"A Fatal Wait: Veterans Languish and Die

[Deleted]

on a VA hospital's secret list"

(CNN) -- At least 40 U.S. veterans died waiting for appointments at the Phoenix Veterans Affairs Health Care system, many of whom were placed on a secret waiting list.

The secret list was part of an elaborate scheme designed by Veterans Affairs managers in Phoenix who were trying to hide that 1,400 to 1,600 sick veterans were forced to wait months to see a doctor, according to a recently retired top VA doctor and several high-level sources.

For six months, CNN has been reporting on extended delays in health care appointments suffered by veterans across the country and who died while waiting for appointments and care. But the new revelations about the Phoenix VA are perhaps the most disturbing and striking to come to light thus far.

Internal e-mails obtained by CNN show that top management at the VA hospital in Arizona knew about the practice and even defended it.

www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/health/veterans-dying-health-care-delays/index.html

 This is a really sad story if the allegations are true.

Do you think this is something that can be investigated without a political spin or has that already happened ? I have not been following it closely.

I would hope so . Maybe that is not even possible anymore about anything.

[mmhmm]

Moving this to Current Events.  It's more fitting for that category than for the more lighthearted EE.

mmhmm, Administrator

[Shooby]

And, sooooo we want to turn healthcare completely over to govt?

[The Captain]

I've been following this (and other similiar stories) for some time.

Note:  I'M NOT MAKING ANY KIND OF POLITICAL STATEMENT HERE. 

Since 1990 the US has entered into at least 30 military operations that I can find, including major ones like Operation Desert Storm, The war in Afghanstan, the war in IRAQ. 

At least in my part of the country I haven't see the VA opening any new facilities to treat the (expected) increased patient load.  Due to better body armor and medical technology more injured soldiers are surviving, but they have injuries and medical issues that will require lifelong care.

The VA system was broken even back in the 80's and early 90's.  I haven't seen any progress made to fix it since then.  In my family our Vets had medical coverage through work with the exception of one uncle, and I remember the wait times were very long even before the military surges of the 90's and later.

[Tennesseer]

@xmascookie -

VA Secretary Shinseki to testify about alleged cover-ups of treatment delays

Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki will testify next week about recent allegations that his department covered up treatment delays for patients who died while waiting for care, according to a congressional panel.

The Senate Veterans Affairs Committee scheduled the hearing for next Thursday, announcing the move shortly after the House Veterans Affairs Committee agreed unanimously on Thursday to subpoena top VA officials for documents related to the growing controversy.

VA Secretary Shinseki to testify about alleged cover-ups of treatment delays

[busymom]

My Dad, a WWII vet, refused to use the closest VA hospital. The waits were too long, & even when the doctors agreed that a specific surgery/treatment was probably needed, you waited some more. Fortunately, my Dad could afford to bypass the VA system, & ultimately decided to use both doctors & hospitals of his choice.

The way people are treated who took time out from their personal lives to serve our country is appalling!

[wyouser]

Merely a glimpse of the future as faceless bureaucrats expand their reach throughout healthcare.  Shameful way to treat veterans. 

[workpublic]

faceless bureaucrats

with great health care.

[Blonde Granny]

Our experience with VA medical care since 2000 has been nothing short of terrific!!! Quick appointments, requests for certain tests agreed to and quickly scheduled, Drs. are attentive and even better, love what they do and are willing to go above and beyond in order to give the best care possible to DH and other vets.

One of the biggest issues though is the tremendously long wait for approval or disapproval of VA filings for disability. It is not unusual for it to take more than 1 year, and sometimes as long as 5 years for it be finished. The excuses are long and varied, but most of the time it's " we've never received the required paperwork, send it again". This is shameful!!!! The Waco, Tx. regional office is just about at the top of the list for wait times at a normal time of 528 days.

The silliest part of this is: When the vet files a new claim for disability, the clock starts upon receipt. If it takes 2 years for the approval, the VA gives the vet retro pay from the date the claim was filed.  Any amount over $25K has to be approved.  The largest check we've received was $13K.

