Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on May 15, 2014 17:15:54 GMT -5
Explain the letter opener....I'm not familiar with that A printer actually folds a sheet of paper to create several pages. Then the edges of some of the "pages" have to be cut. Rainyday apparently had books where the pages weren't cut. I run across it occasionally in new textbooks. It is actually a defect. Books sold like that today would be a defect, but before in Europe at least (the book was printed in the 60s), it was standard. Like a money saying measure for printers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 17:17:09 GMT -5
Fine, Beowulf is 'old English though, right? Bob Dylan is good! I have a few other modern poetry books here somewhere... But Billy Collins is the only poet I actually really like. ... Although, yeah Dickinson is pretty easy! Ill look uo the T thing
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 17:23:44 GMT -5
Yes, Beowulf is a modern translation of Old English. A nice modern counterpoint is John Gardner's Grendel.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 17:25:42 GMT -5
Maybe I'll do THAT year after this... I had heard its good.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 17:26:25 GMT -5
Explain the letter opener....I'm not familiar with that In my school's library, I found some old books that were uncut. Before things were mechanized, they would print the pages on one full page and fold it (fold once downwards and then in half) and bound the book. So when you get a book for the first time, you had to cut the top edge to read the next page. You can tell which which were the old books or European books in the library by the ragged edges. I once found an uncut book, and had the pleasure of cutting it. It was a weird feeling to cut a book. My professor said that teachers could tell if you read the book or not by whether the pages were intact or not. They still print that way, Rainyday. The reason I know about it is because my ex-FIL owned a printing company. He explained to me which pages would end up next to each other when the yearbook was printed. That is also why yearbooks have to have a page count divided by a certain number.
I forget the specifics.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 15, 2014 18:38:34 GMT -5
Do they still teach Beowulf, Odysseus, Shakespeare, etc... In the old English... I mean, we know the stories, and have watched some in the old English translations, but do they spend much time on this in lit... As the generations go by there is just too much to read... I didn't think anyone other College kids majoring in some weird literature (or language) type degree learned to read the texts in their original format/language....
I read a translation of Beowulf in HS that was truly awful - I was horribly disappointed in the story - just another morality tale about how God plays favorites. That's what I got from the translation we read way back then. I have read another newer translation that was more poetic and I came away from the new translation a little bit less down on the religious stuff stuck in it. I also read many of Shakespeare's plays and the sonnets in HS. I reread some of them (and added in some new ones) in College, and I've read some on my own. I managed to miss the Greek/Roman part of HS English (my freshman year English teacher went bat shit crazy - and it took the administration awhile to figure it out and by that time we all had lost 8 weeks of required 'english' requirements   I think the closest I've ever come to reading something in a language/typeset that vaguely resembled Old English was the Canterbury Tales in an AP course in HS. And even that wasn't really Old English. I have a translation of the Fairy Queen that I've been meaning to read... Thanks to Bat Shit Crazy English Teacher and then being shuffled to other classes I missed out on reading that in HS too.
I know my niece/nephews - read a lot of the things you all (and I mentioned) as well as a boat load of other stuff in HS (recent 10 years) I've got more Shakespeare under my belt - but then I'm fascinated by the plays (read Hamlet atleast 6 times so far, had a couple of passes at R&J, and Midsummer and Comedy of Errors and the Henry Plays... just for fun and entertainment). I'm not sure if the kids were just reading for pleasure from a suggested list or reading for Extra Credit or were assigned the reading.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 19:12:23 GMT -5
/typeset that vaguely resembled Old English was the Canterbury Tales in an AP course in HS. And even that wasn't really Old English. I have a translation of the Fairy Queen that I've been meaning to read... Thanks to Bat Shit Crazy English Teacher and then being shuffled to other classes I missed out on reading that in HS too.
You guys should have stayed awake for Senior English. (BIG SIGH!)
Beowulf, The Seafarer, and The Wanderer are the examples of Old English poetry that kids usually read. Because they are written in OE, which is the equivalent of a foreign language like Old German to you guys, they have to be translated. The best translation of Beowulf is by Burton Raffael. It has energy as well as poetry. Seamus did one, too, that is often included in lit. books, but it is not as good. Spoiler alert: The dragon in Beowulf is the same one in The Hobbit. That's not a surprise because Tolkien is an OE scholar who translated Beowulf, too.
