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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 16:10:40 GMT -5
I may be getting 2 girls tonight, sisters that are 13 and 14. They have been living with their grandparents who apparently are drunks and the grandfather punched one of the girls last night. They informed the school today and CAS was called. I was called as plan B, first choice they place the girls with family, but the worker didn't feel too confident about that working out. I have agreed to them coming for the weekend and then we will assess, I still need their background info. Wish me luck.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 26, 2015 16:12:37 GMT -5
Good luck later! Do you ahve room for 2 more right now? I thought you had 3 bedrooms and 2 were in use (you and GW) how does that work in Canada?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 17:43:15 GMT -5
I have a 4 bedroom place. It would mean using my guest room but that's no big deal. I haven't heard from them yet so it is starting to look like it might not happen. Maybe they found some family members. I have plans with a friend tonight so I guess I will go but keep my phone close. I feel like I will be on call.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 26, 2015 19:14:00 GMT -5
Good luck Later! And thank you for being "on call"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 22:34:10 GMT -5
No call, they must have found family.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Feb 26, 2015 22:39:48 GMT -5
You know you would have been there for them if needed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 2:41:07 GMT -5
Later congrats to GW and to you! Will she be moving far away?
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 27, 2015 11:15:59 GMT -5
So, the other shoe continued to drop all week. Tuesday, we were still grumpy and attitude-y. I spent 30 minutes with Pop Tart, who was complaining that she "had to do more than" and "didn't get as much as" Cupcake, at which point I had to remind her, she is 4.5 years OLDER than Cupcake. I realize that Pop Tart is small and Cupcake it tall, so they are almost the same size, and Pop Tart plays really well with kids younger than her, but in her mind, they were supposed to be equals. I looked at her and said, by the time Cupcake is the age you are right now, you will be 16. And 16 seems a long way off, because it IS. I then pulled out the BB card, and was like - would you expect BB (her younger sister) to do that? Remember, Cupcake is less than a year older than BB. I also reminded her that while she did have more responsibilities, she also has more privileges - like her own computer, a later bedtime, getting to take a shower instead of a bath, etc.
Wednesday, I missed the breakdown. It was over by the time I got home. C said it was pretty cathartic, and the rest of Wednesday went well.
Last night went well until bedtime. We're working with Cupcake on reading, and so C would ask her to read like one word a page in Green Eggs and Ham (and always an easy word that she could sound out). As always, first few pages, when she's paying attention go great. Then she starts to lose focus and it becomes a battle. She'd also started bedtime off with demands - you will do this, Pop Tart will do this, etc. She was told no more demands, and C explained what that meant. In the end, she earned herself a punishment bigger than a 5 minute time out. She got grounded for tomorrow, and since she doesn't care about no TV (which for Pop Tart is the worst punishment ever), C took away a couple of her toys for the day. 15 minutes of crying and you're a meanie followed, I think until she fell asleep. The problem is, in previous homes, physical discipline was used, so in her mind, unless she's getting spanked/hit in some form, she's not really in trouble. We can't spank her (and don't want to spank her), so trying to get across that she's in trouble and that this isn't funny, is a little difficult. Pop Tart (who had also had attitude last night and was one step away from getting grounded herself) then thought it was her place to question the punishment. C talked to her about it, but at some point, I walked into her room and told him to stop having the conversation. I looked at Pop Tart and told her, she was not Cupcake's parent. We were Cupcake's parents. And she has no say in how Cupcake is punished. She then complained that she wouldn't be able to sleep (because Cupcake was still crying at that point). I basically told her she'd figure it out (at the time, Pop Tart's door was open and her music wasn't on, plus her lights out time wasn't for another 30 minutes). And in truth, less than 5 minutes after we left Pop Tart's room, Cupcake had stopped crying.
We're also at the point where we want to tell Pop Tart no more play dates. She comes home from her friends' houses and is always surly and moody - basically mad that the play date had to end. And we're like - you need to fix that attitude, or we'll just stop play dates all together.
