tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Apr 30, 2014 19:26:33 GMT -5
Update about Mom and BF. Lawyer said SOL. However daughter (animal rights lawyer) wrote stupid letter that says: Following our conversation on Friday...since you decided to no longer permit me to maintain the property expenses for (address), I will allow you to continue to residing at this house subject to the following conditions:
1. property taxes 2. property insurance 3. repairs and maitenance
------------------------------ Lawyer said...'whatever it means...it is just (he contained himself). Lawyer asked BF if he knew about this and he said deed was supposed to be written that she can only get the house after his death. Lawyer shook his head and said to keep this letter because it can be a valuable document in case of eviction. He said also that in Philadelphia area if daughter have no rental licence she is screwed. No one can evict anyone from this home unless daughter has rental license. It can take forever... BF called today asking daughter why did she take $2800 from his account and she said she had not taken any. Tomorrow mom and BF going to the bank to ask for investigation on who took the money if none of them took it. took...took...took...bitch...
When Mom asked her 'do you think Pop is crazy?' daughter said 'I am not waisting my time on talking to you, it is $50 per hour' and hung up. After telling my Mom she was a godsend for all these years...because Mom took him out of her hands when daughetr is busy with crazy mom of hers. (The one who refuse to take care of her father after his falling off the bridge accident that almost killed him. I do not blame her, she is mentally ill and probably was at that moment but no one recognized it.)
So, lawyer also said we need to write a letter to revoke her POA. Also letter to change the will. I wish I didn't have to but I am here. BF is constantly asking if me and DH can move in with them to help and protect them. (He is just old guy who trusts people still after all) Mom says daughter is ok, she is just bit out of it now. Mom loves her and always cooked vegetarian meals for her and she hopes daughter will come to her senses.
I am telling you that in case you can see something I can't see in it. Thanks to all.
What are we supposed to do to protect ourselves in old age days? Seems like everyone around us is to screw us. Daughter was my fav sister. I loved her. I am still kind of love her but she wouldn't talk to me. And she seemed loved us. But I think financial issues can be a bitch.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Apr 30, 2014 19:43:35 GMT -5
The problem started with the BF decided to screw his current wife. He should have divorced her and done an equitable property settlement. Instead, he tried to pull a fast one and it has come back to bite him.
Yes, revoking POA will make sure daughter can't spend his money. But if he can't handle his own finances, someone else should have POA to help him, or simply due to his age and poor health. And I don't think it should be you or your mother, because daughter or his legal wife or other relative might try to accuse you of theft or scamming an old man.
Maybe his bank has a trust department that can make sure his bills are paid.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Apr 30, 2014 20:00:08 GMT -5
The problem started with the BF decided to screw his current wife. He should have divorced her and done an equitable property settlement. Instead, he tried to pull a fast one and it has come back to bite him.
Yes, revoking POA will make sure daughter can't spend his money. But if he can't handle his own finances, someone else should have POA to help him, or simply due to his age and poor health. And I don't think it should be you or your mother, because daughter or his legal wife or other relative might try to accuse you of theft or scamming an old man.
Maybe his bank has a trust department that can make sure his bills are paid.
When his ex abandoned him she had enough money to buy her own condo. She had never worked. She came to US as a foreighner and he married her but he had no idea that she done that for a citizenship. As soon as she had gotten her way and his dough - she left him and went on her own. She is not claiming anything as we speak but I am assuming she is awaiting his death. I am not sure how is her and his daughter are going to split 'the profit' but I don't really care. My Mom had nothing of her own before she met him and she was living for us carrying for her grandchild and all...when she left living with him she became her own person with her own life. All she wants is to have him alive as long as he can be alive. It sucks that she seems the only one who wants that...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 20:03:48 GMT -5
Well, the property taxes, property insurance, and maintenance seem reasonable. The way the contract sounded she could have acted as an "agent" and updated everything. Maintenance is something lesser.
