don't agree with his politics but it seems its cool to be a liberal if you're an actor. Otherwise you aren't cool and can get shunned by Hollywood.

[Deleted]

Right, if we stop talking about it, the fact that more minorities live in poverty, live in prison, etc... Will just go away  

[zibazinski]

Their choice. No one but themselves keep them from succeeding.

[Deleted]

So, your suggestion is that minorities are inherently lazy? 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 5, 2014 8:33:50 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Their choice. No one but themselves keep them from succeeding.

Correct.  I believe Morgan Freeman summed it up quite well.  Still all this "government help" minorities get does make their choice more difficult.  If you have a minute, and you haven't seen this-- it's well worth the investment of time if you really, truly want to understand the problems.  There's no doubt that racism plays a role in these policies that purportedly "help", so I guess that argument is somewhat valid-- but it's still an individual's choice.

I don't think the video's title is adequate-- it's about so much more than violence.  It's a truly extraordinary expose of the failure of the welfare state.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 5, 2014 8:43:47 GMT -5 oped said:

So, your suggestion is that minorities are inherently lazy? 

Not inherently- but minorities are definitely conditioned to be lazy.  They are indoctrinated with the notion they are victims, and that "wealth redistribution" is the way in which they will get their "fair share" rather than work.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2014 8:33:50 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Their choice. No one but themselves keep them from succeeding.

wait, i am not following either you or Paul.

are you both claiming that race IS the issue, or is NOT?

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2014 8:48:21 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jun 5, 2014 8:43:47 GMT -5 oped said:

So, your suggestion is that minorities are inherently lazy? 

Not inherently- but minorities are definitely conditioned to be lazy. 

i have heard the same argument made about gen-x'ers.  that is not a racial argument, however.  anyone can be conditioned to be lazy.  anyone.

They are indoctrinated with the notion they are victims, and that "wealth redistribution" is the way in which they will get their "fair share" rather than work.

do you think this is what Freeman is saying?

[Deleted]

So we are systemically convincing minorities they are oppressed, not actually oppressing them...gotcha.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2014 9:16:11 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

So we are systemically convincing minorities they are oppressed, not actually oppressing them...gotcha.

oh no.  Paul would never claim that.

what he claims is that they convince THEMSELVES that they are oppressed, and that there is not actually any oppression.

and actually, as nutty as that sounds, it is a really popular idea among elites right now.

[zibazinski]

Sorry, but they do it to themselves. You still hear rumblings of reparations for slavery. Seriously? They get everything thrown at them. Some take advantage. Great. Some don't. Not so great. All our war on poverty did was to contribute to more ghetto mentality.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2014 9:31:01 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Sorry, but they do it to themselves. You still hear rumblings of reparations for slavery. Seriously? They get everything thrown at them. Some take advantage. Great. Some don't. Not so great. All our war on poverty did was to contribute to more ghetto mentality.

no need to apologize.  it is an interesting idea.  but i think it oversimplifies the problem considerably.

moreover, it doesn't really explain anything.  if it is true that ONLY minorities do this, WHY?  in other words: what is the historical context that makes minority groups different than "white males"?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 5, 2014 9:13:52 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 5, 2014 8:33:50 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Their choice. No one but themselves keep them from succeeding.

wait, i am not following either you or Paul.

are you both claiming that race IS the issue, or is NOT?

Race is the issue for those who wish to use race to build dependent constituencies.  Race is VERY important to them.  But for those minorities for whom SUCCESS is important, they have every opportunity that any of us have.  So, it is a choice.  For all of us.  And it's not a choice where race is an obstacle-- unless you make it one.  Which is what the very liberal Morgan Freeman is admitting here.  It's an excuse- but only if one makes it an excuse.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 5, 2014 9:28:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 5, 2014 9:16:11 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

So we are systemically convincing minorities they are oppressed, not actually oppressing them...gotcha.

oh no.  Paul would never claim that.

what he claims is that they convince THEMSELVES that they are oppressed, and that there is not actually any oppression.

and actually, as nutty as that sounds, it is a really popular idea among elites right now.

I'm saying absolutely there is no systemic racism.  Are there pockets?  Yes.  Arguably the most oppressed group right now are middle aged white Christian males.  But I agree with Morgan Freeman, that's no excuse.

[zibazinski]

I'm not sure it is JUST minorities. There's just more of them making a stink and thinking they're entitled to the fruits of others labors. A process brought on by our govt. I'm watching them freak because the illegals are stealing the things the minorities feel should come to them. One of my moms former tenants said it took her almost 5 years to get HOUSING because illegals with more kids got priority over her with JUST FOUR KIDS!!! S somehow she felt that since she had four kids with various baby daddies and no job skill to support them, she should be moved to the front of the line ahead of illegals with more children. I understand her reasoning, even though I think none of them should be entitled. I get making ONE mistake or being left with some kids temporarily but this is a freaking way of life from cradle to grave.

