A half-million in student debt?

[justme]

May 23, 2014 15:31:55 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

I understand that the loan companies are the evil villian du jour. But the thing is that people seem to have forgotten their own responsibility for taking out those loans. No one forces you to get one. And except in some rare circumstances, getting a degree from a state school is going to get you just as far as paying ten times as much for one from an ivy league school. It's more about the effort you put in and how you build your career after school. A degree is just the initial launching point.

I could have easily gone to a state school and not taken out the $25k in student loans that I did for a math & sociology degree. I really wish I had now that I look back. But I don't bitch about Sallie Mae ripping me off. I knew what I was signing up for and chose to do it anyway.

Actually, what's crazy is that the Ivys changed their tuition/aid system. Tuition is now based on your family income (give or take a few things) and anyone with an income under $65 pays $0. Even those with larger incomes still only pay a fraction (I think the max paid at Yale was ~$23k/year) and graduate with no loans. 

So it's all these other private colleges that people are graduating with huge loans. Granted, the Ivys have huge endowments that they can do this with. I'm still mad they didn't start this til 2007. 

[Nazgul Girl]

   Well, as Forrest Gump once said, " Stupid is as stupid does, sir ! "   I can't see myself signing for $500,000 in student loans, no matter what was going on with the kids, and unless there is a fabulous trust fund or enormous financial packages offered, I don't believe in sending kids to private universities ( yes, I know that there will be tremendous disagreement ).   NObody ever suffered from graduating with a degree from Caltech or University of Michigan or Pennsylvania or Texas A & M.   They are roughly equivalent of some very fine private universities.   They just cost less.

   I really can't see having your child get a degree in music therapy from a private college, but if that's what they want to sign for, so be it.   Plus, if you're even stupider and take out loans for your DD's wedding after you've indebted yourself for her college tuition, then that's your problem.

   I think that when things are going favorably for people in their careers, they don't believe that they could *ever* be laid off or fired.   The good times will just keep rolling on.   I've had a lot of conversations with people (or their spouses ) over the years who have just been laid off or found out their companies were closing, and they have zero saved.   Zero.   

  Please just don't whine about it later.   It's like me buying a $ 750,000 house with an enormous mortgage, and then stating that I have nothing saved for retirement and that I'm having an awful time !   I don't think that anyone here would feel sorry for me !    I mean, dayyyuuummm.

  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Plus, if you're even stupider and take out loans for your DD's wedding after you've indebted yourself for her college tuition, then that's your problem.



No kidding you think they would have turned around and said "Oh shit, we've got $500k in student loan debt in our names and when is the last time we contributed to our 401(k)s?  Maybe taking out a second mortgage for a wedding isn't a great idea"

There was a story once in our local paper about a couple at the soup kitchen for Thanksgiving. Why were they there? Because they had gotten foreclosed on. How did they get foreclosed on, they took out a massive HELOC for their daughter's wedding and couldn't pay it back.

Morons. Also why wasn't daughter dearest hosting her parents for Thanksgiving? She freaking owes them!

[Deleted]

May 23, 2014 15:38:00 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

. But the thing is that people seem to have forgotten their own responsibility for taking out those loans. No one forces you to get one

I get high school's sell you a bill of goods on financial aid. I'm pretty sure the one guidance counselor at my high school was getting kick backs from Sallie Mae for every student she got to sign up.

The actual loan companies themselves though if you call them will bend over backwards to help you. They do want their money back eventually so it's in their best interests to help you figure things out.

The FA departments at the college you choose are good places to talk to as well. Until you sign the dotted line your aid package is negotiable. Intially it looked like I'd have to take out private loans but I talked to the FA office about my package, they ran my numbers again and got me an UnSub Stafford loan.

Which was a MUCH better deal than Sallie Mae. My unsub loan had an interest rate of 2.5% Sallie Mae was sitting at 18% when I was in school.

and I don't know how they could have done this without fudging some numbers.  eligibility for federal loans is pretty cut and dry.  where schools have options is grants and scholarships

[Bonny]

I think it's really sad that she's a teacher and he's an electrical engineer.

Neither one of them can do math?

I do wonder about our attorney friend and his wife the school teacher. They are paying for one daughter's vet degree at a Caribbean island. Total cost $300k. :oThey refinanced their modest house. They make good money; I'm sure combined they make in excess of $200k/yr.

I teased them a bit about how their daughter will be able to pay them back at the rate of $5/mth but they are convinced that their daughter will make good money as an emergency vet. They could be right and the kid is very good at math just like her dad. So at that point I just

And this summer they are paying for a big, blow-out wedding for their other daughter...