The system is broken, the bureaucratic nature of the federal government rewards those who do little, and the VA is no exception.

[wyouser]

May 9, 2014 15:12:11 GMT -5 workpublic said:

faceless bureaucrats

with great health care.

To be expected.  Surely, all men were not created equal. We have, of course, the elite, and then the nameless rabble graciously looked after by said elite

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

One of the biggest issues though is the tremendously long wait for approval or disapproval of VA filings for disability. It is not unusual for it to take more than 1 year, and sometimes as long as 5 years for it be finished. The excuses are long and varied, but most of the time it's " we've never received the required paperwork, send it again". This is shameful!!!! The Waco, Tx. regional office is just about at the top of the list for wait times at a normal time of 528 days.

The silliest part of this is: When the vet files a new claim for disability, the clock starts upon receipt. If it takes 2 years for the approval, the VA gives the vet retro pay from the date the claim was filed. Any amount over $25K has to be approved. The largest check we've received was $13K.

Interesting....

When my dad retired from the military, he was deemed to have a partial disability from his military service (hearing loss from working on the flight lines). He had issues as he got older that were attributed to his military service and was re-evaluated.

I want to say that his re-evaluation took only a few months to approve and he received disability from the time he retired, which was backdated from his retirement date (and the check was 3x your max check received).

[Shooby]

The Dems fail to understand that health INSURANCE is not the same thing as health CARE. Soooo, the govt can make all the mandates and laws it wants to. Having insurance does not mean you will have CARE.

[djAdvocate]

May 10, 2014 8:22:48 GMT -5 Shooby said:

The Dems fail to understand that health INSURANCE is not the same thing as health CARE. Soooo, the govt can make all the mandates and laws it wants to. Having insurance does not mean you will have CARE.

precisely.  so let's stop calling it healthcare reform.  it is INSURANCE reform.

[djAdvocate]

May 9, 2014 14:34:59 GMT -5 wyouser said:

Merely a glimpse of the future as faceless bureaucrats expand their reach throughout healthcare.  Shameful way to treat veterans. 

agreed.  but let's not pretend this started happening yesterday, ok?  this has been going on for many many many years.

i am pleased that there is finally outrage about it.  maybe it will get fixed.

[djAdvocate]

May 9, 2014 13:38:03 GMT -5 Shooby said:

And, sooooo we want to turn healthcare completely over to govt?

as bad as it is, the private healthcare system is WORSE, if healthcare results, and satisfaction are how you measure it.

[Shooby]

Really? Well, if the govt is doing such a great job, then toss out your own health insurance and quit your job and try to go on Medical Assistance.

[djAdvocate]

May 12, 2014 7:12:17 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Really?

really.

Well, if the govt is doing such a great job, then toss out your own health insurance and quit your job and try to go on Medical Assistance.

i would gladly do so, but i am not eligible, unfortunately.

[Shooby]

Well, you could commit a crime and get the awesome govt paid for Prison care.

[justme]

May 12, 2014 10:06:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 12, 2014 7:12:17 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Really?

really.

Well, if the govt is doing such a great job, then toss out your own health insurance and quit your job and try to go on Medical Assistance.

i would gladly do so, but i am not eligible, unfortunately.

At least 3 of my doctors don't accept Medicaid or Medicare. 

[djAdvocate]

May 12, 2014 10:22:54 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Well, you could commit a crime and get the awesome govt paid for Prison care.

most prisons are private.  they suck.

no, i would rather have Tri-Care.  i have never spoken to a military person that doesn't love it.

[djAdvocate]

May 12, 2014 10:42:58 GMT -5 justme said:

May 12, 2014 10:06:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i would gladly do so, but i am not eligible, unfortunately.

At least 3 of my doctors don't accept Medicaid or Medicare. 

all of mine do.

[mmhmm]

May 12, 2014 11:21:19 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 12, 2014 10:42:58 GMT -5 justme said:

At least 3 of my doctors don't accept Medicaid or Medicare. 

all of mine do.

