Employers having trouble filling jobs

[giramomma]

My department (at a college) has had a heck of a time hiring college kids to take a 10-15 hour a week job. Pay is above minimum. The job description asked for reasonable skills in using Microsoft Office Products. Most of the resumes they received did not list basic proficiency in Word and PowerPoint. Instead, these applicants highlighted their proficiency with social media (Facebook, Twitter, etc.)

They did 3 rounds of interview, had nearly 20 applicants, and ended up hiring two folks, only one of which was truly competent (ie, a "good" worker). Generally, they like to have 3-4 student workers...

[Phoenix84]

Jun 4, 2014 13:41:52 GMT -5 justme said:

Jun 4, 2014 13:37:19 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

So then, what appeals to you?  What would be your dream job?

I loved doing the event management of sports for a team I was on in college. That was a lot of fun and actually uses a fair number of my finance skills too. But those jobs are extremely hard to come by in good times and I've been mostly out of the loop of things anyways so no current contacts.

I'm ok with sticking in the finance web of the work world - I just am not a fan of being a government employee with the bureaucracy and raises not being based on performance. Being rewarded for doing a good job motivates me to be better - and a pat on the head or a certificate isn't that motivating.  

That's okay, working for the government isn't for everyone.

I always figured bureaucracy is part of any employer of any size.  I don't think you can really escape from it.

The lack of merit based raises never really bothered me much.  You do get regular raises and usually end up making a decent salary.  Plus you get the benefit of a pension, such as it is.  I always work hard and do what I need to do because it's my job, I don't need too much external motivation.

It kind of suits the type of field I'm in anyway.  My profession doesn't lend itself well to "contributing to the bottem line."  In fact, quite the opposite.  I'm here because the laws say I have to be, and companies don't give out the big raises and promotions to those who work in overhead.  Plus, one of my jobs get involved in, and solve problems.

[milee]

Lack of technical knowledge and basic education preventing them from learning.  Our manufacturing equipment requires some basic programming and tech knowledge. If you're reasonably intelligent you can learn it (I have zero tech background and know how to work the equipment), but it's been almost impossible to find anyone with experience working on this type of equipment in our area. So we look for people with good attitude and train them.

[justme]

Jun 4, 2014 14:23:21 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Jun 4, 2014 13:41:52 GMT -5 justme said:

I loved doing the event management of sports for a team I was on in college. That was a lot of fun and actually uses a fair number of my finance skills too. But those jobs are extremely hard to come by in good times and I've been mostly out of the loop of things anyways so no current contacts.

I'm ok with sticking in the finance web of the work world - I just am not a fan of being a government employee with the bureaucracy and raises not being based on performance. Being rewarded for doing a good job motivates me to be better - and a pat on the head or a certificate isn't that motivating.  

That's okay, working for the government isn't for everyone.

I always figured bureaucracy is part of any employer of any size.  I don't think you can really escape from it.

The lack of merit based raises never really bothered me much.  You do get regular raises and usually end up making a decent salary.  Plus you get the benefit of a pension, such as it is.  I always work hard and do what I need to do because it's my job, I don't need too much external motivation.

Yeah, but I'm talking of the bureaucracy between and within the government levels.   You've never seen a pissing match until two branches of the military government get pissed at each other. And if it's a "small" project (like $95M) there's not enough interest in the higher-ups to smack people in the head to stop behaving like children. It's quite astonishing really. 

ETA: I probably will, once I get off my butt about it to begin with, include the government in my applications, but it's not on the top. Can you even retire early with their new pension system? No desire to work to 65 if I can help it.

[Phoenix84]

So which is it?  Do job seekers lack skills, or do employers have unrealistic expectations and are unwlling to train?  Or perhaps both?

Seems like a lot of employers are holding out for people with a significant amount of relevent experience, and are unwilling to train.

Let's take Shelia's job for instance.  If I were to apply there, I have never taken worked for a engineering firm and done a great deal of soil and water sampling.  I have done enviornmental radiation surveys as part of my previous job.  But I don't have certification or direct or significant experience.  Would I be considered?

What about Milee's job?  I have a physics degree, have a basic understanding of electronics and computers, but I'm no technowizard.  Would I be considered?

[Phoenix84]

Looks like for most cases, the minimum retirement age (MRA) for those under FERS is 57.  So (relatively) early retirement would be an option for you.  A "standard" retirement is getting to age 57 and having 30 or more years.