[Deleted]

Not sure why everyone thinks these are extraordinary sized loans. The public U here is over $25K per year to attend and live on campus. Highly competitive. That's $100,000 per kid easy.

What I don't understand is that the guy is an EE and mom is a teacher, so probably $150K/year earnings.

• They had no savings going in when the kids started university - so money problems already
• They assumed they would get financial aid? Because they think they are poor Overspending doesn't qualify you. At any time before attendance they could have done an EFC estimate and understood reality.   Stupid #1 and #2
• The kid says she thought it was free money & didn't understand the impact? To get the federal aid the student has to take on line module about the costs and what taking loans and repayment obligation means. Then you have to take another one when you finish. Who did the tests for her?  Stupid #3
• They paid for a wedding? Because that is a necessary expense. Stupid #4

The article is ridiculous. They are just bad with money. I guess Yahoo won't have readers unless they pander. An article on how expensive tuition is and how much it has risen over the last 10 years should be a compelling story, but I never see them write about that.

[Bonny]

@lillylake,

My DH went to boarding school in the town next to Ipswich. It's part of the MA North Shore and is expensive. I just looked up the average list price of a 3br home and it's $600k.

I'm sure they "feel" poor locally but that kind of annual income makes them "look" rich nationally. They probably have always lived close to hand to mouth with four kids in an expensive area.

[Deleted]

May 23, 2014 20:14:49 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Not sure why everyone thinks these are extraordinary sized loans. The public U here is over $25K per year to attend and live on campus. Highly competitive. That's $100,000 per kid easy.

Those are still huge loans.  The average student loan debt is in the 25-30K range for an undergrad degree.  

[Deleted]

May 23, 2014 20:53:18 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 23, 2014 20:14:49 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Not sure why everyone thinks these are extraordinary sized loans. The public U here is over $25K per year to attend and live on campus. Highly competitive. That's $100,000 per kid easy.

Those are still huge loans.  The average student loan debt is in the 25-30K range for an undergrad degree.  

If your parents earn good money you get $0 in aid. I paid my daughter's education. What her loan was at the end is irrelevant. It still cost over $100K to get the degree. If I hadn't saved for it then there would be $100K of loans at the end.

[Deleted]

May 23, 2014 20:58:05 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

May 23, 2014 20:53:18 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Those are still huge loans.  The average student loan debt is in the 25-30K range for an undergrad degree.  

If your parents earn good money you get $0 in aid. I paid my daughter's education. What her loan was at the end is irrelevant. It still cost over $100K to get the degree. If I hadn't saved for it then there would be $100K of loans at the end.

It sucks when they don't qualify for aid because of the parents making too much, (although most "aid" is loans anyhow), but there are other options.  Cheaper school, community college, working while in school and over the summer to defray some of the cost, maybe even just going part-time while working.  You don't HAVE to borrow the full amount.  And these parents were obviously willing to help, so if they could afford $1700/month in loan payments they should have been able to cash flow a good chunk at a state school. 

[Deleted]

Okay, maybe I'm weird but they sound pretty impressive to me. They already have over $350,000 of student loans paid back and the kids all seemed dedicated to helping pay off the loans asap. I'm not sure exactly why they don't have savings, maybe they will be getting pensions. The teacher should anyway I would think. And if they are the type to work so hard to pay off debt I am going to guess that their home is paid off. I also approve of them sending their kids to private school. Be real, it is a better education and helps the kids make great connections that can help them all through life. It is my understanding that this is what people with generational wealth do and it gives their kids a huge leg up in life. Paying for the wedding might have been going overboard. But that is about the only thing I see to really question.

[Deleted]

May 23, 2014 21:46:49 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Okay, maybe I'm weird but they sound pretty impressive to me. They already have over $350,000 of student loans paid back and the kids all seemed dedicated to helping pay off the loans asap. I'm not sure exactly why they don't have savings, maybe they will be getting pensions. The teacher should anyway I would think. And if they are the type to work so hard to pay off debt I am going to guess that their home is paid off. I also approve of them sending their kids to private school. Be real, it is a better education and helps the kids make great connections that can help them all through life. It is my understanding that this is what people with generational wealth do and it gives their kids a huge leg up in life. Paying for the wedding might have been going overboard. But that is about the only thing I see to really question.

It sounds like it's mortgaged to the hilt.  They almost lost it a few years ago and refinanced recently to pay for the wedding.