Mother's and mine do, as well, dj, and all are well-respected in their fields.  I wouldn't see a doctor who didn't participate.

[973beachbum]

May 12, 2014 11:23:27 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

May 12, 2014 11:21:19 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

all of mine do.

Mother's and mine do, as well, dj, and all are well-respected in their fields.  I wouldn't see a doctor who didn't participate.

Every Dr, Hosp and medical facility I have ever seen accepts Medicare.  Medicaid is a little more tricky but most do still accept some medicaid patients.   Most Dr's offices have limits to the numbers of medicaid patients they will accept at one time so Dr A may be accepting new medicaid patients for six months and then stop until the numbers drop to give the office the mix of patient payment types that they want.

Isn't this the same thing as saying we should diversify our investments?

[mmhmm]

May 13, 2014 10:12:02 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

May 12, 2014 11:23:27 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Mother's and mine do, as well, dj, and all are well-respected in their fields.  I wouldn't see a doctor who didn't participate.

Every Dr, Hosp and medical facility I have ever seen accepts Medicare.  Medicaid is a little more tricky but most do still accept some medicaid patients.   Most Dr's offices have limits to the numbers of medicaid patients they will accept at one time so Dr A may be accepting new medicaid patients for six months and then stop until the numbers drop to give the office the mix of patient payment types that they want.

Isn't this the same thing as saying we should diversify our investments?

People should do whatever suits them, as far as I'm concerned.  The doctors we see accept Medicare and Medicaid.  That's what's right for us and, apparently, for them.

[djAdvocate]

May 13, 2014 10:14:57 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

May 13, 2014 10:12:02 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Every Dr, Hosp and medical facility I have ever seen accepts Medicare.  Medicaid is a little more tricky but most do still accept some medicaid patients.   Most Dr's offices have limits to the numbers of medicaid patients they will accept at one time so Dr A may be accepting new medicaid patients for six months and then stop until the numbers drop to give the office the mix of patient payment types that they want.

Isn't this the same thing as saying we should diversify our investments?

People should do whatever suits them, as far as I'm concerned.  The doctors we see accept Medicare and Medicaid.  That's what's right for us and, apparently, for them.

i just can't fathom why a doctor would walk away from Medicare money, particulary.  it seems like a gold mine to me.

[wyouser]

May 10, 2014 13:42:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 9, 2014 14:34:59 GMT -5 wyouser said:

Merely a glimpse of the future as faceless bureaucrats expand their reach throughout healthcare.  Shameful way to treat veterans. 

agreed.  but let's not pretend this started happening yesterday, ok?  this has been going on for many many many years.

i am pleased that there is finally outrage about it.  maybe it will get fixed.

You are 100% correct, this did not start happening yesterday. We have made promises to veterans from the Continental Congress through today with a less than stellar record of delivering on them. A little outrage is overdue.

[Blonde Granny]

My PC physician accepts Medicare, however she has not been accepting new patients for a couple of years now and also does not accept Medicaid.

[djAdvocate]

May 13, 2014 12:26:00 GMT -5 @patstab said:

I know this will be taken wrong. But I wonder how many of them on the list were terminal and little could be done for them anyway. I know that is callous but when we are basically rationing healthcare in a system like that something has to happen.

I do however hope its fixed, the repubs with their wars increased the need but want to cut the services back now.

this is why we need death panels.

[djAdvocate]

personally, if i reach that stage, i want as much morphine as i can handle.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

As much as I respect AND APPROVE - the option for Euthanasia (in writing by the patient, and legally on record), I don't see it happening - or doctors carrying out wishes of terminal patients in the near future. It's been done, but not necessarily legally.

My SIL had terminal liver cancer - and was wasted away to about 40 lb near the end. She would have welcomed being put out of her agony and sent on her way - but was kept on feeding tubes and other life-support until the end. It was hard on everyone - not just herself, but my brother (her husband), their young children and the rest of the family on both sides.

In cases of no recovery, I think it should be in the patient's best interests to grant them their dying wish - and let them go in peace rather than linger in agony. (Just my 2¢)