If you want to read more, look here:

www.opm.gov/retirement-services/fers-information/eligibility/ 

However, it's wroth keeping in mind you get a bonus to your pension calculations if you retire after turning 62, which is when I plan on retiring.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think it depends. In my industry funding is REALLY tight right now so a lot of labs are sitting waiting for the perfect technician to come thru the door. Which is understandable since it's way cheaper to continuously rotate/train students than it is to hire a full time tech.   When you only have so much money to go around you want the best bang for your buck.

I also think a lot of people lack skills. I had regular lab practicums with every class I took at Simpson and I did my own research project. So I had a decent grasp on how things would work in a professional research lab and could talk shop.

But I've had a TON of people I've encountered think that working in an academia research lab is like CSI or Mythbusters on the TV. A lot of my friends have stories of people disappearing at lunch and never coming back because work was too "boring".

[milee]

Jun 4, 2014 14:33:55 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

What about Milee's job?  I have a physics degree, have a basic understanding of electronics and computers, but I'm no technowizard.  Would I be considered?

You'd definitely be considered because of the physics degree and understanding of electronics and computers.  On the other hand, that's very overqualified for the job of machine operator, even though they are high-tech machines. 

If we were looking for someone to repair and maintain the machines, that would correspond a little more closely with your educational background (technical bachelor's degree), but without any experience in equipment repair and maintenance, you'd be too lost to even begin to do the work.  Right now, we have DH (electrical engineer) doing most of the machine repair and maintenance and sometimes we pay the big $$$ to get a tech from the manufacturer down to solve tougher problems, but that's only once every few years or so.

[sheilaincali]

Let's take Shelia's job for instance. If I were to apply there, I have never taken worked for a engineering firm and done a great deal of soil and water sampling. I have done enviornmental radiation surveys as part of my previous job. But I don't have certification or direct or significant experience. Would I be considered?

You would absolutely be considered.  They'll happily train you enough to get through this season and then send you off to additional training at their expense.  Due to previous positions DH did have the necessary certifications before he was hired at the competitor's shop.  He stayed with them for 3 years and was recruited by his current employer.  They pay better and have better benefits and advancement potential (as evidenced by his promotion). 

You are an intelligent adult capable of interacting with the project managers, contractors, the state, etc.  You can read and understand basic building codes and requirements and do the necessary paperwork.  Plus I'm assuming you have a clean background and valid driver's license.

[Phoenix84]

Jun 4, 2014 14:50:04 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I think it depends. In my industry funding is REALLY tight right now so a lot of labs are sitting waiting for the perfect technician to come thru the door. Which is understandable since it's way cheaper to continuously rotate/train students than it is to hire a full time tech.   When you only have so much money to go around you want the best bang for your buck.

I also think a lot of people lack skills. I had regular lab practicums with every class I took at Simpson and I did my own research project. So I had a decent grasp on how things would work in a professional research lab and could talk shop.

But I've had a TON of people I've encountered think that working in an academia research lab is like CSI or Mythbusters on the TV. A lot of my friends have stories of people disappearing at lunch and never coming back because work was too "boring".

Based on my own lab experience from college and from observing the scientists and techs who work for my agency, I know that lab work is extremely slow, detailed, and painstakingly methodical.  Heck, I have a counting lab.  Even though it's not for science, just setting up to count swipes is a slow and methodical process.

[Phoenix84]

Jun 4, 2014 15:01:30 GMT -5 sheilaincali said:

Let's take Shelia's job for instance. If I were to apply there, I have never taken worked for a engineering firm and done a great deal of soil and water sampling. I have done enviornmental radiation surveys as part of my previous job. But I don't have certification or direct or significant experience. Would I be considered?

You would absolutely be considered.  They'll happily train you enough to get through this season and then send you off to additional training at their expense.  Due to previous positions DH did have the necessary certifications before he was hired at the competitor's shop.  He stayed with them for 3 years and was recruited by his current employer.  They pay better and have better benefits and advancement potential (as evidenced by his promotion). 

You are an intelligent adult capable of interacting with the project managers, contractors, the state, etc.  You can read and understand basic building codes and requirements and do the necessary paperwork.  Plus I'm assuming you have a clean background and valid driver's license.

I work with regulators all the time.  It's old hat to me.  I also have a clean background (qualified for a security clearance) and valid license.  I'm not an expert at reading building plans.  I have read and come up with basic plans for radiation surveys though, but nothing like a professional engineer.

Too bad I  have prior engagements.   Plus you guys probably couldn't match what I'm making now, at least not for a while.

[sheilaincali]

Probably not. But MN is not a bad place to live. 

As for reading the plans- If the plan says 'vertical rebar every 18 inches" you can visually see the vertical rebar and measure it and say 'Yup, meets the specs' That's about as in depth as they expect you to get in the beginning.