[Works4me]

Just re-read it and they must have re-edited it because I did see the $34,000 salary and the wedding-refinance earlier. They also removed one picture of them. Read some of the comments there earlier and all of them were questioning these two issues.

I know that I some times look at things differently but I still wonder how much grades and test scores had to do with where they went. Just because a school is a private school does not mean it is automatically better than a public school - in fact, I would argue that is where a lot of mediocre and below average, even average students have to go at times like these when when so many public universities and colleges are impacted.

[Nazgul Girl]

Yes, the article has been re-edited and some of the red flags for stupidity have been removed ( borrowing to help oldest daughter pay for wedding.   They also took out the part where it stated that the father had lost his job later on.    I think it's to make the couple look less stupid   to the average reader who doesn't have $ 500,000 in educational loans.

I found the following comments under the "view photograph" enlargement:

Robert 1 hour ago 0 0
What foolish foolish parents. Of COURSE the nut for sending 3 kids to private universities is that expensive. People like this are the same people who buy their kids their first car and instead of starting with a beater used car or a Hyundai, the kids choose a BMW, HumVee, or Bentley. Anyone with half a brain would first exhaust all the credits possible at a community college, then get academic scholarships to either the private or state university for as long as possible. And if they lose that, go to a school they can afford for cryin' out loud. Oh, and the kids can hold down at least a part time job to pay as much as they can as they go, and in the summer work full time plus a part time, to get a head start on it. That's how the rest of us do it, who roll their eyes at foolish people like the ones in this story. And it's also fodder for people who don't even want to try. "Look it's too expensive". And lastly, in the real world there isn't an employer on earth who pays someone more because they graduated from a prestigious private university. Dumb dumb dumb parents.

robert
robert 8 hours ago 0 3
"Her youngest daughter, Channing, graduated with a degree in music therapy from a private university". Sorry, but I could not stop laughing when I read this part. Bad enough that they all wanted to go to private universities at the cost of approximately $160k for an undergrad degree; but to then be airhead enough to get a degree in "Music Therapy". The child needs therapy for being so selfish, and the parents need counseling on how to tell a child "NO"...not on my dime times 1.6 million do you get a degree in something that will never support you financially. Get your warm fuzzies some other way.

Skeptical
Skeptical 7 hours ago 0 2
They should be tortured the rest of their life for being so irresponsible. Community College then a state school WHILE working full time should have been what they did. They were extremely permissive and not responsible. No other person feels sorry for these idiots.

Dannid
Dannid 6 hours ago 0 0
In the USA only the rich can get a college education.

All other countries to resist emulating this philosophy if they want an educated society.
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Michael
Michael 7 hours ago 0 1
If the parents are so naive that they allowed themselves to get $500,000 in debt for college degrees, you can't feel too sorry for them. Tell the kids they need to work their way through school if they think they need to go to a private university.

dee
dee 13 hours ago 0 0
In the 1930's 4 of my family members worked to put themselves thru college.
They all had excellent retirements. They were lucky to obtain jobs. in the
'29 to 35 years ! I did not follow their example. I got married!

D. Hurlbert Marble Falls, TX
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[Deleted]

"170k will be alot to pay off - but if she gets to something like 80k within 5 years - it won't be too tough."

I make slightly over 100k and i cannot imagine having to pay a 170k student loan. It is not only the monthly payments but it would be so discouraging to see how little the debt would go down every month.

The parents are idiots for stretching that far. That's a given! But i think the kids are to blame also. What kind of a dream world are these kids living in to expect so much from their parents? Ok they got the student loans but nooo that's not good enough, the kids expect their weddings to be paid for?? If i was one of these kids, i would not let my parents pay for the wedding, especially by refinancing their homes. I am all for helping kids but this is stupidity.

[Deleted]

May 24, 2014 22:10:46 GMT -5 @bunnysmom said:

"170k will be alot to pay off - but if she gets to something like 80k within 5 years - it won't be too tough."

I make slightly over 100k and i cannot imagine having to pay a 170k student loan. It is not only the monthly payments but it would be so discouraging to see how little the debt would go down every month.

The parents are idiots for stretching that far. That's a given! But i think the kids are to blame also. What kind of a dream world are these kids living in to expect so much from their parents? Ok they got the student loans but nooo that's not good enough, the kids expect their weddings to be paid for?? If i was one of these kids, i would not let my parents pay for the wedding, especially by refinancing their homes. I am all for helping kids but this is stupidity.

how do you know that the kid expected her parents to pay?  maybe the parents wanted to pay.  when I got married my parents insisted on paying and actually offered to just give me the cash if I wanted to elope.  I'm not really sure how you 'force' someone to pay for something.