[zibazinski]

But I also see a great black male role model in a restaurant we frequent. He's a dishwasher and he's supporting a child he fathered plus living with a woman who has a child someone else fathered and supporting her. DF has talked to him about where he is planning to go. He's working on a college degree. He's well spoken but he's tattooed all over and now has pierced his ear with some rod thing. Basically unemployable for any management job which is what he aspires to. He can't hide his tattooes even with a long sleeve shirt because he also now has them all over his neck. I suppose he could take the ear thing out but WTF was he thinking? No one told him that doing that to his body will relegate him to factory where he can't be seen, I suppose. I like him very much, he has an incredible work ethic, but where can he go? DF has tried to find him a job but the minute he says he can't be in public, that's it. 

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2014 9:47:05 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jun 5, 2014 9:28:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

oh no.  Paul would never claim that.

what he claims is that they convince THEMSELVES that they are oppressed, and that there is not actually any oppression.

and actually, as nutty as that sounds, it is a really popular idea among elites right now.

I'm saying absolutely there is no systemic racism.  Are there pockets?  Yes.  Arguably the most oppressed group right now are middle aged white Christian males.  But I agree with Morgan Freeman, that's no excuse.

what do you mean by " no systemic racism"?  do you mean that racism is a novel/isolated phenomena in the US?

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2014 9:47:55 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I'm not sure it is JUST minorities. There's just more of them making a stink and thinking they're entitled to the fruits of others labors. .

this phrase is used so often i am not sure what it means. 

i am a CEO.  i make money because my customers pay my company for my goods.  therefore, i am living off the fruits of others labors.  am i entitled to it?  well....sure, if they come to me for my products.

let's say i flip burgers.  let's say i know that the owner of my business restaurant hauls in $200k/year, while his (10) employees make 1/10th of that.  in other words, if the owner were making NOTHING (unreasonable), the wages of the 10 employees could double.  is it UNREASONBLE to expect to get paid 50% more, and for the owner to get 50% less?  is the risk he is taking worth $200k?  is that "entitlement" or just a reasonable expectation?

i think the way that this debate is framed precludes even asking questions like that.  and i think that is totally intentional.

[zibazinski]

Hell no, there's been racism since people were put on this earth. Africans had slaves. How do you think white people got them? Tribes sold them to them and on it went from there. All cultures had slaves.from biblical times and even before then,

[zibazinski]

The manager put his work and money into making that business go. I started a business with my ex. No one gave it to us. We mortgaged my house that I owned before we got married to do it. Had it failed, we'd have lost everything. We busted our asses 24/7 and the first year made a 7k profit. Yes, it skyrocketed from there and we had employees that we paid well and even bonused but no way were they entitled to anything close to what we made because they didnt put the blood, sweat, and tears into it. They put in their 40 hours, which was fine.

[zibazinski]

People conveniently forget about the fact that even the Hebrew slaves in Egypt had slaves before they were enslaved.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2014 10:07:08 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

The manager put his work and money into making that business go.

employees put their work in, too.  some "invest", as well.  the investments are more modest: reasonable clothing, a working car- but they are still investments.  so again: is it UNREASONABLE for an employee to ask to get paid 1/4 of what the boss gets rather than 1/10th?

I started a business with my ex. No one gave it to us. We mortgaged my house that I owned before we got married to do it. Had it failed, we'd have lost everything. We busted our asses 24/7 and the first year made a 7k profit.

coincidental.  i made $7,800 my first year in business.  i squatted in the building and ate out of a big soup kettle that i made beans in once a week.

Yes, it skyrocketed from there and we had employees that we paid well and even bonused but no way were they entitled to anything close to what we made because they didnt put the blood, sweat, and tears into it. They put in their 40 hours, which was fine.

i wasn't asking if it was fine.  i was asking if it is UNREASONABLE for them to expect more.

here, let me put it differently.  owners EXPECT to get paid more because they take more risk.
is it unreasonable for rank and file to EXPECT more, when they are doing all of the productive work?

my position is that rank and file and management HAVE TO be a team.  is it UNREASONABLE for the rank and file to demand to be brought up along with the owners of a business? 

i would cite an interesting statistic, here.  between 1820 and 1970, worker pay (rank and file) kept up with productivity, and owner pay was proportional.  in other words, if worker pay doubled between 1950 and 1970, so did CEO pay.  it has NOT gone that way since then.  do owners DESERVE a greater share of the pie now than they did in 1970?  if so, WHY?

