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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 8:59:16 GMT -5
Reciprocity is something I never even researched on my own behalf so I'm sure as hell not going to do it for her when she hasn't even asked me for advice
Well, to be fair, researching this would involve Googling "(Her state) college reciprocity" and you're done.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 23, 2014 9:29:21 GMT -5
Can do! Will you PM me your email? I didn't even need to white anything out, the page of my SL statement that includes the balances/repayment terms doesn't have any identifying info. Maybe that can work in my favor one day.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 9:32:17 GMT -5
Another thing (that probably won't carry much weight with her right now) is that I see student loans get overwhelming when both people in a couple have them. I have some married friends and she has 100k and he has 60k. That's a mortgage between them. I read one of those student loan disaster stories that included a young man with massive student loans who was working a McJob and living with his parents; he considered himself pretty much unmarriageable with that debt. Your cousin COULD end up marrying into the Khardashian family but huge student loans could intimidate a "regular guy", especially if he's got his own. They could also make it nearly impossible for her to stay home with kids, if that's something she might want to do.
DDIL came into the marriage with DS with about $10K in student loans from a business school (not college). I was really grateful to hear that was all she had.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 23, 2014 10:27:07 GMT -5
For the record, Mid's student loan statement was the most chilling thing I've read since that bathroom scene in IT.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 23, 2014 10:28:40 GMT -5
what is this letter suppose to be accomplishing? As Firebird now states they aren't close - and she is bemused as to why the cousin didn't ask her? I'm confused on the purpose here?
Just so she knows I'm here and she can talk to me if she wants. After the letter, I'll never ask her about this again. She knows where I am if she wants more help.
Her school will allow deferred enrollment for up to one year. And she doesn't even have to defer if she takes a couple online courses in addition to CC courses, so it's definitely an option.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 10:28:55 GMT -5
I agree that changing school choices isn't practical, but at least FB could have the "what degree will you pursue and how will you support yourself and pay your loans afterwards" discussion. If the cousin changes majors in her junior year, she could be in college even longer catching up on the requirements. Better to start out with a good plan right off the bat.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 23, 2014 10:32:52 GMT -5
I haven't read all the comments - but has anyone suggested MYOB? No, this is YM. Saving the world one penny at a time.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 23, 2014 10:42:17 GMT -5
Normally I would MMOB. But I don't think a letter is out of line in this situation. If she wants to throw it in the trash, that's her right. At least I will have tried.
I tried to be upbeat and positive in the letter and give her a realistic picture of the financial stuff without being a Debbie Downer.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on May 23, 2014 12:07:22 GMT -5
Hi Firebird, I would call her up and ask her if she'd like to go out to lunch and talk about school plans. At lunch, I'd bring up the student loan issue. I wouldn't write her a big old letter telling her her plans are not very sound. (Even though you're totally correct ). It might work out if you are kind and just talk to her face-to-face. Overall, though, I'm pretty sure that she's going to do what she's going to do, no matter what you say. It's nice that you care about the situation, but she doesn't sound like she wants to listen to wisdom.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on May 23, 2014 12:25:07 GMT -5
I agree with not sending a letter. It will sound very judgemental I think. Are you close enough that nasgul's suggestions of a lunch date is possible? How about a girl's day?
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on May 23, 2014 12:35:54 GMT -5
Reciprocity is something I never even researched on my own behalf so I'm sure as hell not going to do it for her when she hasn't even asked me for advice
Well, to be fair, researching this would involve Googling "(Her state) college reciprocity" and you're done. Some schools offer individual deals for students. Especially some schools that are near the state border. At least one in Alabama and one in Florida offer in state tuition to GA students living close to the school. My DD went to a school 2 hours away but across state line. They offered in state tuition to some in my state that were near the state line. But not ours. Didn't matter to her because she got full tuition scholarship.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 23, 2014 12:45:46 GMT -5
I agree with not sending a letter. It will sound very judgemental I think. Are you close enough that nasgul's suggestions of a lunch date is possible? How about a girl's day?