[Nazgul Girl]

   I think that the daughter who was getting married should have said, " Dear Mom and Dad, since you helped me so much during my college years, my DH2B and I will take care of the wedding costs.   We've decided to have the marriage ceremony in the park, and we're having a beer and barbeque reception in the park for the 75 guests we're inviting.   We just want you to enjoy being with us on our special day, and not have to stress out *any further* about your financial burdens. "   

  That's what a mature, grateful offspring would have told them, not guzzled more money from the Bank of Mom and Dad.

[Nazgul Girl]

May 25, 2014 12:29:36 GMT -5 @tbird said:

May 25, 2014 12:24:42 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

   I think that the daughter who was getting married should have said, " Dear Mom and Dad, since you helped me so much during my college years, my DH2B and I will take care of the wedding costs.   We've decided to have the marriage ceremony in the park, and we're having a beer and barbeque reception in the park for the 75 guests we're inviting.   We just want you to enjoy being with us on our special day, and not have to stress out *any further* about your financial burdens. "   

  That's what a mature, grateful offspring would have told them, not guzzled more money from the Bank of Mom and Dad.

we have no idea what conversations took place, or how insistent the parents were - or how much of the financial situation they shared with the DD, if she had any clue how they were paying at all.

This DD is one of the older two who already paid back the 75% of her tuition.

I never saw the article when that info was included - not sure how much this wedding cost or anything.

   Any unwise person who has signed on the dotted line for $ 500k in student loans, plus a house mortgage, plus a possible 2nd mortgage, plus a shaky job situation for the husband, plus, by their own admission, has "nothing" saved for retirement, is a fool if they take on so much as one dollar more in debt.


  So, although I understand that you disagree with me, I think I am advocating the wiser course.    Of course we have no idea of what took place, or whether or not any limits were set on wedding expenses, etc.   But, mom and dad are foolish fools, in my opinion.   They can't add, they have no fear of debt, they've had blinders on about their own precarious finances, and now they're whining.   They use the debt they took on for their daughter's wedding expenses as part of the reason that they're in a position to complain, so I guess I don't know why you think I'm wrong for expressing my opinion on the selfishness of the DD for taking *more* money from them.   

[Deleted]

"how do you know that the kid expected her parents to pay? maybe the parents wanted to pay. when I got married my parents insisted on paying and actually offered to just give me the cash if I wanted to elope. I'm not really sure how you 'force' someone to pay for something."

I don't think the kid forced them to pay. I am saying if i was the kid i wouldnt let them pay especially by refinancing.

[Deleted]

May 25, 2014 13:57:55 GMT -5 @bunnysmom said:

"how do you know that the kid expected her parents to pay? maybe the parents wanted to pay. when I got married my parents insisted on paying and actually offered to just give me the cash if I wanted to elope. I'm not really sure how you 'force' someone to pay for something."

I don't think the kid forced them to pay. I am saying if i was the kid i wouldnt let them pay especially by refinancing.

and in many instances, refusing to accept what your parents are offering is an insult.

didn't you not have to pay daycare for several months because your son was off with your mother in another country?  why were you willing to accept her offer of daycare but someone else should refuse the offer of wedding help?

[Deleted]

"didn't you not have to pay daycare for several months because your son was off with your mother in another country? why were you willing to accept her offer of daycare but someone else should refuse the offer of wedding help?"

Are you serious with this comment? Because it is a dumb comparison. My parents didnt have to mortgage their house to take care of my son. She didnt provide "daycare", she took care of my son. She did that because he was not ready for daycare. It wasn't a financial or any other kind of ruin for my parents. And it was not about money at all because i actually ended up paying pretty much the same with all the trips. So completely unrelated comparison.

There is a difference between helping your kids (and your kids accepting) when you are financially stable and helping/accepting when you are not and you have to borrow against your home. Singlemom you and i had pretty similar situations with our parents providing for us (unless im confusing you with someone else). However, anything my parents have done for me and my sister has slways been within their limits and i or my sister never asked for more because we were aware of their limits. We wouldnt have expected anything more either.

[Nazgul Girl]

   Because wedding help from over-leveraged, practically bankrupt parents is not really "help."   It's more like "hell", and just sucking up more $$ from the parental trough.   

