mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 14, 2014 13:49:29 GMT -5
swamp I have a feeling it is rotgut beer so no need for him to sample. Wouldn't be putting out the good stuff for someone who is gonna get his balls blown off  Seems to me I remember someone telling me once, long ago, never to waste a good beer. I'm pretty sure it was a guy in whose face I'd thrown a beer. I never was a beer-lover.  |
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 14, 2014 22:33:41 GMT -5
I already asked for anyone to point out on the many threads where I ever said ban guns or guns were bad- hard for some people to accept that a gun owner would criticize other gun owners. Not my problem is it. 
I even went to the trouble of rotating my avatar with a few insurance pictures I keep of my guns just to make the point-so just for today it's going to be my S&W tactical .40 close up- note the serial number is clearly visible. I hate that darn gun  It's not that you say "guns are bad", it's that you spend an inordinate amount of time pointing out every possible way people misuse them. We have threads about questionable police shootings, excessive police shootings, accidental shootings, kids accidentally shooting themselves with BB guns, shootings as part of dubious self-defense claims, random shootings (such as theater shootings or loud music shootings), mass shootings (such as the Ford Hood shootings, etc.), questionable SYG shootings, ... Then we add to that an equally redoubtable payload of threads on gun regulations and gun culture. Threads on NRA "Looney Tunes", and questionable NRA lobbying, and objections to concealed carry laws, and objections to open carry laws, and objections to high-capacity magazines, and disdain for "the types of guys" who openly carry, and disdain for "self-defense" gun magazines, and disdain for militias, and disdain for second amendment support rallies, ... I said before that of the 81 threads you've posted on gun-related topics in the past six months, none (as in, zero) were even slightly favourable towards guns. I was slightly mistaken. It turns out that one of your threads (specifically, this one) discusses a self-defense shooting that you considered justifiable. Hence the ratio is 80 to 1. 80 threads about murder, mayhem, and untold suffering--where the only common theme is that guns are somehow involved and being misused--versus one thread where you provide us with a brief glimpse of "hey, maybe guns aren't the scourge of the universe". If you truly don't hate guns and you want recognition of that fact, you might try not bombarding the boards with every conceivable reason to hate guns, gun laws, gun lobbies, and gun owners. Or at least temper it with an occasional "Look! An appropriate use of a gun." thread once every 20 gun threads or so. It's Zimmerman's fault Actually what set me down this path is the side a lot of pro-gun people took and continue to take when things like this happen. So I have it in for some of them- I admit that.
When unarmed people get shot I get concerned- whether or not it is the police or a citizen. Gunfire should be a last resort-and I do not nor ever claimed to have a problem with the castle doctrine. Never had anything bad to say about concealed carry either.
I do think certain magazines should be banned- and calling them 'self-defense' magazines does not make them so.
I think the NRA sucks- and I used to be a member- that's an opinion I am entitled to. I also think guns should be registered- which scares the crap out of some people- the same ones that are keeping it legal to sell guns to felons or other nuts in the parking lot of a gun show.
Militias- depends on who they are and what they do- a lot of them are anti-government, sovereign citizen types. Some blow up federal office buildings or attempt to bomb parades- so I am always suspicious of them. 2nd amendment rallies- what do I care?
The gun debate is a lively one- makes good discussions in a lot of cases- so if people quit looking at them I will quit posting them. Should we not talk about situations like these recent cases?