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and The Canterbury Tales are Middle English. You could almost read them in ME, but it's a pain. You probably memorized the Prologue in ME for some unknown reason. That's a question I always ask at PTA Open House. Burton Raffael again does the best translation of Sir Gawain.
I am pretty sure The Faerie Queen is Modern English, but I am not a Spenser fan so I may be mistaken. Shakespeare is definitely Modern English as is Milton and Paradise Lost. It just seems like "old" English to you and my students. Lol.
So here's the quiz for today.
1066 is the most important date in the English language because of: (a) The Great Vowel Shift. (b) The Norman Conquest. (c) The Battle of the Roses. (d) I say so.
If you miss this, you have to listen to my lecture on the History of the English language. If you do, you will also ponder why governors rule government but governesses rule the nursery and why majors lead armies and majorettes lead bands.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 19:34:48 GMT -5
I know that one because I happen to like Bill Bryson ... Who, now that I think about it, is probably worth more of a listen than a lot of the things mentioned here
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on May 15, 2014 19:39:22 GMT -5
c is the answer.
And I swear I didn't google.
It's a very important date.
Guillaume the conqueror. lol such a nerd.
Eta: I correct myself later! I love trivia, and I scrolled too fast.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on May 15, 2014 19:40:06 GMT -5
shit I meant b.
Norman conquest.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 19:40:37 GMT -5
I don't think its C...
lol... Ok, yes, B...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 20:06:35 GMT -5
I was just going to give RainyDay half-credit because William the Conqueror is right, but it's the Norman Conquest. They put a layer of French icing on English. That's why a huge house is called a mansion (French is manse). They were the rich people.
Um, RainyDay, I do need to tell you what I tell my students: half-credit is still an F.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on May 15, 2014 20:09:47 GMT -5
Dang ...... high school English Lit was almost 60 years ago. The only thing I can remember is reading Macbeth and on the test had to write from memory 10 lines ........ which I promptly forgot after the test. Shakespeare is not a favorite of mine.
I did a lot better in American Lit. Love the poetry of Robert Service.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on May 15, 2014 20:18:44 GMT -5
I was just going to give RainyDay half-credit because William the Conqueror is right, but it's the Norman Conquest. They put a layer of French icing on English. That's why a huge house is called a mansion (French is manse). They were the rich people.
Um, RainyDay, I do need to tell you what I tell my students: half-credit is still an F.
Yes, but teacher. 5 seconds later, I changed my answer to the correct one. It was William the Conqueror who was responsible for the Norman conquest. Even on standardized tests, I can change my answer. Do I get full credit now??? Please!!!! (yes! I was that kind of student!!! lol)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 22:49:29 GMT -5
Lol, Rainy. I am a pushover.
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mcsangel2
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Post by mcsangel2 on May 18, 2014 21:28:59 GMT -5
You guys should have stayed awake for Senior English. (BIG SIGH!)
Beowulf, The Seafarer, and The Wanderer are the examples of Old English poetry that kids usually read. Because they are written in OE, which is the equivalent of a foreign language like Old German to you guys, they have to be translated. The best translation of Beowulf is by Burton Raffael. It has energy as well as poetry. Seamus did one, too, that is often included in lit. books, but it is not as good. Spoiler alert: The dragon in Beowulf is the same one in The Hobbit. That's not a surprise because Tolkien is an OE scholar who translated Beowulf, too.
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and The Canterbury Tales are Middle English. You could almost read them in ME, but it's a pain. You probably memorized the Prologue in ME for some unknown reason. That's a question I always ask at PTA Open House. Burton Raffael again does the best translation of Sir Gawain.
I am pretty sure The Faerie Queen is Modern English, but I am not a Spenser fan so I may be mistaken. Shakespeare is definitely Modern English as is Milton and Paradise Lost. It just seems like "old" English to you and my students. Lol.
So here's the quiz for today.
1066 is the most important date in the English language because of: (a) The Great Vowel Shift. (b) The Norman Conquest. (c) The Battle of the Roses. (d) I say so.
If you miss this, you have to listen to my lecture on the History of the English language. If you do, you will also ponder why governors rule government but governesses rule the nursery and why majors lead armies and majorettes lead bands.
That should say the Wars of the Roses, not the Battle.