The other thing we've harped on this week is the reflexive "No". Us asking or telling them to do something and the first word out of mouths is "no". Usually, we give the kids three chances, 4th time means punishment (and they still get mad that they get punished when they "stop" right after the punishment is handed down - that's not fair, apparently, even though they've been told exactly what will happen). But I think tonight, after the first reflexive "No", I will state that if there is a single other one, they will both be grounded for Saturday - no screen time, no Cupcake sleeping on Pop Tart's room, etc.
What I've told C is that hopefully, having gotten into this double testing stage fairly quickly (the honeymoon period was only 2 weeks), we'll get out of it fairly quickly. We'll see.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 11:19:18 GMT -5
As long as she is not being destructive just ignore it. Seriously, it's not really cool to try to control people's emotional state. But don't reward the bad attitude with extra attention.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 11:22:24 GMT -5
Sorry but I think you are trying to exert too much control over her behaviour. Just say no to the demands and only do a few pages of the reading. She probably doesn't have a whole lot of control over losing attention.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 11:24:35 GMT -5
This is the point where Cupcake is figuring out where your buttons are. Take it from someone that made that mistake, do not let her get that info! You need to not react to stuff.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 27, 2015 11:26:35 GMT -5
laterbloomer - honestly, not the emotional state we're trying to control, it's the actions that accompany it. If she were surly, but doing what was asked, that would be one thing. But she's surly and ignores us/refuses to do what is asked of her, and is generally meaner to everyone around her. We talk all the time in our house about we feel how we feel and that's okay - we can't control that, but what we can control are our actions. And she needs to work on controlling her actions.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 27, 2015 11:43:21 GMT -5
laterbloomer - Let me say that I felt like crap last night and tried to go to bed at 7pm. Until I interrupted C and Pop Tart with the reminder that Pop Tart is NOT a parent, I actually stayed out of the whole thing last night because I knew I wasn't in a spot to remain calm. C did remain calm. Basically, when Cupcake is told she has to do something, she likes to respond by telling other people they have to do something as well, making demands. This really comes out at bedtime, when she has to brush her teeth and go to bed. Basically she goes, fine, I'll go to bed, but you have to do this, Pop Tart has to do this, etc. Last night, she was told (more than once) that she did not get to order people around. She could make requests, but they did have to be phrased as questions, and that the answer might be no. When her attention was clearly no longer on the book, he did stop reading, he had Pop Tart give her a hug and then leave the room. Cupcake decided she needed to demand that Pop Tart come back in the room, and started to get up to go after her. C made her get back in bed, and that's when he told her (again) that she wasn't going to get what she wanted, so she needed to stop demanding it, and if not, she was actually in trouble. She kept it up, so a couple of her favorite toys were taken away for a day.
Again, she has to learn what being in trouble means when it's not being hit. She is testing our stated commitment to her that we won't hit her. She's also very stubborn and realizing that there are some things we just can't "make" her do. Earlier this week, she simply refused to get on the school bus in the morning. C had to drive her to school, and then she refused to get out of the car. He had to park and walk her to her class line. She then refused to get in line and walk in with her class, so C had to walk her in. (Now, she has separation anxiety issues, and we were warned to expect things like this. She's not getting punished for them - this is just an example of ways in which she's testing.) The teacher then had her call and talk to C at morning break, and the rest of the day went fine.