No - as I mentioned, the weekend after this one will be my only chance to see her in the foreseeable future. We're traveling to her state for the graduation. Probably won't have time to see her alone for lunch or even coffee. That's why I think the letter is the only way to go. As I said, she's perfectly at liberty to ignore the whole thing. The letter I wrote came out about 5 pages long. Here's an abridged version of what it says: Dear [Cousin], Yay, you're graduating! Warm fuzzy family memories. Preparing for college can be overwhelming, I was grateful for guidance, so here is some advice if you want it. School does a bad job of prepping kids for finances, and as a result I knew jack about loans when I was your age - what they meant for my future or how much I should take out. This is how I paid for school in 2009 - summary of my costs and how much I took out. Therefore $12.5k/semester sounds reasonable. But if you were to take out loans for the whole thing, it would be $100k. Big loan, very hard. Attached [ midjd's] student loan payment summary so you can see what it might look like. Wow, that would suck. You can probably expect to make $30-35k first year out of school. Sample budget (taken mostly from steph08's post). Student loan payments, especially big ones, don't fit into that budget very well. Even though income will probably grow you want to try to make things easy and manageable for yourself when just starting out. Recommend trying to keep student loans under $30k if you can. Good news is there are plenty of ways to cut costs. You may want to consider the following: -Going to CC / remote classes for two years -Work PT during school / FT during summer -Take as many courses as you can to finish faster -Apply for as many scholarships and grants as you can this summer (good practice for job hunting later) -Keep expenses down -Only take out loans if you can't get the money any other way Realize this can be scary and overwhelming but want to make sure you have financial info that people often wish they would have had when they were younger. Money gives you options. Can do XYZ if you're not shackled to huge loan payments or other major financial obligations. Awesome job getting into college, very excited for you, willing to help in any way I can, text or email anytime if you want to talk more about any of this, rah rah go girl. Love, [Firebird] I tried to maintain a good balance between being positive/optimistic and also giving real info that could help her make better decisions. I definitely don't think I was judgmental. And personally, I would prefer a letter over a face to face conversation in her shoes. It would be tough to take in all this information while talking without taking notes. A letter is at least a jumping off point she can digest in bite size chunks over the summer. Maybe some of it will sink in, maybe not. I don't mind if she doesn't take my advice but I wouldn't feel right about not at least trying.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on May 23, 2014 13:26:22 GMT -5
Firebird, I think that letter is really good. FWIW, I was very much like your cousin when I got of HS. My parents and siblings hadn't gone to college and had no clue. Our HS provided no guidance on paying for college/options so I didn't even know what my choices were. This was pre-internet too so the information that you could get on costs came from college brochures, US News, and telephone calls. I also wanted out of the rural home town I grew up in. I ended up going to a private school across the country and taking out loans. I dropped out after 1 year there (was broke, homesick, and didn't know what I wanted to major in... the major I had come in with was not a career I would be able to do after graduation). When I dropped out, I moved home, enrolled in community college and got a fulltime job while going to school fulltime (I had gotten a fulltime job the second semester at the private school because I realized my part-time work study job wasn't going to cut it). While this was an expensive lesson, it also helped to provide some good lessons. I was more independent (had learned to live on my own, etc), had a better perspective on what things actually cost and it helped me long term (well, the loans didn't but the experience did ), and it lit a fire under my behind to get school done so I could stop paying for it. I guess my advice would be in addition to providing the guidance now, make sure to let her know that what she decides TODAY isn't something she is locked into for the next 4 years. There is no shame in transferring schools or changing things if she realizes later it isn't for her. If she is going to have an issue, better to pull the plug earlier and get in less debt/save time. DH's sister had a similar issue when she was in college (He and I were just starting to date then). I remember arguing with him because he didn't want her to drop out of the 4 year Uni she was going to and go home for a year (at a local school) and regroup. He had gone to a 4 year all the way through and thought she was making a big mistake by going to the "lesser known" local school (despite the fact that she was not happy). I spoke to her and reassured her there was no shame in going home and regrouping. She took my advice, got it together during the year at the local school, transferred again 1 year later to DH's alma mater and ended up happy, healthy, with a completed Master's degree. I also got to say "I told you so" to my DH (He is happier too that she ended up as a grad of his Alma Mater )
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 23, 2014 13:31:06 GMT -5
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Post by midjd on May 23, 2014 13:36:45 GMT -5
Same here. I was very fortunate to get a full-tuition scholarship, but the ONLY reason I had even applied to that college was because my boyfriend-at-the-time was going there. Not the best selection criteria.