The BF sounds pathetic in my opinion. It is NOT pathetic to need help. I wrote checks for 90-something aunt for many years that she simply signed. She gave me her bills, we went through them to see that they were legitimate (sometimes I cautioned her about spending at XYZ), and I wrote the checks. She signed them. Easy peasy, but none of them really involved ME. She would have written them except she couldn't see to write at that point. Maybe it was somehow "better" that her daughter received copies of the statements. But if she hadn't and requested them years later, there was nothing personal about any check.
This guy wants to "substitute" you for his daughter, Loony. No, no, no. Please no. Take care of your mother as best you can, but this guy (and anything he has) is ultimately his daughter's issue.
I know this because I had the 90+ aunt who had a daughter who lived several states away. It would be easier on her for me to assume responsibility. I loved the aunt, but why should my money and energy gone toward preserving my cousin's inheritance. Short background: when the cousin's father died, her husband warned us not to "expect anything." So take my cousin's husband's (or the daughter's) lesson to HEART.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Apr 30, 2014 20:13:21 GMT -5
It is sad that his daughter seems more interested in his assets than his well being. But there's not much you can do about that. However, if she is treated like an enemy by you and your mother, she will see the two of you as enemies. That will not help the situation.
Try killing her with kindness. You all used to get along; maybe you can again. That might help in the long run.
In the short run, don't let your mother's finances get mixed up with BF's. I don't know if she gets social security or has any income, but she should pay only her own personal expenses and save what she can. When the BF passes away, she will not be entitled to any of his estate, unless he makes out a will leaving her something.
Did BF talk to the lawyer about a will?
I know you plan on having your mother come back to live with you after BF passes, so she won't be homeless.
Hopefully, BF has good years ahead of him.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Apr 30, 2014 20:16:54 GMT -5
Susana, he is not pathetic! He is old, still ambitious man. He is asking me and my Dh to move in with them so maybe this way we can protect his house. He is kind of like a child now. He is funny, able to do many tasks, however not able to focus and stay focused. He can peel vegetables and make his own cofee and play in casino but he is not good when it comes to logical thinking. At this particular moment he can be focused, and second away he is drifting to 'neverland' until you shake him up and talking to him. T hen he is ok and answering. And joking...really funny btw... I don't know what it is but when Mom is driving he is giving her good hell for mistakes she is making because he was a professional driver. He is sharp in some areas but he seems tired of all this life bullshit, however if something is not up his alley he is telling you off as he sees it. I don't know...but thanks anyway
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 30, 2014 20:27:46 GMT -5
This is just sad. Well, if he's so sharp why doesn't he get a divorce?
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Apr 30, 2014 20:34:31 GMT -5
This is just sad. Well, if he's so sharp why doesn't he get a divorce? zib, he is sharp in some ways but not in others...I am unable to explain it to anyone. he is sharp to tell jokes...talking money and all but not when it comes to anyting serious. Idk... He is still asking Mom where had his wallet went from his pants when he was delivered to a hospital 2 years ago. he knows exactly how much money he had. but that is his main focus. Always been. Not too much else he cares about. Though he is kind to my Mom. He says he can't live without her. That is for sure now
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 30, 2014 20:45:53 GMT -5
He had 7 years before he became mentally too off to do right by your mother. She probably didnt even get any jewelry or nice vacations out of him. I hope her personal items are in your house and not his because his heirs can say they are part of the house and now theirs. She can't prove otherwise. He should have at least been giving her as much cash as he could to try to make up to her for caregiving for him while leaving everything to his legall heirs. You can only blame ignorance and immigrant for so long.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 23:15:21 GMT -5
What are we supposed to do to protect ourselves in old age days? Seems like everyone around us is to screw us. Daughter was my fav sister. I loved her. I am still kind of love her but she wouldn't talk to me. And she seemed loved us. But I think financial issues can be a bitch. You don't give anyone a POA when you are still coherent! If you want to write a durable POA just in case, then you keep it at the attorney's office with instructions on when he can provide the document to identified family members. And you don't give your property to a child to avoid giving it to the ex-to-be unless you are actually giving it to the child. How he thought he had life estate in the property without a deed that said that is not really understandable.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 30, 2014 23:18:29 GMT -5
Sometimes people do stupid things to avoid taxes or to try to screw someone else.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 1, 2014 7:03:28 GMT -5
It is sad that his daughter seems more interested in his assets than his well being. If the daughter is more interested in the assets than him, that's sad and wrong. Not defending her at all, but just pointing out - we may not know enough of the story to reach that conclusion. The daughter may be posting something like this on another board:
"I love my dad so much, but I'm worried about him and don't know what to do. Years ago, he and my mom had a messy separation. They didn't actually ever get a divorce and he became obsessed with hiding assets to prevent her from getting them. Part of this was developing an elaborate scheme to transfer his house into my name. I wasn't thrilled with this - I'm a lawyer, have my own place and also know that me "owning" this house with him still living in it not only will cost me lots of money to maintain but also expose me to liability I don't need - but he was so insistent, it was easier just to go along with it. Even though I hoped that would calm him down so we could go back to talking about things other than money, it's only made things worse. He's had a few strokes so has memory issues which have also added to the mess. He created all these complicated things and now doesn't even remember what they are and how they work.