[kittensaver]

Personally, I have LESS THAN ZERO sympathy (except for the kids, of course!) for our public school district being "unable to find qualified teachers." In the last 30 years, I've counted five (that got media attention, there could have been more ) large [district-wide] layoffs due to budget cuts. And because of the rules (LOS, tenure etc), you know the first ones to be let go? All the young teachers coming out of school - the ones with the new energy and enthusiasm, and the most current training and the good ideas.

So they all get let go to "make room" for tenured teachers whose current assignments are projected to close up because of dropping enrollment (ha! ) - when the reality is that while some schools in some areas see a drop in enrollment, others are slammed with more students than they can handle - causing class sizes to soar, year-around block scheduling, horrid trailer classrooms to get hauled onto the grounds and dumped into sports fields, etc etc.

Problem is: most of those long-serving, tenured teachers DON'T want to move or leave their long-time school, so they first use up all their vacation, then they use their "sick time," then they file for disability leave, and then when all that runs out they finally retire or quit. Meanwhile, their teaching spots sit open for months at a time (legally, they have to sit open) - filled by substitute teachers who might or might not even have a degree yet (!) and have "emergency" credentials (issued by the district).

And so the best and the brightest of that new teaching generation gets frustrated and disillusioned at being "used" by the system, and off they go to industry and corporate jobs. Like I said, I've seen it happen publicly 5 times in the last 30 years. No wonder "no one" wants to work for them . It is an employee relations nightmare of their own making. And even more generations of kids are the ones who really lose

(Rant Over) 

[zibazinski]

Jun 4, 2014 14:17:07 GMT -5 giramomma said:

My department (at a college) has had a heck of a time hiring college kids to take a 10-15 hour a week job. Pay is above minimum. The job description asked for reasonable skills in using Microsoft Office Products. Most of the resumes they received did not list basic proficiency in Word and PowerPoint. Instead, these applicants highlighted their proficiency with social media (Facebook, Twitter, etc.)

They did 3 rounds of interview, had nearly 20 applicants, and ended up hiring two folks, only one of which was truly competent (ie, a "good" worker). Generally, they like to have 3-4 student workers...

I don't find it odd that you had trouble at all. Employees with those skills don't take part time jobs. 

[Phoenix84]

Jun 4, 2014 15:23:29 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Jun 4, 2014 14:17:07 GMT -5 giramomma said:

My department (at a college) has had a heck of a time hiring college kids to take a 10-15 hour a week job. Pay is above minimum. The job description asked for reasonable skills in using Microsoft Office Products. Most of the resumes they received did not list basic proficiency in Word and PowerPoint. Instead, these applicants highlighted their proficiency with social media (Facebook, Twitter, etc.)

They did 3 rounds of interview, had nearly 20 applicants, and ended up hiring two folks, only one of which was truly competent (ie, a "good" worker). Generally, they like to have 3-4 student workers...

I don't find it odd that you had trouble at all. Employees with those skills don't take part time jobs. 

Students do.  I worked about 15 hours a week at the library in college.

[Phoenix84]

Thanks for ranting Kittensaver.  I was wondering how colleges can graduate horedes of teachers and yet districts can't find qualified teachers.  The layoff of younger teachers during budget cuts helps explain some of the disconnect.

[zibazinski]

With those skills? I actually was laughing about some job postings wanting people with all those skills and they were paying $10 an hour. Cripe, you make more than that working at Costco!

[Phoenix84]

Jun 4, 2014 15:35:13 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

With those skills? I actually was laughing about some job postings wanting people with all those skills and they were paying $10 an hour. Cripe, you make more than that working at Costco!

I disagree.  "Basic proficciency" in word and powerpoint is not a particularly advanced skill.  I had profficciency in office by the time I was a Junior in high school.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought just about anyone under 50 was pretty much garaunteed to have basic office and power point profficiency (along with typing skills).

[kittensaver]

(One of the proficiencies in Word is how to use the spell-checker in the "Review" tab. Just sayin' . . . . )

 

[The Captain]

I'm wondering if that was done on purpose...

[tskeeter]

Jun 4, 2014 15:13:22 GMT -5 sheilaincali said:

But MN is not a bad place to live. 

 

Only if you view "a little weather" as an opportunity to overcome challenges.  Or think Sorrels and choppers are stylish attire for your date.  Or are pleasantly surprised in May to discover that the girl you've been chasing since late January is slim and curvy in all the right places.  Cause you always thought she was sorta plump. 

Remember, this is where people think sitting in the middle of a frozen lake on a windy, twenty below zero day, over a hole in the ice, is recreation (because the sun is out).    