I will be sure and post some positive gun stories when I run across them- unfortunately the ratio in the media is about 80-1.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 13:20:42 GMT -5
i pointed out on another thread that the NRA was primarily a gun safety and training organization in it's first century of existence. since then, i can't imagine an organization LESS concerned with weapons safety and training than the NRA- if by those terms you mean "legislated safety and training". they have stood in the way of every meaningful mandated safety and training improvement for weapons for at least a generation. if they could get back to their original mission, i might rejoin the organization. i was a member in the 70's. I don't disagree. While I've never been an NRA member, I do own a gun and I wouldn't want anyone to tell me I can't keep that gun here for our protection. To me (and, I think, to you), it's quite obvious what EVT is trying to point out. It's also obvious it angers him. I don't like it, either, and I'd like to see the NRA take some responsible action instead of extolling gun ownership while fighting against any sort of safety controls/regulations considered in that regard. To me, that's irresponsible and politically driven, not representing the interests of responsible gun owners. The NRA has taken it's stance for the last 30 years or so in response to the (inch at a time) gun rights restrictions being attempted by the gun control activists. It usually comes under the disguise of gun safety, sensible restrictions, CDC studies, etc. They are engaging in infringement control. As any nitpicker can point out, their stance isn't perfect, but they're getting the job done. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 13:28:13 GMT -5
It's not that you say "guns are bad", it's that you spend an inordinate amount of time pointing out every possible way people misuse them. We have threads about questionable police shootings, excessive police shootings, accidental shootings, kids accidentally shooting themselves with BB guns, shootings as part of dubious self-defense claims, random shootings (such as theater shootings or loud music shootings), mass shootings (such as the Ford Hood shootings, etc.), questionable SYG shootings, ... Then we add to that an equally redoubtable payload of threads on gun regulations and gun culture. Threads on NRA "Looney Tunes", and questionable NRA lobbying, and objections to concealed carry laws, and objections to open carry laws, and objections to high-capacity magazines, and disdain for "the types of guys" who openly carry, and disdain for "self-defense" gun magazines, and disdain for militias, and disdain for second amendment support rallies, ... I said before that of the 81 threads you've posted on gun-related topics in the past six months, none (as in, zero) were even slightly favourable towards guns. I was slightly mistaken. It turns out that one of your threads (specifically, this one) discusses a self-defense shooting that you considered justifiable. Hence the ratio is 80 to 1. 80 threads about murder, mayhem, and untold suffering--where the only common theme is that guns are somehow involved and being misused--versus one thread where you provide us with a brief glimpse of "hey, maybe guns aren't the scourge of the universe". If you truly don't hate guns and you want recognition of that fact, you might try not bombarding the boards with every conceivable reason to hate guns, gun laws, gun lobbies, and gun owners. Or at least temper it with an occasional "Look! An appropriate use of a gun." thread once every 20 gun threads or so. It's Zimmerman's fault Actually what set me down this path is the side a lot of pro-gun people took and continue to take when things like this happen. So I have it in for some of them- I admit that.
When unarmed people get shot I get concerned- whether or not it is the police or a citizen. Gunfire should be a last resort-and I do not nor ever claimed to have a problem with the castle doctrine. Never had anything bad to say about concealed carry either.
I do think certain magazines should be banned- and calling them 'self-defense' magazines does not make them so.
I think the NRA sucks- and I used to be a member- that's an opinion I am entitled to. I also think guns should be registered- which scares the crap out of some people- the same ones that are keeping it legal to sell guns to felons or other nuts in the parking lot of a gun show.
Militias- depends on who they are and what they do- a lot of them are anti-government, sovereign citizen types. Some blow up federal office buildings or attempt to bomb parades- so I am always suspicious of them. 2nd amendment rallies- what do I care?
The gun debate is a lively one- makes good discussions in a lot of cases- so if people quit looking at them I will quit posting them. Should we not talk about situations like these recent cases?
I will be sure and post some positive gun stories when I run across them- unfortunately the ratio in the media is about 80-1.
How is the ratio of crime use versus non crime use in the real world. Or doesn't that make any commercial sales ($$) for the business called media. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 16, 2014 13:29:58 GMT -5
I don't disagree. While I've never been an NRA member, I do own a gun and I wouldn't want anyone to tell me I can't keep that gun here for our protection. To me (and, I think, to you), it's quite obvious what EVT is trying to point out. It's also obvious it angers him. I don't like it, either, and I'd like to see the NRA take some responsible action instead of extolling gun ownership while fighting against any sort of safety controls/regulations considered in that regard. To me, that's irresponsible and politically driven, not representing the interests of responsible gun owners. The NRA has taken it's stance for the last 30 years or so in response to the (inch at a time) gun rights restrictions being attempted by the gun control activists. It usually comes under the disguise of gun safety, sensible restrictions, CDC studies, etc. They are engaging in infringement control. As any nitpicker can point out, their stance isn't perfect, but they're getting the job done. what job? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 13:48:44 GMT -5
The NRA has taken it's stance for the last 30 years or so in response to the (inch at a time) gun rights restrictions being attempted by the gun control activists. It usually comes under the disguise of gun safety, sensible restrictions, CDC studies, etc. They are engaging in infringement control. As any nitpicker can point out, their stance isn't perfect, but they're getting the job done. what job? The one they're choosing to do. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 16, 2014 13:55:41 GMT -5
The one they're choosing to do. what job is that? |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 14:12:07 GMT -5
The one they're choosing to do. what job is that? Deflection proof today. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 16, 2014 14:13:30 GMT -5
Deflection proof today. i don't understand that response. what "job" do you think the NRA is doing? i am genuinely curious, jma. edit: in other words, what do you mean by "infringement control"? |
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 17, 2014 9:14:54 GMT -5
What if you have been repeatedly burglarized, called the police only to have nothing done. After each event you have tried to secure the property but have limited funds,
Can't afford to move.