Similar to many older people with memory loss, he is slightly paranoid, gets very focused on one odd thing and totally forgets what he's done or asked me to do. An example was when he asked me to pay $2800 from his checking account to pay the special tax assessment on his house; he keeps forgetting what the payment was, keeps "rediscovering" he's "missing" $2800 and calling me to accuse me of stealing from him! Like he calls me all the time to ask about where the money from his wallet is from when he was admitted to the hospital two years ago. I've explained hundreds of times that we got the money back at the end of the hospital stay but he forgets. It's like that awful movie, Groundhog Day. It's even worse because I'm not only sad to see him like this but I'm hurt that he thinks I would do something like that. The doctors have told me this is his memory loss and common among older people, but it still really hurts.
Added into the mix, he has a live in girlfriend who is nice enough, but doesn't really understand what's going on (English skills aren't great and she's older as well) who has started to involve her entire crazy, extended, misguided family in this mess. She makes dad very happy, so I'm glad she's there, but her role is really just happy sweet companion. I still have to do all the stuff like driving them to doctors appointments, paying bills, solving financial and legal issues, etc., which is tough for me given I work full time. She lives with dad but dad pays for everything and now she's trying to get involved in all the elaborate financial arrangements dad set up. So I'm dealing with dad's paranoia and memory loss plus this companion and her extended family's attempts to horn in and try to "fix" things. I can't tell if she's also trying to get control over dad's money, but of course that's a possibility so I'm keeping my eye on that. She and her family are now adding to the misery by working dad all up and telling him that he's being cheated. So when he forgets what's happened and gets paranoid, they don't have the background to understand what actually happened and feed his paranoia rather than help him understand what's going on. It's all spiraling out of control, it's miserable and it takes hours and hours of my time each week; time I don't have because I need to be working to pay my own bills. Of course, he and the girlfriend have all the time in the world to fixate, call me 15 times a day to accuse me of stealing and just generally obsess about whatever new, paranoid thought he has.
It's such a mess. I miss my dad so much. He doesn't even talk to me about anything other than money any more. No asking about my life, my children, what's going on - just accusations and money. So I spend hours taking care of his financial messes only to have him spend hours screaming crazy insults at me. To top it all off, the girlfriend's extended family is now taking him around to lawyers to see how they can get control of his money and there's talk of him moving them all into the house and having him support all of them. So now I may have to deal with litigation on top of it all! In self-defense because I just can't do this any more, to try to put in some boundaries and also show how silly it is to only talk money with each other, I started to tell dad that I'm going to charge him $50 an hour to talk about money or drive him around. Hopefully, he'll realize that makes no sense and we can just go back to talking about the things that matter - each other, our family and life... but not money."