ETA: I'm not saying that would have been how I'd have answered your quiz. I'm a history nerd. I just wanted to correct the question.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on May 18, 2014 21:50:50 GMT -5
Well, my first year in american HS I had to read Shakespeare. Needless to say, I didn't get very far and was pulled out of that class, but yes, a "few" decades ago they were still teaching it
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 19, 2014 7:47:12 GMT -5
/typeset that vaguely resembled Old English was the Canterbury Tales in an AP course in HS. And even that wasn't really Old English. I have a translation of the Fairy Queen that I've been meaning to read... Thanks to Bat Shit Crazy English Teacher and then being shuffled to other classes I missed out on reading that in HS too.
You guys should have stayed awake for Senior English. (BIG SIGH!)
Beowulf, The Seafarer, and The Wanderer are the examples of Old English poetry that kids usually read. Because they are written in OE, which is the equivalent of a foreign language like Old German to you guys, they have to be translated. The best translation of Beowulf is by Burton Raffael. It has energy as well as poetry. Seamus did one, too, that is often included in lit. books, but it is not as good. Spoiler alert: The dragon in Beowulf is the same one in The Hobbit. That's not a surprise because Tolkien is an OE scholar who translated Beowulf, too.
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and The Canterbury Tales are Middle English. You could almost read them in ME, but it's a pain. You probably memorized the Prologue in ME for some unknown reason. That's a question I always ask at PTA Open House. Burton Raffael again does the best translation of Sir Gawain.
I am pretty sure The Faerie Queen is Modern English, but I am not a Spenser fan so I may be mistaken. Shakespeare is definitely Modern English as is Milton and Paradise Lost. It just seems like "old" English to you and my students. Lol.
So here's the quiz for today.
1066 is the most important date in the English language because of: (a) The Great Vowel Shift. (b) The Norman Conquest. (c) The Battle of the Roses. (d) I say so.
If you miss this, you have to listen to my lecture on the History of the English language. If you do, you will also ponder why governors rule government but governesses rule the nursery and why majors lead armies and majorettes lead bands.
I think I would have liked that Senior English class; my Senior English class was a creative writing class, and I was entirely out of my depth. I enjoy reading, not writing. My creative side lies in crafts and food, not words. I read Beowulf on my own, and I wonder what translation I read; I never got the impression of a dragon in the story! I remember that "monster" was the term used, and that there was little actual description, so I couldn't picture what it was, but dragon never came to mind. The professor I worked for in college had two Newfs, named Beowulf and Hrothgar. Maybe those hairy monsters are why I jumped to the conclusion that the book's "monster" was some large hairy beast, not a dragon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2014 9:58:59 GMT -5
You guys should have stayed awake for Senior English. (BIG SIGH!)
Beowulf, The Seafarer, and The Wanderer are the examples of Old English poetry that kids usually read. Because they are written in OE, which is the equivalent of a foreign language like Old German to you guys, they have to be translated. The best translation of Beowulf is by Burton Raffael. It has energy as well as poetry. Seamus did one, too, that is often included in lit. books, but it is not as good. Spoiler alert: The dragon in Beowulf is the same one in The Hobbit. That's not a surprise because Tolkien is an OE scholar who translated Beowulf, too.
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and The Canterbury Tales are Middle English. You could almost read them in ME, but it's a pain. You probably memorized the Prologue in ME for some unknown reason. That's a question I always ask at PTA Open House. Burton Raffael again does the best translation of Sir Gawain.
I am pretty sure The Faerie Queen is Modern English, but I am not a Spenser fan so I may be mistaken. Shakespeare is definitely Modern English as is Milton and Paradise Lost. It just seems like "old" English to you and my students. Lol.
So here's the quiz for today.
1066 is the most important date in the English language because of: (a) The Great Vowel Shift. (b) The Norman Conquest. (c) The Battle of the Roses. (d) I say so.
If you miss this, you have to listen to my lecture on the History of the English language. If you do, you will also ponder why governors rule government but governesses rule the nursery and why majors lead armies and majorettes lead bands.
That should say the Wars of the Roses, not the Battle.
ETA: I'm not saying that would have been how I'd have answered your quiz. I'm a history nerd. I just wanted to correct the question.