So what do you do? Just let this keep happening?
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on May 17, 2014 9:32:15 GMT -5
Keep your doors and windows closed and locked, including your garage door. If the perp is in your house, or in the process of breaking into your house, shoot. If the perp is standing in your yard, or running down the street, or is not in the process of breaking into your house, don't shoot. That doesn't seem complicated to me.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 17, 2014 10:29:25 GMT -5
What if you have been repeatedly burglarized, called the police only to have nothing done. After each event you have tried to secure the property but have limited funds, Can't afford to move. So what do you do? Just let this keep happening? What did your hypothetical victim do to help the police? Did he/she have pictures/videos of the burgler ìn his home? Could the victim give a good description of the burgler? Did the victim have special codes (only known to the victim and recorded/written down) etched onto the missing items? Serial numbers of missing items recorded? |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 17, 2014 14:39:58 GMT -5
What if you have been repeatedly burglarized, called the police only to have nothing done. After each event you have tried to secure the property but have limited funds, Can't afford to move. So what do you do? Just let this keep happening? What did your hypothetical victim do to help the police? Did he/she have pictures/videos of the burgler ìn his home? Could the victim give a good description of the burgler? Did the victim have special codes (only known to the victim and recorded/written down) etched onto the missing items? Serial numbers of missing items recorded? So in other words, you're putting all the blame back on the victim. The victim is supposed to have their house set up for taping (costs money). And having a good look at the burgler? Really? My place was burgled twice and I have no idea as to what any of the burglers looked like as I was NOT HOME WHEN IT HAPPENED. Oh, and the second place was fingerprinted....all that did was leave a hell of a mess to clean up. Despite what the cops say, having the serial numbers of missing items, or having your DL etched onto the item does squat. BTDT. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 17, 2014 14:57:54 GMT -5
What did your hypothetical victim do to help the police? Did he/she have pictures/videos of the burgler ìn his home? Could the victim give a good description of the burgler? Did the victim have special codes (only known to the victim and recorded/written down) etched onto the missing items? Serial numbers of missing items recorded? So in other words, you're putting all the blame back on the victim. The victim is supposed to have their house set up for taping (costs money). And having a good look at the burgler? Really? My place was burgled twice and I have no idea as to what any of the burglers looked like as I was NOT HOME WHEN IT HAPPENED. Oh, and the second place was fingerprinted....all that did was leave a hell of a mess to clean up. Despite what the cops say, having the serial numbers of missing items, or having your DL etched onto the item does squat. BTDT. It must be tough for you, Mitch, always being the victim. 
ETA: Back in 1996, my apartment was broken into/burglarized. The thief/thieves got away with my television, VCR and microwave. An electronic smash/grab/dash event. I did have the serial numbers for all three items. While I did not get back my television and microwave, I did get back the VCR. It was found at a pawn shop via the serial number. Renters' insurance compensated me for the microwave and television. Renters' insurance is cheap. No one who rents should be without it.
And just this past Wednesday night/early Saturday morning, my car was entered while parked in my driveway. I do not know why, but I failed to lock it and set the alarm. Fortunately, the only thing of any value within it was a baggie which contained two one dollar bills and about $5 dollars of spare change. I did not write down the serial numbers of the two one dollar bills, so I doubt I will get them back. And the change...well the change is just not coming back. My fault-I did not lock the car.
But through those two events, I still do not feel the need to buy myself a handgun. My experience with the above two events tells me that the last thing thieves want to do is come in contact with the property owner during their crime spree(s).
We live in a world where some people are thieves. Since the dawn of mankind, people have stolen from others. Always has been and always will be.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 17, 2014 16:00:51 GMT -5
Actually you can get a cheap motion activated spy cam and installed in the right place will work just fine.
I don't get the notion that somehow because someone has been burglarized multiple times that would give them the right to take the law into their own hands and maybe execute a person- or did oldcoyote mean something else?
And if you have limited funds eventually all your good shit will be gone so there will be nothing left worth stealing. It's just a bunch of crap that's going to end up in a landfill one day anyway- try not to get that attached to it.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 17, 2014 16:13:03 GMT -5
Actually you can get a cheap motion activated spy cam and installed in the right place will work just fine.
I don't get the notion that somehow because someone has been burglarized multiple times that would give them the right to take the law into their own hands and maybe execute a person- or did oldcoyote mean something else?