[zibazinski]

Well, both my kids are WAY under 50. Grew up using computers and have zero profiency in any of that. But they seemed to both feel that was a certification and a highly sought after skill and worth a lot more than salaries suggest but what do I know?

[Phoenix84]

Jun 4, 2014 15:56:42 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

(One of the proficiencies in Word is how to use the spell-checker in the "Review" tab. Just sayin' . . . . )

 

Honestly, there's something weird that goes on with posting at work.  I can't do spell check for some reason, it just doesn't work.  It works from my home PC, so you'll notice much better spelling on my part from home vs. frome work.

Another thing that doesn't work is I can't copy stuff (from word for instance) into the posting box.  So again, spell check there won't work.  Anyways, since posting here is pretty informal, I don't overly concern myself with spelling.

[Phoenix84]

Jun 4, 2014 16:12:11 GMT -5 The Captain said:

I'm wondering if that was done on purpose...

Kinda, I knew there were misspellings, but as I said, couldn't run spell check and didn't feel like taking the time to look up how to spell proficcient.

[Phoenix84]

Jun 4, 2014 15:56:42 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

(One of the proficiencies in Word is how to use the spell-checker in the "Review" tab. Just sayin' . . . . )

 

Do misspellings really bother you that much?

[kittensaver]

Jun 4, 2014 17:42:20 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Jun 4, 2014 15:56:42 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

(One of the proficiencies in Word is how to use the spell-checker in the "Review" tab. Just sayin' . . . . )

 

Do misspellings really bother you that much?

Well I don't know if "bother" is the right word . . . but to be perfectly honest, the judg-y part of me does tend to question the intelligence and/or educational status of persons who are frequent mis-spellers. And even chronically bad spellers who want to present themselves well and/or with intelligence can train themselves to run text through spellcheck, so then I also question the person's ambition or motivation.

I know, I know, judging is bad and I shouldn't do it, but . . . there it is. My confession for today.

Since you asked.

It's the most honest answer I can give you.

[Phoenix84]

Jun 4, 2014 18:13:39 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Jun 4, 2014 17:42:20 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Do misspellings really bother you that much?

Well I don't know if "bother" is the right word . . . but to be perfectly honest, the judg-y part of me does tend to question the intelligence and/or educational status of persons who are frequent mis-spellers. And even chronically bad spellers who want to present themselves well and/or with intelligence can train themselves to run text through spellcheck, so then I also question the person's ambition or motivation.

I know, I know, judging is bad and I shouldn't do it, but . . . there it is. My confession for today.

Since you asked.

It's the most honest answer I can give you.

Well, I appreciate the honest answer, but I don't think I misspell THAT many words.

But just for you, I'll make it more of a priority.  Just don't say I never did anything for you.

After all, your posting experience is my priority.

[kittensaver]

Jun 4, 2014 18:32:50 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Jun 4, 2014 18:13:39 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Well I don't know if "bother" is the right word . . . but to be perfectly honest, the judg-y part of me does tend to question the intelligence and/or educational status of persons who are frequent mis-spellers. And even chronically bad spellers who want to present themselves well and/or with intelligence can train themselves to run text through spellcheck, so then I also question the person's ambition or motivation.

I know, I know, judging is bad and I shouldn't do it, but . . . there it is. My confession for today.

Since you asked.

It's the most honest answer I can give you.

Well, I appreciate the honest answer, but I don't think I misspell THAT many words.

But just for you, I'll make it more of a priority.  Just don't say I never did anything for you.

After all, your posting experience is my priority.

Lol!

[teen persuasion]

Teaching jobs are definitely a case of local supply and demand. We have gotten to know a family that recently moved from SD, and she is a teacher (science).  She has been unable to find a job here in the year they've been here, but her old job in SD is still open and waiting for her. Her DH just interviewed for and got a job in Arizona, and she immediately got a teaching job there, so they're moving.  They can't afford not to, despite the difference in housing costs.

Certain fields are hard to break into, there is little turnover.  My director has said this about librarians: they never retire, and they live forever.  She's 70 and not planning to retire anytime soon, and looks 50s.  But the pay/benefits are poor.  Another local director was recently forced out by a disgruntled Board member, and they posted her job: $41k.

[marvholly]

From my perspective:
Company I worked for for 20 years moved out of the area.
I had 17 years experience running a dept
I had 3 years experience managing vendors - brokered deals that saved the company 30-40%
I was earning >$20/hr

ONLY offers/jobs were for $10/hr - that was barely over unemployment & I did NOT have to spend time/money (gas) commuting. As it happened my Dad's health went into a major decline & I was unable to work for several years. I am now officially retired.