But she is testing limits and pushing at the boundaries, and we can't keep saying "do that again and you'll be in trouble". At some point, she actually has to get in trouble, and that trouble has to mean something.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 27, 2015 12:23:19 GMT -5
As long as she is not being destructive just ignore it. Seriously, it's not really cool to try to control people's emotional state. But don't reward the bad attitude with extra attention. Can we explore this a bit more please? I freely admit to attempting to redirect both DH and DD's emotional state frequently. I've seen how some moods, feelings, etc tend to be self-cycling and create a feedback loop. I would prefer that loop be positive rather than negative. Take for example when DD happens to be in one of her moods. Now there is nothing wrong with your feelings, but everyone (including the surly tween) feels better when we are not grumping and stomping around. You forget to turn in your homework (multiple times) your grade slips, DH takes away your smart phone and internet priviledges and all hell breaks loose. There's wails, tears, life is not fair, you are so mean etc. Now I could let that continue and have DH and DD feed off each other and just ratchet up the negative energy or I could separate them, remind DH who is the adult and who is the child, and let them both cool off for a bit. I then go and talk to DD (no frowning, nope, you cannot smile when I come in here to talk to you, no, No, NO your lips are turning up aaack! you're smiling!!!) hugs then when she's had a chance to re-set we discuss everyone's behavior in a rational manner and agree as to what is appropriate actions and the timeframe. I don't see this as negative. In general the household is much more harmonious when we are in agreement and that can only be achieved when we are talking with each other. Is this wrong?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 17:56:33 GMT -5
As long as she is not being destructive just ignore it. Seriously, it's not really cool to try to control people's emotional state. But don't reward the bad attitude with extra attention. Can we explore this a bit more please? I freely admit to attempting to redirect both DH and DD's emotional state frequently. If you have to do it frequently your method is not really working. Sounds to me like everyone is getting an emotional payoff from the situation. Your DH gets out of having to deal with your DD, DD gets to throw a fit and then have you come in and jolly her out of it and you get to go in and feel like the hero. I'm guessing that removing yourself from their vicinity and letting them experience the full unpleasantness of their behaviour a couple of times would inspire them to find a different way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 17:59:58 GMT -5
laterbloomer - honestly, not the emotional state we're trying to control, it's the actions that accompany it. If she were surly, but doing what was asked, that would be one thing. But she's surly and ignores us/refuses to do what is asked of her, and is generally meaner to everyone around her. We talk all the time in our house about we feel how we feel and that's okay - we can't control that, but what we can control are our actions. And she needs to work on controlling her actions. The PRIDE course I took explain how getting an emotional reaction from the adult gives the child a sense of control. Take it from someone that has learned the hard way, you announce your buttons to a kid that clearly and you are going to be having them pushed frequently. It's a case of even a negative reaction is a win for her.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 18:10:34 GMT -5
Good luck. From what I was taught in the course I took when I was having so many challenges with LGW the most important thing for the child to learn is that they can not control you, and forcing you to punish them is actually controlling you. There is a method of being persistent in the young child doing what they must do, and part of that is keeping those things to a minimum. I reacted to LGW in a similar way as you are with cupcake and I got the opposite of what I was going for.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 27, 2015 18:13:54 GMT -5
Following this discussion with great interest (especially since I have a two year old and redirecting her emotional state is not only okay, but IMO absolutely necessary at this stage in her development) but I have an unrelated question for the foster parents.
Do you guys have any good resources, preferably books, for people who are thinking of becoming foster or adoptive parents?
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 27, 2015 19:10:59 GMT -5
laterbloomer - we also took PRIDE training - required to get our foster care license. And I agree, if she were actually getting an emotional response from us, she would be learning. But what she got last night was a statement of the rules, and a reminder that if she didn't follow them, she would get in trouble. She got a couple more reminders, and then, when she still refused to follow the rules, she was punished in a calm manner. There was no yelling or screaming on C's part. He calmly stated that she was now grounded and he took a couple of toys from her room. After that, he left her room, and she essentially spent the next 10-15 minutes yelling that he was a meany and crying, but we didn't respond to that, and she fell asleep.