If a friend or loved one had sent me that letter, my know-it-all 18yo (or 22yo, since that's when I took out scary IT loans) self would have thought "Fuck you, you don't know me! I know what I'm doing!" (I have never liked being told what to do, even if it is very kindly phrased.) But over the course of the summer, some of the suggestions would have sunk in and I would have been much better off for it.
FB's cousin may be completely different, personality-wise, but if there is no follow-up on the letter, anything that could be perceived as nagging, etc., it's not going to hurt - and it may help.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 23, 2014 13:37:28 GMT -5
I guess my advice would be in addition to providing the guidance now, make sure to let her know that what she decides TODAY isn't something she is locked into for the next 4 years. There is no shame in transferring schools or changing things if she realizes later it isn't for her. If she is going to have an issue, better to pull the plug earlier and get in less debt/save time.I like that, Mardi Gras Audrey. Will definitely try to work that into the letter. Thanks for sharing your story. I hope she learns as well as you did!
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on May 23, 2014 13:37:39 GMT -5
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on May 23, 2014 13:43:42 GMT -5
Same here. I was very fortunate to get a full-tuition scholarship, but the ONLY reason I had even applied to that college was because my boyfriend-at-the-time was going there. Not the best selection criteria. Mid, I selected my college based on similar criteria.. I had two horses living with some relatives back in the area of the private school. I wanted to ride so I figured I would go to school there and have plenty of time to ride my horses. Well, one died on the drive out there (They were old) and the other died during winter break . I figured it was a good time to call it a day and go home that summer (Down two horses but with a few grand in student loans). Did give me a new appreciation for my home town and family/friends there...
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 23, 2014 13:43:40 GMT -5
I always dreamed of being a cautionary tale! Considering your profession, your high debt load makes sense. It just freaks me out to think about my cousin (or anyone) incurring that much debt for undergrad only. I know a couple like this. They both attended private university, both have six figures in undergrad debt, both are teachers They're not going to be paying that off on ~$60k anytime soon... and it makes me sad because they really want kids and it's simply not an option in their circumstances. That's a crazy heavy burden for people in their 20s even if they're going into a lucrative profession. If they're not... they're screwed twice. I would hate to see that happen to my cousin.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 23, 2014 13:51:45 GMT -5
If a friend or loved one had sent me that letter, my know-it-all 18yo (or 22yo, since that's when I took out scary IT loans) self would have thought "Fuck you, you don't know me! I know what I'm doing!" (I have never liked being told what to do, even if it is very kindly phrased.) But over the course of the summer, some of the suggestions would have sunk in and I would have been much better off for it.
Me too. I got some similar letters from my dad in high school and I pretty much blew them off upon first reading. But they sunk in later. And I was always touched that he made the effort (even if I didn't tell him that).
FB's cousin may be completely different, personality-wise, but if there is no follow-up on the letter, anything that could be perceived as nagging, etc., it's not going to hurt - and it may help.
Nope, won't hurt me a bit if she doesn't listen to me. I've been there and I understand. Some things we have to learn on our own. If it helps her, great. If not, that's okay too.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 23, 2014 14:10:47 GMT -5
Also, I really tried hard not to be judgmental or bossy in tone. I used phrases like "This worked well for me..." or "some people find that..."