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on May 1, 2014 7:23:01 GMT -5
Great post milee! Likely very close to the truth!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 1, 2014 7:30:37 GMT -5
It sounds very reasonable.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 1, 2014 7:30:59 GMT -5
I'm really sorry, Tloonya, for what's happening. To me, at this point, the best thing to do is listen to the attorney and do as he says. Help your mom and her BF to understand what the attorney is telling all of you, and help them to coordinate the business of doing as he recommends. That's really the best you can do, at this point. What's happened in the past isn't what's relevant now. Getting things straightened out for your mom and the BF is. I sure hope it all works out for the best for all of you.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2014 7:49:22 GMT -5
BF called today asking daughter why did she take $2800 from his account and she said she had not taken any. He didn't ask her that already? He ran off to the attorney without even knowing that she made the withdrawal? Or did she make the withdrawal to pay property taxes, so she is answering that she didn't take the money, it was use to pay the dad's expenses.
Did he think he 'gave' daughter the house and then got to live there for free because she was getting the future benefit of equity? What is unreasonable about him paying the costs of property tax, insurance, repairs?
The more you write, the more it sounds like BF is confused.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 1, 2014 9:20:37 GMT -5
What are we supposed to do to protect ourselves in old age days? Seems like everyone around us is to screw us. Daughter was my fav sister. I loved her. I am still kind of love her but she wouldn't talk to me. And she seemed loved us. But I think financial issues can be a bitch. You don't give anyone a POA when you are still coherent! If you want to write a durable POA just in case, then you keep it at the attorney's office with instructions on when he can provide the document to identified family members. And you don't give your property to a child to avoid giving it to the ex-to-be unless you are actually giving it to the child. How he thought he had life estate in the property without a deed that said that is not really understandable. Seriously, why does she have a POA when he's legally competent? He just needs to revoke that sucker now, write his own checks (there are even elder care services that he can pay a reasonable amount to help with this), and get his relationship with his daughter out of the financial arena.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 1, 2014 10:16:13 GMT -5
And you don't give your property to a child to avoid giving it to the ex-to-be unless you are actually giving it to the child. How he thought he had life estate in the property without a deed that said that is not really understandable.
There are ways of bequeathing a property to someone after your death. I know, I just signed the papers for it last week.
Loony....did the daughter draw up these papers? If she did, isn't this considered a conflict of interest? Could something like this be overturned?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 1, 2014 10:16:35 GMT -5
To be honest, it sounds like he's on the shaky side of still competent.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 1, 2014 11:11:28 GMT -5
To be honest, it sounds like he's on the shaky side of still competent. I assumed with all this talk, that he was not legally competent and so couldn't change things. But Loony indicated that the lawyer told him to revoke the POA and have the will changed. That means the lawyer at least thought he was competent. So, the real question is, is he or isn't he? If he is, he needs to do those changes, revoke POA, and perhaps have his competency certified (however they do that!). If he's not, then the situation is entirely different. I'm on this point.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on May 1, 2014 13:28:04 GMT -5
A medical doctor can assess competency most of the time. Mainly in the area of being able to drive. There is a series of questions they can ask to determine if the person is thinking clearly or not.
How I know this is when my late brother was so ill, they would ask him that group of questions before releasing him from the hospital.
A medicine review check up and disguise the real reason for going in. Tell the Dr. in advance of his forgetfulness, what has been done, and accusations. Also you suspect some elder abuse coming in the form of GF family moving in. --------- My late brother made the wrong choice in putting the neighbor lady on his checking account. Some of the money was recouped by the attorney but I have no idea how much was skimmed. I told my late brother I could handle his bill paying from out of state, which he refused.
--------
I am thinking the GF family are going to move in and take over. You would think they would treat the person kindly but they will probably mentally and physically abuse the man until he will do anything for them.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on May 1, 2014 15:01:36 GMT -5
What are we supposed to do to protect ourselves in old age days? Seems like everyone around us is to screw us. Daughter was my fav sister. I loved her. I am still kind of love her but she wouldn't talk to me. And she seemed loved us. But I think financial issues can be a bitch. You don't give anyone a POA when you are still coherent! If you want to write a durable POA just in case, then you keep it at the attorney's office with instructions on when he can provide the document to identified family members. I had MIL give DH and me Financial and Health POAs when she was getting really loopy last year. It has been very helpful for DH to follow up on some of her health issues.