And if you have limited funds eventually all your good shit will be gone so there will be nothing left worth stealing. It's just a bunch of crap that's going to end up in a landfill one day anyway- try not to get that attached to it.
You also buy cheap fake spy cams. They blink but do not record. Most burglars are not willing to take the chance that they may be real or not. |
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 17, 2014 17:50:10 GMT -5
Yep- most burglars are not very smart.
If they are a pro and they want your stuff they are going to get it no matter what you do- very small chance of being targeted by those people if you are just some average Joe with average Joe crap. Even a fake security yard sign or door sticker is enough for them to move on to the next house- they want the easy pickings. What sucks is that once you have been hit you are are more likely to get hit again in the near future. I'd go with a cam- you can even get wildlife motion cameras and stick one in a tree in the yard, maybe one for the mailbox watching the driveway, they also have motion floodlights that have cameras in them. Also smoke alarm motion cameras are neat. I like the idea that I will have a nice photo for the police and have a real good chance of getting my stuff back and have the person in jail.
Or if you want to spend the $15 a month or so for alarm monitoring that's not a lot to pay either. Mix that with the discount you can get with homeowner's for having an alarm system and it just about pays for itself. Much cheaper than a murder defense 
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 17, 2014 20:09:25 GMT -5
EVT1 is correct in that once they know what you have, they or one of their friends will come back for the goodies they did not have time
to take.
I'm amazed the thought here is the victim is responsible for their so called lack of responsibly and criminal is not held accountable for their actions.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 17, 2014 20:35:10 GMT -5
EVT1 is correct in that once they know what you have, they or one of their friends will come back for the goodies they did not have time to take. I'm amazed the thought here is the victim is responsible for their so called lack of responsibly and criminal is not held accountable for their actions. Correct- someone will come back for what they missed or what you bought to replace what was stolen.
All I ever said is you can't just set them up for an ambush and kill them- and trust me I would love to get my hands on the people that broke into my house years back- I even wished I rolled up on them- I would have pulled my pistol and blocked the driveway- whatever. I get that. Don't think for a minute I have sympathy for a thief.
But your only flaw is how you are taking this- in these cases the 'criminal' is not held accountable because they were fucking shot dead! And BTW- victim is a very fluid label.
Either way there is a price to pay
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on May 18, 2014 4:33:21 GMT -5
Sure you can set them up. You just have to make sure you cover your bases.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 18, 2014 5:40:38 GMT -5
I don't feel the issue with them being unarmed or not. Unless you're a dwarf, I'm smaller than everyone and old. Now how do I know I'm not going to be beaten up, or raped, or whatever. Should I take my chances that you ONLY want my stuff and aren't going to harm me? Just because you don't have a gun on you. Not happening.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 13:37:00 GMT -5
I am "anti-gun". I would like to see this country mature to the point that the Second Amendment is repealed through constitutional methods and that gun ownership become a privilege granted to those who demonstrate the need for and ability to responsibly own guns. There would have to be a major change in the culture of this society prior to this taking place. So I guess we will just continue to shoot each other for the foreseeable future.  I am pro-gun and am glad that this country is mature enough to have the right to own firearms written right into it's constitution. I will defend that right with all means at my disposal. "Inch at a time" gun restriction and regulation will be fought with "not give an inch" responses along with proactive movement such as Castle doctrine, open carry, concealed carry, and SYG for a start. I eagerly await the next phase of deregulation that is sure to come. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 21, 2014 14:38:46 GMT -5
... this country is mature enough to have the right to own firearms written right into it's constitution. ... The country for which that was written was in its infancy. |
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on May 21, 2014 15:44:28 GMT -5
Keep your doors and windows closed and locked, including your garage door. If the perp is in your house, or in the process of breaking into your house, shoot. If the perp is standing in your yard, or running down the street, or is not in the process of breaking into your house, don't shoot. That doesn't seem complicated to me. Quite right. Law-abiding citizens should properly be made prisoners in their own homes, unable to earn the money to pay the taxes to support the police force that isn't doing the job of protecting their homes and families because they are standing, paranoid and trigger-happy, in that breach. Or alternatively enter into a mutually-disadvantageous arrangement with local burglars to have them attempt home invasions only when it is most convenient for the burglars to be shot by the occupants. |
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 21, 2014 20:35:07 GMT -5
Now that's just silly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 12:52:50 GMT -5
... this country is mature enough to have the right to own firearms written right into it's constitution. ... The country for which that was written was in its infancy. Which was based on the Roman empire. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 23, 2014 16:22:26 GMT -5
The country for which that was written was in its infancy. Which was based on the Roman empire. Which allowed citizens to be armed. |
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