I have a whole week to edit and ease up on the tone even more.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 23, 2014 14:26:15 GMT -5
That's her choice. As I keep saying.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 23, 2014 16:05:22 GMT -5
Wait - Mid - what is your student loan balance now? I thought you were doing pretty good? I'm doing ok - less than six years to go before they are eligible for forgiveness under PSLF. But since the income-based payments haven't been enough to cover the interest, I owe more than I did when I graduated (borrowed $124K, owe around $132K after 4 years of payments). I had a private loan for $16K, it is down to $6K and change. Thanks to IBR, i've been able to keep my payments low and put a shitload of money into retirement – but I live in mortal fear that the government will end or limit PSLF before 2020.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on May 23, 2014 16:23:46 GMT -5
We were sitting a really cool old German restaurant on Wed. evening after attending the visitation for my 93-y.o. cousin once removed ( yes, I did cry ), and there was the funniest conversation going on between two couples in the booth right behind us. I was located 7-8" away from the mom and dad nearest us, so obviously, I heard everything.
Evidently, both sets of parents had kids that had graduated from local engineering programs, and they were having a sort of a puck drop face-off about whose kid was doing the best in their interviews. That alone cracked me up. However, I heard various phrases dropped such as " He thought he was going to be a shoo-in because he graduated in the special what-cha-macallit program, but there were so many candidates that they didn't even hire him ! " and (other folks ) "He graduated with top honors in the (franistat) program, and thought he would get a job right away, but he's only had three or four interviews from all of the applications and letters he sent out ! "
Welp, here's the scoop, moms and dads. This is automotive engineering land. If your kid is smart enough to get into the U of M engineering program, that's all well and good, but there are tons and tons of smart, experienced engineers out there that have developed platforms (car frames which models are built on ) and built assembly lines for plants who graduated from the same college program your kids did, and also need work. Also, your little Smartypants is competing with graduates from other years of the same program, plus grads from Michigan Tech, Kettering University, and whatever other graduates are applying from out-of-state, plus whatever washes up from Germany and Japan. We have some mighty sharp engineers around here whose first language wasn't English.
Ohhhhh myyyyy. If I sent this to my brother and nephew ( both automotive engineers ), they'd be laughing their asses off, and agree with every word.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on May 23, 2014 17:40:08 GMT -5
We were sitting a really cool old German restaurant on Wed. evening after attending the visitation for my 93-y.o. cousin once removed ( yes, I did cry ), and there was the funniest conversation going on between two couples in the booth right behind us. I was located 7-8" away from the mom and dad nearest us, so obviously, I heard everything. Evidently, both sets of parents had kids that had graduated from local engineering programs, and they were having a sort of a puck drop face-off about whose kid was doing the best in their interviews. That alone cracked me up. However, I heard various phrases dropped such as " He thought he was going to be a shoo-in because he graduated in the special what-cha-macallit program, but there were so many candidates that they didn't even hire him ! " and (other folks ) "He graduated with top honors in the (franistat) program, and thought he would get a job right away, but he's only had three or four interviews from all of the applications and letters he sent out ! " Welp, here's the scoop, moms and dads. This is automotive engineering land. If your kid is smart enough to get into the U of M engineering program, that's all well and good, but there are tons and tons of smart, experienced engineers out there that have developed platforms (car frames which models are built on ) and built assembly lines for plants who graduated from the same college program your kids did, and also need work. Also, your little Smartypants is competing with graduates from other years of the same program, plus grads from Michigan Tech, Kettering University, and whatever other graduates are applying from out-of-state, plus whatever washes up from Germany and Japan. We have some mighty sharp engineers around here whose first language wasn't English. Ohhhhh myyyyy. If I sent this to my brother and nephew ( both automotive engineers ), they'd be laughing their asses off, and agree with every word. so - my take away is - it's better to be an employed music therapist than an alsoran engineering interviewee Just saying that a degree from a fancy school or that costs you $ 100,000 doesn't mean that you're going to have a job to help pay off all of those debts, no matter what the field.
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