So far the only time we've used the financial POA has been to discuss her tax situation with our mutual CPA. But I wanted it in place because I want to avoid making her go to court and having her proven incompetent. It would be expensive and humiliating to her.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2014 15:05:10 GMT -5
A medical doctor can assess competency most of the time. Mainly in the area of being able to drive. There is a series of questions they can ask to determine if the person is thinking clearly or not. How I know this is when my late brother was so ill, they would ask him that group of questions before releasing him from the hospital. A medicine review check up and disguise the real reason for going in. Tell the Dr. in advance of his forgetfulness, what has been done, and accusations. Also you suspect some elder abuse coming in the form of GF family moving in. --------- My late brother made the wrong choice in putting the neighbor lady on his checking account. Some of the money was recouped by the attorney but I have no idea how much was skimmed. I told my late brother I could handle his bill paying from out of state, which he refused. -------- I am thinking the GF family are going to move in and take over. You would think they would treat the person kindly but they will probably mentally and physically abuse the man until he will do anything for them. You do realize that this is Loony's thread, and she is the daughter of the GF? Lol.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on May 1, 2014 16:41:35 GMT -5
No I can't keep track. I thought she was the man's daughter.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 1, 2014 17:08:12 GMT -5
It seems like it makes very little difference to her or her mother that they have no blood or legal standing whatsoever.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on May 1, 2014 21:10:21 GMT -5
You don't give anyone a POA when you are still coherent! If you want to write a durable POA just in case, then you keep it at the attorney's office with instructions on when he can provide the document to identified family members. I had MIL give DH and me Financial and Health POAs when she was getting really loopy last year. It has been very helpful for DH to follow up on some of her health issues.
So far the only time we've used the financial POA has been to discuss her tax situation with our mutual CPA. But I wanted it in place because I want to avoid making her go to court and having her proven incompetent. It would be expensive and humiliating to her.
I have financial and medical POA for both of my parents. They are both relatively healthy and competent. Not everyone is a thief lying in wait to steal their parents assets. That being said, given the OPs history of antagonistic/clueless posts, I'm not so sure the daughter is the bad guy she is trying to make her out to be especially since she is out of the loop and the father/mother don't seem to understand "anything" because they are immigrants (again, based on the OPs attempt to alleviate any responsibility on the fathers part).
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on May 2, 2014 8:59:49 GMT -5
It seems like it makes very little difference to her or her mother that they have no blood or legal standing whatsoever. The whole scenario sort of gives new meaning to the idea of "in one ear and out the other," doesn't it?
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on May 2, 2014 11:23:28 GMT -5
Update about Mom and BF. Lawyer said SOL. However daughter (animal rights lawyer) wrote stupid letter that says: Following our conversation on Friday...since you decided to no longer permit me to maintain the property expenses for (address), I will allow you to continue to residing at this house subject to the following conditions: 1. property taxes 2. property insurance 3. repairs and maitenence You are not family & have no rights. He has a smart dtr who wrote a great letter showing how she is actually looking out for their best interests. Dad gets to stay in his home without being concerned that his gf will raid it. DD is guaranteeing that. Not what your mom or you intended to do, but she's guaranteeing it. Maybe she is protecting her inheritance and her mom's [his wife's] interests but that's HER right
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 2, 2014 11:26:13 GMT -5
I am still kind of love her but she wouldn't talk to me
I wouldn't talk to you either. You seem hell bent on sticking your nose where it does not belong. And by doing so are making the dad even more confused and driving a rift between him and his daughter. He is not YOUR father, I would be beyond pissed if you took it upon yourself to take MY father to a lawyer to discuss a situation that you have no clue about or have any remote business discussing. I'm not going to give you anything you can use as fuel against me to further fan the flames and justify to yourself that you have a right to be involved.
Honestly what I'd do is kick your mom out. I'd have every legal right to do so. No "caretaker" is worth this level of drama. I'd also make it clear what's going to happen if you dare show up on his doorstep again.
Then once you and your mother are out of the picture I would work on repairing the relationship with my father and cleaning up the financial mess that HE created.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 2, 2014 12:58:13 GMT -5
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