[Deleted]

May 25, 2014 15:26:49 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

   Because wedding help from over-leveraged, practically bankrupt parents is not really "help."   It's more like "hell", and just sucking up more $$ from the parental trough.   

how do you know the kids had any idea about their parent's finances?  My kids have not idea about my income or debts - it's none of their business....and if I offer to help them pay for something and they start asking about my finances, I would tell them to MYOB.

now if the daughter asked for help and the parents said we can't afford it and she said well take out a HELOC that's a different story.  as I said, when I told my parents I was engaged, my mother was the one who told me that her and my dad would give me x dollars and she would be paying for my dress/headpiece/etc.

[Deleted]

May 25, 2014 15:26:15 GMT -5 @bunnysmom said:

"didn't you not have to pay daycare for several months because your son was off with your mother in another country? why were you willing to accept her offer of daycare but someone else should refuse the offer of wedding help?"

Are you serious with this comment? Because it is a dumb comparison. My parents didnt have to mortgage their house to take care of my son. She didnt provide "daycare", she took care of my son. She did that because he was not ready for daycare. It wasn't a financial or any other kind of ruin for my parents. And it was not about money at all because i actually ended up paying pretty much the same with all the trips. So completely unrelated comparison.

There is a difference between helping your kids (and your kids accepting) when you are financially stable and helping/accepting when you are not and you have to borrow against your home. Singlemom you and i had pretty similar situations with our parents providing for us (unless im confusing you with someone else). However, anything my parents have done for me and my sister has slways been within their limits and i or my sister never asked for more because we were aware of their limits. We wouldnt have expected anything more either.

why is it a dumb comparison?  your parents offered to help you with something and you accepted.  if the parents in the article offered to help their daughter pay for her wedding and she accepted, what's different? 

Most kids don't really know their parent's finances and I for one, don't share.

[Deleted]

"why is it a dumb comparison? your parents offered to help you with something and you accepted. if the parents in the article offered to help their daughter pay for her wedding and she accepted, what's different? "

It is dumb because my comment was only because of finances . My parents' help had zero to do with finances and zero impact on their finances or even mine. Their "help" cost them enough to have to refinance their only home. Taking care of my son didn't cause a threat of losing my parents home. I didn't say anything about they shouldnt help kids or kids shouldnt accept. It is about knowing limits.

I am all for parents helping financially or otherwise as long as it is within their capabilities.

[Deleted]

"how do you know the kids had any idea about their parent's finances? "

I guess i have a hard time believing any older kid being so clueless about their parents' financial situation. It is not like my parents sat us down with all their paychecks bank statements but we knew somehow. I am not saying it is not the parents' fault for stretching themselves so far.

[Nazgul Girl]

May 25, 2014 15:31:20 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

May 25, 2014 15:26:49 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

   Because wedding help from over-leveraged, practically bankrupt parents is not really "help."   It's more like "hell", and just sucking up more $$ from the parental trough.   

how do you know the kids had any idea about their parent's finances?  My kids have not idea about my income or debts - it's none of their business....and if I offer to help them pay for something and they start asking about my finances, I would tell them to MYOB.

now if the daughter asked for help and the parents said we can't afford it and she said well take out a HELOC that's a different story.  as I said, when I told my parents I was engaged, my mother was the one who told me that her and my dad would give me x dollars and she would be paying for my dress/headpiece/etc.

 Well, that's you.   I guess if I knew that my mom and dad had signed on the dotted line for $ 125,000 in loans for me, plus my 3 siblings, and I had a vague idea what teachers in a MA school system, plus an engineer earned (considering that I was educated at a fine private university ), I would question the need to take more money from them, that's all.

Now in my case, my parents owned their own house free and clear, my father made around $ 80,000  per year in the 70's, plus what my mother brought in as a kindergarten teacher, and they paid for our wedding at a Lutheran church ( first husband ), cake and punch for the reception for all of the guests in the basement, and a catered dinner ( buffet ) for about 50 of the guests (mostly family ) back at their house.   Plus, they paid for our 4-day honeymoon, since chose the lower-option wedding which included a 4-day honeymoon for us as their wedding gift.   I think they gave us a $100, too.   I paid for my own dress and veil, and my mother and mother-in-law-to-be made the bridesmaid dresses out of dotted swiss material that cost 19 cents per yard.   There was no fear of us breaking the bank, and and Mom and Dad could afford what they offered to do for us.   First husband's parents gave us $500 and a grandfather clock which his father had built.   

[truthbound]

Oh well. i guess they shouldn't have signed off on those loans. They should be forced to pay them back.