Tennessee will criminalize moms who use drugs while pregnant

[Shooby]

newsfixnow.com/2014/05/01/tennessee-will-criminalize-moms-who-use-drugs-while-pregnant/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Kiah-LocalNews+%28KIAH+-+NewsFixNow%29

[whoisjohngalt]

www.salon.com/2014/04/30/tennessee_just_became_the_first_state_that_will_jail_women_for_their_pregnancy_outcomes/

The bottom line - a woman can go to jail if she takes illegal drugs while pregnant

[chiver78]

I think it's a slippery slope toward treating pregnant women as incubators, not to mention inconsistent practices in enforcing existing drug laws.

[swamp]

bad, bad, bad, bad idea.

[whoisjohngalt]

I feel really conflicted bc (as you might have guessed) I hate govt intervention, but there are so  many kids who are born with all kinds of problems due to women using drugs and alcohol during pregnancy - how do we stop that?

Bc let's face it - those women are usually not the ones who later take care of those children.

[Tennesseer]

Against.  treat drug use as an illness and not a crime.

This state gets more ridiculous as time goes on.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I understand the thought process behind it, but I think it is a BAD idea. Like the article I read mentioned it'll now drive these women underground and it's REALLY important to get proper pre-natal care, especially if you are an addict. You're not going to solve anything by throwing these women in jail.

[whoisjohngalt]

May 1, 2014 9:35:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Against.  treat drug use as an illness and not a crime.

This state gets more ridiculous as time goes on.

well, it IS against the law...... so it's "kind of" IS a crime......

[The Captain]

So we can charge a man with a crime if he engages in actions that cause harm to a fetus but we cry foul when the same standard is applied to the woman actually carrying them?

Just trying to understand the thought process here.

[zibazinski]

Kind of like "illegal" immigrants?

[Tennesseer]

May 1, 2014 9:36:49 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

May 1, 2014 9:35:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Against.  treat drug use as an illness and not a crime.

This state gets more ridiculous as time goes on.

well, it IS against the law...... so it's "kind of" IS a crime......

But if the mother is clean at the time of birth, do we charge her with a crime for past use?  We do not charge other people for past drug use.  We only charge folks with active posession of drugs.

[Tennesseer]

I really do not understand how some people, especially women, are okay with government constantly up your vaginas and wombs.

[whoisjohngalt]

May 1, 2014 9:38:27 GMT -5 The Captain said:

So we can charge a man with a crime if he engages in actions that cause harm to a fetus but we cry foul when the same standard is applied to the woman actually carrying them?

Just trying to understand the thought process here.

another double standard I could never understand -
a pregnant woman claims it's her body she can do whatever she wants, but then there is a lot of people who claim abortion is murder bc fetus is a person

so, are we suppose to protect the fetus or not?  it is a person?  do we charge a woman with "reckless endangerment"?

[zibazinski]

Well, has anyone seen the kids that result from moms who do this? I have.

[Deleted]

It seems pointless to jail her after he baby is born with defects.  It's not helping the child as jail is not a deterrent to an addict.  If you want to support government intervention in protecting the unborn against drug use, then start locking them up while pregnant.  At least then they're forced clean and sober and get prenatal care. 

Not saying I support this either, but it makes more sense.

[swamp]

May 1, 2014 9:47:33 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It seems pointless to jail her after he baby is born with defects.  It's not helping the child as jail is not a deterrent to an addict.  If you want to support government intervention in protecting the unborn against drug use, then start locking them up while pregnant.  At least then they're forced clean and sober and get prenatal care. 

Not saying I support this either, but it makes more sense.

you do realize you can get drugs in jail, right? 

[giramomma]

May 1, 2014 9:44:44 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

so, are we suppose to protect the fetus or not?  it is a person?  do we charge a woman with "reckless endangerment"?

I think if a fetus is a person like our law says, then pregnant women should get the right to vote twice, once for themselves and once for the baby. 

I mean, corporations can vote with their money, and they are people in the eyes of the law....