[zibazinski]

Oh, I don't know. We paid for all continuing Ed, for all licenses, and all insurances pertaining to our employees. That doesn't come cheap. They had to generate 3X what they cost us for them to be kept on as employees. We only let a few go because they liked to dawdle. It was pointed out to them what they cost and what they needed to do in order for retaining employment. Some came up to snuff, some didnt. We wished them well and I'm sure, since they were professionals, they found other employment. But I have no regrets for making what we did and paying them what they made. They didnt work for $10 an hour while we made millions, though. Average salary was probably around 40k, with other bennies at the time, probably 50k then. They had to bill 150k a year in billable fees. By the time we were this big, I was back to teaching and my EX netted, so I don't recall gross, 10k a month. So 120k a year. 

[zibazinski]

This was in the decade 1987-1997.

[EVT1]

Jun 5, 2014 9:47:05 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jun 5, 2014 9:28:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

 

I'm saying absolutely there is no systemic racism.  Are there pockets?  Yes.  Arguably the most oppressed group right now are middle aged white Christian males.  But I agree with Morgan Freeman, that's no excuse.

 Arguably by whom- middle aged white Christian males

 Funny.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2014 13:01:40 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Oh, I don't know. We paid for all continuing Ed, for all licenses, and all insurances pertaining to our employees. That doesn't come cheap. They had to generate 3X what they cost us for them to be kept on as employees. We only let a few go because they liked to dawdle. It was pointed out to them what they cost and what they needed to do in order for retaining employment. Some came up to snuff, some didnt. We wished them well and I'm sure, since they were professionals, they found other employment. But I have no regrets for making what we did and paying them what they made. They didnt work for $10 an hour while we made millions, though. Average salary was probably around 40k, with other bennies at the time, probably 50k then. They had to bill 150k a year in billable fees. By the time we were this big, I was back to teaching and my EX netted, so I don't recall gross, 10k a month. So 120k a year. 

i think that is entirely fair.

my least paid employee makes about $30k/year.
my best paid makes almost $100k/year- but he has been with the company (33) years, and he is at the top of his trade.
he has made more than me over half the time i have worked for this company, including the last (3) years.

edit: he never asked me directly for a raise the entire time.  but i recognize what he is worth.

[The Captain]

Jun 5, 2014 16:16:56 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 5, 2014 13:01:40 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Oh, I don't know. We paid for all continuing Ed, for all licenses, and all insurances pertaining to our employees. That doesn't come cheap. They had to generate 3X what they cost us for them to be kept on as employees. We only let a few go because they liked to dawdle. It was pointed out to them what they cost and what they needed to do in order for retaining employment. Some came up to snuff, some didnt. We wished them well and I'm sure, since they were professionals, they found other employment. But I have no regrets for making what we did and paying them what they made. They didnt work for $10 an hour while we made millions, though. Average salary was probably around 40k, with other bennies at the time, probably 50k then. They had to bill 150k a year in billable fees. By the time we were this big, I was back to teaching and my EX netted, so I don't recall gross, 10k a month. So 120k a year. 

i think that is entirely fair.

my least paid employee makes about $30k/year.
my best paid makes almost $100k/year- but he has been with the company (33) years, and he is at the top of his trade.
he has made more than me over half the time i have worked for this company, including the last (3) years.

edit: he never asked me directly for a raise the entire time.  but i recognize what he is worth.

DJ - I've asked this several times, but you've never responded and I suspect I know why.

How much do you pay your employees who do the cleaning?

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2014 16:34:50 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Jun 5, 2014 16:16:56 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think that is entirely fair.

my least paid employee makes about $30k/year.
my best paid makes almost $100k/year- but he has been with the company (33) years, and he is at the top of his trade.
he has made more than me over half the time i have worked for this company, including the last (3) years.

edit: he never asked me directly for a raise the entire time.  but i recognize what he is worth.

DJ - I've asked this several times, but you've never responded and I suspect I know why.

did you suspect it is because i have stated it about half a dozen times?  because that is the reason.

How much do you pay your employees who do the cleaning?

$30k/year + benefits.

is there some point you are trying to make?

[thyme4change]

Being born into the right family is a huge factor.  If you can learn a work ethic, learn to plan ahead, are encouraged to pick the right career and are supported (emotionally, financially, whatever) through the education process to make that career happen, you have a much bigger chance of succeeding.  It doesn't mean that you can't be a success even if you have a family that is nothing like this - of course you can.  We all know examples of that.  But, if you eliminated all the people that have succeeded because they came from a family like that, I suspect the race distribution would not be as pronounced.  

I do feel sometimes that success is like Calvinball and the rich white guys are making up the rules leaving entire pockets of people confused as to how to play the game.