vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 24, 2011 20:36:57 GMT -5
Often by asshole Americans telling them that their religion isn't worthy of respect and that they're all terrorists. I'd be a terrorist too if that's what I was constantly assaulted by. You usually have better arguments - this one doesn't make a lot of sense Do words matter - or do they not
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2011 20:38:40 GMT -5
Why hasn't Fox posted anything about this since their written article (quoting the Daily Mail) February 20th and the video February 22? No other American news source seems to have anything/know anything about this coming visit. The Times of London has anything about it either.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 24, 2011 20:40:24 GMT -5
"...........he will lead a demonstration calling on Muslims to establish the Sharia law across America...."
I wonder if holding a rally in front of the White House calling on Muslims to replace our Constitution with Sharia comes under the Sedition Act, and what is that if not breaking the law?
So, if it is known ahead of time that the message will be seditious, does he still have a right to deliver the message?
With Al Jazeera cameras rolling for the folks back home and the White House for a backdrop?
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 24, 2011 20:44:29 GMT -5
I don't recall ever saying that words don't matter, to be honest. But their power is entirely in the ears of the listener (so to speak).
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 24, 2011 20:45:59 GMT -5
Anjem Choudary: Flag of Islam Will Fly Over White House
I thought he looked familiar.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 24, 2011 20:47:24 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 20:51:50 GMT -5
Wow!! How many videos have we collectively posted from the same guy saying the same thing in different interviews?? And some people still do not get it??
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2011 20:55:22 GMT -5
Reply 124 said nothing about his trip to Washington. So now we are back to Fox and the Daily Mail.
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Feb 24, 2011 21:14:25 GMT -5
Sedition Act
Had to look that one up. Sedition Act, or actually part of the Espionage Act, seems to be only applicable during a time of war. Right, the US is still technically at war but the act was repealed in 1920 so nothing doing there. I came across another act, the Smith Act, but that one seems to target good patriotic Americans who advocate the overthrow of clearly corrupted government which has occupied DC for 100 years or more. In the end though any law on the books is just pieces of printed paper. Things will get done.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 24, 2011 21:21:26 GMT -5
Sedition ActHad to look that one up. Sedition Act, or actually part of the Espionage Act, seems to be only applicable during a time of war. Right, the US is still technically at war but the act was repealed in 1920 so nothing doing there. I came across another act, the Smith Act, but that one seems to target good patriotic Americans who advocate the overthrow of clearly corrupted government which has occupied DC for 100 years or more. In the end though any law on the books is just pieces of printed paper. Things will get done. Bottom line - just deny him entry to the country as an undesirable
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 21:29:46 GMT -5
"how do you think some of these young jihadists get motivated"
Not because one idiot speaks up... as i said earlier... it motivates when that's the only voice they hear... and when the actions of those around them seem to back up and support what they hear...
You don't silence someone by forcing them to shut up... this is how you make someone a martyr... You silence someone by drowing him out... not just with words but with actions... that there is a better way...
Really though... what are you so afraid of? That his ideas are more powerful? more attractive? better than yours?... is that man really so scary? You are giving him more power, and his words more weight than they ever deserved... and you are right in that some people will read your fear, and be drawn to him... so don't fear him...
I'm reminded of a line in Blue Sword... where a woman looks not at her cousin, but over off to the side, over her shoulder, with the air that there is a dead window fly on the windowsill, and why doesn't someone sweep it away... its an art you should learn...
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 24, 2011 21:36:26 GMT -5
how do you think some of these young jihadists get motivated Not because one idiot speaks up... as i said earlier... it motivates when that's the only voice they hear... and when the actions of those around them seem to back up and support what they hear... You don't silence someone by forcing them to shut up... this is how you make someone a martyr... You silence someone by drowing him out... not just with words but with actions... that there is a better way... Really though... what are you so afraid of? That his ideas are more powerful? more attractive? better than yours?... is that man really so scary? You are giving him more power, and his words more weight than they ever deserved... and you are right in that some people will read your fear, and be drawn to him... so don't fear him... I'm reminded of a line in Blue Sword... where a woman looks not at her cousin, but over off to the side, over her shoulder, with the air that there is a dead window fly on the windowsill, and why doesn't someone sweep it away... its an art you should learn... I do get what you are telling me - I don't think you understand what they hear constantly in the mosques I also know that the USA does more than any other country in the world - both publicly and privately in humanitarian aid And that both Christians and Jews - while not perfect - are very charitable and reach out to others of other and no religion (I also think the Hindus probably do so also) - it seems to fall on deaf ears way to often in the Islamic world - and they believe that non-Muslims are infidels and not worthy Once again - he is not in the USA - so why give him admittance just to stir the pot - that makes no sense
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 21:39:40 GMT -5
You are spewing propoganda again... not all muslims are Islamic Extremists... any more than all Christians are Branch Davidians...
So... how many conversations in a mosque have you made yourself privy to? exactly?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 24, 2011 21:43:04 GMT -5
No, you make someone a martyr by killing them. Nobody said to kill the man, just to show him the door.
I am not worried about radical islam in the United States. We are only "PC" to a point. We aren't to be triffled with. And while we are longsuffering-- we've been tolerating radical islam since the 1800's-- no "flag of islam" is flying over anything here.
During the heady days of the NAZI party in Germany and the thriving German-American Bund (Federation); during the days of sputnik and Kruschev banging his shoe on the podium at the UN threatening, "We will bury you"-- those were threats.