Firebird - If they can find the PRIDE training resources online, that would be good. Otherwise, sign up for info sessions or trainings put on by the state or licensed agencies. I don't know that there's a really good book about being a foster parent. There's lots of personal stories/memoirs out there, but every child is so different, even when they seem to have a lot in common, that I don't know that there is a really good book about the process. There are also some really interesting documentaries out there that try to show perspective from both kids and parents points of view. They aren't always easy to watch, though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 20:56:51 GMT -5
Firebird the extra course they sent me to for LGW was called Triple P Positive Parenting Programshanendoah you have cross reference the situations I responded to. Pop Tart is the one pushing your buttons by being surly when she doesn't like what has happened. Cupcake is the one forcing you to punish her. Anyway, I've given my views. Take it or leave it. I wish you all the luck in the world. ETA - I read back and see that I did say cup cake was learning the buttons. Sorry, I was thinking pop tart.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 21:12:03 GMT -5
I would like to point out that the part I quoted, Shane said that Pop Tart was told to change her attitude. She added the info about behaviour later. And there is a developmental difference between a 2 year old and an 11 year old.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 27, 2015 22:29:16 GMT -5
Later, I wasn't trying to imply that a 2 year old and 11 year old were developmentally the same- actually, just the opposite. Because they're in such different deceptions stages, the discussion interests me. After all, Babybird will be 11 someday
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:49:34 GMT -5
Later, I wasn't trying to imply that a 2 year old and 11 year old were developmentally the same- actually, just the opposite. Because they're in such different deceptions stages, the discussion interests me. After all, Babybird will be 11 someday Okay, one of the biggest things both PRIDE and Triple P emphasized was not to get dragged into power struggles with the kids. Just getting into the struggle means you've lost. One huge disadvantage that foster parents, and step parents, have is that they weren't there when the kids were born. Most parents start their relationship with their kids always saying yes and providing for needs, feeding when hungry, changing diapers when needed, rocking when unhappy...and they grow into the disciplining stage after a foundation of unconditional love has been established.(That's the perfect world version of course) Fosters and steps come into the kids lives when they are older and can fall into the trap of making the discipline their first concern, before establishing that unconditional love with the kid. I know that is exactly what I did with LGW. And our relationship became one long power struggle. I had to learn to not take that part as seriously as I was. It was too late for me and LGW but I plan to keep it in mind for the next kid.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 27, 2015 23:34:53 GMT -5
Oops, that was supposed to say DEVELOPMENTAL stages, not deception stages. Stupid smartphone.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 15:05:50 GMT -5
So they called again about the possibility of my taking the 2 girls. They will just be entering care, they called for help, they have no history of behaviours and they are right in my prime age range. GW has asked me not to take in anyone else until she leaves for university. I am not going to agree to that but I find it difficult. I'm looking for reassurance that it isn't reasonable for her to ask that of me.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 4, 2015 15:25:04 GMT -5
So they called again about the possibility of my taking the 2 girls. They will just be entering care, they called for help, they have no history of behaviours and they are right in my prime age range. GW has asked me not to take in anyone else until she leaves for university. I am not going to agree to that but I find it difficult. I'm looking for reassurance that it isn't reasonable for her to ask that of me. I don't think it is reasonable, later. You've given so much to GW. You've been there for her from day one. Now, the time is quickly approaching when GW will step out into the adult world, as a woman on her own. You'll still be there as back-up and support, but she's got to be her own woman now and you have to go on with the life you wish to live. If you want to take these girls in, that should be your decision, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 15:26:03 GMT -5
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 4, 2015 15:35:22 GMT -5
I think the way she feels is understandable.
But no it isn't reasonable. You are a foster parent and it's your "job" to take in other children who are in need. GW has benefited immensely from being under your care and is about to leave the nest. It's time to give that opportunity to other girls.
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Post by taz157 on Mar 4, 2015 15:36:37 GMT -5
So they called again about the possibility of my taking the 2 girls. They will just be entering care, they called for help, they have no history of behaviours and they are right in my prime age range. GW has asked me not to take in anyone else until she leaves for university. I am not going to agree to that but I find it difficult. I'm looking for reassurance that it isn't reasonable for her to ask that of me. I don't think it is reasonable, later. You've given so much to GW. You've been there for her from day one. Now, the time is quickly approaching when GW will step out into the adult world, as a woman on her own. You'll still be there as back-up and support, but she's got to be her own woman now and you have to go on with the life you wish to live. If you want to take these girls in, that should be your decision, IMO. Very well said mmhmm.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 4, 2015 15:40:01 GMT -5
Sure, hon. Let's face it - we'd all like to be special snowflakes. I understand where GW is coming from; however, that's just not how life works. She needs to be the young lady you've helped prepare her to be and welcome the opportunity to give that same chance to these two girls. If she'll look at it that way, it will serve her well throughout her life.
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