[whoisjohngalt]

May 1, 2014 9:48:36 GMT -5 giramomma said:

May 1, 2014 9:44:44 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

so, are we suppose to protect the fetus or not?  it is a person?  do we charge a woman with "reckless endangerment"?

I think if a fetus is a person like our law says, then pregnant women should get the right to vote twice, once for themselves and once for the baby. 

I mean, corporations can vote with their money, and they are people in the eyes of the law....

I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.  But then she should give up the right to say "my body", right?

[Tennesseer]

May 1, 2014 9:48:36 GMT -5 giramomma said:

May 1, 2014 9:44:44 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

so, are we suppose to protect the fetus or not?  it is a person?  do we charge a woman with "reckless endangerment"?

I think if a fetus is a person like our law says, then pregnant women should get the right to vote twice, once for themselves and once for the baby. 

I mean, corporations can vote with their money, and they are people in the eyes of the law....

But the bay-bee ìsn't 18 yet.    

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

This is going to be interesting. It will mean that doctors are going to have to report women who they suspect are addicts, which violates HIPAA.

Alternatively, those women who ARE addicts are not going to get any prenatal help whatsoever and they're going to wind up with an even worse problem.

[sheilaincali]

This whole thing is such a slippery slope. Yes- as a compassionate human being I hate the thought of babies being born addicted to drugs or with problems because of their mother's doing drugs. BUT- I think once you start opening the door to laws like this you start heading down a path that will be harder to come back from.

How strict do you go? Charge them for smoking cigarettes? Charge them for failing to attend pre-natal yoga? Charge them for eating more than 3 candy bars a week while pregnant? Sure NOW they claim it's to charge some crack whore who smokes crack during her pregnancy. NOW- that's the plan but when it comes to government the "plan" and the "reality" are never the same thing.  

What's that saying? The road to hell is paved with good intentions?  You start passing laws like this and before you know it they are charging women with murder for having a miscarriage after a fender bender car accident. I realize that's going extreme but I don't want government anywhere near my uterus.  This sort of law is a gateway law toward making abortions illegal and marginalizing women's rights.  

[NancysSummerSip]

For a minute, I misread the thread title; I thought it said, "Tennesseer will criminalize moms who use drugs while pregnant" and wondered why our intrepid poster would do such a thing.

It sounds sensationalized to me. And this article, from USA Today, expands on the issue a bit. Criminalization is not an automatic given; expectant mothers can get into treatment to avoid prosecution, though the number of programs is limited:

Tennessee women who use drugs while pregnant can be criminally charged for harm done to their infants beginning July 1.

Gov. Bill Haslam signed the legislation Tuesday after "extensive conversations with experts including substance abuse, mental health, health and law enforcement officials," he wrote in a statement. "The intent of this bill is to give law enforcement and district attorneys a tool to address illicit drug use among pregnant women through treatment programs."

The governor's decision comes after a week of mounting nationwide opposition from civil and reproductive rights groups. They argued that criminalization would drive vulnerable women away from drug addiction treatment.

"I understand the concerns about this bill, and I will be monitoring the impact of the law through regular updates with the court system and health professionals," Haslam wrote.

The law brings back criminalization, which lawmakers had eliminated two years ago as the state moved toward programs that incentivize expecting mothers to get into treatment.

Tennessee officials have wrestled with what to do about the growing numbers of infants born dependent on drugs and who often suffer from a condition known as neonatal abstinence syndrome.

The legislation would allow mothers to avoid criminal charges if they get into one of the state's few treatment programs. Haslam said he wants doctors to encourage women to get into treatment before delivering their babies so they can avoid charges.

The proposal also includes an unusual sunset provision, which means the criminal penalty will be in effect until 2016. At that time, lawmakers will have to revisit the issue.

[Tennesseer]

May 1, 2014 10:11:48 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

For a minute, I misread the thread title; I thought it said, "Tennesseer will criminalize moms who use drugs while pregnant" and wondered why our intrepid poster would do such a thing.