Isamofascism isn't a threat. They aren't well-organized. They have no real state support. They frankly haven't the brains.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 24, 2011 21:45:22 GMT -5
You are spewing propaganda again... not all Muslims are Islamic Extremists... any more than all Christians are Branch Davidians... So... how many conversations in a mosque have you made yourself privy to? exactly? you really need to do more research - the mosques and schools - very often Saudi funded and wahabist - are extremely anti-western, anti everything non-Muslim and they really denigrate women and it is not propaganda - the propaganda would be that Islam is a wonderful life
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 21:46:43 GMT -5
If he is denied entrance... fine. But if he's here... what does denying him the freedom of speech do but 1) draw more attention to him? (increase the power of his words) and 2) give him another example of how we are hypocritical?
I'm saying a better way, if you really didn't want people to attend his rally and hear his words... is to ignore him completely... throw your own party... and make it bigger and better and louder than his...
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 24, 2011 21:50:25 GMT -5
If he is denied entrance... fine. But if he's here... what does denying him the freedom of speech do but 1) draw more attention to him? (increase the power of his words) and 2) give him another example of how we are hypocritical? I'm saying a better way, if you really didn't want people to attend his rally and hear his words... is to ignore him completely... throw your own party... and make it bigger and better and louder than his... Well - I agree with you on this. I just don't see the wisdom of allowing him access to our country if we know his reason for entry is to protest
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 21:52:03 GMT -5
lol... i'd love to see where you do your 'research'....
I think MOST organized religions denigrate women. Some have had to get a bit more, subtle, about it... I personally would never choose to embed myself in any organized religious group... and see inherent danger in most of them... but i wouldn't try to stop you from attending sunday services...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 24, 2011 21:52:43 GMT -5
Vonnie, all Saudis are not Wahabist, by any means. You really have gotten the wrong idea from the media, who doesn't always know what they're talking about. Terrorists of any stripe are problematic, to say the least; however, all Muslims are not terrorists. In fact, most are not terrorists. Their way of life may be foreign to you, but many like it just the way it is, and that includes the women. Then, there are the women who are pushing for more freedoms. In reality, it's not that much different than it is here. It's just coming from a different place.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 24, 2011 21:53:24 GMT -5
Karma for post 137, oped. I couldn't agree more!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2011 22:02:44 GMT -5
oped-minor complaint-could you put the comments you are quoting within quotation marks please. Tough to figure out which comments are yours and which might be some other posters.
Or use the quote function to reply to a post.
Thanks.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 24, 2011 22:03:17 GMT -5
I think MOST organized religions denigrate women. Some have had to get a bit more, subtle, about it... I personally would never choose to embed myself in any organized religious group... and see inherent danger in most of them... but i wouldn't try to stop you from attending sunday services... [/quote]
which I don't - while I am very Christian - I do have a bit of a problem with most organized religion
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 24, 2011 22:07:14 GMT -5
Vonnie, all Saudis are not Wahabist, by any means. You really have gotten the wrong idea from the media, who doesn't always know what they're talking about. Terrorists of any stripe are problematic, to say the least; however, all Muslims are not terrorists. In fact, most are not terrorists. Their way of life may be foreign to you, but many like it just the way it is, and that includes the women. Then, there are the women who are pushing for more freedoms. In reality, it's not that much different than it is here. It's just coming from a different place. I do know that - and I guess when I say Saudi's - it is more the royal family, the money in saudia arabia I know they spend a lot of money here and in other parts of the world funding schools - that are very often Madrassas, or close to it - they may be our allies, but they are not our friends (and I mean the ruling class, not the common citizens)
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 24, 2011 22:08:12 GMT -5
I wonder if , , if he has his rally, , , he'll include the Boy Scouts in his vision of having the Sharia flag flying over the White House. Or the Girl Scouts.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 24, 2011 22:09:48 GMT -5
[/img] I wonder if , , if he has his rally, , , he'll include the Boy Scouts in his vision of having the Sharia flag flying over the White House [/quote] nah - too Christian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 22:10:24 GMT -5
I'll try to remember Tenn... i hate the quote feature because it quotes everything and i usually don't want to.. but i understand its hars to understand if there is no distinction.... i'll make sure i use quotes....
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 24, 2011 22:11:54 GMT -5
lol... i'd love to see where you do your 'research'.... I'm going to hate myself but I just have to ask - where do you think I do my research?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 24, 2011 22:14:45 GMT -5
... i hate the quote feature because it quotes everything .... You can edit it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 22:21:30 GMT -5
I think you probably rely on mainstream right wing media and blog type sources which support your preconceived notions... I doubt you do much journal reading, or look at international news souces, or at least multiple domestic news sources, i'm guessing you don't do a lot of primary source reading, that most of your research is provided not just by a secondary source, but by a biased secondary source who has filtered or manipulated the information/data to support their thesis...
It can be difficult to find completely unbiased sources, even primary sources are going to be written with the author's bias and context... and we all would rather assimilate than accomdate, but reading only one side, especially the side you want to hear, is always problematic...
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 24, 2011 22:30:59 GMT -5
"............I doubt you do much journal reading, or look at international news souces, or at least multiple domestic news sources, i'm guessing you don't do a lot of primary source reading, that most of your research is provided not just by a secondary source, but by a biased secondary source who has filtered or manipulated the information/data to support their thesis...."
Can I jump in and ask for specific recommended sources, , ,as in multiple, , , , with cited subjects that has been covered recently by any or all of them? Can I go further and ask if the sources are objective and not slanted?
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