You are right. It's the end of the year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 7:43:55 GMT -5
Remembering back to High School: The Heart of Darkness, The Handmaid's Tale, The Crucible, The Bell Jar, Some assortment of Shakespeare (I think it was Midsummer Night's Dream and sonnets), The Fountainhead, The Great Gatsby, Of Mice and Men, Slaughterhouse Five, Death of a Salesman, Raisin in the Sun, Children of a Lesser God, Some Edgar Allen Poe stories,
Middle School: Scarlet Letter, Animal Farm, 1984, The Little Prince, One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, Diary of a Young Girl, Robinson Crusoe, Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde, 20000 Leagues under the Sea,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 8:19:26 GMT -5
Remembering back to High School: The Heart of Darkness, The Handmaid's Tale, The Crucible, The Bell Jar, Some assortment of Shakespeare (I think it was Midsummer Night's Dream and sonnets), The Fountainhead, The Great Gatsby, Of Mice and Men, Slaughterhouse Five, Death of a Salesman, Raisin in the Sun, Children of a Lesser God, Some Edgar Allen Poe stories, Middle School: Scarlet Letter, Animal Farm, 1984, The Little Prince, One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, Diary of a Young Girl, Robinson Crusoe, Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde, 20000 Leagues under the Sea, Your middle school list is interesting. I would argue that The Scarlet Letter, 1984, and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest are not really middle school material. Did you enjoy them at that age?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 8:29:25 GMT -5
I read voraciously, but can honestly say I didn't enjoy any of the assigned readings except the Handmaids Tale and One Flew Over.
Did the books and concepts make sense at that age? Yes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 8:35:46 GMT -5
1984 has an amount of sex talk, and the suppression of physical pleasure, etc. I was actually nervous to put it on the book club list this past year (mostly 9th graders) because we have some rather religious families.
Now Animall Farm we did earlier.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 20, 2014 8:41:09 GMT -5
I read One Flew Over in college. That book f-ed me up!
1984 would be a good one to assign right now with all the "big brother" stuff the government is pulling. You could really tie that in to current events.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 20, 2014 8:42:09 GMT -5
1984 would be a good one to assign right now with all the "big brother" stuff the government is pulling. You could really tie that in to current events.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 8:43:24 GMT -5
Here's a link to Old English (the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles). Makes Shakespeare look easy, doesn't it?
asc.jebbo.co.uk/a/a-L.html
I couldn't get into most of the literature we had to read in HS and got through college with only 2 quarters of English because my Verbal ACT score got me into an accelerated class and I was a Math major, so no need to go further. My mother LOVED Dickens. I just couldn't get into "Great Expectations".
OTOH, I was blown away by Coleridge's "Xanadu" and Chesterton's "Battle of Lepanto". A guy I knew who was attending college when I was in HS told me that Coleridge wrote Xanadu after taking drugs. I asked the nun about that. Oh, no, didn't happen. I visited the British Museum in the 1980s and found a letter from Coleridge. He'd taken some laudanum and was sleeping it off when he was awakened by someone at the door. He wrote the poem right after that. The nun LIED! (Or, more likely, had no idea.) I later re-read "The Battle of Lepanto" after having visited Europe many times and understanding that the Christians vs. Muslims tension had been going on for centuries. Well, I DID know that from having studied the Crusades, but knowing what I knew as a better-traveled adult who pursued history because I was interested in the places I was visiting, it meant a lot. Then I found items captured from the Ottomans at Lepanto in a museum in Madrid. Wow.
I studied a little Old English and Middle English on my own. I can't really get into the fine points of the literature; I just love the language and the cadence. I'm pretty fluent in French and German so I can pick up most of it.
Middle School: Scarlet Letter, Animal Farm, 1984, The Little Prince, One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, ..<snip>
I still have a French copy of The Little Prince. I bought it in a bookstore in Montreal, then read it over dinner in a Vietnamese restaurant while getting a little drunk on the beer. Great book.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 8:48:27 GMT -5
Well, we did discuss the role of language and the names things are sometimes given that don't accurately represent the thing. And there are implications to monitoring and the ability to hold someone without due process, surely. But ultimately 1984 doesn't look anything like today. No Anti-orgasm brigade, illegal sex and books, constant propaganda TV, etc... The thing about 1984 and monitoring that's the most scary is them teaching the kids to turn you in... which I don't see happening yet
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 20, 2014 8:52:10 GMT -5
While not constant I'd argue political ads are propaganda. "Don't vote for this guy, he's bad! BAD! Vote for me!" I joked with DH about an ad I saw last night bashing a candidate for the senate in Nebraska. I said the commercial told me not to vote for this guy but they didn't tell me who I should vote for. I can't make decisions unless they tell me what I am supposed to do!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 20:34:23 GMT -5
Ok. I think I finished me list/plan! I can post it if anyone cares, lol... Its a combination for Social Studies/Literature so Its a fairly long list...
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