Nah. I have no desire to go digging and rummaging around women's vaginas and wombs.

I would though get medical treatment for those addicted to drugs instead of jailing them.

[The Captain]

So if a mom was putting booze in a kids bottle or giving them drugs to keep him quiet we'd all be ok with that?  I doubt there is a single poster here who would be.

Be we defend the right of a woman to deliberately pollute the system of a developing human being at their most vulnerable time by claiming her uterus has more rights than the child she choose to take to term? 

Again, just trying to understand the thought process.

There is a world of difference between a candy bar and heroin and we all know that.  Trying to claim anything else is just clouding the real question with hysterics IMHO.

[Deleted]

I think there should be mandatory abortions for any woman found using drugs while pregnant.

That is the way to get things changed. 

[Angel!]

There needs to be more help for these women.  I don't want a woman to go to jail after the fact, I want them to get help while pregnant.  It is a slippery slope, but somehow the fetus should be protected.  A woman can get charged for breastfeeding while drunk...at the very least maybe a woman should be locked up for the remainder of her pregnancy for using certain substances. 

And as far as why it is a crime when a man hurts a fetus, but not always when a women does it....basically a woman has a right to decide if the fetus is a person.  If she chooses to get an abortion, then in effect the fetus is not a person.  However, I do think if she intends to carry to term, then there should be some expectation that she not use meth or get drunk off her ass.

[hoops902]

::Charge them for eating more than 3 candy bars a week while pregnant? Sure NOW they claim it's to charge some crack whore who smokes crack during her pregnancy. NOW- that's the plan but when it comes to government the "plan" and the "reality" are never the same thing. ::

They're charging them for doing things that are already illegal for her to do.  They aren't taking an action that's already legal and making it a crime.

Why don't we just do away with ALL laws, because if you stretch it far enough you could just assume that hte government will then make everything illegal.  You could make the same kidn of argument for literally every single law on the books or proposed laws.

::You start passing laws like this and before you know it they are charging women with murder for having a miscarriage after a fender bender car accident.::

Here's the issue I have (and not saying you do or don't fall into this because I don't know how you feel):  I feel like many of the same people who wouldn't want mothers charged with murder because of a miscarriage in a fender bender  (assuming mom caused the fender bender through some illegal action) are some of the same people that want to charge someone else with murder if they run a red light, hit a mother in her car, and cause the woman to miscarry.  Like if someone who isn't the mother does harm to the fetus it should be a crime, but if the mother does the same thing they should be immune.

[midjd]

There is a world of difference between a candy bar and heroin and we all know that. 

I think you give our legislative officials too much credit. Sheila is right on the money with the slippery slope argument.

What about women who take legally-prescribed narcotics while pregnant? You fail the pee test the same as if you were using heroin.

What about women who are prescribed methadone?

I had a root canal at 5 months pregnant and my dentist gave me some Tylenol-3 with codeine. Should I have been thrown in jail?

At any rate, all this will do is prevent anyone who has used any type of drug from seeking prenatal care, which will just make the outcome worse for both mother and baby.

[hoops902]

::A woman can get charged for breastfeeding while drunk...at the very least maybe a woman should be locked up for the remainder of her pregnancy for using certain substances.::

Isn't part of this that nobody knows they were using the substances till the kid comes out messed up?

::basically a woman has a right to decide if the fetus is a person.::

I can't tell if you're saying this because this is what you think, or if you're trying to give the logic that is being used by some of these lunatics.

[hoops902]

::I think you give our legislative officials too much credit. Sheila is right on the money with the slippery slope argument.::

Down with all laws then, because any law could be taken down a slippery slope to a ridiculous conclusion.

::What about women who take legally-prescribed narcotics while pregnant? You fail the pee test the same as if you were using heroin.::

Then you aren't using illegal drugs and so this doesn't apply to you.  There's a different argument between "should this be a law" and "how do you enforce this law".